Dumb and Dumber: A Tale of Two Unions.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the air, the summer season is upon us and, regular as clockwork, the unsavoury minions of IALPA, the Aer Lingus pilot's union and BLAPA, the mutual masturbation society of the Atlantic Barons of Hounslow, are rattling their sabres yet again. In case of the former, I have such a tale to tell as to beggar belief. A story of such consummate stupidity, that even to a seasoned connoisseur of hubris such as myself, it is surely one for the history books. More on that at another time.

In case of the latter, BLAPA, excuse me, BALPA, has rode into town on a white charger, baiting their hooks this time with "dignity and respect". Apparently, we at Ryanair have none, and they claim to deliver it, in exchange for the requisite £1000 fee, of course. What's got 'em all lathered into a frenzy this time is that after years of taking money from Ryanair pilots and doing nothing in return, or in other words, standard operating procedure for all NON-British Airways pilots, they've been persuaded to whip the troops into a frenzy of discontent just as the major money making season comes into view, during the greatest recession to strike our industry since Orville and Wilbur went three-axial at Kitty Hawk.

The good people of BLAPA have even published, in recent days, a terrific five-page extravaganza of what they claim to be able to deliver in return for all those membership fees. It is so riddled with falsehoods and inaccuracies it might well have been produced by the North Koreans, but certain aspects on page 4 can’t go without comment.

http://www.repaweb.org/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=60

This petition is totally confidential and throughout the
recognition process absolutely no personal details will
be shared with Ryanair

This is demonstrably untrue. In BLAPA’s last of many failures when endeavouring to tell British Airways management what they could and couldn’t do to be competitive with Open Skies, previously known as Project Lauren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Lauren), the ensuing court case in the High Court of England, which found in favour of BA, all names and details of individual BLAPA members were handed over to the judge for consideration and as such are on the public record.

If you feel compelled to join the BLAPA circus, then by all means! Personally, I’d prefer a filthy weekend in Vegas for my £1000 BLAPA subscription, but don’t for a moment believe their lies that you’re protected and anonymous. You aren’t.

And so, ladies and gentlemen, a challenge. I ask for experience based contributions demonstrating the relative merits of BLAPA/IALPA membership, and as their counterpoint, divergent opinion demonstrating their overwhelming destructive potential, either intentional or as is too often observed, incidental.

Over to you.

[Re-Heat]

I don't know exactly to what you refer regarding this particular legal case, but you imply that membership details can be freely Googled online. This is not the case. Court records are expensive items to purchase, and even if such details were disclosed to the judge in the case, are not necessarily required to be part of the court record that can be recovered by transcript.

I shall leave it to others to glide through your other numerous inaccuracies.

[rubik101]

I thought you'd gone fishing?

[Cloud Bunny]

What a load of tosh. Posts like this really are encouraging, they really are shi**ing themselves over this aren't they? Excellent. Keep those signatures coming boys and girls!! One day this will be a proper airline!

[thebeast]

all names and details of individual BLAPA members were handed over to the judge for consideration and as such are on the public record.


Sounds very similar to the scare stories being banded around by Ryanair Base Captains....but surely if respect and dignity exists in the company already theres nothing to be afriad of about joining a union anyway


All Ryr pilots sign the petition for :mad: sake

[potkettleblack]

I thought you'd gone fishing?

Wasn't it unpaid leave? Oh no thats just their pilots, not management.

[bluepilot]

excellent!!!! by the tone of the post Ryanair are rattled! Long may it continue!

BTW the Ryanair propaganda machine is really showing signs of weakness now by posting this drivel. Its about time the evil Pikey and his cronies got a well deserved kick in the nuts!

[McBruce]

we at Ryanair have noneCouldn't have put it better myself...

[charlies angel]

Just for some accuracy:ok:
Year1 BALPA Membership = .5%x basic salary per year,then 66% tax deductible.
Ryr f/o @£30000 pa with a tailwind
Try and keep up with the math Loe :E
.5% x £30000=£150 per year then reduce by 66% = £50 per year
If you're still keeping up Lee that makes £4 per month
Agreed it will soar to £8 pm in year 2 and then to a probably totally unaffordable £12 pm from year 3 onwards.
Did they use your calculator to put about that us lazy pilots only work 18 hours a week:suspect:
Before you take your socks off Leroy, if you remember, 900hrs/50 weeks at work:O as put about by the truthful and respected Ryr head shed.

"£1000 a year to join BLAPA,it's :mad:' true I tell ya it's :mad: true."
Have a lie down love:p

[PENKO]

Leo, a thousand words, a million rants, yet still I have no idea what you are talking about. Your title has no relation to your post. You promise us a story but all you come up with is a judge who knows who is in BALPA.

Blimey.

[Zippy Monster]

Leo, in the words of the inimitable Mrs. Richards from that episode of Fawlty Towers,

"...what ARE you talking about, you silly little man?"

[FreeBird1106]

to quote your own self Leo, un-:mad:ingbelievable, never let the facts come in the way of Molly's and the union busters little script, innit?

As explained above, BALPA's membership is nowhere close to your figure. Actually, I tell you what, I really wish it was £1,000 pa. That would actually mean that a skipper in RYR would be earning £100,000+ basic.. nice one clown!!

What's your alternative then? Send those new cadets to BRK, with good old Uncle Dec' locking them in with the only "authorised" accountants, you know, his buddies with their 3% cut on your gross salary for fictional and dodgy services? So, let me have a look, according to you the F/O's are paid £7K a month, £84,000 pa, wow, not bad... so 3% of that will be going to DD Ltd, for the modest sum of £2,520 !!!!!!

You're a total lunatic my friend. Lunatic, lunatic, where did I hear this before? That's right, it's coming back now... 2003, STN, my pigeonhole, signed by WB (or.. was it signed?)... it also talked about that filthy weekend in Vegas, you guys have an obsession with filth..

You wouldn't just be using the same old tune again, would you? Surely you're paying those union busters enough money for them to come up with something new, no?

https://www.balpa.org/RyanairPetition.aspx

[Doug the Head]

Undermining unions, undercutting T&C's of other airlines, and then thinking you are king of the hill.

How dumb can one get...? :ugh:

T&C's are relative I suppose, just like intelligence... :rolleyes:

[Dunhovrin]

Leo Hairy Camel: I'm Clearly A Hoe.

Sorry couldn't resist. Err.. Charlie's Angle: 66% Tax Deductible means you get the tax back on 66% of your fees ie 40%(ish) of £100 not £100. But otherwise I concur.

[the grim repa]

Now we are getting just a glint of the camels true colours,the bullying,intimidation and barefaced lies.As we have long known,he is no other ther the "mad mullah from mullingar" himself,desperate to prevent his eeeeevil little empire from facing the union across the table.Maybe you could put up your diatribe about "joining the taliban" rather than join BALPA that we had from you a few years back.

