Why a vote on COS08 improvements?

[Sqwak7700]

Can someone answer me why we are voting on improvements to the COS08?

I don't understand, why do they want a collective vote on COS08 improvements when accepting the COS08 is still an individual choice? I just can't find the angle on this. If they are improvements, then why not just make them part of the COS08?

If we vote no, then obviously they don't become part of the COS08 choice. Why would we do that? Why is this even a choice?

It seems like the AoA has failed of clarifying this point, they just propose it to a vote, so it doesn't make any sense. I will be voting no until I figure this one out. :confused:

[Sqwak7700]

The company has always insisted on a 'vote' to attempt to legitimize their castration of the previous contract. It started with 'B' scales, and they're still doing it now.

Understood, but this is a vote on improvements, it is not the vote on COS08.

So I don't understand why they would use this vote to single out people. Wouldn't they rather single out people based on wether they voted to accept COS08 or not?

Don't understand why we would vote on wether we want to make the deal better or not. It just doesn't make sense, and no-one seems to have an answer as to why this is even up for vote. :ugh:

I still don't get it.

[airbus172]

This was made very clear at the meeting this afternoon. You're vote is requested to ratify the changes to Cos08. These changes are improvements to the current Cos08. Cos08 is not great but it is out there and it is available to those that choose to sign, so by voting "yes" you are improving what those officers get. If you don't want to BE on Cos08, Great-thats most of us at the meeting. Nonetheless, its an improvement on the contract thats out there so vote "yes". As for which Cos you accept, thats up to you and to be honest, there is nothing in Cos08 to entice most of us that aren't in our 50's.

[Sqwak7700]

OK Airbus, I'm also voting no on COS08. Since COS08 is a degradation of my current COS99, even with the improvements, why would anyone that is voting no on COS08 vote for improvements to it?

I would rather let COS08 remain as crappy a deal as it is to make it less attractive. After all, if the majority of pilots are on COS08, then we will get into a scenario similar to the A scale versus B scale that we had over the years, where the A scale did not receive any improvements.

So I guess I'm voting no on the COS08 improvements. Those people that already made their decisions and accepted COS08 should have waited before signing a blank check. :D

[airbus172]

the last update from the AOA clarifies a lot of this.
there will be no discrimination for those of us who stay on Cos99, of course we don't have to believe that but the AOA will take CX to court in the future if we (cos99) are disadvantaged.

The vote the AOA wants you to take is only to ratify the improvements to Cos08. All new joiners are on Cos08, why would you not want them to have a better deal even though its still worse than ours, not very brotherly. This vote doesn't send a message to the company-your choice of Cos does. Don't chose Cos08. Don't even take SLS. That sends them a message. The AOA doesn't want you to take cos08, its a personal decision that works only for older b scale captains and some fraighter pilots. In fact, the more of us that stay on cos99, the better. But don't confuse the AOA vote with your election on crew direct.

[fire wall]

sqk7700, how is cos08 a degradation on your cos99?

[Ex Cathedra]

It's there because spineless pilots are allowing it to be there.


What's the problem with COS08 being there? It's not a good deal for most, but then no one is being forced to take it.

Now, what I don't get is why I should vote for or against improvements on a contract that I won't elect...?

[Sqwak7700]

sqk7700, how is cos08 a degradation on your cos99?

Because Fire Wall, management has already stated the position that further pay increases will go to COS08 and not to COS99. Just like A scalers have been disadvantaged by the introduction of a B-scale.

The above statements are fact, they are undisputed. It is accepted by everyone at Cathay that introduction of lower conditions means the end of improvements to the higher conditions.

So voting yes to these COS08 improvements is like putting perfume on a turd. It might make it more appealing, but it is still a turd and I don't want more people on lower conditions if I can prevent it.

[fire wall]

So, as it stands at the moment, CoS 08 is an improvement on CoS 99 until such a time as the "threat" of payrises for CoS08 only is carried out.
Interesting logic.

Further, the big honcho has backed away from this threat when he realised the legal ramifications. Guess he learnt it doesn't pay to telegraph your punches.
I will try and find you the link.

