Gaining PPL & flying family on/off Channel islands

[aceparts]

We're a family of four currently living in Alderney (Channel Islands) and regularly (6 times a year) fly off with blueislands/aurigny and then hire a car in the UK to meet faimily etc at a cost of about £1500 per trip, so £9K a year.

I've had some flying lessons but work got in the way. I'm pondering the viability, economics and in particlar safety from gaining my ppl, sharing or buying a plane and flying us direct to family in Rochester, Kent, thus avoiding all the hire cars etc.

My main concern is that in Alderney you take off/land over water so if anything goes wrong that's where i'll be found. Also the issue of flying the family possibly straight over water in a single engine plane.
I'm also concerned (due to the frequently changing weather) if we would ever get off the island in the first place! Would a PPL be enough?

I know that when I passed my driving test I probably gained 200 hours in the first month - this could take years in a plane yet a 1 month driver is still very inexperienced.

Thoughts appreciated!
Alan

[tin canary]

Well, you won't be going to the mainland with blue islands anymore, so i would suggest you book early with aurigny. I have just looked and you can see fares in August from £55 out and £38 back which is a small price to pay for having 3 engines. Personally, i wouldn't risk 1 engine with the family on board, but thats up to you.

Also, if the wx turns a bit poor then you will spend more money in hotel bills while you wait for the wx to improve which you will know can take some time.

I did think about doing what you suggest myself, but for me its a no-brainer!

[aceparts]

I've just spent an hour reading other posts - aurigny it is. Totally agree with the weather statement; it's 50/50 when flying with an airline in the channel islands!

[tin canary]

Or you could stop 2 nights at Mr Coates' :8 and get a free flight?

[cptcollins]

Hello,

I've flown to all the Channel Islands several times GA, albeit in a DA42 but have also done channel crossings in a single engine plane. The first trip is always the most daunting but I wouldn't think twice about doing it now, just be prepared. Stow a raft, wear life vests, carry beacons and handheld radios for peace of mind in case of that bad day (this is a chilling way of making you think seriously about safety; pic303.htm (http://www.equipped.com/pp/pic303.htm)). Weather is a big issue and it's bound to cave in on you that day you decide to take a chance. I PERSONALLY wouldn't want to go to the Channel Islands without a valid IR. Being able to fly the NDB procedure at Alderney really makes the difference and gives peace of mind. Last time I checked there was no IFR procedure at Rochester so you even on an IFR flight you could be faced with a diversion before you've even reached the mainland, adding a hire car to the cost.

The trip to and from Channel Islands isn't a difficult one but you will only gain the confidence you wish to have gradually over time. Maybe time to way up the costs of it all again!

Good luck!

[IO540]

If you are a plain PPL i.e. VFR only, and stick to legal VFR (advisable if you cannot actually fly on instruments :) ) then, in the southern UK, you will probably cancel of the order of 50-75% of long-time-preplanned flights.

Obviously the % varies according to the time of the year, but not as much as one would think.

Most of the cancelled flights can however be done the following day (due to the generally moving mature of our weather here).

The "propeller airlines" which fly to the CI manage a good despatch rate by scud running below the cloud, even at 500ft, all the way to Southampton or whatever. Their pilots are very good and very current but if a private pilot was doing that he would be castigated as a cowboy :)

For a dozen trips a year, I don't think the engine failure rate is statistically relevant.

The wider picture would be the problem: how many hours is the pilot (and the plane) going to be doing? You cannot just have a piston plane sitting for a few months in the salt spray (or even in a hangar), jump in, start it up, and fly off. Flying is a significantly time consuming hobby which cannot be safely done on an ad hoc basis.

6 flights a year is absolutely nothing, zilch, zero currency. It would be better to come to an "arrangement" with a local pilot who is good, current, and flies something decent and better maintained than the usual.

[Fuji Abound]

To add to IO's comments dont do it to save money. You mention an annual cost of £9K commercially. Well by the time you have taken into account depreciation, maintenance, running costs and your personal licensing costs you will be significantly out of pocket. I'd guess for a half decent single at least double that sum.

If you could share with a few others on the island you might get close, but I guess the group market on Alderney is small.

How is Alderney to live?