Tha tactic is blatant ryanair with the help of its union busting consultants that they pay so much money to.The attempt is to INTIMIDATE and BULLY.Attack the young lambs by telling them it is going to cost an arm and a leg to join an association,(or if union recognition is imposed then all contracts will revert to 1984 levels).wheresas the truth is that under union recognition it will cost the company to pay proper terms and conditions.

The next tactic is to tell flight crew we can find out who you are (and we will come and get you).Newsflash,i am here over 10 years and they ain't even got close to me.They cannot find out identities,it is more of their lies.

Await more of leo's BULLYING and INTIMIDATION tactics,we in ryanair have seen this many times when the company is ****ting themselves.It is now being made public,because they khow that pprune is effective in spreading the truth and they want to shut all avenues of communication for pilots.

"who do you think you are kidding mr leo,if you think we are on the run"?

Master stroke petition,tic toc,tic toc.

[Whitstle_Blower]

You have to love the total arse that comes out this guy's mouth!


So, how many of the BA pilots that were involved in your story sacked after the being 'publicly identified'?
Your statement about details being passed to the judge, and becoming public knowledge afterwards are total rubbish! Think of any major court case where someone's information is classed as 'sensitive'. No one finds out who these people are.
If these are public knowledge, YOU show us the proof. You put a list of ALL PILOTS that were on the document handed over to the judge into ALL the pilot's pigeon holes in the UK bases. I can tell you know, I know at least 20+ people in BA, and I know who, and how many of them signed. So it will be interesting to see if this happens.

(Re-Heat - It doesn't matter how much it costs to get a copy of the transcripts. If there was to be any useful info on there, like the list of names, then Ryanair management would spend that little bit of money, but most likely steal it, and publish it anoymously of course into general circulation to try and scare the pilots.)

And with regards to your £1000 to be part of BALPA. Are you having a laugh. That would mean basic salary of well over £100,000. Seriously. Maybe the Base Captain of STN, with his constant memos telling Line Captains to 'bend the rules' to get his fuel bonus up, might be on that, but then again, all the old Irish boys stick together.

I don't actually think you know what you are talking about, or you have anything to do with Ryanair management. If so, prove you are that irritating Irish, former cornershop running, ex-KPMG (and you wonder why they do all the vote auditing!!??) muff-haired tool. Make something public on here just before it is announced to the world by media or the amazing internal (vanishing) memo system.
Besides, I thought you were away laying Tarmac on someone's drive? Did you get the dodgy job done early?

www.balpa.org/RyanairPetition.aspx - Ryanair

Trades Union Congress - (http://www.tuc.org.uk/agencyworksurvey) - Brookfield

[SD.]

Any publicity is good publicity.

Even if it is Micko spurting bull about BALPA, at least it's got the pprune community talking about the petition again. :D:D

[Speevy]

So Mol are you so much worried?
I would say almost you look almost terrified!
Otherwise why would spend so much time on this forum trying to stop the unstoppable..

Good luck to all you guys in FR, let's hope you succeed this time!

This is only the beginning..

Speevy

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Well Good Evening, Whisleblower, and what a pleasure it is to make your acquaintance in particular.
If so, prove you are that irritating Irish, former cornershop running, ex-KPMG (and you wonder why they do all the vote auditing!!??) muff-haired tool. Make something public on here just before it is announced to the world by media
Ok, WB, you asked for it.

Once upon a time, a long time ago, there was a struggling, once proud Irish Airline called Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus plodded along for years and years, sucking furiously on the teat of the Irish state, immune for such inconveniences as fiscal responsibility and competition. The pilots had a union, called IALPA, lead by a no-neck, polyester Dwarf called Evan Cullen. Perhaps you've heard of him?

The flight attendants had a union, the baggage handlers had a union, the check in staff had a union, heck even the catering division had a union. The catering division is especially noteworthy because, when the catering division was done away with due to unrestrained cost that tested the limits of even Aer Lingus' bountiful management, the union insisted that all those workers turn up, and get paid for doing, wait for it, absolutely nothing at all.

Then, one horrible day, the government sold off a large chunk of Aer Lingus and said that it would have to pay its own way in the rude, snooty and hurtful world of commercial real politic, a strange and foreign concept to those 'workers' at Aer Lingus who had, for years, grown fat whilst protected by a giant latex condom (http://www.siptu.ie/) called SIPTU.

Meanwhile, across the car park at Dublin Airport, was a small, squat white building, much much smaller than the grand and imposing facades of Aer Lingus head office that towered above it. It has the word "RYANAIR" in big blue letters across one side of it. Ryanair, sadly, is a company not blessed by the great latex condom of SIPTU, and though some of the Ryanair pilots were members of the Aer Lingus union, not much ever happened. Ryanair got on with the job of making money and taking tens of millions of passengers profitably around Europe and gave jobs to thousands of pilots who would otherwise be flipping burgers and driving taxis, or eating dog in South Korea. Aer Lingus, meanwhile, lost money like a drunken sailor and prepared for the launching of its stock on the open market, pleased that the public would thrill to owning a small piece of such a great, Irish success story as Aer Lingus and the great latex condom of SIPTU that had, for years, protected it.

But then, the unthinkable happened! The evil sorcerer who runs Ryanair made a lightning raid on the Aer Lingus stock on day one, and commenced proceedings for an hostile take over at €2.80 a share. The no-neck polyester Dwarf of IALPA fancied himself as a match of the evil sorcerer at Ryanair and the pair famously met on an Irish television show where the Dwarf was eaten for breakfast and made out as the fool his mammy had always told him he'd become, in front of millions and across the world. This was too much for the little Dwarf, though, and when partially recovered from his resultant quivering rage, he hatched a cunning plan. A plan of such cunningness, that the evil sorcerer would be thwarted in his attempt to take over Aer Lingus, and better still, Mullingar Mandrake would be made to rue the day he's exposed the Dwarf on the tellie, and called him a failed pilot.

Hell hath no fury like a Dwarf Scorned.

The Dwarf summoned all his eager pilots together by the light of a full moon one night and said, "Listen lads, we've gotta stop this :mad: O'Leary, or well all completely :mad:, roit! I started dis ting called TAILWIND as a moity stroocture to stop da coont in his tracks, like." The Dwarf was glowing with rage, and so the pilots all listened as he went on.

"Yez have arl gotta hand over da yoyos to stop dat coont O'Leary. Oyl be takin' €55 touzan from da captains, and terty foiv touzan from da eff-ohs, so I will. Yez have arl gotta pony up da yoyo's, and dem dat don't will be sent to :mad:in' Coventry, right, so :mad:' hand it over."

