GMA update

[treboryelk]

it gets better......COS 08 improvements will only be granted if the flight crew acceptance of SLS is good enough. makes me feel happier about cos 99 now!

[No-Wai]

Un - f:mad:king believable.

These people are CRIMINALLY INSANE

[Night Watch]

This is Bull****....

The company NEVER said that it was conditional on X amount of people signing up for SLS, only that the HKAOA endorses SLS.

[Nullaman]

The words OWN GOAL spring to mind

[quadspeed]

Unfu****believable.

Are they smoking crack up there? Do they -seriously- expect anyone to sign over to a CoS which may or may not include those improvements that would cause you to sign across in the first place?

Do we, as a group, really come across to management as this stupid?

[treboryelk]

still makes me wonder whether there is some loop-hole in the BPP on COS 99 that escapes us. ie keep the less senior guys on 09, expecting BPP....and then remove lube, insert baseball bat!

[Flap10]

Love the bit about "we as pilots"....You wan:mad:er you betrayed us pilots the day you accepted a management position.

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

GMA Update 15MAY09

With only a few days to go before the close of the SLS/COS 08 election I am pleased to hear that the HKAOA membership has successfully ratified the improvements to COS 08. The improvements have been discussed at length in both company and HKAOA communications. The agreed changes to COS 08 are attached (https://iconnect.cathaypacific.com/f5-w-H687474703a2f2f696e74726163782e636174686179706163696669632e6 36f6d$$/ix/fop/team/news/gmtupdates/CoS08%20Improvements.pdf) for perusal and are fully expected to form part of COS 08. I use the word expected only because the improvements have always been subject to the HKAOA’s success in promoting widespread support for SLS within their membership. Over the past few weeks the company and HKAOA representatives have enjoyed a progressively better understanding and a more positive working relationship, nevertheless the fact remains that when the DFO first agreed to enter into negotiations on the broad principles established more than a month ago, it was on the strict understanding that the HKAOA would promote widespread support for the corporate scheme. With current sign up levels significantly behind those of other employee groups, that goal is yet to be achieved. I remain hopeful that it will be achieved in the remaining days. As a reminder, the deadline for the SLS election is 18th May at 12:00 midday.

I wish to reiterate that those who have already elected for SLS and COS 08 will receive exactly what has been promulgated through the election process. There will be no grab back of contracts or advertised retained benefits. The ratified improvements to COS 08 will however, as has been made abundantly clear in previous communications, only be fully implemented if the support of the HKAOA membership is forthcoming. I understand why there may be some angst about electing for a contract with improvements that may not be fully implemented. Equally there is some angst on the Company’s part, regarding the delivery of a level of support which, for the moment, appears at best elusive. With other staff groups posting SLS acceptance rates of almost 100%, I certainly hope that we, as pilots, can show that we are prepared to strongly support our Company through these difficulties. It would be wrong to leave that role to others to perform on our behalf.

Captain Richard Hall
General Manager Aircrew


Well done AOA!! Another "brilliant" sell-out by the HKAOA GC to screw its members, but please cx management..:yuk:

What a :mad: circus!!!

[icanfly2]

okay so heres what we do let the 18th come and go nobody click anything, then we shall watch as the revolt starts to bit them in the arse.

So at a time like this when the need planes to be flying lets see how they fair when there is no crew lets take our own leave without pay in the form of a strike.

F#$K IT!

[Frogman1484]

It is obvious they do not intend to implement any of the improvements to COS 08. The control the numbers and they could easily say that they wanted 100% and that 99% was not goo enough.

The vote is now clear more than before NO & NO :ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Loopdeloop]

This seems like a very strange update. Is he really trying to achieve higher numbers of SLS uptake or would he prefer us not to take it so he doesn't make the improvements to CoS 08? My plan was to wait until the 18th then plump for CoS 99 and give them SLS but I tend to react badly to threats and intimidation, so I'll think on it for a couple more days.
Here in Europe I don't think it's legal to act in this way with regards to employment contracts... this merits further investigation!

[2 cents]

I was sitting on the fence about SLS, but that just made my decision easy. No thanks. :ugh:

[jonathon68]

It is obvious that there is going to be a poor result for Management on the 18th. My guess is a 45-50% sign-up.

The GMA's message has 2 purposes.

