What's the latest with AeroLogic (German 777F Operator)?

[Iver]

I noted that their first 777F has arrived. So, what's the deal? Have they hired people yet beyond those flying the first aircraft? I remember when their initial interviews were held and the requirements were Space Shuttle time and better... I guess German pilots at EK and QR who have 777 experience would have a pretty good shot at getting a job there.

I realise the economy is terrible and the freight market is therefore not doing well. I presume they will attempt to grow far slower as a result (especially with LH Cargo airplanes grounded).

Just looking for a hiring update if anyone has one. How many 777Fs do they have on order total? Here's the latest picture of their first 777F:

Photos: Boeing 777-2ZN(FLR) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/AeroLogic/Boeing-777-2ZN(FLR)/1524886/M/)

[Ryan_EMA]

Im going for interview on the 26th of May.
Will keep you posted what it's like down in LEJ

[gb777]

Thanks Ryan EMA.
Looking forward to your report.
gb777

[SMT Member]

8 firm and 3 options on order. Next aircraft due in June/July, currently no plans to defer or cancel orders. Almost 60 crewmembers currently on the payroll, with a more to come. Initial flights to be operated by augmented crew, allowing for hotac at final destination only.

Amongst its shareholders, AeroLogic is sometimes jokingly referred to as "LTU Cargo", owing to the large number of crew members from that airline, including the CP. As if they haven't already had a poor experience with former charter pilots making the switch to fly cargo. Anyway, whilst a B777 TR is not a necessity, being fluent in German is an absolute must if you wish to join.

[FCS Explorer]

As if we haven't already had a poor experience with former charter pilots making the switch to fly cargo.

oh? care to explain?

[SMT Member]

Sure, "Britannia Cargo"

[Iver]

Thank you SMT Member for your details. I am curious as to why so many LTU pilots would be chosen if most don't have 777 experience. Is it because the CP is from LTU and he has a bias/preference for his former colleagues? Is it because many long-haul LTU pilots might want to leave Air Berlin situation? What factors are influencing the hiring of so many LTU pilots? Just curious. I say good for them if they are not happy with their current situation.

Still, it sounds like a very interesting opportunity to fly a very nice aeroplane worldwide. I would hope the pay package would reflect the need for experienced pilots but I am skeptical in this economy with many experienced pilots looking for work.

I noticed on the website that FO minimums are not too high - something like 1,000 total hours. Do you think they will hire FOs with this experience level in the near future or are all newhires relatively high-time and experienced? Any word about potential other pilot domiciles in the future?

[Ryan_EMA]

Hey Guys
Been to LEJ last week.
I have to say that airport is very nice and so is the city of Leipzig.
Very lively and nice place to be...
Aerologic has got its HQ located near DHL Hub.
I've met with Director of HR and FlightOps Manager for my interview.
I have to admit that I had very positive impression. Very nice people and it seems like a nice place to work.
I was told I will get the answer within 2 weeks about the position.

[MatsL]

ryan ema: just curious, what previous experience do you have?

[Flying_Frisbee]

They're up and running on 19th June. Good luck to them. :ok:
http://www.aircargoworld.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/news/aerologic-launch-supports-saxony/93727-1-eng-GB/AeroLogic-Launch-Supports-Saxony_large.jpg

AeroLogic, the DHL Express - Lufthansa Cargo joint venture airline, officially started operations today, with the first commercial flight scheduled for June 29th.

With the delivery of its first Boeing 777F aircraft and the receipt of its Air Operator Certificate (AOC) from the German Aviation Authority (LBA), AeroLogic will serve new air routes between Europe and Asia, transporting cargo for its parent companies' customers


AeroLogic takes off with low-emission aircraft | Eye For Transport | News, Analysis & Events (http://www.eyefortransport.com/content/aerologic-takes-low-emission-aircraft)

[cosmiccomet]

I saw the Aeroligc's B772F in FRA parked behind a Jade's B744F.
Very nice view. I have already applied one year ago and I got only
an email saying I had not being selected for the first group and nothing else.:sad:

I am trying to refreshed my application but the website recruitment option seems to be frozen.

I don't speak German, but I have 3200 hrs DC10 SIC and 1500 hrs SIC B744, EU passport and JAR Frozen ATPL so I don't lose my hopes.

[Da Do Ron Ron]

The first commercial flight routed via BAH yesterday onward to DEL and HKG

[HAWK21M]

Whats their routing like....What time does it arrive DEL,and any chance to connect BOM.
regds
MEL.

[Da Do Ron Ron]

As I understand it from a chum at DHL BAH, the aircraft are only operating for DHL at the moment.

The route structure is here, no flight times though.

AeroLogic - Network (http://www.aerologic.aero/web/en/Network/)

[Iver]

How many pilots have been hired so far? What are the ranges of experience - all high time pilots? I noticed on the website that the minimums for FOs are relatively low - have they hired any low-time FOs yet or are they all relatively high-time?

Any word on how the former LTU pilots are now liking cargo flying on the Boeing?

[BrowntailWhale]

Uh oh...

News : From Air Cargo News (http://www.worldaircargoevents.com/news_detail.aspx?footer=1&news_id=1179)

[Castaway2008]

Looking at the route network it seems like this is being lined up to take over the World Airways shared DHL/Lufthansa routes (if they are still flying).Can you do LEJ - EMA - JFK in 1 shift?
BrowntailWhale from the ACW link it seems that DPWN are trying to minimise the negative publicity lately - US scale back - Thousands of redundancies in Europe. They specifically refer to it being a case between DHL Global freight (formerly Danzas-AEI) who would have used commercial companies for their uplifts-but it does ask questions like has DPWN managed to bridge/intergrate the DHL brand or have they still got the obviously expensive divide in Operating companies & will we still see 3 or more different DHL vehicles delivering/collecting from the same customers daily (express/domestic,logistics & air/ocean). Seems like it's still going to take a little more time to get it sorted.:confused:

[underread east]

Aerologic going East, DHL sending coming 763Fs West.