And the pilots did. Those that could got the funds straight away, for Aer Lingus was nothing if not a generous employer, and others mortgaged their houses. What the Dwarf didn't tell the pilots though, was that even after all this lolly was gathered together, the Dwarf was short of what he needed to make an impact on the ':mad:', something the poor little Dwarf had been embarrassed with all his life and so he struck a dreadful bargain with the devil of leveraged financial instruments.

Still with me, Whistleblower? It gets more interesting from here, so you might want to look away. After laying down all the pilots hard earned savings as 20% of the total he needed to penetrate deep, deeeeeeep within the recesses of the evil sorcerer, he borrowed the rest, the 80% of the rest, and then bought shares in Aer Lingus at various prices in the high €2 mark, and rested back on his tiny haunches, satisfied that he'd stopped the sorcerer once and for :mad:in' all.

The first hostile take over failed and the Mandrake of Mullingar, the evil sorcerer slinked back to his white building and got on with making money and hiring loads of pilots, some of whom were straight out of flight school. For days and days, all you could hear was the tiny, high-pitched giggles of the self-satisfied Dwarf who'd slayed wicked Mandrake with his cunning, cunning plan.

But then, the share price dropped. And dropped and dropped and dropped. It seems the markets didn't know about the power of the great latex condom of SIPTU. "Stupid share market", said the Dwarf.

The market dropped and the Aer Lingus pilot’s investment in themselves became more and more worthless. Oh well, it was only €55,000 per captain and €35,000 per FO. Not that much at the end of the day. Isn't that right, Whistleblower. Unfortunately, the thing about leveraged investments, or margin investing, as the Dwarf and all the pilots were soon to discover, is that the bigger the margin, the bigger the responsibility when it all goes pear-shaped, and pear shaped it DID go.

Mandrake made another hostile bid for Aer Lingus, which was slowly consuming itself within the protective custody of the great latex condom of SIPTU, offering €1.40 this time, and just like the first attempt, it was at a great premium to the market price. Alas, Mandrake failed again and again the Dwarf giggled, even though by this time his was sitting on cumulative losses of over €67.2 million of other people's money.

These days, the shares are worth €.56 cents and the banks who loaned the Dwarf all this money to skewer Mandrake, wanted it back because, out of nowhere, all the money left the world and those that had lent it in the good times, wanted it all back now. All the pilots, all of them, have now been forced to sign personal guarantees involving their houses and other assets they'd spent a lifetime accumulating in the hope that one day, the Aer Lingus share price will rise back up to the high €2 mark so they can break even and look forward to a retirement free of worry.

Asked whether there'll be a third attempt, Mullingar Mandrake was heard do say. "Nah, :mad: 'em. Let 'em burn."

Aer Lingus, rather bravely, put the great latex condom of SIPTU on its board, and feeling left out, the Dwarf approached the late, lamented Dermot Mannion, one-time CEO of Aer Lingus, and said he too wanted a seat on the board. Mr. Mannion wiped away his tears after a time and smiled down upon the Dwarf and asked if he was on crack.

Evan Cullen has presided over the greatest betrayal of trust and has personally engineered the greatest financial ruin of represented pilots in the history of organised labour. Evidently dissatisfied with this blistering apotheosis of failure, he has in recent days, personally contacted the head of the Large Cases Division of the Irish Revenue Commissioners, and dropped all the contract pilots who work for Mandrake of Mullingar, up to their nostrils in shyte.

All this from the head of a pilot union, ladies and gentlemen, who seeks to reassure you of the benevolence of BLAPA/IALPA whilst pleading for your support under the guise of giving you all a free suppository of 'dignity and respect' and at the same time, blowing a whistle, as I'm sure the dwarf might well put it, on fellow pilots to the Irish tax office.

Will that do for now, Whistleblower?

There's more, of course, but that is a story for another day.

[Spartacan]

>>and gave jobs to thousands of pilots who would otherwise be flipping burgers and driving taxis, or eating dog in South Korea.<<

MOL, will you tell us just one thing about yourself please? Why do you choose to work in an industry where you quite obviousy have no respect for your colleagues?

[charlies angel]

Leo
I do sympathise and can see where your anger and vitriol comes from if you were shafted for @$55000 (can't do euro sign..sorry), I really do.
Its ironic, however, that you appear intent on allowing everybody in your company to be undervalued and taken advantage of due to your loss and personal sense of grievance.
We've all been swindled or lost out in share schemes,bonus schemes etc etc by the corporate trough dwellers over the years, but most try to move on and change inadequacies perceived in "the system".
If yer man at IALPA is an arse then put in a vote of no confidence,present a case and hey presto he'll be gone, and you might just feel a little less bitter.
You're not a woman ( scorned ) are you?:E

[Whitstle_Blower]

Leo, likewise a pleasure.

That was a certainly interesting tale. I am sure your children must love bed time as you do the voices so well!
However, I must get to the point that your tale has no real point. The only thing I really got from it that was actually of any real value, is that Ryanair got on with the job of making money and taking tens of millions of passengers profitably around Europe So what you are saying is that Ryanair is profitable. Seems strange then that the pilots, (both contract and employed), are being made to take a pay cut, while I am sure the share holders will be patting themselves on the back, and making sure MOL gets extra special "beds and blowjobs", (a master-class in press conferencing I must admit).
With regards to he has in recent days, personally contacted the head of the Large Cases Division of the Irish Revenue Commissioners, and dropped all the contract pilots who work for Mandrake of Mullingar, up to their nostrils in shyte why would these pilots be in trouble? If they are truly not employed by BRK or RYR as both companies claim, then Ryanair, DD, and the pilots have nothing to fear wouldn't you say? Each pilot is employed individually, so hardly a reason for "Large Case Division" to get involved. The only problem would be if those pilots are not classed as self employed or of their own Ltd company. This causes BIG BIG problems for RYR and BRK. The only time the pilots would be in trouble is if they are not doing their tax properly, and if you ask me, I would say "more fool them". The rules are the rules. The law is the law. There are 2 things certain in life, Tax and Death. If you are not paying Tax......:=

So, we are back to my original point. You have told us things of the past. You have told us things of the present. Mr Evil Sorcerer, Sir, please do tell us things of the future. What is in store for all of the pilots that should be so grateful to be working for Ryanair. Do tell us why, if the company is making money, pilots are forced to take Unpaid leave, and not be granted the agreed pay deal.

I think that you will find that it is not all about the money. The pilots wanted to be treaded like the asset they are. Respected for the job they do, and not treaded like children.

I get the feeling that should MOL ever be on an aircraft that has a major emergency, no matter what happens, the cabin crew and pilots who were their handling the situation would not even get a thank you. It would be looked upon as 'part of the job', and therefore requires no recognition. Any crew member will tell you, that in the event of a major emergency, you know you have earned every penny of your salary up until then. The fact you saved 1-195 lives is worth more then those 6 peoples entire lifetime's income put together. That is the issue.
The fact that management are more interested in bonus's and bottom lines then the people that strive everyday to make sure the aircraft leaves 97% 'shall we call that on time.......:ok:???' just so management figures are up to scratch, and the company league tables look good against all the other airlines.

