Buying an experimental abroad (US) an flying it in Europe?

[joris]

Dear All,

Can you buy an experimental aircraft like a Glasair or a Lancair in the US import it and fly it legally in Europe on an N or other European D or PH registration? I do hold FAA and JAR privileges....There seems to be a lot of confusion around this subject!
I am looking for a speedy aircraft capable of doing 600 NM in less then four hours. So a two seat 160-180 Kts speedbird would be ideal!
rgds

[S-Works]

You can't operate an experimental category aircraft in Europe on the N reg. If you import one then it has to go onto a permit. Their are Glasair both Piston and Turbine on permits in the UK. They become limited to DAY/VFR only.

[Rod1]

If the aircraft you are interested in is an approved LAA design then this may help;

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Building,%20Buying%20or%20Importing/TL%201.06%20Imported%20Aircraft.pdf

You can operate an N reg experimental aircraft in the UK, but only for 30 days a year.

Rod1

[joris]

If the aircraft is put on a UK Permit to fly, can it be operated throughout Europe or only restricted to UK Airspace?

Maybe put it on a EU registration German, Belgian etc.. officially which can be a painfull excercise I guess?

I know for instance The Belgian CAA has a list of approved homebuild Aircraft alltough its totally not clear what in case you buy one and not have build it yourself..

[joris]

thanks for the info

[Justiciar]

Even if it is an approved design you still need to make sure that the individual aircraft will gain a permit in the UK if imported. There have been cases of aircraft on the Experimental category being imported and refused a permit or having to make expensive alterations because they do not comply with UK specifications, e.g max weight is too high or the C of G is outside acceptable limits. Remember that each aircraft is an individual construction and only as good as its builder. The rules are, I believe, much more relaxed with experimental aircraft than they are for Permit aircraft in the UK.

[Mark 1]

The ECAC agreement theoretically allows permit amateur-built aircraft to operate throughout Europe.
The snag is that each country has its own interpretation of the agreement.
France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Italy have a fixed arrangement not requiring any prior authorisation (last I knew). Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Channel Islands require prior permission (and the Belgians want their palms greased too). The UK also requires prior permission to non-UK homebuilts (see AWN52). So much for European harmony.

The LAA have a leaflet, which isn't very upto date so a bit of research may be needed.

In practice, it's not too onerous

[Flintstone]

Hell of a gamble though. Short of taking an LAA inspector with you to conduct a pre-purchase examination there'd always be the chance that you were importing a rather expensive lawn ornament.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just ask yourself - how can I prove that the construction of this composite aircraft is adequate?

Answer: through good build records, or by cutting it apart (which rather makes the answer irrelevant).


So, I'd be very cautious of any of these high performance composite aircraft, because the US build system for amateur/experimental generally doesn't keep the sort of records LAA for example requires.

On the whole, I'd accept that the system here is the system here, and buy a locally registered aircraft, even if that limits your choices.

G

[Mark 1]

An RV-7/8 would also meet your need for speed, the construction quality can be more easily checked and it can be flown on short grass runways. Quite a few RVs have been successfully bought onto UK permits.

Some other thoughts:

Regular 600nm trips will need IFR capability unless you are flexible on time, so not suited to permit aircraft.

The exchange rate, VAT and shipping/ferrying costs will bring the US price up to UK levels with the extra hassle of registering, inspecting and gaining permit approval. You would have a wider selection to choose from though.

[Flintstone]

The exchange rate, VAT and shipping/ferrying costs will bring the US price up to UK levels with the extra hassle of registering, inspecting and gaining permit approval.

Exactly the (reluctant) conclusion I reached this week. The cost of hunting an aircraft down, inspection and shipping will be the same though whether you buy an aircraft for $20,000 or $200,000 so if you're looking at the the top end of the market at least your costs won't add 50% to the overall price.

[Rod1]

“Just ask yourself - how can I prove that the construction of this composite aircraft is adequate?”

Depends on the composite aircraft. A machine which requires a lot of wet lay fiberglass yes, very hard. A modern Carbon machine like an MCR, very little problem.

Rod1

[joris]

Thanks All for the contribution,

There are some valid arguments to this thread. Importing a US experimental could end up in a lot of headackes... . Going IFR means forget the the homebuild stuff. I have flown this distance several times west-eastern europe bound in a TMG and yes this means in general from April till October it can be done fairly according planning. Unless EASA comes up with an IFR rating tailured for the GA community the only solution is buying an un-econimal N registered A/C somewhere in europe I guess......

[Genghis the Engineer]

“Just ask yourself - how can I prove that the construction of this composite aircraft is adequate?”

Depends on the composite aircraft. A machine which requires a lot of wet lay fiberglass yes, very hard. A modern Carbon machine like an MCR, very little problem.

Rod1

How? I can think of various technologies, but to be honest checking bond and lamination strength inside the back of a bonded together shell fuselage is going to be less than straightforward with any of them, and the cost of the equipment you'll need to do these inspections won't be cheap.

G