Any chance of Sat WX for GPS here in Europe....

[irish seaplane]

Just pondering the great advantage it would be to have Sat Wx (ala the XM offering they have in the states) as we picked our way through not so good wx over the Irish Sea there over the weekend. Is there any sign of something that would work with a Garmin 496 on the horizon?

Other options of a Storm Scope, or a used Wx radar seem maybe too far fetched for a Cessna Single.

Anyone else thoughts on what's out there?


Irish

[IO540]

A system like the U.S. XM satellite one will prob99 never appear in Europe. The IFR private pilot population is far too small, and the upper end of it carries radar anyway.

You can get weather using a bit of a lash-up with a satellite phone. I've done it (email on its way) using a Thuraya one. Thuraya is pretty unreliable though and Avidyne's (http://www.avidyne.com/products/mlx770/index.asp) European weather product unsuprisingly uses the much more expensive U.S. Iridium network, as does the German MT (http://www.moving-terrain.de/) one. These solutions are very expensive to buy and expensive to run, though I gather XM in the USA is not exactly cheap either...

None of this will work with a G496. However, once you get internet access over a satellite phone, you can get any website running on a suitable tablet PC or even a laptop, so the world is your oyster :)

I think Avidyne licenses its data from Meteox (http://www.meteox.com) while MT probably license a feed from the monopolistic cartel of European weather offices called Opera. These two products provide a georeferenced weather radar image, and tafs/metars etc.

I like satellite weather for tafs/metars because, on a long flight, one can make a diversion decision very early, instead of arriving at the destination and then having to proceed to the alternate on minimum fuel. The value of weather radar (which I have used too) is probably more limited unless it is virtually real time and accurately georeferenced.

A stormscope is well worth installing. It's not that reliable, or accurate w.r.t. distance, but if you avoid flying into any clusters of strikes, you should be OK.

[Fuji Abound]

Just to add Avidyne's European equivalent of XM is first rate having seen the system in action and is available at a good avionics shop near you now. I gather Garmin for G1000 users are likely to announce a similiar product shortly.

Flying also reviewed a new form of Stormscope this month which simulates weather radar in a way not previously seen and is of course not reliant on a data link so will work any where. It looks to be a good product.

[IO540]

What is the running cost of the Avidyne product, Fuji?

Iridium charge an eye watering ~ £2/minute for 2400 bits/sec data.

Avidyne probably did an OEM deal with Iridium but the cost of downloading a ~100kbyte radar image is worth examining.

How much is XM? I heard about $30/month. Sat data has the potential to blow away that much on one flight if you go OTT, and that is on Thuraya which is ~ 10% of the cost per byte of Iridium.

[Fuji Abound]

I think Avidyne licenses its data from Meteox (http://www.meteox.com/)


No, WSI - WSI Pilotbrief International- Global Aviation Weather Accessible Anywhere (http://www.wsieurope.com/eu/aviation/pbi.asp#1)


What is the running cost of the Avidyne product, Fuji?



They are citing the cost for a typical user at between £15 and £30 a month, and the kit and installation at less than £10K fitted with the current promotion. It is a fraction of the cost of weather radar and almost, but not quite as good, I guess. For anyone flying serious IFR in all weathers I guess it is a no brainer. Would have been very useful up narth as it turned out yesterday. :} Could you not upgrade your TB20?

[IO540]

The most likely deliver system in Europe will be a satellite phone - Iridium most likely.

I wonder how they worked out

cost for a typical user at between £15 and £30 a month

The reason I mentioned Meteox is because the Avidyne weather radar maps in their sales blurb showed the same coverage limits (basically, nothing south of the Alps) as meteox.com has.

However the place which Meteox gets it from will also sell it to anybody else, and I guess WSI is one of these. Meteox is just time-delayed and funded by adverts.

I doubt this stuff is as good as weather radar, unless the data is absolutely real time. AIUI radar gets used for tactical TS avoidance.

One could fit a satellite phone based system to any plane which has a suitable MFD. I think the vast majority of European GA doesn't have one of these, and the Q is how many will put in a big piece of glass.

[Tinstaafl]

I'm based in the US now and the a/c I fly has all the goodies* for weather avoidance: Garmin 540, Avidyne MFD, XM weather, radar and stormscope. Weather downlink/uplink vs onboard radar provide different capabilities.

Satellite weather compilation is not 'real time'. The information is usually several minutes old. Sometimes as much as 20 mins or more. The composite data give a greater area of coverage than onboard radar. It's best used for more strategic decision making and not for penetrating an area of TS eg should I fly west or east to avoid that line of storms and how far?

In comparison, on-board radar has limited range and view but the information is immediate. It's much better for penetrating an area of weather ie go left or right around this cell then head over there around the next one.

To add to the mix, a lightning detector only detects lightning so no good for non-sparking weather. Beneficial when used with radar to discriminate between TS & 'just' heavy showers.


*It also has a fuel totaliser & JDM engine data monitor so even fuel monitoring & calculations for diversions and/or alternates is much, much easier. Jeez, to think I used to happily fly IFR with just an ADF for radio nav with a max. two hours between fixes and a watch + fuel gauges for endurance :ooh: . Who'd ever want to go back?


much later...
To round out the equipment description, it has a traffic information & alert uplink from participating ATC outlets, stereo inputs into the intercom from both cabin & cockpit, prop syncrophaser and a Panther modification that gives increase MTOW and more HP. It's only a Navajo but I used to fly a Kingair that was steam driven in comparison.

Something I failed to mention about the XM Wx: It includes METARs in the downloaded data so you can even check the weather at airstrips that are out of ATIS range. *Very* useful when the weather is filthy and you need to monitor where is still available.

[Fuji Abound]

There have been some good articles in Flying discussing the merits of these various systems. Yours is a good summary Tinstaafl.

In a recent article the aircraft had the lot - stormscope, weather radar, and composite data. It was interesting to read how close the weather radar and composite pictures were most of the time but equally the composite picture is not designed for slotting yourself into apparent gaps between cells.

It will be interesting to learn how old the data is in Europe and the exact area of cover. The systems also gives you real time TAFs and METARS, and you can even send texts from the aircraft via the Iridium network which is apparently the constellation used.

Interestingly the two main players in satellite communication do seem to be more inclinded to provide more competitve packages than has historically been the case. I keep a close eye on the kit used by long distance yachts. The days of sailors using SSB for internet connectivity are diminishing with some good data packages available at a reasonable price from the sat. providers.

[IO540]

Who are the main sat phone players in the boat business?

For Europe + Mid East, Thuraya works OK and is far cheaper than anybody else. Their GPRS is £5/MB which is half of what Voda UK charge me when roaming :) Some of their Thuraya-Thuraya voice call rates are incredible, ~ 20p/minute.

But their customer service is dreadful - no suprise the "professional" users all seem to be using Iridium who even sell ready to use "aviation" packages.

Globalstar lost a lot of functionality (according to resellers) due to lack of investment, and that leaves Immarsat who do a lot of slick products but are pricey.

I did a lot of research into this last year, and decided Thuraya is the one to play with. But if I was reselling a product/service which I had to support, I would go with Iridium and to hell with what it costs the customer :)

No satcomms deal is truly cheap. For example all of them run the "confiscation of unused prepayment" scam where your entire outstanding PAYG balance is forfeited after X months. Thuraya is the least bad, grabbing your $160 after 12 months.