MOL, don't forget, if every letter of THAT book was followed, and pilots turned up in the crewroom 45 mins before off blocks, and had to deal with only 3 printers working in the WHOLE of the STN crewroom, those planes would NEVER leave on time. Be glad you have people that are willing to put in that extra bit here and there, that they are technically not getting paid for because soon, they will start a go slow, a work to rule, and only taking min block fuel, you watch late departure and arrival times rocket, people not requesting or accepting en-route short cuts, diversions due fuel because there is a 5 min delay at the destination,. Your share holder profits will fall through the floor. And for what, because you don't want to show a little respect and grace to your employees. It will cost more in the long run than a little Dignity and Respect. It isn't to late to change the outcome that is getting closer and closer.
Bullies often win the battle, right up until the victims bigger and stronger brother turns up. Keep pushing the pilots, and they WILL unite. Maybe not under BALPA, but they will pull together and hurt you more then you can hurt them.

And one final thing if I can. There is a 'T' in the name. It is there for a reason.

WhiTstle Blower

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

http://www.zmag.org/FCKFiles/image//apr09graphics/Chamberlain-NAMToon-Big.gif

[Dan Winterland]

Or another point of view.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/Chamberlain-NAMToon-Big.gif

Factoid: An anagram of Leo Hairy Camel is Michael O'Leary.

[Spartacan]

>>Factoid: An anagram of Leo Hairy Camel is Michael O'Leary<<

Guessed that.

When you decided to run Herb Kelleher's brilliant low cost model did you not think to ape his approach to staff relations?

[rubik101]

I always thought that LHC was an anal appendage of MOL's. Surely they can't be one and the same, can they? The anagram is just too easy, from an on-line site I wouldn't wonder. And still he doggedly and unswervingly repeats the lies about the BA union, not caring that the statistics show they were a minority in BALPA even in the 70s! His lying rant about Monarch and the Sicilian Mafia goes unanswered because that has also been pointed out to him as being false, but still he batters on with his lies. Repeat a lie often enough and some will eventually believe it, or so he seems to think.
Ace Homely Liar would suit him better as this is patently what he/they actually do best.
But, yes, you're right, it could be him! I see it now in his ranting diatribes and the use of such arcane and apparently erudite words as apotheosis, curiously and perhaps mistakenly used in this context, but letting slip his study of theology and his seminary background perhaps?
If ranting was an OU degree course, MOL and his attachment would both be eligible for a First!
Doing nothing will change nothing.
Doing something, signing the petition, will at least begin a process of change. The obvious conclusion to be drawn from these rants, that MOL/LHC is or are **** scared of a union, any union getting a toehold in Ryanair, should be all the more incentive to ensure that the vote is overwhelmingly in favour. Union membership and subsequent dealings will follow at a painstaking pace, but at least they will be in place. They will lead somewhere and if the pilots at least gain a little dignity and respect, traits so obviously lacking in the MOL/LHC duopoly, then the vote will have achieved something positive, at least.

[the grim repa]

Now we are beggining,just beginning to see the REAL ryanair.The EMBITTERED,BULLYING,INTIMIDATORY,BULLYING,HARSH,THIEVING,LYI NG(i could go on and on).

Now even resorting to posting UNION BUSTING cartoons on pprune to try and intimidate the pilots.I always knew we would be able to tease out the true picture of what lies(pun) beneath the management of ryanair.Try to divert the attention away from ryanair onto aer lingus,what a pathetic tactic.if this is what you are paying the UNION BUSTERS so much money for,then once again,another poor investment by the schlong in the glass mausoleum at head office.

why pay UNION BUSTERS to deprive your workers,why not just pay proper terms and conditions.why not treat your workers with DIGNITY and RESPECT?

UNION RECOGNITION will deliver respect and dignity.Two things that all money and terms aside,the management of ryanair would love to see the pilot body deprived of.Why,because like all megalomaniac dictators.it rises above just money and becomes more about subjugating the people,depriving them of a VOICE and using them,then casting them aside.

[potkettleblack]

It clearly hurts Leo that the AL pilots decided to take a stand against you then? Thing is the pilots wouldn't give a toss about losing the money if it gave them a chance of stopped your lot from sacking them and offering their BRK contracts and a nice base at one of your less popular destinations in deepsest darkest Europe. Sorry that no one fell for the PR sh*te that was spout about FR "saving" Aer Lingus. The cash is sunk now and long gone. Gee at only 50c a share and you dumping more to drive the price down then its a veritable bargain. Perhaps the pilots and staff of Aer Lingus should be buying up more and really slamming your face in the door.

Somehow I don't think the Irish government shares your views on the best interests for Irelands transport strategy but keep going with the spin.

[Caractacus]

When I read Leo HC's initial post, I had a distinct feeling of deja vu. I wondered where I'd heard that kind of disdainful, arrogant, self-serving claptrap before.

LHC needs to change the tape - he's well past his sell by date and has ended up as a real old yawn.

[CamelhAir]

So micko needs a distraction? What from one wonders? Let me see, how about June 2nd when the meltdown to the scumair business model will have to be revealed?
The aircraft trading business has finished, the model is in pieces. But what of the pax business you ask? Rubbish, that part of fr it was only ever minorly profitible and only then when fuel was cheap and fares were high.
Hopefully this will be catalyst to remove micko and appoint someone to repair the destruction of shareholder value and restore the business model to something workable.

[Propellerhead]

FACT: Pilot's terms and conditions are better in unionized airlines.
FACT: BALPA is an extremely modern, progressive union that works extremely effectively WITH management to come up with sensible, negotiated solutions to problems that both parties are satisfied with. This ensures a profitable, sustainable company that secures its pilot's futures whilst maintaining benchmarked, fair rewards for what are often the airline's most highly motivated employees.
FACT: BALPA have not actually gone on strike for many years (I don't know how many but it's at least 10). They have threatened it but only when necessary.
FACT: Airline pilots generally work for an airline for many years, sometimes their whole career, so out of all employee groups have the biggest invested interest in the long term viability and profitability of the company. In contrast most airline executives and CEOs have a much shorter term in the job and are often there to 'hit and run' with terms and conditions.
FACT: BALPA have negotiated some excellent solutions at many UK airlines, not just BA without resorting to strike action.
FACT: BALPA members get back many many times their subscriptions every year in increased terms and conditions.

What are RYR management afraid of? What are RYR pilots afraid of (apart from RYR management)? If RYR pilots join a union they will no longer have to be afraid of the management and not have to put up with their bullying, some might say unsafe, tactics. JUST DO IT!