[EAM]

Ok, AL is different from what you have seen in LHITA, as AL is not an LH company, it is correct that LH has its shares in AL, but so they have in JetBlue, Jade Cargo and other companies.
The selection process is very fair, no DLR and no tricks in the SIM.
Would be a good example for LH :ok: Lots of exLTU and AUA guys in there.

My personal oppinion on this is, as the LH guys are right on the LHITA thing, they are absolutely wrong on AL, ist not an LH company and so "not their jobs".


Just noticed the requirements on website shows german language fluency is now required for first officers, any reason for this change?

more or less its has been an internal requirement all the time, just no they made it official, as they have many application from german speaking long haul pilots.

[Boeingbuddy]

EAM is 100 % correct.
Recruitment is very fair , no bad tricks.
Apply and you will see , actually they are looking for
pilots.
Im not sure about the german language , but it is a german
airline in germany . In other countrys it is also a requiremnt
to speak the local language.(Italy,Spain,France)
It is a nice airline to work for and all people are very nice.
If you have the right qulifications it shouldnt be a problem.
Everybody can learn some german.
Go ahead and apply.
Good luck.

[Time Traveller]

Req's for F/Os for accelerated command - German "is desirable but not mandatory"

[MD11F]

@ERM
Hi there, Lufthansa Cargo has a stake of 50% in Aerolgic! Lufthansa Cargo calls Aerologic as a part of the Lufthansa Cargo family! So, at least 50 % of all Pilotjobs belong to Lufthansa Pilots, our and my family! And be sure, we will fight for "our" jobs!!
Md 11 f :ok:

[RampTramp]

So, MD11f, by your reasoning 50% of the pilots should also be from DHL! I can see that working - NOT

[Sick]

Very flawed reasoning MD11.

A share holding does not carry with it an entitlement to jobs in that company. Otherwise, BA pilots would be entitled to 10% of Iberia jobs, and of Qantas jobs (before they sold). I own a substantial stake in a small oil company - Does that entitle me to a job there? ... erm - No! All it applies to is the board of directors, (and I haven't got that many shares)!

[lpokijuhyt]

Hey MD-11f,

You are entitled to be an idiot.

[MD11F]

You can call me whatever, we (Lufthansa Pilots) will fight for our jobs! Aerologic is financed from the money we earned! Our money, our jobs! So simple!
@ all the whiners:E

[EAM]

well said rickfly, but the LH guys only want the nice jobs of "the family", they dont want to visit their relatives in China.

Can anyone find out how many shares I have to buy to get my job in LH?

@MD-11F I guess instead of flying you are just cleaning the a/c at the moment. :{

[sapco2]

Yes but not only do you Lufthansa boys want half the jobs for yourselves, you also want to keep your DHL colleagues off the scene too, as witnessed first hand, when I presented myself for a simulator assessment only to be failed at the hands of a hostile Lufthansa assessor.

Not a single DHL pilot has been offered a job with Aerologic which is indeed a shame bearing in mind the initial interview stage does indeed appear to be totally fair and impartial.

[jumbomax11]

Basically MD11F is right but I wouldn't express it as drastically as he did!

As long as at Lufthansa Cargo Management count Aerologic as their Baby in my view its a clear sign their longtime strategy is to close the present LCAG airline with the MD 11!
At present they say the Aerologic 777 are going to fly the DHL rotations from Leipzig during the weekdays and during weekends they will do some other LCAG flights. All those flights are operated by the LCAG MD11 at present!
Later they will say oh, the 777 are so much more efficent than the MD11 and will increase the rotations on the LCAG network more and more, until
only a few MD11 are left.
Then they will find other reasons like night curfew at FRA which is being discussed now and the age of the md11 or so to shut down the whole LCAG airline as it might not be commercially viable!
All the present flights will be operated by Aerologic or Jade Cargo then!
So all the jobs at LCAG are lost for the Lufthansa pilot workforce then!
Why they always denied to comit to a successor Aircraft to the MD11?

And to those of you who think Lufthansa pilots are no way interested to go to Shenzen to fly the Jade Cargo 747's I can tell you are just wrong!
In many discussions with Lufthansa pilots I found out so many guys were willing to relocate to shenzen, as well as Leipzig, but they were excluded from these jobs!

[MD11F]

jumbomax11, that´s the point exactly! I admit, am to lazy to write it down here in the forum. Once again, 50 % of the jobs are ours! All the blamers and whiners can have the other 50%, see you on your next Linecheck, or Simcheck:E, hey guys, just kidding, i was fair always and will be! Now i go to clean the parked MD11, getting payed for it very well:ok:

[MD11F]

@ee51:ugh:
with your behavior you showed, not qualified! Selection works:D

[EAM]

@ all the Lufthnazi pilots
ee51, this is not the way we talk, we talk hard but we do it fair.

