QF LH Tech Crew EBA voted up

[Lusty Blows]

Just released,

97% For

3% against

[blow.n.gasket]

How many actually bothered to vote?

[Vindiesel]

Over 90% of eligible voters did so. Good turnout.

[Keg]

It was a great turn out for the vote and shows that whether for or against, QF pilots are fully engaged in their EBA discussions. I hope that they remain engaged once the dust has settled and we start all over again.

[Jed Clampett]

Excellent result :ok: and just goes to show what can happen when the Company and Pilots work together to bring about a mutually acceptable result. Hopefully the CEO will take note and we can work together during these hard times and also these expansive (Jetstar) times and come together to make this Company prosperous for all. Or am I dreaming?:(

[heads_down]

any pay rise? retroactive?

[Jed Clampett]

An equivalent 17% payrise over the life of the EBA (1Jan 2007 through to 2010) plus an extra 5% for the A380 pilots. A few efficiency offsets but overall a very good result for all.

[heads_down]

that is an excellent EBA, wished we at cabin crew got something better, now facing sack...

[max autobrakes]

Fantastic,brilliant even, can you guys pat yourselves on the back anymore?
I personally think this result didn't really have that much to do with the contents of the proposal ,as good as they were under the circumstances (after all large sections of it were lifted straight from that other EBA that shall not be mentioned) but rather the current economic conditions we now find ourselves in and the fear and uncertainty this World wide economic meltdown has created.
Let's not forget ,all this EBA has really done ,if you really want to be blunt ,is delay the time when Qantas pilots will really have to work out what is worth having and what's not when it comes time to negotiate for relevance to the unit cost mindset management in the next EBA.

[What The]

after all large sections of it were lifted straight from that other EBA that shall not be mentioned

Which bits? Be precise.

[OhSpareMe]

This EBA 7 Variation was a no-brainer. Of course it was going to be massively voted up. The real test will come next time around. If AIPA can get a fleet pay EBA based on A380 rates without contentious changes to the agreement such as those offered in the defunct EBA 8 (I am talking about training restrictions here) then I will be very impressed.

If not, then all we have done is cemented in another pay scale (A380) that further distorts the promotion and rostering situation within the LH division. If that is the case then I am headed (as soon as promotions start again) to the new M.R.V along with my cost-free upgrade training. Costly and inefficient for sure.

[CaptCloudbuster]

I am headed (as soon as promotions start again) to the new M.R.V along with my cost-free upgrade training

Provided of course your not made redundant first:eek: They couldn't / wouldn't do that would they?? Not now that Team Bazza has established lines of communications with Charlie Q based on mutual respect and trust:rolleyes:

Watch this space... I see from QREWROOM LSL is already being assigned contrary to our EBA on the '76.

[The Mr Fixit]

First of all, Congratulations if this is what you wanted but knowing QF (and we had a 18 month 'discussion' about wages and a buggery campaign) I suspect the devil is in the detail.
Personally I don't like disproportionate wage outcomes (don't get me wrong we have voted for some in our package) as usually a majority of people get left behind whilst the minority (usually the ones' best off) benefit.
In the Engineers dispute of 2008 the company pulled out all stops to break the back of it's engineers and their union, they were unsuccessful and the engineers walked away with 4.5% pa on average.
The questions I pose are the following
Do you believe we can resurrect a collective bargaining group for all unions ?

Do you think payrises can make up for a loss of conditions ?

Do you believe that the new 380 payment was an establishment of a new benchmark or a selfish grab for cash by a select group ?

Do you think that the engineers union having the balls to take dixon on paved the way for all other unions to be able to break the glass ceiling that the mad emperor had imposed or was it just a matter of time?

looking forward to some discussion

[WhoFlungDung]

Slow down guys. This EBA is only 3% PA starting when the last EBA expired and a 5% payrise for the 380 with some offsets. So really, it would have to be a win for QF - inflation only payrise with some offsets.