1. To scare a handful of the "fence-sitters" into clicking an option.

2. To commence the Management "spin" on who is to blame for their b@lls-up. I thought they were just going to blame us selfish-overpaid pilots, but it seems the finger will be pointed at the HKAOA again "for failing to promote widespread support for SLS within the membership".

The next stage will be to demand that the HKAOA demonstrate "good faith" before they will talk about anything again. Seen this before... yawn.

Nothing to do with Management trying to pull a fast one by linking a lousy deal with SLS then?? :yuk:

[treboryelk]

what i love about this is that they fail to see that the aircrew body as a whole were most likely to put their bids in at about 1155 on monday.

i wanted to see the vote for improvements, the inclusion in COS 08 and then i would have done as before...compare the two and see what works.
all they have done now is swing my cos 08/cos 99 meter as far into the cos99 camp as it gets.....and generate a big SLS F*** you......as i was probably going to take it.

this is such a shambles of huge proportions. i am not an AOA member.....but give the guys a break; there are some working there balls of to try and get this right. you cannot lose sight of the fact that when it comes to employer/employee relations....the employer will always dictate the end game.

there are some trying to make this work that are making a big sacrifice in time and in their personal life to at least try and make this work.

(and don't give me the old crap that they should have my support through AOA membership......we all have our reasons for being in our out, or once in and then out)

[crewsunite]

If you joined then maybe the AoA would have more funds for.
Court cases, employing professional neg some competition for JF.

Other News:

Please note: CrewDirect will be unavailable on 17 May (Sun) 09:30-10:30 and 14:30-15:30 HK LT. Please do not attempt to submit any training report during that period.

Funny that was just when I plan on loging on. I'll give up and sent a letter instead.
No & No !

I need advice:

I walked into a bar with my boss. He buys me a drink while he chats about him needing my support for this huge lie he is about to pull to all third parties. He said if I play the game with him there will be something in it for me.

Being a team member & putting my trust in him I agree & buy the next round for further details: :8
He then tells me I have to sign a new & lessor contract because of the lie above. If I don't I'll won't get a pay rise ever again etc..
I'm confused is this guy on drugs or plain mad! :mad:

How should I react to this? Any suggestions:

Maybe I should make public all the lies this guy as pulled all his life. Hopefully this will result in getting his butt kicked & hopefully have him replaced with someone with integrity!
:}

To all the others that get the same treatment and had their goal posts moved yet again & again & again. (is'nt there a song like that)

Who keeps moving the cheese?

[Liam Gallagher]

As someone who logged on today to click Yes and Yes (personal reasons:rolleyes:), I thought I would check the GMA missive to see if I could find a reason to click No and No.

And there was the gift I was seeking. In all the stuff I had read on SLS/COS08 I had failed to spot the improvements were conditional on some fertive and undefined criteria regarding SLS uptake.

I am so glad there is no intimidation involved in the SLS decision-making process.

Ready-fire-aim.

[Frogman1484]

I bet the reason the update came out is that a fire has been lit underneath them. Tony has probably asked them why the pilots are not signing or they have been told that if the SLS fails they will be held accountable...let see who blinks first

[Sqwak7700]

The reason there is no response from the AOA is that the music is coming to a stop and they have been left without a chair.

They jumped on board recommending this SLS and COS08 bull-****t, and now the rules have been changed halfway through... again. They should have listened to their membership and stuck to their principles.

The AOA's next move will be the make-or-break type. Many people, myself included, are planning on leaving the AOA based on their recent gut-less display, and this is their chance to change that or make it even worse.

After the surrender we've seen on SLS and COS08, my money is on them bending over even more.

I really hope that I am wrong. :hmm:

[CMOTDibler]

Just went to show someone the GMA update on CX and its been edited to the first paragraph only!
There's a new one from NR in a much more please trust us tone but its the band aid over the cleaver wound after RH's tirade.

Thank goodness the complete version was posted before it was pulled otherwise we wouldn't quite be sure as to the managements thinking. Wonder how the phone call to RH went when they saw the secret plan had been leaked.

Still awaiting that offer of voluntary redundency but apparently that would cost them money rather than getting it from you.

[Pathos]

The hardest thing about going to work next week will be saying nothing to the pathetic loser who took SLS. It's incredible who Cathay employ; even they are amazed.

