Cockpit Video Camera

[OZZI_PPL]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for suggestions on a Video Camera to use for inflight cockpit recording. The features I'm looking for are:


Wide Angle lens
HD would be great
Small & Light


My intention is to mount if in the cockpit and get some great aerobatic footage. I have experimented in the past with bullet cameras but the quality is quite disappointing.

There are some great vids on the net, but no-one mentions the camera or gear used.

Surely someone has done the above, and could offer me some suggestions of what to get.

Cheers, Ozzi

[vanHorck]

It is quite affordable now to use high definition camcorders which give a much better picture.

I use a JVC Everio HD7 but it is a hard disk recorder, so not to be advised for aerobatics.

There are now camcorders (HD) available which record on memory sticks (RAM memory) and so have no moving parts. A lot will depend on your budget.... I would suggest you either use 720p or 1080p settings (progressive) as opposed to 1080i (interlaced) which might give jagged edges during fast moves. Another question is the bit rate. All digital recordings are compressed in some way, especially visible during fast movements. The higher the bit rate the cam can record the more detail you will have (the less compression). Again this becomes visible during motion. On a still picture no compression is needed so everything is sharp, but as soon as the camera or the object moves compression comes into play. Finally 50 frames per second gives better pics than 25 frames per second but unfortunately a 1080p camcorder with 50 frames and high bitrate is totally unaffordable.... So everything is a compromise....

On wide angle lenses there is a lot of quality difference. I suggest you start with the wide angle convertor of the brand you use (I at least know JVC makes them for their cams).

You will have an issue with light during rotations and the automatic aperture will not change quick enough during spins etc, so fixed will be better but it s a matter of experimenting.

No idea on safe mounts for the camcorder though, and i would think this is going to be essential, you don't want bits flying during a spin.....

[Zulu Alpha]

Hard discs can have problems as the heads float on a small cushion of air and at higher altitudes this doesn't work. They are also very sensitive to bumps.

Solid state with memory cards is best.

You can get very acceptable results by using one of the still cameras that has a video recording mode.

Alternatively, look at Helmet camera bullet cameras from dogcamsport (http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk) for a range of products.The HQR2 is very good but around £600. They do also have cheaper units.

This video is taken with their gear
YouTube - Extra 330SC WAC 2009 training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjUdqhQdp4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ewac2009%2Ecom%2Fvideo%2Fvideos%2Ehtm l&feature=player_embedded)

YouTube - Silverstone National Aerobatics 2008 freestyle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WAbTZew7Fc&feature=related)

Its difficult to judge the quality via YouTube, but we viewed the original on a 42 inch flat screen and it was very good.

ZA

[OZZI_PPL]

Thanks for your replies.

I already have a heavy duty suction mount that is more than up to the challenge, along with a safety strap of course.

HD Camcorder is a good option as I could obviously use it for non flying tasks.

I have also considered the Flip Mino HD and alternative brands. The price is quite good, size is great and the sample vids I can find seem pretty decent.

[Maoraigh1]

I've had some weird effects with a Canon HG10 (hard disc). First problem was damping vibration, so it didn't shut down. Then if image stabilisation and and autofocus are on, ( and this is what it reverts to after a shut down) it may jump to sickening effect after light turbulence. The world as seen by a happy dog, whose eyes were on its tail.
I suspect it is stabilising on the prop. (A blade passes about 20 times per second.) I'm still modifying its mount.
I've got poorer, but more consistant results with a Fuji Finepix on movie mode. Samples of the videos are on the www.laahighlandstrut.org (http://www.laahighlandstrut.org) site.
The mount is a piece of floor vinyl folded over the centre tube between the clamshell doors, with the metal camera bracket slung below. (And the metal part is easily detached in case of an emergency, to avoid risk of head strike.)

[Mark1234]

Bit of a techie post, however, you may also want to consider the sensor type:

Most / many camcorders are a CMOS sensor. For this sort of application, a CCD sensor is 'better'. Each has pros and cons, but due to some esoteric features of the way the chip technology works, CMOS chips use a rolling shutter, whereas CCDs use a global shutter.

Golbal shutter is what you might expect - the entire chip is captured at once, every pixel comes from the same instant in time. With a rolling shutter, the chip is scanned a row at a time - One end of the image will be significant fractions of a second older than the other.

What that means is that when there's motion, such as vibration, or rapidly passing prop blades, you get artefacts in the image: The venitian blind effect where the prop should be, motion skew, or in extreme cases a sine-wave effect where the whole image is wobbling like jelly. A google search for rolling shutter should throw up some examples.