MD-11F enjoy cleaning the nice bird, nice sunny sunday to do so.
Viel Spaß dabei, Reifen polieren nicht vergessen. :ok:

[sapco2]

Auch das Bildschirmfenster nicht vergessen. :ok:

[airwjo]

hey buddies

beside fighting against each other, has anybody an idea how the interview is, going for it soon.

tks cheers:E

[sapco2]

I think you'll find the assessment day well structured and very fair. The tests are all computer based and consist of;

1. A general knowledge test about anything from music to history or science
2. Maths tests
3. Aeronautical knowledge test
4. B777 tech questionnaire
5. English Language test for non-native speakers
6. Various Puzzle tests - IQ type things
7. Psychometric profile test

The simulator test was conducted in a 737NG sim; it's all raw data flying, taking off from 26L LEJ to do some steep turns, climbing and leveling off in the turn, descending and leveling off in the turn, followed by an engine failure then SE NDB and missed approach then ILS to land.

Good luck; I think it'll be a great job if you can make the grade, so pm me if you need any further information.

[sapco2]

I forgot to say, the simulator assessment comes on the 2nd day; before the steep turns there is an accelerate & decelerate exercise to settle you in. When the turn exercise comes you'll be asked to roll out whilst climbing or descending on a specific heading.

Bear in mind the assessment procedures may have changed since I did mine over 1 year ago. Also, the f/o test may differ slightly.

[eurocdn]

Hey, Does anyone know if AL has already finalized agreement with LH for ID tickets (private travel) and how the conditions look. Also is AL offering part time contracts?

[sapco2]

This thread http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/381678-lufthansa-pilots.html tends to illustrate just how emotive the issue of outsourcing has become with our Lufthansa colleagues.

Interestingly, it would seem neither Lufthansa or DHL have any pilot transfers to Aerologic. Some sim assessments are being carried out by LH trainers, but that's as far as it goes it would seem.

[MD11F]

@eurocdn
Benefits! Lh ID flying! Here we are! Aerologic-Lufthansa-Lufthansa Pilots! As said before, our Company, our Jobs, and than, yes ID flying with LH, that simple!
Please don´t take it personal, that´s a general opinion!
Regards MD11f, future B777:ok:

[Best foot forward]

DHL freight DHL routes.......................:oh:

[Graybeard]

This may be total rumor, but I heard LH (AiroLogic?) is having trouble getting financing for the 777, hence, LH is keeping its 744 planes awhile longer.

GB

[airwjo]

md11-f
seems to be u r in the union
let me tell u something
1) welcome to the future of business
2) it is not yr company so no lh jobs
3) i dont think they have all the amenities a lh pilot has
4) and if u want to fly for them then apply as everybody else

think about this before u make some rubbish comments and by the way it shows again, how useful a union is, they r just creating disfavor and envy

tks

[MD11F]

@airwjo
rubbish comment?? I know, there are many people out there who want a job with Aerologic. Aerologic is nothing else than "outsourcing" MD11 jobs at Lufthansa Cargo. I fly MD 11 for almost 9 years now, and I simply don´t like to give my Job to anybody! Yes, I have the option to fly A340/330, or B744 SLF, but to be honest, I love to fly freighters. So, I believe, the 777 jobs belong to the MD11 guys at LH Cargo, and as we are a part of the general contract(Konzerntarifvertrag), the jobs belong to all LH Pilots! @ the DHL guy, you are also invited to fight for your 50% 777 jobs, go for it, not whining! That´s my last 50 Cents for this one, first I go and clean the parked MD11, and when it looks shiny, I climb another one and enjoy to fly it!:E
Over and out from my side, Rgds to everybody out there MD11 f

[airwjo]

it is rubbish comment
and if LH is opening a new joint venture, it is neither the problem of the union nor yours personally.
and I say again: THE AIRLINE DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY LH GUY
and if you want to fly with them, then apply - that's it.
I know the contract with AL, and they do not have all your lovely things at LH - by the way, if you as LH guys are too expensive, then YOU should think about something - I know, what am talking about as am running a company beside flying.
I personally think, that Mr. Mayrhuber has the whole right, to create a new company, jobs and prospections. And if you do not like it at LH main, then change the company, apply, go through the interview as every other colleague out there, but do not think even 1 second, that something belongs to you or others just because of a joint venture.


cheers
:}

[MD11F]

@airwjo
I did not expect you to understand a political issue. Crew cost with a Cargo Airline is peanuts! It doesn´t matter what they pay! But, pay peanuts get monkeys, if you go to work for peanuts.........!? Yes, LH can open up new companys, employ whoever, maybe with a little conversation and a good deal with his loyal 5500 Pilots, we don´t need to employ whoever! And that will be worked out with the german Pilot Union VC, and thanks god, not with you! And now, as the parked MD11 is cleaned, I enjoy flying MD11 until I convert to B777 with my LH contract, my last 50 cents for you:ok:

[airwjo]

oh tks for the 50cent, can buy me a chewing gum

have fun and good luck with your conversion to LH777

your mind and aggressive way shows me again, why i don't like unions, looking for themselves, as usual.
i hope, not all are like you, so leave the AL guys their peace, they are doing a good job and do not interfere in business things, you don't understand.
:}

cheers

[HURZ]

Dear MD11F and all,

after reading this topic I have to admit that I understand both sides...
1. When I finished my ATP (I´m german) the bloody first gulf war started and I applied around the world and I had a recommendation from Cpt. M, beeing the chief training of the B737 in LH and also from Mr. R to join LH. However it turned out that I was not good enough for the Union for two reasons.

Not done the LH flight school, and also no Abitur but the BOS (Entitels to FH eg Dipl Ing).
On the other hand I experienced a total protectionism within the other EU countries... I applied with KLM, AF, IB, etc and they all told me that I´m welcome when I speak their language....