[flyingkiwi]

unbelievable.. I cannot believe these managers

[Blutack]

Well we have ALL seen it now in BLACK and WHITE now exactly what they are thinking and their possible intentions, so take it as a warning........so no winging or complaining from those crew members that select CoS08 and/or SLS after Monday.

If you choose to go with either CoS08 or SLS don't expect any sympathy if it doesn't quite turn out the way you would have hoped!:cool:

[Night Watch]

Just in case some didn't see the difference between the first and the second GMA update...

This is the original..... Bull****


GMA Update 15MAY09

With only a few days to go before the close of the SLS/COS 08 election I am pleased to hear that the HKAOA membership has successfully ratified the improvements to COS 08. The improvements have been discussed at length in both company and HKAOA communications. The agreed changes to COS 08 are attached for perusal and are fully expected to form part of COS 08. I use the word expected only because the improvements have always been subject to the HKAOA’s success in promoting widespread support for SLS within their membership. Over the past few weeks the company and HKAOA representatives have enjoyed a progressively better understanding and a more positive working relationship, nevertheless the fact remains that when the DFO first agreed to enter into negotiations on the broad principles established more than a month ago, it was on the strict understanding that the HKAOA would promote widespread support for the corporate scheme. With current sign up levels significantly behind those of other employee groups, that goal is yet to be achieved. I remain hopeful that it will be achieved in the remaining days. As a reminder, the deadline for the SLS election is 18th May at 12:00 midday. I wish to reiterate that those who have already elected for SLS and COS 08 will receive exactly what has been promulgated through the election process. There will be no grab back of contracts or advertised retained benefits. The ratified improvements to COS 08 will however, as has been made abundantly clear in previous communications, only be fully implemented if the support of the HKAOA membership is forthcoming. I understand why there may be some angst about electing for a contract with improvements that may not be fully implemented. Equally there is some angst on the Company’s part, regarding the delivery of a level of support which, for the moment, appears at best elusive. With other staff groups posting SLS acceptance rates of almost 100%, I certainly hope that we, as pilots, can show that we are prepared to strongly support our Company through these difficulties. It would be wrong to leave that role to others
to perform on our behalf.

Captain Richard Hall

General Manager Aircrew


This is all that is available on IntraCX now.... Richard you now look like the dick-head you are!


GMA Update 15MAY09

With only a few days to go before the close of the SLS/COS 08 election I am pleased to hear that the HKAOA membership has successfully ratified the improvements to COS 08. The improvements have been discussed at length in both company and HKAOA communications. The agreed changes to COS 08 are attached for perusal.

[WeakForce]

I think the company just blinked. They must be feeling the pressure.Blink maybe but 30% of the dumbassed pilots fell for it.

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

No word from the AOA on this yet? I thought they would have written something about it by now?


Off course not..they are busy running for cover!!:D

See, the way to deal with schoolboy bullies is NOT a pussy-foot approach or to try and win their approval by doing favours.:=

You have to take them on with everything that you have, and this should be the AOA's stance as far as dealing with this criminal management is concerned..

Unfortunately the AOA has failed miserably..YET again..:eek:

[fire wall]

Esse, who do you think got the change made to the GMA's notice ?
You really are a dim wit.

[zygot44]

Yeah Esse. You're a dim wit. The AOA is dictating what the GMA writes these days. :\

[Frogman1484]

I like the DFO's statement , that we will be heavily overmanned if we do not sign up for the SLS, maybe he has not noticed that I'm on overtime again this month and that most Captains I talk to are as well. Maybe he has not noticed that quite a few of us are still trying to get our annual Leave entitlement. Nick stop bull****ting us you sound desperate!!!:ugh:

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

Oh yeah right...

And the AOA was actually responsible for sending man to the moon too..

[zygot44]

Signed up to have a say. Do you have a problem with that Mr GC you've :mad:ed us over Shagman?

[quadspeed]

Without doubt, the following quote from the GMA update is what must have got the whole thing pulled:

I understand why there may be some angst about electing for a contract with improvements that may not be fully implemented

Angst? ELECTING FOR A CONTRACT WITH IMPROVEMENTS THAT MAY NOT BE FULLY IMPLEMEPTED is not angst. It's stupidity. Angst?