[jaycee46]

There is a guy in the US called Brady Lane, doing a video blog of his PPL, and he has a section called 'recording in flight video' on how the tech side of the filming is done, which is well worth a look - in fact the whole thing is pretty cool!

Earning My Wings: a video blog about learning to fly (http://www.eaa.org/apps/blog/learntofly/)

[IO540]

I have the £150 Sony HQ1 from Dogcamsport. I have done in-flight filming with it, looking forward through the windscreen, but the quality is IMHO very disappointing.

The video is just about OK if reduced from PAL (756x525 or thereabouts, in reality) to 320x240 but there is still a lot of geometric distortion which is not related to the windscreen - which I suppose could be post-corrected with an upmarket video editor.

Another problem with the HQ1 is that it uses the speed of its electronic "shutter" to control the exposure, and in normal bright daylight the shutter speed is very fast - of the order of 1/5000. This produces really weird effects with the prop, making it look like a 6-blade and going backwards and all over the place. This issue may be solved by putting a neutral filter on the front (forcing the shutter to be much slower) but I did not try that.

Connecting my HD cam's composite output into the video-USB converter yields a high quality video so the problem is not downstream of the HQ1.

I have also tried the best webcam products money can buy and they are no better than the HQ1. Their only advantage was that they have a direct USB2 interface so no video-USB converter (£50 on Ebay) is required.

The advantage of cameras like the HQ1 is that they are waterproof and have a small frontal cross-section so can be mounted outside the aircraft, but the OP's application does not seem to require that and anyway doing that is legally dodgy :)

I did look at a better quality bullet camera and found a £750 Sony one (plus the cost of removable lenses, so over £1000) which I guess is what a pro would use, but could not find anybody selling it. They must exist...

Personally, I'd buy a cheap HD camcorder; they go for about £300 now and the quality is way way way better than these bullet cameras.

The possible downside of a camcorder is if you need to do a movie exceeding its media capacity. It then stops recording... If you can find a camcorder which can be used as a webcam (i.e. outputs video continuously but without recording to its storage device) with the output going to a laptop with a decent hard drive, that would solve that, but AFAIK few camcorders can work that way. Maybe the "showroom demo mode" might do it?

Hard drives tend to crash around FL130, IME.

[OZZI_PPL]

Thanks for the info guys. I am probably going to look at a lower end HD flash camcorder. They seem to be the best option. I actually found a video I recorded on a bullet camera:

YouTube - Victa Airtourer - Bullet Camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiWxKR9Z-UA)

You can see the quality is quite lacking. It is a middle of the range bullet camera plugged into a Mini DV recorder.

In contrast, I found this video, recorded on a Flip Mino HD:

YouTube - Flight in Alan's Pitts S-2A - White Waltham - 18 Apr 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQmJoTP2lw) (use HD for best viewing)

With a wider angle lens, I would be very impressed with this option.

Ozzi

[Molesworth 1]

Amazing view of helmets and headsets!:bored:

[421C]

I have a Sony memory stick camcorder, the TG3E. The picture quality in flight is pretty impressive, and no problems with odd flickers from props or instruments. However, it doesn't have a socket for an external mic.

I saw a great in-flight instructional video where a little external mike had been popped inside one of the pilot's headset earcups. It worked great, because both ATC and his speech over the intercom were captured.

I'd definitely use a camcorder with that external mic. feature. It's inevitable that you buy dozens of gagdets over the years with features you never use and then when you want a specific feature.....

[Mark1234]

The pitts video demonstrates exactly what I mean about the CMOS sensor / rolling shutter combo - look at what the prop's doing. Not as severe issue in that case, as the forward view is very limited, but if it isn't, all you see out the front is prop 'bars'.

[OZZI_PPL]

I finally settled on a compromise and purchased a still / video hybrid, the Panasonic TZ7 / ZS3. Takes excellent still photos and the HD video is quite impressive for it's size.

It's light like I wanted, has a wide angle lens and I can also use it for photography.

I took it for a fly this morning and have uploaded the video in HD here:

YouTube - Victa Airtourer - Aerobatics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT484qDTJ34)

Obviously I need to find a better mount to minimise the vibration. Other than that I'm very happy with the outcome :) ..... except maybe for a couple of the the off-axis loops.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers

Ozzi

[Runaway Gun]

Comments? Yeah, a bit more right rudder over the top.... :)
Picture looks pretty good. Let us know about your eventual choice of mount.