[busdriver007]

WhoFlung$%^&,
Look carefully at the increments. It is 4% per year with a little more compounding. I agree the next one will be the interesting one.
BD7.

[hoss]

i dont usually follow whats going on in qf. let me get this straight, you guys are celebrating an eba result but your about to put pilots on the street?

[Tankengine]

You would prefer us all to take a pay cut and put those same pilots on the street?:confused:

IF any are made redundant depends on NUMBERS required, not whatever they are paid.

Due to training costs and long lead times to train up again hopefully no redundantcies but hour reductions / leave assignments etc.

[OhSpareMe]

I feel that it is highly unlikely Capt Cloudbuster that I will be made redundant.

In the meantime I am prepared to take every day of leave - LSL included - owing to me right now, including the days that I will accrue whilst on leave. I will be doing my bit to ensure that no pilot from the bottom of the list is made redundant. All leave owing needs to be fully exhausted before even one pilot is laid off.

Just waiting for the FSO asking for volunteers. I will be onto it like the drain pipe rat!

[hoss]

good work.

[QFinsider]

Why don't we look at a Top down VR??

Could not a case be made for a young chap with say 30 years "left" to be of more value than a 60+ Captain with only a few?

[heads_down]

I have heard we have many senior pensioner look-alike pilots, is that true?
actually would not surprised me, cos most of the oldies in cabin crew are way pass senior pensioner age group but still unwilling to let go. (for self interest reasons, not for the betterment of Qantas as a company)

[2b2]

for self interest reasons

that's why most people go to work. :ugh:

[Capt Kremin]

Top down VR is too expensive to the Company. The current surplus is ~140 pilots so if you offer VR to the most senior pilots it will cost the company millions, not just in VR payments, but considering that one retiring 744 Captain can generate up to nine promotional slots, you can guess that isn't going to work.

Have you guys seen the list of pilots with 40 years service pinned on the noticeboard? Figure out what each one of them would cost the Company in VR!:eek:

[Keg]

I'm not sure how true this is but a couple of weeks back someone was suggesting that the 744 ranks still don't have enough crew to be burning through the excess leave- something like 20(ish) crew short to be able to do that. The lack of advertising of additional leave slots for the 744 would appear to give credence to that rumour although it'd be interesting to hear from any 744 crew. I wonder then if in the slots due to be advertised soon we'll see some transfers from the 767 and/or A330 to the 744. I don't expect that there would be any promotions (S/O to F/O and F/O to Captain) given the current excess in each of those ranks on other fleets.

Wouldn't that be ironic though. In a time of downturn and forced leave, promotion is still ongoing due to the numbers not being 'right' on the various fleets. Time will tell I guess.

[QFinsider]

Don't worry Capt..

Was tongue in cheek..No way would ENOUGH of the old timers do something for those that follow...They will keep slurping away until curtain call..Naturally the "team" in residence will ensure this continues...(even if it is another year or two on 35 year "career"

We could however look to reward FO/Capt pay on the so called "harder" working fleets!! (hang on that was proposed on qroom, which necessitated taking it from the junior pilots...the same ones who will suffer to preserve the status quo...ho hum

:mad:

[Howard Hughes]

Why don't we look at a Top down VR??

Could not a case be made for a young chap with say 30 years "left" to be of more value than a 60+ Captain with only a few?
How about a productivity based VR QFInsider?

[heads_down]

It's rubbish to say becos the amount for redundancy payout is going to be huge, therefore the company will contemplate only the junior ones to pay less.

All redundancy payments are tax deductible for the company, in fact very favorable tax deduction for the company, so there is an incentive to pay more for redundancy expenses, you get it all back as a credit in business expense.

No matter what your redundancy payment may be for 40 years multiply by 40, it is all operating expense. There is a big incentive to do it.