At least he put it in writing. What a ******* circus.

[Sqwak7700]

It wasn't a blink, they just showed us their cards. Big mistake when you are playing a card game, now we know they are bluffing.

I doubt the AOA has any influence in their management updates. If they did, wouldn't they be a lot more concise and wouldn't they speak to the membership?? Nice try...:hmm:

Overstaffed my ass. Is that why we are still extending Captains and we are asking our most expensive senior pilots to stay on longer? If we were going into an overstaffed condition, wouldn't it be the wrong time to sort out age 65??

Most people will be voting no on SLS, but we need to get the Captains to shoot down COS08 as well. You guys need to band together and demand current conditions to 65, now is the time. They are begging you to sign COS08 so they can get you cheaper to 65, you guys need to hold out and collectively agree to resist. You have 3 days left to organize and collectively fight, don't waste the opportunity. :ok:

[crewsunite]

All I say is stop bending, lets not lower ourselves to their level.
Lets remain as professionals and stand up to just principles!

GC you have tried, though it is now apparent a change of course is required.

Lets vote, poll, meet & discuss all the relevant things that lie ahead.

Lets also get a few courts cases going..

Buy the way if all 100% rather than the 50% had taken SLS. They'll bring in the next hurdle against us like asking us to drop all courts cases etc..

Don't u get it! They keep moving the cheese. Lets stop chasing it, you'll die of cancer from the stress.

Just stand up & say No No No NOOOO!

This is our opportunity to make a statement.
Of course we all see the logic of SLS and would want to endorse it.
But come on when will we ever tell them to stop!

Guys please a beg you keep a clear mind & take a stand say NO!
Lets not lose this opportunity.

[zygot44]

Overstaffed my ass. Is that why we are still extending Captains and we are asking our most expensive senior pilots to stay on longer? If we were going into an overstaffed condition, wouldn't it be the wrong time to sort out age 65??

Most people will be voting no on SLS, but we need to get the Captains to shoot down COS08 as well. You guys need to band together and demand current conditions to 65, now is the time. They are begging you to sign COS08 so they can get you cheaper to 65, you guys need to hold out and collectively agree to resist. You have 3 days left to organize and collectively fight, don't waste the opportunity. http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
You are right on.

[crewsunite]

Word is now out & we'll all get email tomorrow.
The GC are pissed off & will now recommend No Votes!

[SFGDOG]

The talk from the third floor is that the whole COS08/SLS for the aircrew has been a complete fiasco (news flash) and NR and RH are really sweating as they will not even get close to their targets unlike all the other departments. TT is not happy at all. Apparently it is a huge embarrassment and heads may roll as a consequence.:D

It will of course be done the typical Swire way, a few months from now there will be a reshuffle for other reasons and certain people will move on to some other position in Swire. Perhaps bottling plant supervisor in Somalia. The real question then is, is it better the devil you know?

Time for a change at the top of flights ops I think so bring it on.:ok:

For the first time in my career we have them over a barrel and all we have to do is nothing. Now that is karma.

[crewsunite]

Perfect it is good to hear that! I do know that TT & NR were having heated argument two weeks ago about this. (came from good source)

Now it maybe alot worse. Notice in TT weekly no news about the pilots SLS etc.
He does not want to be part of that anymore.

No wonder NR wants to dash off next wk.

Anyone close to the stove with more stories..

[Red Hot Poker]

If R.H. the puppet did not know he was being used, he should know it by now, that he will be the fall guy.
What a shameful update, but thanks for letting us know how the company really intends to treat the staff.
That was one of the most threatening and intimidating letters to staff that I have read. I sure felt inspired by his letter, now I am really pissed.
A@@!

[oriental flyer]

walking through the crew mail box room yesterday It was interesting to note that there are a large number of DHL type envelopes in the crew mail boxes.
Any ideas?

[zygot44]

Hopefully they've installed a large bin in the mailbox area.

[Fly747]

They made a big mistake in linking contractual issues with SLS and trying to be too clever by half. The 96% sign up for SLS by the KA pilots who were just asked a simple question has left them with major egg on face. Nice to watch them squirm isn't it?

[zygot44]

Staggering that the KA boys fell over each other to be suckered in. Extraordinary that they've given management a green light to come back for more of their conditions. Welcome to the CX world gents.