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

I must get to the point that your tale has no real point.
ON the contrary, Whistle Blower, the truth is you choose to ignore the point. Under your leadership, whoops, sorry about that, under the leadership of Evan-the poisoned pygmy-Cullen, the IALPA membership of Aer Lingus has been intimidated into investing in the doomed Tailwind scandal, and because these moneys were used to make leveraged investments of Aer Lingus stock, a stock which has plummeted in value, they are not only looking at losses of their initial investments, but many, many, MANY multiples of it, since the ‘strategy’ has proved to be naught but a squalid, ignominious failure. My conservative estimates put that at over €500,000 for every man and woman flying for Aer Lingus who was dumb enough to invest in Tailwind in the first place. You must be so proud!

Undeterred by this fiasco, IALPA intends this week to march into the office of the Taoiseach and demand the state makes up your grotesque shortfall in Aer Lingus pension funds! I can only imagine the colourful language that'll fly from Leinster House that day! Do me a favour, Whistleblower. Take a video recorder and put in on Youtube afterwards, will you?

You just don't get it, do you. Incompetence and rank, unbridled stupidity cannot be eclipsed or hidden by bellicose attempts at recruiting by IALPA and your friends across the water in Perfidious Albion. I can only shake my head in disbelief at the shortsightedness in reporting Ryanair pilots to the revenue authorities of the UK and Ireland, and yes ladies and gentlemen, this has indeed been done by your friends and mine, those stalwart supporters of the working pilot, IALPA and BLAPA.

The tax compliance question will be resolved in short order. The much, much more interesting question, is just what sort of support you expect to receive in return from the contractors at Ryanair, and you and I both know they're not an insignificant number, to put it mildly, when the truth comes out that you and BLAPA have grassed them up to the authorities?

Have you thought this through, boys? I mean, your strength only ever comes from an implicit threat to strike. Just how effective do you think that position will be when your striking members are home earning nothing but BLAPA gratitude, and Ryanair runs on regardless with BRK contractors, tax compliant every one, all of whom have very, VERY long memories?

Dignity and Respect my arse! You’re seeking to draw a blind over your own hubristic stupidity, and BLAPA’s unique lack of fitness for purpose.

[Tooloose]

Nonsense. Not worth replying to.

[bluepilot]

Bye Bye Mol

[Cloud Bunny]

Agree, utter nonsense. However it is wonderful to read, you can almost feel the utter desperation and like a classic bully has nothing constructive to say other than making threats when backed into a corner. If LHC is a member or members of FR management I get a warm feeling reading his/their posts as they know his/their time is very nearly up. I've said it before, FR could be one of the best jobs there is - lets make it so!:D

[ItsAjob]

The fact that Ryanair is being grassed up about tax dodging shows what a dodgy back street business is being run.
I hope somebody brings to light the real safety issues happening on line, and brings it to authorities over and obove the IAA, who are living in Ryanair's pocket.

[captplaystation]

ItsAjob,
I would never be one to defend (although I quite understand why a "sharp " management will use them if there is no coordinated resistance :hmm: ) some of the management "techniques" employed within Ryanair
I would be interested however to hear exactly what you have identified as "the real safety issues happening on line" and perhaps tell us where it is any different to any other lo-co, or indeed any other carrier of whatever genre ?

[unablereqnavperf]

Gentlemen back street business or not Leo has made many pilots wealthy over the years I can honestly say BALPA and IALPA have not made many wealthy at all. Ask any Virgin Express Ireland pilot how usefull IFALPA were when they were in trouble there! I think you'll find the words tits and nun used in the same sentance.

Sure Leo is a hard nosed business man and its high time proffesional pilots learn't a little from what Leo says as he is all to well aware of what happens in the harsh world of economics!

You have to admire a man that is able to use one simple sentance to purchase a few million pounds worth of free TV advertising. He did this by just saying "I think we may charge people to use the toilets" and hey presto loads of free prime time TV advertising FOC.

The man is a genius in my opinion a hard arsed bastered, but a genius all the same. Next time you walk into the crew just ignore all the bull**** that the unions are whipping up grab your paper work and go get that jet into the air because thats where it will make money that will in turn be used form your salary.

Unions have a place I agree but when it comes down to hard money I have yet to see a union that has made a real impact! I don't think goood old Arthur Sk lost as much as his miners did in pure financial terms. There is not a union man alive smart enough to outwit Leo he is far to fleet of foot for even the best of them.

I have to say that I have no particular liking for Leo but I do admire his ability to make money and admire how he almost on his own has built Ryanair in to a money making machine. That said I do my best not to have to travel on his airline as I do feel comfortable with how close to the bone things are cut and out of desperation the quality of pilots that have been employed does leave a lot to be desired! There again its difficult to retain the quality when yopu grow so fast!

[captplaystation]

For the avoidance of (the considerable amount of) doubt that appears to have yet again been voiced here, our beloved Leo is not our beloved MOL (nor indeed has he ever claimed to be)
Admire him, he may well (with some justification in CERTAIN areas) do, but he is not one and the same, as those of us who know who he is, and he himself when he is next along, will tell you.
Try and pay attention at the back there won't you ? :hmm:

[Aldente]

Agreed,

Guys - LEO is most certainly not MOL, as one who is closer to him, than he might have realised, I know that for a fact ........



:hmm:

[missterrible]

ON the contrary, Whistle Blower, the truth is you choose to ignore the point. Under your leadership, whoops, sorry about that, under the leadership of Evan-the poisoned pygmy-Cullen, the IALPA membership of Aer Lingus has been intimidated into investing in the doomed Tailwind scandal, and because these moneys were used to make leveraged investments of Aer Lingus stock, a stock which has plummeted in value, they are not only looking at losses of their initial investments, but many, many, MANY multiples of it, since the ‘strategy’ has proved to be naught but a squalid, ignominious failure. My conservative estimates put that at over €500,000 for every man and woman flying for Aer Lingus who was dumb enough to invest in Tailwind in the first place. You must be so proud

If you were correct and say only 200 signed up, that would be a €100,000,000 loss. I don't think so.

The man is a genius in my opinion a hard arsed bastered, but a genius all the same.

Not a mathematical genius though.

[Say again s l o w l y]

It's a great many more than just 200, dear.
Quote:
Not a mathematical genius though.
Stones and glass houses. Shouldn't you be cooking dinner for your husband?

Nice bit of misogyny there. What a lovely fellow you are.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

http://www.animatedgif.net/funny/billtoon_e0.gif (http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/372663-ask-not-what-your-union-can-do-you-discuss.html)

[Wig Wag]

I have one very good reason for supporting BALPA these days - namely that they are putting up a stout fight against UK ID Cards. We should be grateful for that on both sides of the Irish Sea. If the UK Government gets it's way with ID Cards and the National Identity Register you can bet your bottom dollar that the Irish Government will follow suit. I doubt if there are many Irish or British (including Leo Hairy-Camel) who truly want to be made to walk around with a government bar code in their wallets. It would be a huge infringment of our civil liberties.

Give BALPA their due - they are fighting where other organisations are actually being quite cowed.

[atse]

Wig Wag you should not say things like that.

It might frighten the camel.

Then he would not be free to do MOL's bidding.

Shameless mercenary, dupe, propagandist and ideological fellow-traveller that he is.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

aFSKAP

X 2

If you have nothing to hide what harms another piece of plastic going to do in your wallet

[Wig Wag]

Have a look at:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/372687-balpa-challenge-id-cards.html

If you want to have an ID Card and have your life tracked on a UK Government database that's fine by me. I refuse to have an ID Card and don't see why I should:

a. be refused an airside pass.

and

b. be refused a passport.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

its a little naive to assume a lot of this info isn't stored anyway, fingerprints get scanned everytime I go to the USA. Iris recognition gives me the chance to bypass the queue at arrivals. So unless I'm planning to knock off a mail train anytime soon it just doesn't matter to me that this info is stored.

Can you conspiracy theorists tell me how and why the slippery slope is so slippery what can we expect? (cue Dr.Pepper music) whats the worst that could happen?

Off topic - btw sorry

[M.Mouse]

I have to say that I have no particular liking for Leo but I do admire his ability to make money and admire how he almost on his own has built Ryanair in to a money making machine.

The Mafia make money. I don't admire them.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

To quote the great American showman P T Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute" - and there are several on this thread right now! The blind loyalty of unablereqnavperf to Michael O'Leary is touchingly reminiscent of Joseph Goebbel's loyalty to Adolf Hitler. Right to the bitter end, there was dear Joseph demanding loyalty from all his fellow travellers - utterly blinded to the hideous truth of his master. You can hear it now, "The Furher may have killed 20 million Russians but he must have had his reasons - he would only have done it because he thought it necessary. Who are we to question?" Such has been the devotion of the weak to the apparently strong around them down the centuries.

Regarding the more immediate problem of BALPA and the assertion that they never achieved anything in any airline, let me give you a few examples. At easyJet we have had a number of our pilots disciplined down the years - at the last count BALPA has won every single appeal on each individual's behalf. In reality that means someone's career was under threat and as a minimum a substantial financial package was arranged on their behalf or in many cases they were reinstated. When easyJet decided to only employ Training Captain's on temporary contracts without consultation (thereby making the 1%/year everyone whines about look small beef compared to the 12.5% loss of salary), it was BALPA that fought it and won. Throughout last Winter when there was little training, everyone got paid for holding the rank as opposed to what they were doing day to day. Why do we have crew food still (and only today have won yet another crew food battle with our employers) and Ryanair do not? Why do easyJet pilot contract details appear on the internet for all to see when Ryanair's are 'private matters' between employee and employer? Why did we get our previously-agreed 5.5% pay deal given out last October when everyone else got pay freezes? Why are we not having contract captains from Virgin Atlantic this summer when the company had already made the arrangements behind our back? Why are there being massive changes now to rosters to train our First Officers very hurriedly to be our Captains flying our aircraft over the summer? Why did easyJet pilots not receive notification of compulsory unpaid leave whereas Ryanair pilots did? There is only one reason - BALPA fought tooth and nail - using a combination of logic, reasoning and threats. This they acted in the best interests of the pilot community, when faced with totally unscrupulous individuals who would leave us in the street with nothing. BALPA has not won every battle every time, but they have won most battles on most occasions. Having BALPA represent the pilots is the only thing that separates our two companies. The benefits are there for all to see.

Do not be misled by the "Michael knows best" brigade. To him you are just a bunch of "aerosexuals" (his term and not mine!), who are there for the taking. I trust you will use your best judgement by backing the future and not the past.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Having BALPA represent the pilots is the only thing that separates our two companies.
There's a great deal more than that, I think you'll find.

Norman, a pleasure as always to hear from you. You're looking well, and please pass my best regards to Mrs. F. One of the reason's I've always admired you, apart from your evident talent with the written word, is the impression I've formed that you actually believe what you write, and maintain your position with consistency. I'll save you the quotation attributed to Voltaire, but you'll take my meaning, I'm sure.

Clearly, you're a man of faith and like all believers you'll go to your grave holding onto a notional allegiance in the central goodness and benevolence of BLAPA. If it pleases you to cling to the minimum of good, despite an Everest in the maximum of bad, documented to the heavens, then I can only wonder at the suspension of disbelief required on your part, and in those of similar mind or those persuaded by your rather thinly constructed argument.

Permit me to touch for a moment on the subject of ID cards, currently in favour by the government of the United Kingdom. As colleagues have noted earlier on this thread, BLAPA have pinned their colours to the mast of this cause with uncharacteristically buttock-clenching fervour. The reason why they have done this is because the choice is formed, as was ever thus, in the highest profile case possible, certain to provide them with a win. The ID card issue is to be shelved. This has already been mooted at Cabinet level as a part of the swinging cost cutting the UK government is required to perform in response to their borrowing more in the past year, than all British cabinets in the past 300 years combined. Out go ID cards, BLAPA take the credit, and hey presto, they're famous for another ill-gotten fifteen minutes. Putrid!

The recession makes for odd bedfellows, but seeking to aggrandise themselves over a cause they know full-well is to be shelved, is opportunism of the most scurrilous sort, and precisely the sort of craven, self-interested behaviour that has identified BLAPA for decades. That they don't give a tuppenny phuck for anyone outside British Airways is demonstrable currently, and provable historically. That you continue, Norman, to hold up the turd that is BLAPA and twist it in the sunlight until it sparkles, does not for a moment, change its nature as a turd.

I will say to you, Norman, that I find it offensive in the extreme that you choose to characterise Ryanair and it's Chief Executive as being emblematic of the Third Reich and its leadership. That the view of Ryanair in the collective psyche of those outside the airline is at complete variance with the view of the majority from within, is a matter of record. I would ask as a friend, Norman, that you stop degrading yourself by making such mawkish extravaganzas in the future. Lets stick to debating the facts as they are on the ground, shall we?

Now then, as to your rather unfortunate continued comparison between Easyjet and Ryanair. This very day, Easyjet has announced doubling of losses, the departure of your Chairman, Sir Colin Swindler, and the highly capable Mr. Carr of your money department. All this at a time when your Mr. Harrison is putting out fires intentionally started by Sir Stellios all over the place because he doesn't want his airline to fail. Oh dear.

It doesn't bode well for your future. Once again, you should consider coming across to work for us, Norman. I'll even interview you myself, over a few pints, of course. As for your recent question...
And by the way Leo, given that "two of your former Orange men are now Senior TRE's at our facility at East Nowhere", I would love to hear their view on leaving now. It is inconceivable to me that anyone who left easyJet in the past, when it was significantly worse than it is now, could hand-on-heart say they are glad they work for Ryanair.
You did read, I presume, the reply from your (now our) Stan Woolley, didn't you?
What amazes me is how superior easyjet consider themselves.
Are you listening NORM? I prefer Ryanair. Absolutely no contest.

In the most reasonable of terms, Norman, I think you and your fellow denizens of beloved Orangeland, massaged as they are by the tender, two-faced caress of BLAPA, are soon to be circling the drain. I even hear on the jungle drums that a certain Mr. W. Brady is soon to join your management team, and that, my dear Norman, will put a cat among the pigeons, I can assure you.

http://www.iconocast.com/00027_Portu/B9/News4_0.jpg

Meanwhile, at a properly run LCC beyond the Bailey Light, we’ll be training 233 brand new baby cadets between now and year’s end, 66 Direct Entry Captain’s, along with our immensely successful command upgrade programme. Might I be bold and suggest it’s an ideal time for you to get with the strength, Norman? As an LTC yourself, you’ll be raking in about £13,200 per month at the current exchange rate, for 11 months of the year. If you find that distasteful, Norman my dear, then perhaps run it past Mrs. Fletcher to see her point of view.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Wonderful stuff Leo - alas not quite right but why let the truth stand in the way of a good story. The winter losses at easyJet, in common with nearly every other airline, will be with us for ever and a day - that is the nature of European airline operation. As you yourself know, there is only one figure that counts - the overall year following the summer season. The current prediction is that we will make a profit - something few airlines in Europe will achieve this year.

Regarding Stan Woolley, I realise that he is a man of unusual sensitivity on these issues and is prone to periods of deep personal distress when discussions of this kind appear. And yet his case is one of note and relevant to the current debate. He no doubt prefers the Ryanair of today compared with the easyJet of yesterday - so would I for what it is worth. The problem is that he is trapped comparing apples with oranges and cannot be easily rescued from his self-imposed time warp. The easyJet he left was prior to the big pro-BALPA surge. We are now in a very different position. All very sad as the situation at easyJet was in Stan's day, that is more for the memoirs rather than having any bearing on the reality of today. Stan would understandably be unhappy to admit it was a bad move going to Ryanair and quite understandably will reflect on the easyJet he left as justification for being where he is. The problem is that the easyJet he left is not the one I am in now. If he his happy where he is then I am delighted for him. His view of blue and yellow Utopia is, alas, not shared by his colleagues. They have a chance to change that by joining BALPA and I trust they will do so.

The arrival of Warwick Brady, as you rightly observe, is not a bright moment for any pilot at easyJet. Given that even the Irish courts branded him an unrelialbe individual, and that subsequent to his departure from Ryanair he has been a conspicuous failure at Air Deccan and some Indonesian outfit whose name I cannot recall, his arrival is hardly a matter for rejoicing. He may even be here for the sole purpose of taking on the pilots. The difference is that, should the need arise, we can and will take him on. I am all for discussing efficiencies - I am not for being unable to get so much as a cup of tea on a 10-hour day.

As others have pointed out, the glory days at Ryanair are now over. The buy-to-sell rotation policy of aircraft around the industry is now defunct as no one is buying (we are in the same situation by the way). For what it is worth, Ryanair have done so much right. They bought the right aircraft at the right price with the right fittings. They went to the right airports and got the right deals. The problem now is that flying from one airport in the middle of nowhere to another airport in the middle of nowhere, calling both airports somewhere else and then saying how great it is you run on time is basically a specialist activity that can only expand so far. Sooner or later you have to use the Gatwicks and Barcelonas instead of the regional satellites if you want to continue expanding - after all not everyone really wants to travel to London Birmingham or whatever the latest illusion is. I personally think we should admire many aspects of Ryanair's operation (that view is shared by our management incidentally who use the Ryanair benchmark of employee relations as something to drool over).

And herein lies the advantage of BALPA. We have crew efficiency issues - our managers put it down to paying people too much money. BALPA however can highlight the astonishing inefficiencies that beset us of countless people night-stopping every night, and yet are wisely not offering up our salaries to hide managerial ineptitude. Ryanair have really got this cracked and I salute them for it. Interestingly enough, as Stan will know, we have many ex-Ryanair pilots now at easyJet (5 years ago it was one way traffic to Ryanair - now it is one-way traffic inbound to us). I was teaching in the sim the other night with another ex-Ryanair FO and had a long discussion with him about the relative merits of the two companies. He pointed out many positive aspects of the Ryanair operation, none of which I could disagree with. He also said that the life of an easyJet pilot is significantly better - that is a view I have heard again and again in the last 3 years. Where we have to sharpen up is at a managerial level and ensure we eliminate the inefficiencies of hotac that Ryanair sorted years ago. I have no problem with that, nor do I have a problem with flying 900 hours a year - it is just that the people who run the system are not currently able to get those 900 hours a year out of us. Given that scenario, BALPA quite rightly are resistant to change when there is so much else to be sorted. What BALPA provides is a check and balance - their presence stops the blame for incompetence being laid at the door or 'unreasonable' pilots who will not acquiesce to ludicrous plans that hide the real inefficencies.

I personally believe that both Ryanair and easyJet have a bright future. Nonetheless, I stand resolutely to the view that responsible union representation where pilots and management work together rather than by dictat is the way forward. We all know that both our companies are facing massive challenges, but they way forward for Ryanair pilots is to ensure their company learns to value their employees rather than treat them like the workhouse population of old.

[Stan Woolley]

Norman

You're right - I am overly sensitive on this issue.....2 reasons.

1/ I detested easyJet by the time I left, mainly down to the effect it had on my own and many of my colleagues health.

2/ Your continued refusal to accept my opinion as valid.Stan would understandably be unhappy to admit it was a bad move going to Ryanair

I find that insulting because I believe my judgement is in fact quite sound.As a TRE I hope so anyway! I'm sure you know that I have worked for a number of companies including Airtours, Royal Brunei and a few others. The only company I preferred to Ryanair was Britannia - where I flew for five years.The reason for me? Simple. Rostering. Pay me well and give me a decent roster and you are 90% there. There are other factors which are important too. SOP's and standards have to be to a certain level and I have left companies where they were not acceptable to me. They are perfectly acceptable to me at Ryanair. The aircraft are immaculate! Easily the best maintained aircraft I have come across.

There are some aspects that are less appealing of course but I balance the deal and so far have quickly decided to smile and get on with it.

You truly have the gift of the gab - I'd be amazed if you're not a wheel in either easyJet management or Balpa within a short while. Spinning and achieving toss all are their specialities.

Interesting that so many on Pprune see you as 'The Oracle'.

Even more interesting that you're starting to believe its true!

