Break off point

[airman13]

Hi, let's assume you are performing an instrument app for rwy 10, followed by a circle to land on rwy 28.My question is when do yo start time(for 30 sec) , as soon as you commence turn on hdg 145, or after you are established on hdg 145,
thanks!

[SNS3Guppy]

For which approach? Are you talking about timing inbound on the approach? Timing a procedure turn? What are you talking about?

[411A]

...as soon as you commence turn on hdg 145...

Something else to consider.
The airport, during the circling maneuver, needs to be kept in sight at all times.
None of this driving off into the hinderlands, hoping it will somehow reappear after any maneuvering is completed.

[Rainboe]

I think either 30 seconds established outbound, or 45 seconds from start of turn. Not absolutely critical- you are flying a visual procedure not an instrument one. Timing from abeam runway threshold 3 secs/100 feet AAL allow about 1/2 second per knot HW/TW. Use automatics and on base turn (fully configure here) keep descent very gentle- 500fpm may be too much. Keep airfield in sight at all times. Bear in mind the actual landing runway may not be the reciprocal of your approach, so know how you are going to handle it. Know exactly what you are going to do for a G/A! Guess what! In the sim, you're going to G/A!

[Pugilistic Animus]

Airman13,

IF I'm reading you right, I hope I am

if sight is lost of the landing rwy, during a circling approach due to terrain or WX, [it's ok if it's due to airport buildings and such if orientation with the landing runway, can be maintained], like 411A says, then your missed procedure is generally to turn the SHORTEST distance back over the landing runway before proceeding onto the missed approach course, And never descend below MDA on a circling approach until definitely established on the final segment.

PA

[Rainboe]

.....your missed procedure is generally to turn the SHORTEST distance back over the landing runway before proceeding onto the missed approach course, And never descend below MDA on a circling approach until definitely established on the final segment.

Worth illuminating here: exactly which missed approach procedure you will fly? The answer is: on your go-around, first turn towards the runway or make your best effort to get onto the original instrument approach. Make a stab at turning over the airfield (to stay within the safety zone) which should vaguely put you roughly on your original approach. You then try and recover your wits and fly the original instrument approach GA, not the break off visual approach final runway GA. Easiest to see when you are landing on the original reciprocal runway, but you could be doing your final visual approach onto any runway, and the picture becomes more complicated then. And remember you are flying a visual procedure, so timings and headings are controlled by staying visual rather than following instrument procedures and timings.

[airman13]

I asked this, because for atr and airbus at least, in the circle to land procedure they are specified 30 seconds from break off point to fly on heading +or- 45 degrees in respect of initial app course(usually runway hdg) , then to fly parallel with the runway, then to turn onto final on opposite(landing) runway (always maintaining visual contact with landing rwy and maintaining minimum descent altitude for circle to land app involved in).

[Pugilistic Animus]

Oh,...well it's sounds like you're trying a basic visual pattern [except lower maybe],...do you remember the recomended procedures for pattern entry to an uncontrolled field,...it's essentially the same but it seems that ATR [or your company] is giving some basic guidance for for this procedure--a credit to them!!!

but circling approaches do have a huge variety of execution techniques, but to me you are just doing a lowl evel pattern

one more question, can you repeat your question:O?

PA

[FlyingTinCans]

either 30 seconds established outbound, or 45 seconds from start of turn

Agree with Rainbow, this is what ive always been taught in the SIM.

It works in real life too, did a circling approach few days ago

[excrab]

Rainboes last sentence is the most important.

The whole timing thing and especially timing from the end of the downwind leg is done because it is a required exercise on a sim check but the limitations of the simulator visuals mean that you can't actually keep the runway in sight.

For real you fly the circling manouever close enough to the airfield to keep the touchdown zone in sight at all times, and should be aware that many airfields have modified circling procedures, especially where there are terrain considerations, so you should always check the airfield charts before just doing what you always did in the sim.

[Sir George Cayley]

How about?

Navstar?

RNAV (GNSS) ?

NPA?

Gotta be betta

Sir George Cayley

[Rainboe]

They are not recognised approach procedures at the sort of airports where you would have to do a circling approach. You may not believe that most B737s and 757s cannot do those approaches anyway. And as for NPA, I think you do not understand the problem- you are doing a circling approach because there is no aid or procedure for the runway you are landing on.

This is professional stuff!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well, then you would be flying VMC under IFR ? The requirement would be to keep VMC?
You may not be at an airfield where there is either a control tower (lots in Africa like this) or you may be under ATC control. At a French or Italian airport you might also have been given a circle to land if they are in some doubt about which runway they want to use today. So then you had better stay VMC!
But either way...is it not a visual approach and so the timing precicion thing becomes academic, for aiding the accuracy of a visual circuit.

[Rainboe]

No, you are not flying VMC. 'VMC' has nothing to do with it. You are flying a visual circuit. Positioning the aircraft is purely up to you within the constraint of remaining within the airfield protected area AND keeping the airfield in sight, and not hitting hard bits or contravening your company regulations regarding approach stability.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Thank you - my mistake-of course the VMC (conditions) do not apply in such cases.