[Darling]

Hi Ex C,

"Now, what I don't get is why I should vote for or against improvements on a contract that I won't elect...?"

The vote is not about YOU, it is about what you can do for those who are on, or wish to choose, COS08.

By voting for it and supporting the AOA recommendation, THEY will get the improvements.

If you don't vote, or vote no, and the vote does not pass, the improvements won't be accepted and those that would've benefited will not, while you remain at the status quo. Although, consider that many (not all) of the improvements will not be reflected in the COS document and are policy change that YOU will benefit from.

What the AOA is saying by recommending a vote to accept the changes is that they believe it is the best improvements they can get at this time - Rule 9 of Negotiating 101, know when to take a deal.

The question you should be asking is "not what your Association can do FOR YOU, but what YOU CAN DO for your Association".

What COS you elect in Crew Direct is what will affect you personally.

For future negotiations, any improvement to the current COS raises the bench mark.

[iLuvPX]

The question you should be asking is "not what your Association can do FOR YOU, but what YOU CAN DO for your Association".

Now I have said some dumb things on here before, maybe thats even a understatement, but Darling, you put the STU in STUPID with this little gem.

Do you hire a housekeeper, then have her sit on the couch while you clean up? Or hire a lawyer, then defend yourself in court?

The question IS what the AOA can do for you. They claim to offer a service, charge you good money for it, yet fail to deliver time and time again.

Vote no on COS 08 "improvements" ie. lipstick on a pig!

AOA SO GAY!!

[IFB]

7700 and buddies - loving the attitude lads!

"I can stay on the COS that suits me best but F:mad:K the rest of you wank:mad:s who were stupid enough to join on/switch to COS 08"

You must get vertigo looking down on all the idiots below you on the ASL:ok:

For crying out loud when will people learn that if this company puts money on the table then GRAB IT WITH BOTH F:mad:ING HANDS. If you dont it will evaporate never to be seen again! Talk about making the same mistake again and again and again:ugh:

For some COS 08 is actually an improvement however, if you do not feel that way then the more fortunate of you can maintain your individual status quo and remain on COS99. Still I guess that ability would just not be good enough unless you were also given the ability to s:mad:t on those who have no choice in the matter.

"Yeah baby I will take what I want and make damn sure anybody stupid enough not to think like me gets royally F:mad:ED."

Maybe you guys should look to moving to an office on the third floor. You have the necessary people skills required!

[iceman50]

Exactly IFB.

Plus what is all this about improvements achieved on COS 08, pity we did not grab it when it was offered, it actually had pay increases in it for a few years! Take what is offered and go back again - but of course the "young bloods" who know it all believe that their "unity", which nobody has had before them, will achieve "great" things.:ugh:

[iLuvPX]

Yeah you are right IFB, cater to the minority. Why not do something for less than 20% of the pilot body, instead of working a deal for the other 80 PERCENT and those that have been here DECADES longer than some new joiner. :ugh:

[airbus172]

Sqwak7700,
your "undisputed facts" are disputed and unfactual. Further pay raises will not be solely on cos08, that would be against the companies stated promise not to discriminate against those of us who stay on cos99. if they lie, i hope you'll be the first to take them to the labor tribunal and you'll have the full backing of the aoa. Please read the the latest update if you can't make it to the meeting so you'll be better informed.

[Sqwak7700]

Sorry IFB, but COS08 was a failure of this pilot group. Not entirely our fault since we don't really have much choice when the company says that newhires will be on COS08.

In a normal company, everybody would be on the same conditions, even new-joiners. I never expected you, a newjoiner, to fight my battles. But surely if you did your research you would have learned of the dilemma we have dealt with regarding A and B scales. Anytime you have a "B" scale, you lower the bar. The only way to fight this race to the bottom is to prevent the B scale in the first place.