Even if the entire work force went redundancy, it will still pale in comparison to the fine The European Courts will announce next month for criminal price fixing charge/ It has already been proven so no need to plead not guilty. Also Euros are double the amount in Aus dollars. Yes I am sure your team manager can explain to you what is doing the crime and doing the time. Ironically, CCTM preach to you to obey all laws and the company itself set a great example by committing a criminal act. Oh wait, it does not count cos Dixon did not know about it. What a load of cow dung.

Previous precedences included a percentage of the profit made during the period the crime was committed. In other words, whatever Qantas had issued to the market in those period about how it made this and that figures, than it is a percentage of that.

No spread out payment accepted, all up front payment and ,and yes, plus interest.
Looks like AJ might have to tapped into the 3 billion reserve that everyone at Qantas seemed to boast that no one else in the world has it except Qantas. It's only 1.5 billion Euros, the reserve in the piggy bank. And getting lesser as operating expenses exceed revenues since October last year.

On another footnote, there are many ways accounting can make it seemed like you have cash that is not even there. It is something they called unrealised revenues, and that is virtual cash but it is not there. it is bizaar but all big companies use that to make them look cash up, many have since gone to the funeral, babcock, allco, even entities such as AIG, BofA, wonder what virtual methods Qantas use to make it look cash up.

[Capt Kremin]

The redundancy payments are the tip of the iceberg. The big costs would come when they have to replace Captains they already have, plus all the supplementary training, when the inevitable upswing occurs.

That is why redundancy is the LAST option, because it works in reverse as well for the bottom up scenario.

[heads_down]

the way things look, I believe the upswing will be very far away, let's just say it is no 2 city blocks away.

American Banks that received federal money have failed stress test. This means it is still along ways away before business confidence improve. Not only that, AIG agains reported a loss, despite so much tax money pumped in.

GM is another big worry. That's still un finish business.

Europe is so knee deep in recession it will take them no less than 2.5 years to recover and that is optimistic/

Australia? Well airlines business is dependent on overseas situations, not so much what is happening here. You could have a 90% rise in home sale and it will still do diddley to Qantas's business.

Let's not forget 1million here will be out of work. This is treasury forecast.

We still have no positive confirmation Swine flu is completely and utterly eradicated. what if it strikes back in a few months with thousands casualty? hows that going to affect airlines?

[SkyScanner]

Keg, Qantas has only just released the leave list and they are working on yet another flying plan. The word from allocations (horses mouth) is the pilots will be offered slots on the 737. The only time you would transfer any 767 pilots to the 330/ 744 is when all leave has been burnt, it is cheaper this way.

[ditch handle]

Quote-

"We still have no positive confirmation Swine flu is completely and utterly eradicated. what if it strikes back in a few months with thousands casualty"

__________

What about if you start taking your medication. :rolleyes:

[Transition Layer]

The lack of advertising of additional leave slots for the 744 would appear to give credence to that rumour although it'd be interesting to hear from any 744 crew

Divisor for S/Os still only 160hrs but I've been assigned a standby and offered more standbys/sim supports in the past week which would take me above 165hrs, so things must be relatively tight crewing wise. (And I'm roughly halfway on the 744 S/O list)

There has been a steady dribble of guys still going to the 737/767 in the past few months (probably all finished now) with no new S/Os so maybe things are moving a little bit closer to the ideal establishment.

[SkyScanner]

Standbys TL, wonder if any 161 cadets got any:E

[C441]

Don't overlook the 3 744's that will be parked soon. (1 at Avalon, 2 in the desert.)

[GaryGnu]

Keg,

The lack of advertising of additional leave slots for the 744 would appear to give credence to that rumour

Given that since the demise of the Classic the old B744 designation has become B747, my take is that they are offering (or looking at offering) additional leave on the Jumbo. (NTFS 45/09)

[Keg]

Fair enough Gary. I had a look at the website and it showed lots of annual leave being promulgated for the 767 but 45/09 isn't showing up in NTFS. I must be missing something! :confused: