NDB approach at Islay and Tiree???

[Vulcan607]

Hi,

after recently gaining my IR I would like to fly IFR more regularly now.

Being based in Glasgow Islay and Tiree are within an hours flying. I believe both airfields have NDB approaches available but they are only exclusive to Loganair.

Just curious as to why that is. If someone can ellaborate please do.

Kind Regards

:ok:

[Duchess_Driver]

Guessing, but possibly because the tower is only manned when the Loganair flights arrive?

[IO540]

The UK has loads of these "secret" approaches.

Only a specially CAA approved operator is allowed to fly them.

In many cases, nobody is allowed to fly them anymore but they are still unpublished.

It has been alleged that this is because the operator originally paid for having them designed so it is his intellectual property, and if the details leaked out, his competitors would obtain an unfair commercial advantage.

In general, you can find details of these from the locals. Local instructors often use them to teach the IMC Rating.

In any case, one would fly an NDB approach using an IFR GPS, using the OBS mode, checking the ADF at the TOD for example.

[mad_jock]

Its not just Logan Air that use them.

If you contact the towers at said airports and ask them about it I am sure they will point you towards the person that will be able to approve you using them.

And they arn't your standard approaches they are I think CAT B airports which means that crew have to do a bit more training/ have a brief, before they go for the first time on a commercial flight.

[DB6]

NDB at Islay, VOR at Tiree. Can't remember what's special about Tiree, very straightforward approach, there's a hill somewhere near one of the approaches. Islay is a different matter with a 21 degree offset on Rwy 31, lots of high ground, all the NDB errors present, not for the inexperienced in poor conditions. Not 100% sure of the reason for the restrictions but seem to remember it's to do with 'ownership' i.e. these are HIAL 'owned' approaches rather than CAA, the tower having to be manned does come into it as well. Mad jock is nearly correct about users - it's Loganair not Logan Air :ok: - but others e.g. Air Ambulance use them.

[mad_jock]

Only ever been to Islay and it is a bit different, good fun with a bit of wind up, gets very lumpy and a fairly sharp turn at minimums to land.

If you are in a single you might have limited options if the donk goes as well while flying it. (this is from memory so could be bollocks I am sure DB6 will be better informed)

[NorthSouth]

The reason they're restricted to CAA-approved operators only is because these are FISO-only airfields, not ATC. Article 103(b) of the ANO requires any instrument approach procedure to be flown only when an approach control service is provided. To do it with a FISO in charge requires special CAA authorisation.

NS

[Sir George Cayley]

Discrete Instrument Approach Procedures is the 'fficial name.

My man at the Belgrano tells me they will eventually go but there are some procedural hoops to go through

Good news is that once AFISOs in the frozen north can offer a limited approach service the same just may be possible on the mainland:D

This would mean that some of our favourite Saturday destinations and our home base could possibly, subject to CAA or EASA approval do the same.

Imagine, Sywell to Welshpool and rtn, IMC both ways:) What a treat!

Sir George Cayley

[neilmurg]

it looks like this may be nearer to happening now, see CAP 1122 (draft). It may be time to fit and train on a GTN650...

[27/09]

Article 103(b) of the ANO requires any instrument approach procedure to be flown only when an approach control service is provided

Does that mean there can be no IFR approaches outside of Controlled Airspace or there needs to be some sort of ATC control for the approach procedure?

If that is the case we'd never go IFR to many of our airports over here.

[cessnapete]

Yes, full ATC required by CAA for GPS approach, hence hardly any in UK. With no change in sight from CAA Luddites not much hope of more at small airfields.
Even more crass, latest GPS approaches published ,still require an ancient NDB in the procedure!
There is now no legal requirement for ADF carriage in UK, so that, plus ADF unserviceable renders the approach far less useful.
Especially as in the real world, the ADF would be in the GPS database and not used at all.

[tmmorris]

27/09

Approaches outside CAS are permitted but require ATC not just A/G or FISO. That said, they tolerate a single controller handling approach and tower, and quite a few places do this routinely.

[27/09]

Even more crass, latest GPS approaches published ,still require an ancient NDB in the procedure!
How quaint. That is so last century. In New Zealand we have GPS approaches at airfields where there are no ground based aids.

Approaches outside CAS are permitted but require ATC not just A/G or FISO. That said, they tolerate a single controller handling approach and tower, and quite a few places do this routinely.
Is that all approaches or just GPS approaches.

About 60% of the instrument approaches here are located outside Controlled Airspace with no ATC control what so ever.