Now, we weren't able to prevent the newhires coming on COS08, but I can sure do my part to prevent more people take it up. As mentioned above, the majority are on COS99, so I am fighting for the majority, not just myself. It is you who is not the team player. Why don't you help the fight and maybe if we all say no to COS08 and SLS we can get them to put everyone on COS99, including yourself.

Remember boys, the company needs you to take the pane from a to b. This place runs on freewill, and if you think we don't have any power to affect negotiations, you are not giving yourself enough credit.

[Rook]

Un-effing believable. I would love for a captain to look at an Cos08 SO in the face and tell him he voted DOWN the improvement to his Cos that has no effect of him. To say that you want to keep the bottom **** to stop people from coming in is pure insanity. I especially love all this attitude from B SCALERS! You above all should know what it feels like for your senior colleagues to sail you down the river so they don't have to swim. Stop the trend of eating your young. FCUK. This really is a no brainer. Make gains when you can for chris sake.

[Ex Cathedra]

Thanks a lot Darling... (Man, I haven't had the chance to say that in a while...) :)

It does make sense if the changes also apply to those who had no choice but to join on POS08. I didn't know their contracts were going to benefit from the improvements as well.

[IFB]

iLuvPX – with 15% of pilots already on COS 08 and another 15% on A scale due to retire in the next 4.5 years or under, your “less than 20%” minority is already nearer 30%. Additionally for whatever reason (age, base, ftr fleet, etc) there are many of the remaining crew who actually see COS 08 as an advantage. That means your “minority” if not already a majority it is pretty close to becoming one! As for your second point, this deal actually seems to FAVOUR the older guy who has been here for decades, not only does it give him protected A scale for another 4.5 years, but he can then work for another 10 years should he wish to! But don’t let either of the above facts put you off spouting rubbish!

Crucially you have the choice to stay on 99 with BPP etc etc should you feel the deal offered is not good enough. If that is your feeling then fine stay on 99, but what I can’t understand is why you would actively choose to reduce the COS of another work colleague (whatever, that percentage is). That to me is utter selfishness at its worst!

7700 – What makes you think I am a new joiner? Just because I wrote my post based on your perspective perhaps? Fact is I am on COS 99. I may not like the new version of COS 08, but it is an improvement for many and it is certainly a better deal than what was originally on offer thanks to the AOA. More importantly it is about as good as we can expect at the moment! History has shown us that when this company introduce a new scale, there is no going back. Question is are you ready to learn from history? Unfortunately it was our fault that COS 08 was introduced, but if we were ever going to win that one we had to do it years ago. We failed on that score and now have to make the best of a bad situation and cutting off our noses to spite our faces (or rather cutting off the noses of those on COS 08) is not the way to do it. To that end we have 2 choices:

1. Fight the company to put all on COS 99. If that is you choice then look at how the A vs B scale fight went and see if you can predict the future on that front? Nobel cause perhaps, but reality says that it is a lost one.

2. Try to improve the new COS 08 ASAP. To vote no to the AOA will do the exact opposite.

If you want to fight the company then fine go ahead but don’t do it by sacrificing other peoples COS improvements.

[TheHKAOA]

Simple. It's a requirement under the rules of the HKAOA.

A member tried to get a motion criticising the last GC for not putting RP extension to the vote.

It's pretty clear that voting to accept improvements to something (not sure when we last got improvements to anything) is something that should not be rejected.

It's just as clear that accepting these improvements does not mean anyone has to sign onto COS08.

[Adolf88]

To all the (possible) NO voters out there:

Have you ever thought about this one:
"transferring from your CoS99 onto CoS08 in say 3 years time (for whatever reason)?"

Wouldn't you like those conditions being then as good as they can be?

Regards

[FlexibleResponse]

adolf88 from Berchtesgaden
To all the (possible) NO voters out there:

Have you ever thought about this one:
"transferring from your CoS99 onto CoS08 in say 3 years time (for whatever reason)?"

Wouldn't you like those conditions being then as good as they can be?

Regards

Your handle and location is rather distasteful and indicates an unsavoury and unbalanced mental attitude.

[goathead]

Vote NO to "the improvements of cos 08"

Why ?

Just look to the problem faced by our A scale brethren , they are being f###ed ! , big time !!! soon that will be us! soon you will be faced with the same sort of of b#lls##t , and all you non AOA whinging lot will still be harping on here like the sorry lot you are , no vote no say.

IF YOU THINK AGREEING TO SLS AND COS 08 WILL APPEASE YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN . SLS is just a voluntary paycut ! wise up

Vote NO to the improvement of cos 08 , NOT GOOD ENOUGH YET !

Send a message, we can do better

P.S why did we approve SLS ??? i still dont get it ?

[Oval3Holer]

Unsavoury? Oh my God!

[Sqwak7700]

IFB:

I guessed that you where a new-joiner because of your apparent lack of understanding and your limited posts.

First of all, there will never be one scale at CX. I can guarantee you in a few years time they will be pushing COS14 or something like it down our throat. And you will be crying that we should protect COS08 to someone that thinks we should improve COS14.

Are you not smart enough to see that history is repeating itself? This is our chance to stop the cycle, or at least fight against it. You suggest giving up on it cause it is too hard. I'm sorry, but I have a little more backbone than you do, and I believe in standing up, regardless of the consequences. If you don't, then you are only helping them repeat the degradation that they brought on the A scale when B was introduced.

The only way to stop them in my opinion is to vote NO on SLS and COS08, and vote NO on improvements to COS08. That is the first step, and that is the only way to show unity for our rights. Then we can continue the battle on bypass pay and continue fighting the company in the courts every time that they abuse our contract.

You need to stand up now IFB. Don't wait until it is unbearably crappy to work here, do it now before it gets that way.

Frog in steadily heating water analogy seems comes to mind....

[IFB]

Limited posts does not man lack of experience, but instead the fact that I have a life and so do not spend hours on this forum! Wonder if you can say the same?

You and I will just have to agree to disagree and I see little point in either one of us trying to change the other POV because it just wont happen.

Fact is if I choose to stay on 99, but vote to keep others from bettering their COS in the knowledge that my COS will not change then I just could not live with myself!! You are one special breed:ok: And I thought you said you did not expect others to fight your battles! Nice one

In my opinion your opinion is lousy but hey if voting to screw over you less fortunate work mates gets you what YOU want then I guess in your special world of 1 the ends justify the means.

Now that COS 08 is here with about 15% of crews on it you are deluded if you think the company will have a change of heart and put everybody onto COS 99 just because some voted to stay on 99 and no to SLS. I don't suggest giving up because things are too hard, but that we lost that particular battle years ago and it is now a lost cause. Ever heard the phrase "flogging a dead horse" in your special world? As of now we should be practising damage limitation and grab everything we can when it is on the table because soon as the vote goes against the company the sweeteners will go never to be seen again. By the way how is your 3% payrise as of the first of Jan 09........Oh hang on a minute we did'nt get one. Thats right it is because the company took that sweetener off the table because the GC could not put COS 08 to the vote. Seems that worked out well for everybody! Not trying to say that the GC were wrong in that case, but just wondering if you have learnt the lesson about history repeating itself! No oh well. As for COS14 well I guess time will be the jury on that one, but if I do not like it and if they give me the choice to stay on 99 or 08 or whatever COS I am on, then I will make my choice knowing that I did not push other drowning men under to better my own position.

You cannot say the same. :=

[iLuvPX]

I concede the AOA has done some good for their members over the years, though not more good than bad overall. But this is not the time for weakness. Sweetening up a bad deal still lowers the bar. How can you not see this? And dont say they are doing this just to be in a position to negotiate better things later on. You can put a turd on a plate and call it fillet mignon, but in the end, youre still eating sh!t.

I agree also that the infighting must stop. Pprune has been the only outlet for frustrations about this current situation. I wish collectively we could do more to stop the CX machine, but in the end, they will win no matter what. They know, the AOA knows it, we all know it...thats whats so crappy about it.

Nothing will change, management will always win. So for now, im bending over a pinball machine in a dirty bar, skirt hiked up, panties around my ankles, waiting for NR and TT to take turns at me. The best we can hope for is that they have warm hands.

Peace.

[Sqwak7700]

As for COS14 well I guess time will be the jury on that one, but if I do not like it and if they give me the choice to stay on 99 or 08 or whatever COS I am on, then I will make my choice knowing that I did not push other drowning men under to better my own position.

This statement just proves that you are really over your head on this discussion. You are not grasping the point that others, including myself, have brought up in this discussion.

We are not doing this to keep COS08 people down, we are doing this to prevent further degradation to COS99. You, have already given up on COS99 and are spreading for the COS08 and SLS pineapple. I haven't, and neither will many others here, that is why our opinions are so different. You are willing to get robbed 100$ and are very happy to get back 25$. I have simply kept my wallet closed so that I can hang on to my 100$ for as long as I can. I am preventing, while you are facilitating. Big difference.

As far as having a life, you might be wrong on that. You join this discussion, as others have, and then insult us by saying we have no life. That is very hypocritical of you. You want to join this discussion but believe that you are too good for it? That explains why your view is so skewed. :hmm: You lack consistency and the foresight to see how this improvement to COS08 is really a degradation to your current COS - I can't explain it to you any clearer.

So, as you say, lets agree to disagree and you can return to your busy life, no need to waste your opinion on here anymore. This will give you more time to prepare for your "date" with management. I recommend you bring lube and lots of liquor, it will hurt less. Wish I could tell you how bad it will feel, but I haven't stooped to your level and never will, so you are on your own. Of you go. :D

[iceman50]

Fortunately Sqwak7700 you will be in the minority and your continued sexual references only destroy your arguments - grow up.:rolleyes:

[Flap10]

Fortunately Sqwak7700 you will be in the minority


Possibly, but his point is extremely valid. Ironic how the same people that are quick to protect the AoA, and preach unity, are the same people that will throw in the towel and quickly accept a new CoS, and then come up with lame excuses to justify their actions, my favorite being, "it is the best we can get under the circumstances", how many times has that been said on this forum throughout the last ten years.

[Sqwak7700]

Fortunately Sqwak7700 you will be in the minority...

I'd hate to piss on your parade, but I don't think this minority will be as minor as you think. I'm not the only one that thinks the union caved, and is suspicious as to why we are voting on improvements to the crappier deal.


...and your continued sexual references only destroy your arguments - grow up.

Sorry that my references to sexual discomfort make you feel uneasy. Think of it as training for what is to come your way when you accept these crappy deals.

And in the future, unless you are gonna contribute to the original post / subject, take your criticisms to another "the AOA is doing the best they can" threads.

The question in this thread was why we are voting on this improvement. I don't believe the AOA's argument that it is "contractual". If that was the case, then why isn't the COS08 up for a membership vote? That was negotiated with the union, so why is it any different than the "improvements" that where negotiated? It just doesn't make any sense. Instead of jumping to the AOA's defense why don't you question why this is so?

Maybe it is because if we had a vote on COS08 the majority would shoot it down in flames and the small minority that stands to loose less from this deal would be left with nothing. It will be interesting to find out how the AOA president and GC members vote on COS08 on the 18th of May. :hmm:

[IFB]

7700 - The reason I have decided to join this thread is because people like you seem hell bent on screwing over the more junior members already on COS 08 and anybody thinking of changing over for whatever valid reason they may have. This issue is unlike many of the rantings on PPRUNE and thus very important.

We are not doing this to keep COS08 people down, we are doing this to prevent further degradation to COS99.

You say you do not want too keep those on 08 down, but that is exactly what you are doing. If you do not like the deal being offered then fine stay on 99 and say no to SLS. That is your choice and if it suits you then great, best of luck. What I am saying is do not F:mad:K it up for those without a choice. By voting No to the AoA you are in danger of reducing the proposed COS 08 considerably, but you will be on COS 99 and thus your COS will not change. You have nothing to lose by remaining on 99 but others with no choice will lose a great deal due to your selfish actions

Like I said in my first post your attitude is:

"I can stay on the COS that suits me best but Fhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifK the rest of you wankhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gifs who were stupid enough to join on/switch to COS 08"

Seems that you want to push the pinapple up the A:mad:S of those without a choice!

Like I said that office on the third floor is calling!

[Sqwak7700]

You keep repeating yourself. What you need to do is read the posts. I told you, my reasons, I'm not gonna repeat myself again, you obviously have problems reading.

The people that joined or will join COS08 made their choice, they had an option, so they are not "helpless". They made their choice and now you expect me to take a hit to improve their conditions? I am all for improvements to all conditions of service.

I'm sure you won't be supporting an improvement to COS99 that disadvantages your precious COS08. You would do the same, and it all basically depends on which side of the fence you stand.

[IFB]

So you DO want new joiners to fight your battles! Like they had an option to choose which COS they joined on. . . . . T**T.

Don't tell me in your opinion they should have stayed on the dole rather than take a job with cx.

The point is YOU are not taking a hit. They are.:ugh: All you have to do to improve their already inferior COS is support the AoA's recomendation, nothing else. You will still have your superior COS 99 a fact that will not change no matter what you do:ugh:

Are you the old GMA?

[Sqwak7700]

You are still not reading the posts

:ugh:

[goathead]

IFB
I concur
You are still not reading the posts
:ugh:

[IFB]

7700 - As requested, but not required, I have re-read your posts and can conclude you are indeed a man of principle. Your long term aim appears to be the improvement of COS for all. A nobel cause, unfortunatly you goal is achieved by sarificing the new joiners improvements to their COS, whilst you risk nothing.

The people that joined or will join COS08 made their choice, they had an option, so they are not "helpless".As you have not yet provided an answer could you please tell all those new joiners on COS 08 what you consider their choices were?

[Sqwak7700]

As you have not yet provided an answer could you please tell all those new joiners on COS 08 what you consider their choices were?

I don't think that battle should be fought by new-joiners. That is similar to the hiring ban, which while it kept some away, it did not work.

It was always our responsibility to prevent COS08 from happening, and the fight is still not over. Only a small minority is on COS08 and we can stop that minority from growing, that is my strategy. Bringing improvements to COS08 only gets more people to take the trap.

In todays economic climate it is impossible to negotiate a good deal. Why do you think that the company is trying to force this ****t deal down our throat? They only have a little longer before the recovery starts gaining traction, that is why the timeline is so short. They know that they won't have a leg to stand on in a couple of months.

And once it does turn around we could use the shortage of pilots to our advantage. We are still understaffed, which is proven by the fact that they haven't assigned contractual leave. You honestly think that SLS will equate to time off for anyone? Wrong, why do you think they have this bull****t ghosted credit? Why not get the regular 2hrs credit? Because they plan on abusing it, that is why. And the flight pay you will get back in return is a token you won't even notice. Not when you are taking such a significant pay cut.

Both deals are ****t, and seeing others willingly accept them makes me feel like I am in an episode of "The Twilight Zone". :ugh:

[IFB]

In agreement with you about SLS, never said otherwise, perhaps you are not reading my posts! But once again you still have not answered the question about new joiners on COS 08.

What do you consider their choices were?

As you have said a hiring ban probably would not have worked, but more importantly there was not one in place anyway.

You're right that in these conditions it would be imposible to negotiate a good deal and thus I can only conclude that you feel the AOA secured improvements are therefore a great achievement! As for the recovery again only time will tell if your prediction is correct. However, would you bet a large portion of your COS on that assumption, because that is what you are expecting the new joiners on COS 08 to do on your behalf:=

Now please stop acting like a politician and answer the question.

[Sqwak7700]

However, would you bet a large portion of your COS on that assumption, because that is what you are expecting the new joiners on COS 08 to do on your behalf

That is exactly what you are doing by taking COS08, genius!

I don't expect the new joiners to fight my battles, I already told you that. You are acting like a politician in that you don't listen / read :ugh:

I'm sure you will be voting yes to the "improvements" - in quotes because we haven't actually seen the text yet, so technically, they don't even exist. I will be voting a big fat NO to protect all of the pilots that are still on COS99, which are the majority of the group. Don't understand why that is so hard for you to understand. :ugh:

The new joiners are just unlucky that they joined under those conditions, but surely they should have known that joining on lower COS there would be differences of opinion when dealing with improvements and changes. Just as I knew that joining in B scale I would have a different opinion than a pilot who is still under the A scale. Plain and simple (I understand that you disagree IFB, so no need to keep telling me that).

Now, back to the main discussions. How do other COS99 officers feel about these improvements? How will you vote, and why? (Note: this question is for COS99 officers, if you are on COS08, you don't need to express why you would vote for the improvements)

[canuckster]

NO & NO.
NO brainer.

[IFB]

You really are an idiot. I have already told you I am on 99, so it would seem you have the problem with reading. As for changing to 08, well again like I have already said I am undecided, but I will not disadvantage the new joiners if I do decide to stay on 99.

Once again you have failed to answer my direct question about new joiners on COS 08:

What do you consider their choices were?

I can only presume that the reason you do not answer is because you consider that they should have stayed on the dole rather than join cx and thus prove that you do expect a stranger to fight your battles by sacrificing their future at this company for your benefit. And you have the front to suggest others grow a backbone! Maybe you should grow some balls of your own first!

You could always quit cx in protest against the company's tactics because if as you say the recovery is just around the corner then you leaving would cause them problems. That way when they knock on your door begging you to return you tell can them to shove COS 08 and that you will only re-join if they give you and everybody else COS 99. No doubt the company will cave to your superior point of view, but if they don't you can be secure in the knowledge that you are in no worse a position than those who you expect to stay on the dole on your behalf.

No point in arguing with an idiot, especially one who does not give a damn about anybody else!:yuk:

[Sqwak7700]

Thanks Canuckster, any others on COS99?

[cluin44]

Staying on cos99. No to SLS paycut. AOA no way too gay.

[crewsunite]

No SLS Stay 99 - Though i'm for AoA but they have sold a fast one this time!


May Day you do make sure good points
I have been following some of the things you say.

Though its very emotive at the moment, you do make sure good points.

For example: A scalers (Our fearless leaders & roll models)
Reaching 55 have three choices as I see it

1) Retire & enjoy a good life with some youth remaining.

2) Remain working on A scale till RA65 if the CX does not offer it. Put up a fight (Legally 1st then with other forms of lobbying & pressure)
If all of you including trainers etc do the same then CX would have little choice as they need you as NR said. You are also more in a position to put up a fight than the rest of us. You should have paid off houses & kids grown up etc.
(CMD extensions this way we are proctected by BPP & we'll all benefit from RA65 if we really need to work longer)

3) Sign Cos08 and effectively "take a new job" almost like a DEC taking away CMD from JNR crew. You'll be selling yourselves to a cheaper deal at our expense! Thus by choosing the 3rd option gives us little hope for the future.
You also take away alot of hope and asperations and fuelling some bitterness.

Life sucks when our kids are at school overseas and we cannot get basis.
While you on your base enjoying clean air & fishing in between your holiday job which pays for your mansions renovations & that new BMW bike. If you are really professional demand pay for experience! Demand the same contract.
You'll find most have no problem with that. In fact you'll make us really proud.

And that's maybe why May day & the Likes are so MAD!
If we're a team choose option 2) Fight for a solid victory. As our leaders & roll models help set the bar at a high level you'll have more leverage than us! If you really care.

Anyway's like many others my brain is stressed out big time & has been effected by all this emotion.

http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/nerd.gif

Last say: Why the rush? Try and delay COS08 until more clarification.
A NO vote may mean a better deal for all incl Cos99 in more favourable times.

OR why not have another option on a VOTE with guys saying:
a) I agree with Cos08
b) I don't agree with Cos08
c) I suggest xyz in no more than 30 words.

They be saying the No's there & then more likely to put a YES tick where you desire!