PS In case you are thinking long term and cost is not an issue, I guess you could get up to speed within a year including an IR if you really put your mind to it. Even then Rochester and Alderney will be weather limited as neither has an instrument approach. Also, as the family grow the problem with most singles is that they really dont no four adults with a few exceptions. A twin would of course be the answer and with something deiced you could get to the stage of having to call off few trips, but that would be a long haul in terms of getting yourself up to speed and maintaining currency.

[welkyboy]

As a retired Aurigny pilot, I can asssure you that we never "scud run" on flights from Alderney to the mainland, there have been too many CFIT accidents on the Isle of wight to risk that. Always FL50 ORTAC R41 SAM n'bound and FL40 southbound with NDB approach into Alderney if required. Inter Island flights are normally conducted SVFR -1000ft n'bound (wx permitting 3000m and cloud base 600ft+) and IFR 2000ft s'bound

[Johnm]

We have a house in Little St and come to and fro in a single engine 4 seater more or less all year round. I have an IMC Rating and that's essential for safety but it's still more restrictive than a full IR because of the Jersey zone being class A airspace.

The only things that stop me in practical terms is icing conditions or fog or very strong winds.

However it is definitely not an economic proposition on the numbers you give. Learn to fly and buy an aeroplane by all means but do it for the pleasure and convenience.

Take my trip for example:

If I go Aurigny it's 2 hours to Soton, minimum an hour's checkin plus long term car park and security aggravation and then 45mins in the air.

If I fly myself, it's do the paperwork the previous day, drive 20 mins to the airfield and park then load and check the aeroplane say ten or fifteen mins and then an hour in the air.

[cptcollins]

Fuji Abound, Alderney indeed does have an instrument approach. NDB (non DME) for both runways.

SC

[aceparts]

That sounds very interesting John. I do really enjoy flying and would certainly do more than 6 trips a year; it's the inconvenience that i'm trying to improve while keeping it very safe. How viable that would be for a low hours pilot over water in a single is what i'm unsure of. Not very by the sounds of it!

[IO540]

Water is not the issue; the engine doesn't know it is over water :) It also doesn't know the pilot is a low hour one :) Unless he mismanages it of course.

welkyboy - must have been one of your competitors that I saw, quite a few times :) The problem is that being unpressurised they cannot climb to FL250 etc, and they cannot sit in TCU/CB enroute. I think the top they can go, with paying passengers, no oxygen, is about FL100.

Learning to fly is a wonderful thing and I would not for a moment want to discourage somebody, but getting good and safe and able to really go places is a much longer process than just getting the PPL.

[Fuji Abound]

cptcollins (http://www.pprune.org/members/84734-cptcollins)

Yes, thank you I had not realised. Not one I have ever used.

[cptcollins]

Hehe - it's not tooooo bad actually! 650ish ft amsl I seem to recall. MSA in the area is only 1900ft. The lack of DME makes life interesting too. I like your thinking though; scud it until you see some rocks!

[Johnm]

[QUOTE]That sounds very interesting John. I do really enjoy flying and would certainly do more than 6 trips a year; it's the inconvenience that i'm trying to improve while keeping it very safe. How viable that would be for a low hours pilot over water in a single is what i'm unsure of. Not very by the sounds of it![/QUOTEy

I'll give you a clue:

My first flight to Alderney (with my wife) was memorable. It was in a C172 from White Waltham and I had 18 hours logged as P1. I'd also done a very small amount of instrument training towards my IMCR so that I could survive loss of horizon and navigate on VOR. As I was about to be handed over to Alderney tower with 5 miles or so to run Guernsey called up and announced that Alderney was closed due fuel spillage and what were my intentions. Divert to Guernsey seemed sensible and so we did. We then flew Guernsey Alderney when it reopened and then flew home again!

All of this I had been trained to deal with and did do.

Over water you need to take life jackets and raft (maybe wear blobby suits in winter) and carry PLB and handheld radio in grab bag as a precaution.

The main hazard is on grey days when you can't tell the difference between sea and sky, but seeing ships in the sky is known to be a bad thing:uhoh: So Instrument skills (IMCR) are a must as far as I'm concerned.

I've flown to Cherbourg, Deauville, Caen, Dinard, Alderney, Guernsey, Waterford and Dublin direct from UK, some of those several times.