So what is it about? IMHO every company has the right to set up their requirements since THEY pay you the money at the end of the month. There are also political issues involved like:

If eg. LH has to choose between a french or a german pilot, the should take the german guy (when both have the same qualifications) since they would at these days lower the numer of unenployed people and thus lower the expenses the german state has to pay for an unemploqed guy...
AF, IB, etc would do the same.

Finally I decided to leave the german market because if you are not in LH you have to fly for food... I joined CV many years ago and I had a career I would never have had with LH.

I know quite many guys from LH, most of them former LHCG. They all left CGO and went to the main line... and they like it.

MD11F, sorry to say so, but the fact is that you sit in a golden cage with the option to change after 5 years to the main line (pls don´t tell me anything different, otherwise you are not what you pretend to be) and if you have a problem flying with the not to beautiful girls in LH, sorry this is not acceptabel. Most of us do the job because we love it, but never forget about the boys and girls not having a job for the time beeing... You, MD11, are inside the Manteltarifvertrag and you really don´t have to worry, at least for the time beeing, to loose your job.

To the VC: why did the LH club not intervene that Aero Logic´s CEO came from CV and that also his right hand was former CV fleet chief and in the end the chief Flt Ops is the former LTU VP Flt OPS (of course he try´s to get in his mates from LTU since he knows what he get´s)....

Basically you can forget about any avi job in germany unless you are with LH or (I don´t know the conditions) Aero Logic. Flying for AB? You better drive a taxi and have more money at the end of the month.

Think about it

HURZ

[Flying_Frisbee]

To the VC: why did the LH club not intervene that Aero Logic´s CEO came from CV
Because he left CV a few years ago and came to AL directly from LH?

[hetfield]

Now, at the latest, it's getting funny.....

[EAM]

Flying for AB? You better drive a taxi and have more money at the end of the month.

Oh come on, your post is very good, but the last thing is rubbish (no I am not flying for AB and I know their conditions are not very good).

So put it that way, the LH guys get 50% of the AL jobs, of course DHL guys want the same, but on this argument the LH guys have to leave all Condor jobs right now! Condor does not belong to LH anymore, so leave the jobs and give them to who they belong to, everyone outside of LH, "our jobs"


NOW its getting funny. :p

[airwjo]

tks guys, seems like somebody understands it

good luck to all and happy landings

cheers:}:}

[MaxBlow]

Looks like it all comes down to politics...aarrgh

I flew to LEJ a few weeks ago and saw a shiny LH MD11 parked. Will they park more of them everytime Aero Logic gets more t7 ?

[MD11F]

It´s only shiny because I clean it every day:ok:, and by the way, I have a brilliant view out of my "golden cage" I can see a lot of whiners out there, but also some people who have LH inside knowledge, they know it is time to stop outsourcing MD11 and other jobs to anybody! Those anybodys hate us for our good working condition, now they want the B777 jobs with Aerologic, and ask for ID travel on LH!!! No LH guys, but LH benefits???? We have to stop this, I like my golden cage,
Cheers MD11f

[MD11F]

@EAM
jepp, Condor is sold to Arcandor! Most of the Pilots belong to the general LH contract, if LH would pull them out tomorrow, Condor will go bankrupt within a Month! Therefore all the LH guys return to LH on a Plan, but this is also inside knowledge! You can apply for a FO job at new Condor, on Air Berlin T+C´s, good luck, maybe your parents can support you a little!
MD11f

[hetfield]

My Wife - My Home - My Car

works either way:O

[belgianconnection]

MD11F I think you have an attitude problem, never had problems with LH cargo guys seem all to be good and nice chaps, although I only know the ones from German Cargo now LH cargo....

[MD11F]

@belgianconnection
nice little nickname, is this the belgian "deutschland über alles"?
Wrong, I am not disrespecting anybody, and totally wrong, I do not fail anybody´s Sim Asessment! I have trained many CPT´s and Fo´s, and barly non failed anything! I understand your side, there are jobs, you want it! All these new jobs are created only because MD 11 jobs are going to be lost! That is my job! Do you think we give up our jobs without any fighting? No!!!! These jobs are in Germany, German Company, LH 50%, I work for LH for 20 years, I think these jobs belong to all the LH Pilots, and as said before, all DHL Pilots are invited to fight for their 50%. 1 more thing, I have good knowledge first hand whats happening here, so it is a rumor network, I guess it´s the wrong forum to discuss. Wish everybody a happy life, hope for your understanding, will fight for my job! Rgds MD11f

[underread east]

The point is that this NEW airline is neither LH or DHL. It is a new entity. Therefore the point of 2 German Owners=German Company=German Pilots (LH exclusive right apparently:ugh:) is moot. Protectionism in its worst form. LH pilots are neither more nor less entitled to these jobs than any other appropriately qualified pilot with the right to live and work in the EU.

This airline does not represent an erosion in LH T&Cs, or in DHLs. They set the rate, and if it is not acceptable to LH pilots, then they are welcome to sling their proverbial hooks and look elsewhere. The view that it operating LH routes also does not really hold either, as mon-fri the routes flown are entirely DHLs - so by my reckoning, the pilot body should be 5/7 DHL pilots, whose expertise in this sector has been entirely shunned for German cronyism.

[belgianconnection]

Who ho ho ho , I havn't got anything to do with " deutshland uber alles" but this said I didn't know there where MD11F jobs at stake here and thought these would be 2 seperate airlines with no job losses at all!

so I take my words back about MD11F (you don't have an attitude problem:} next beer is on me)
If it is true that LH will shift LH cargo in favour of Aerologic it is totaly understandable that MD11F fights for its rights... and its thanks to the LH pilots and pilot association that at LH they have good T&C's , all the credit to them!!!

I think nobody should miss the point that LH management is indeed trying to cut costs here have you seen T&C at Aerologic?

Pilots should not bitch on eachother put fight together, if you like it or not industrie has been degrading T&C all over , in my little opinion we look more like whores iso the "allure" it had ones before.

Face it we pay for our 100000 € frozen ATPL and some pay for their typerating we get payed **** wages unless you are in a major..... like LH , Air France etc.....

you must be crazy to go for a pilotjob..... guess I will sign in to the nuthouse now.......:ugh:

btw: somebody was speaking about "duetschland uber alles" its the same in Spain, Holland, France, Italy, etc.... they will only hire you when they really need you .

[Leo1977]

Dear collegues,

As a LH pilot i would like to respond to previous posts.
I’ve been reading this thread and want to clear up something:
We do NOT disrespect any other pilots, from any kind of company.

Our management, either LH or LH cargo, is guilty of outsourcing. Jobs are being created and expansion is taking place in Germany and abroad somewhere else (EMB/B777), while jobs are being cut inside LH (A300/B737/MD11). This is a FACT and we can not accept this. And we won’t accept this.

Sure you can say that all of this is not of this time and that we should be more fair to others, but this is not the issue, we are solely fighting for OUR jobs, not more. This you fellow pilots must understand.

Please check out this short movie, it really gives a good view of the situation. Maybe it helps understanding our position.

YouTube - British Airways Pilots warning from America on Open Skies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZsPjQp3CM)

Our Union understands our position for sure and i am sure they (we) will take action! Its just a matter of time. I’m really happy to be on this side though, it’s really comfortable.

Best regards,

[CargoOne]

Why pay pilots more if you can pay less? What's about protecting interests of shareholders? Fire 5% on spot, and offer 25% paycut to the rest, that's how it should work. When market is up again, will be another story.

[EAM]

MD-11F, I dont want to get into this to deep, but LH has sold most of its part of Condor a few year ago, but you still stayed in Condor even the shares of LH were down to 25%, now its 0%, but about 90% are still LH pilots, so with your arguments.....get out of Condor.
I dont want to apply as FO in Condor, I want to apply as CPT....ahhhh no CPTs needed at Condor because of all the LH CPTs who are in Condor.

Buddy if you wanna play the game, play it straight, you cant always change the rules whenever you want it.


@OMann, please...stay in pilots.de

[MD11F]

@EAM, Condor,
well, I try to write it down again, all LH Pilots return to Mainline on a plan! Lots of new FO´s have been employed already, not belonging to the LH general contract. Some of these guys are high time FO´s. The reason why they are not taking DEC at the moment is, the high time FO´s demand the Captains jobs, and they deserve it. So apply as FO, and if you are a smart guy, maybe you get an upgrade! :ok:
Cheers
MD11f

[EAM]

MD-11F, LH pilots are NOT returning on plan, the plan was that most of them return very quick and Condor was looking for 50 DEC, but due to the situation only a few of them will return in the next month so due to this, already selected DEC will not be hired.

But stop this here, talk to your union and see what will happen, but I dont think you will fly the 777F in the next years, but you are flying my routes out of MXP, going to ORD and JFK, these were our routes, so I should get a job on your MD-11:}

[Leo1977]

just let them come to the assessment and fail them even if they were perfectly good

I agree, this is not good. I'm not sure if it happened this way, since i dont have any information about this. The one to blame would be LH(I) management, why sending people do to assessments in this kind of situation, purely waste of money..

so be ready to pack all your stuff and go back to Germany soon

Yes please.. thats the plan.. we never asked for LHI. Who wants to work in a chaos called Italy anyway? Lets hope our managment realizes soon that this outsourcing (LHI, AL) may look cheap in de short run, but in the long run it could get expensive. Especially when not negotiating with us.

[MD11F]

@EAM
I understand, you don´t want to understand, but I understand your point, you are looking for a job! Ok! Once again, Condor has a contract with LH for a plan to return the LH workforce to LH. This plan also includes seniority, and open positions at LH. So, at the moment, I think any airline in the world has some kind of trouble! Means very few positions are available at LH, means very few transfers right now, very simple!
Good luck to all looking for a job, but not on our expense, will fight for our jobs!:E
MD11f

[sapco2]

What I've been reading here makes me feel sad because some of it equates on a smaller scale with the sheer bloody greed that caused the world-wide credit-crunch. We are living through rapidly changing times and those who can only think of themselves need to " STOP THEIR SELFISHNESS". It is outrageous and demeaning to witness fellow professional pilots behaving so greedily. Think about it Guys! Think about all the CRM training you received too!

The facts are; Aerologic have set up their own management team some time ago, with two key positions at the top, one went to a Lufthansa guy and the other to a DHL executive. To be fair, they are perfectly entitled to select whomever they think best fits their profile using the management team they have appointed. The job and the aircraft should be fun so instead of fighting over who gets the "lions share of the work" we should instead be wishing all those who actually fit the profile.... GOOD LUCK!

edited for typo

[EAM]

No, no, dont worry, I have a job and I understand your point and I agree on the LHITA topic, but I think you are compleatly wrong on the AL topic.
With Condor I just wanted to show you the other side of the medal about your point with the 50% of LH in AL. But you want to change the rules as it serves best for you. I wish you good luck, but I still dont think you gonna fly 777F within the next 3-4 years.
You should try the chinese 747F:}

[MaxBlow]

Read in a different forum that 'you can't change the the laws of economics'.

These rules will eventually be applied in Germany as well.
I'm sorry to I burst your bubble MD11F, but fact is that the t7f's in LEJ are already flying (saw it in HKG).
How many LH crews are with them so far ?
How many will be working there in the future ?
Your VC will not stop this simply because LHC will get the right equipment for the right price. This unfortunately is the main interest these days.

I wouldn't be to worried. I agree that it's sad to see the MD11s go but all the crews will keep their jobs eventhough you'll 'only' be flying SLF again. Believe me, there're plenty of crews in Europe with 'real problems'.:rolleyes:

As for Condor - almost a similar thing. If it doesn't belong to the LH club anylonger - why should the LH price tag come with it ? Try to explain that to the beancounters.

I don't like these developements either - it'll be very tough to stop them (= the guys running around in 500$ shoes prentending that the world would stop turning without them).

So keep trying - but don't be to disappointed if it doesn't go your way this time.

[eurocdn]

Does anyone know when the last screenings were held and what was tested / checked / asked?

[flyneo]

I guess the last screenings were in May, and as far as I know the next ones will start in August. I heard (not confirmed) that they are looking for the moment only for 777 F/O s with a rating as they have anogh guys for the left seat !

Would also be happy to get an update on the screening here if somebody has done it in the last months. For the rest, there are already a few posts here that describe it briefly!

And guys.....If you are LH, AB or whatever.....be happy at your jobs....if you are not - dont cry, change ! I think with the ongoing recession it is hard enough to find jobs and we are getting f***** more and more everyday with FDR and paycuts, but the managers still get their bonus even if the company lost money !

I miss the times when there have been strong unions, when we fighted together for our rights !

Greets to whereever you are !

[Iver]

Is it true that Aerologic hired a bunch of LTU A330/A320 pilots initially? I heard the CP was ex LTU. About how many have been hired from the DHL 757 operation? I presume Germans from Qatar and Emirates (with 777 ratings) will be hot prospects for AL.

[underread east]

Qu: How many from DHL 757 op?? Ans: NONE. 2 interviewed from DHK that I know of - neither selected.

[Iver]

Wow - that would be depressing. What do the junior LTU pilots who were hired have that the DHL pilots don't have (beyond a connection with the former LTU CP)? I guess having Space Shuttle experience wouldn't hurt either...

Anyone know where other AeroLogic pilots have been hired from beyond LTU? Do those pilots all have 777 ratings?

[underread east]

Hmmm.

More surprising is that of the DHK pilots who applied (the vast majority) I know of only 3 invited to selection days. Of those, only 2 were able to attend and the results were as stated above.

It would be very interesting to hear what the criteria for selection REALLY are.

[magnum]

As far as I know the initial crews were hired ex LTU very high time ex 767/ MD11/ 330 CDR, FO side high time as well (ca. 10.000hrs) for rapid command, some external CDRs with 777 experience, some high time Austrian FOs 777 rated, some high time 737 FOs for right seat as well.

[what_goes_up]

Does anybody know, what rapid command means? Are we talking about months, years or simply unknown?

[Iver]

Thanks Magnum.

Interesting. Not surprising about the Austrian FOs - it would be nice to get some better route variety with AeroLogic and Austrian is not doing that great financially at this moment. Sounds like some high-time 737 FOs got lucky...

Is it fair to assume that having Boeing time (either 737, 767 or 777) was critical to being considered for those hired or were there LTU Airbus drivers (i.e., FOs) with no Boeing time who were also hired? Meanwhile, DHL 757 drivers weren't considered despite their Boeing time. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[magnum]

hi iver,
sorry no information on the dhl situation. maybe company politics involved. rapid means -depending on previous experience -upgrade between aircraft 3 and 8, i have heared.

[flyneo]

As far as i read on their site rapid command means 5000 hrs ( F/O or CMD) on planes above 55 tonnes and then a certain time with them (1 year or more). As far as I found out they only consider F/O s with 777 ratings and a minimum of 1000-1500 hours for rapid command.

And their application site is (or will be open soon) again for applications , but only for F/O as they have enough DEC s.

Greets,

flyneo

[ZoomInAndOut]

Quote:
1. A general knowledge test about anything from music to history or science
2. Maths tests
3. Aeronautical knowledge test
4. B777 tech questionnaire
5. English Language test for non-native speakers
6. Various Puzzle tests - IQ type things
7. Psychometric profile test
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
:ok: Great info!
Can you explain what the B777 tech questions are like?
Do they expect you to know the systems? Limitations?
How did you prepare for this?

[SMT Member]

I know of a EAT 757 TRI/TRE (+15K hours) who applied and was rejected. Most EAT 757 guys I know didn't even bother applying - it was always in the cards that AeroLogic would be crewed from outside both EAT/DHK and LH. The un-official justification (for EAT/DHK crew) would be lack of German skills - the AL flight-deck is fully crewed by German speakers. For LH crew it would entail an erosion of T&Cs.

A previous post mentioned high-time FOs. Yes, there's some of those in AL. But there's a much larger number of younger guys with not much more than the required minimas. Guess what, besides obviously being qualified for the job, they also speak German fluently and are not tainted by LH or DHL experience.

AL is, to a large extent, crewed by former LTU drivers - very experienced and also very nice and easy going guys. As previously mentioned, the CP is ex. LTU, hence the preference. Fair enough, his toy and all that. Hand on heart, who wouldn't?

As for LCAG pilots wanting the spoils, that's a bit harder to fathom. The present route flown by AL is from the Joint Venture. The JV was supposed to end this July, but has been extended on one route (EUR-US) for one more year. 75% of the freight on the present AL route is DHL.

The utilisation of the B777s is, and will continue to be, 5/7th DHL and 2/7th LH, and the costs split likewise.

Future routes (or at least 5/7th of them) will be DHL routes, and will not spawn from any previous LH route. LH may buy positions on a block-space agreement for those route if they wish to do so. This effectively leaves the aeroplanes doing a spot of week-end flying under LH control.

However, MD11F still seem to think it's fair to claim that LCAG pilots are somehow entitled to fly, at least 50% of, an aircraft that is predominantly kept occupied by DHL, flying DHL routes carrying DHL freight (well, at least 77% of the time) paid 77% by DHL.

All I can say to that, is our perceptions of "fair" are somewhat different.

From my perspective, I believe AL should have been crewed by a mixture of DHL and LH crews. I also think that would have been a very interesting experiment, but being professionals and all it could have been made to work. Alas, nobody asked me and so that didn't happen, and such is life.

[sapco2]

I tend to agree with SMT in respect of hours not really being an issue. I suspect quite a few of the young Germans candidates who have been accepted won't have many hours at all and some may never have flown anything bigger than a 737 before.

If the EAT guy mentioned above is who I am thinking of, then he's a really good guy (we did our screening tests together). He's not German but his spoken German seemed fluent enough to me.

Aerologic haven't, to my knowledge employed a single pilot from DHL or EAT albeit there are in excess of 300 of us working here in Europe. I think no more than a handful of us were actually screened but we were made to feel welcome during the screening process.

[EAM]

I suspect quite a few of the young Germans candidates who have been accepted won't have many hours at all and some may never have flown anything bigger than a 737 before.

and what exactly do you want to say with that?
They should take EAT guys with experiance on 767 and A300, while EAT is taking DEC with CRJ hours only direct on the A300?

[sapco2]

Nothing of the sort EAM and I'm disappointed that is how you've interpreted it. Whether you are Lufthansa or DHL, no-one has a god-given right to a job there and if you would care to read my earlier posts you'll see that I fully respect Aerologic's decision to recruit whomever they want.

From a factual point of view, and in case anyone still thinks this is a job to be shared amongst DHL & Lufthansa pilots, Aerologic have interviewed low timers and those without long haul experience either, so my point is that no-one should not be deterred from applying!

[EAM]

Ok, got your point. I think the same, everyone is invited to apply.
They are looking for FOs with lots of widebody hours as well as for FOs with low hours. The screening is more than fair, but german is still a requirement.

And sapco, you dont realy think I am with LH, do you? You should read my other posts. Guess you misinterpreted my post, as I did with yours. ;)

[sapco2]

I didn't think for one moment you were from LH EAM. Like you, I've been following this thread with interest. Let me wish you good luck if you were one of the lucky ones to get a job there!

[EAM]

Unfortunatly I havent been lucky on this, blew the sim with a stupied mistake :ugh:

[NDBee]

Aerologic published their Terms and Conditions on the webside:
aerologic.aero
But as far as i know the conditions are partly negotiable.
(at least where they put you in their scheme)
cheers

[Denti]

It's probably interesting because it is pretty much the only german company operating widebodies that hires outside its closed shop (apart from ACG). However i do agree on the T&Cs, those are not really great, even compared to other german companies.

[Time Traveller]

hires outside its closed shop

You're kidding, right?!

[Denti]

Eh, why would i? Both other german companies operating widebodies (apart from ACG) only hire only from their own flightschool scheme with a very heavy selection process beforehand and numerous hoops during training which all have to be passed, and even then it is depending on open slots of course. Which means for one outfit that two of them have to share one job and for the other that the only possibility to work is flying Dashs for half the salary than the promised jets.

[bumba]

... any news on hiring process? Thanks

[hashman]

Not sure on the policy for hiring Flight crew, but as far as the groundcrew are concrened, they are deliberately adopting a "German-only" regime. They get around the discrimination laws etc by asking for suitable engineers, but they have to live within 30 mins of base. Their reason is for AOG call-out etc. Similar situation now being adopted by one Luxembourg and one Schipol based outfit.

[Bergkamp10]

Could anybody confirm this is true? I have a friend to whom applied recently. He has been selected for Interview(Ground Position). He does live in Austria??

But he is current MRO Licence holder, etc.

Does anybody consider that he is perhaps wasting his time here?

Thanks :\

[Denti]

During the dinner at the selection the director of flight operations said they do want german speaking only pilots for the time being. German is the official cockpit language and therefore you have to be fluent in it. Flight crew allways has certain standby day callout limits so at least a standby room close to LEJ is somewhat necessary if you do not want to pay for a hotel.

[Boeingbuddy]

All positions are based in Lej. I think that 95% of the flight crew
are commuting. There are two types of stdby, one is the normal
stdby where you have to be in one hour at the airport. Normaly
you have this stdby the day before you go on a trip, so that you
have your days off in a row. Mostly 4 days off sometimes more or
less.The other stdby is at home so that you have enough time to
travel for a duty.
So I would say commuting is possible (In germany or Europe)
Most people are from germany but there are also some guys from
switzerland, austria and italy.
Its a good airline to work for and the people here are very nice.

[boblbee]

Hi everybody,

did anybody go for the interview recently. Can you please post some details or PM me?
Has someone details on how many pilots they take for the accelerated command course? Are there any exemptions for the minimum requirements?
Thank you...

[169west]

... rumors are they have already 110 pilots and they are looking for 30 more!

[skipper777]

i like the way u think MD11, at the end of the day u are just a driver and the boss will always remain a boss so no use raising your blood pressure if the job is meant to be it will be .u just cant whine about it buddy be lucky u have one there are some unfortunate ones out there, so sit back and autoland dont even bother ,:ok:look where alitalias union got them tooo:=

[lerr]

have you flown the B 777 before?
Are they hiring pilots with turboprops hours?

[DHC6to8]

Check your PM's...

[Mr Angry from Purley]

The 6th 777 is due for delivery this Sat i believe.

[LAJ]

Hi Guys

I have an interview with Aerologic coming up very soon. Would appreciate if somebody could provide some info about the tests to expect...

Thanks a lot...

[Frederikh]

Hi Guys

In the same boat as LAJ above. I Will appreciate if somebody could provide any info about the tests to expect...

Thanks and regards

[menikos]

Any news ?

[Full Payload]

In the recent past AL also hired a lot of "Turboprop only" guys.
And they still need a lot of pilots.

Tests:
Most important is the dinner and the interview. You have to fit in the team.

Good luck!

[Mafferick]

Hellow ,

i heard some talks about a LEJ-BRU-BAH flight ops by BOX , anyone on here that heard the same ?
or is it just intern bullish talks ?

rick

[what_goes_up]

Anyone in the know....

Are they still hiring FO for accelerated command? 8600 total (8400 Jet), 6000+ wide-body, 1000 777 would I be in the ball park for that? Realistic time-line for UPG?
How much per-diem per month in average?
Thanks for the hassle!

[Denti]

They told me during the interview i would qualify for accelerated command with around 5000 hours narrowbody experience, just would need to do 1500 hours widebody and then i could apply for any upgrading available, however they also said that all upgrades for the next around 5 years are allready planned with those hired in the first few waves, with no further expansion in sight that could mean a long time on the right seat. So with your experience you certainly qualify.

[ianploum]

Hello,

I got invited with Aerologic on the 24th & 25th of August. I booked 2 hours 737 NG sim with LuftHansa Flight Training in Berlin for Practise ( no Jet experience ). Does anybody want to share these Sim Hours ???

Thanks Ian

[EAM]

Without any Widebody hours you do actually not qualify for the rapid command as you need 1500h of that. This would take about 3 years and most of the A/Cs are delivered by that time.

@what_goes-up, you have all the requirements for the rapid command (5000TT, 1500h widebody and 500h on type), so if you speak german, I guess it will be less than a year

[what_goes_up]

That's what I like the pilots community for... Thanks a lot for the replies!

One more thing. Of the 85'000 gross. How much would be the take home for family with 3 kids?

@EIM German is not a factor... My mother language:ok:

[cosmiccomet]

I don't know why companies like Aerologic doesn't write clearly in theirs pilot requirements that the applicants should speak/write/read GERMAN...

Air France always states in its pilot requirements that you should speak French for applying.

At the end the JAR license is a big lie...I have more than 5,000 hrs in heavy jets and I haven't received more than the acknowledgment application email but I don't speak German.

One of the worst guys in my company was positive initially in Cargolux...he is tall, blonde and of course he speaks German...but somebody saw his name in the positive list and complain because his very bad behavior and he was stopped.

[EAM]

I don't know why companies like Aerologic doesn't write clearly in theirs pilot requirements that the applicants should speak/write/read GERMAN..

Proficient in English, German desirable but
not mandatory

I would say, this is what you want.:}

BTW: All emails I have received are in english.

@what_goes_up na dann is ja alles klar :)

As you might know the german tax system is not known as the easiest one,
it depends on a few factors, married and does your wife work or not, kids.
I would say with 3 kids your net should be around 60k per year, could be more, but 5k net per month plus per diem should be the minimum.

[TheWanderer]

One more thing. Of the 85'000 gross. How much would be the take home for family with 3 kids?

@EIM German is not a factor... My mother languagehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
You can find a tax calculator at the official website of the German Ministry of Finance: https://www.abgabenrechner.de/

The site is in German, but that shouldn't be a problem for you.

[Denti]

Actually you can qualify for accelerated command with only narrow-body hours, however that basically means 2 years waiting (accumulating those 1500 hours widebody) and 5000€ more per year, mind you, that is still only 55.000€ a year if you do not have the rating, 60.000€ if you have. All commands for the planned deliveries are already pre-assigned with those they took on earlier anyway, so everybody joining now has to wait until someone retires or leaves the company to get a place.

[starcatcher737]

Maybe that’s the reason why Aero Logic does not hire co-pilots at age 40+:ugh:

[crille]

Have read that they might be looking for SO's... any truth to this?

[Full Payload]

They hired two Second Officers and want to see how it works out with them.
For the future: ???

[SmilingKnifed]

Are SO jobs likely to come up through the FO recruitment process? I've recently applied (2000 Q400 FO) and Aero Logic is almost exactly what I'm after (I've even been improving my German on the off chance!).

[brandy20]

Hi everybody, do you know if Aerologic keeps on conducting screenings? I applied in August. Tks.

[Full Payload]

Hello,

AL ist still screening a lot and they need many pilots.
But even they´re looking for plenty of cockpit crews they didn´t changed their yardstick. So in the last screenings a lot of aspirants failed already during sim screening and they only hired a few although the need is quite big!!!

You won´t find any details for the screening. Best hints are here and in the german pilot boarder www.Pilots.de (http://www.pilots.de).
But all together is a pretty fair screening process in quite a warm atmosphere.

Good luck.

[Ma. Bates]

is it normal you don't get any reply's on your application? I'm in the system for nearly 2 year without news

[hetfield]

is it normal you don't get any reply's on your application? I'm in the system for nearly 2 year without news

For ex LTU guys not normal. For all others I don't know;)