[curser]

Well FR must be better, right, or you have made a colossal mistake with your life. You are in training so tell us are you seeing any movement of Easy personnel coming over to FR, and if not you are compelled to ask yourself the question, why is that? Having read this thread I see no spin and toss in Normans' posts at least.

[Stan Woolley]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

OK fellas you are right. I made a colossal mistake - trying to be straight with people who have made up their minds already.

My only fault is caring what you think.

[curser]

Stan, only you know the answer to the question. Are you seeing Easy personnel joining RyanAir? This is not a personal attack, but you are compelled to look at the facts as they present and from that generate your model. I would only point out that you may well be rationalizing your way through the truth in order to avoid and unpleasant reality. On the flip side maybe RyanAir is a great place to work in which case thanks for letting the rest of us in on the best kept trade secret.

[Alexander de Meerkat]

Just in case there is any doubt about the state of easyJet finances, this is the latest statement about easyJet's half-year performance. I think that even the most critical of contributors would agree this is overall good news. Read this and you will then be in an informed position to evaluate Leo's assertions about easyJet's future. IMHO it looks quite good - there are whole lot of airlines out there who would just love to be in this position:


RNS Number : 7286R easyJet PLC 06 May 2009
easyJet plc
Interim results for the six months to 31 March 2009

GOOD 1ST HALF REVENUE PERFORMANCE; FULL YEAR GUIDANCE MAINTAINED

Results at a glance
H1 2009 H1 2008 change
Total revenue (£ million) 1,032.8 892.2 15.8%
Loss before tax - underlying (£ million) 1 (129.8) (48.4) (168.2)%
Loss before tax - reported (£ million) (116.5) (57.5) (102.6)%
Pre tax margin - underlying (%) 1 (12.6) (5.4) (7.2)pp
Return on equity - reported (%) (7.4) (3.7) (3.7)pp
Basic EPS - reported (pence) (20.4) (10.3) (98.1)%

TOTAL REVENUE PER SEAT UP 14.9% (7.6% AT CONSTANT CURRENCY) DRIVEN BY STRENGTH OF EASYJET NETWORK, IMPROVED ANCILLARY REVENUE PERFORMANCE AND A 4.8% SECTOR LENGTH INCREASE ASSOCIATED WITH THE ACQUISITION OF GB AIRWAYS
INCREASE IN PRE-TAX LOSS DRIVEN BY UNIT FUEL COST INCREASE EQUIVALENT TO &POUND;90.6 MILLION (&POUND;3.87 PER SEAT), MOVEMENT OF EASTER INTO THE SECOND HALF AND &POUND;13.7 MILLION REDUCTION IN INTEREST RECEIVABLE
TOTAL UNDERLYING COST PER SEAT1 (EXCLUDING FUEL AND CURRENCY MOVEMENT) UP 6.5% PARTLY DRIVEN BY INCREASED SECTOR LENGTH AND PLANNED LOWER AIRCRAFT UTILISATION DURING THE WINTER
STRONG POSITIVE CASH FLOW GENERATION WITH CASH AND MONEY MARKET DEPOSITS INCREASING IN THE SIX MONTHS BY &POUND;268.6 MILLION TO &POUND;1,131.1 MILLION (EXCLUDING RESTRICTED CASH OF &POUND;103.6 MILLION)
PASSENGER NUMBERS UP 2.9% TO 19.4 MILLION AND LOAD FACTOR IMPROVED 1.7PP TO 82.9%
FOR THE FIRST TIME, OVER HALF OF EASYJET'S PASSENGERS ORIGINATED OUTSIDE THE UK WITH A 21.8% GROWTH IN EASYJET'S PASSENGER NUMBERS ON EUROPEAN-BASED ROUTES
EASYJET'S POSITION HAS STRENGTHENED IN KEY GROWTH MARKETS OF LONDON GATWICK, PARIS, MILAN AND MADRID
FORWARD BOOKINGS, MEASURED BY AVAILABLE SEATS BOOKED, AND TOTAL REVENUE PER SEAT BEFORE THE IMPACT OF EXCHANGE RATES IN LINE WITH LAST YEAR WITH OVER 40% OF THE SUMMER NOW BOOKED
Note 1: Underlying financial performance excludes £9.1 million of costs associated with the integration of GB Airways in 2008 and a £13.3 million profit on the sale of two aircraft in 2009.
Commenting on the results, Andy Harrison, easyJet Chief Executive said:
"The 7.6% growth in our constant currency revenue per seat is a strong result in the current economic climate and underlines the strength of our network and our competitive position. Overall capacity in the European short-haul market shrank by 5.6%, however, easyJet gained market share in the period, with passenger numbers growing by 2.9% to 19.4 million.
"The reduction in our H1 profit margin was driven by an increase of £3.87 per seat in our unit fuel costs (equivalent to £90.6 million), which will unwind as our fuel hedging policies adjust to lower market prices. The movement of Easter into the second half of the year also depressed our first half margins.
"While we remain cautious about the consumer economy, at current fuel prices and exchange rates, easyJet expects to be profitable for the full year.
easyJet is financially strong, with cash and money market deposits as at 31 March 2009 exceeding £1 billion, and has good and well-established market positions and the Board remains confident in easyJet's future prospects."

[Aldente]

along with our immensely successful command upgrade programme.

That would be the one where Ryanair charges potential candidates £4000 for the "privilege" to upgrade then is it Leo ? .....

Oh, and they're bonded afterwards too !


:=

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

there are whole lot of airlines out there who would just love to be in this position:
Possibly. Few, though, who would relish being in this (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7b78901e-3a57-11de-8a2d-00144feabdc0.html) one.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ust9YBlEfY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Ust9YBlEfY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[captplaystation]

Sounds "immensely successful", but for who ? :D :rolleyes:

I like the sound of Leo's 13,200 a month, but let's be clear here, that "may" be achievable in an ideal world, but is most definitely related to "contract" status ,and is of course pretax /no social contributions etc etc etc .
Leo, take off those rose tinted specs dear chap, they clash with your hair. It's not so bad at the coal face, but it ain't "that" good for most, if not all , of my acquaintance.
Lets see, 900hr x 140e an hour? (LTC but then again the "new enhanced "deal reduced the period you enjoy that premium :hmm:) divided by 11 = . . . . . well, seems a bit less than you say, or is IRE/TRE more? don't know, didn't reach those dizzy heights Leo :rolleyes: howdya come up with 13,200 of Her Majesties greenies for 11mths BTW ?

[f/spninx]

Stan Woolley
I Salute you. I am also one of the many ex easyjet employees at Ryanair.
Norman Stanley Fletcher
You spoke to an ex FR FO in the sim and he said he preferred easy, well what a surprise. Was it just before you filled out his report/command assessment? When you have spoken to an ex FR Captain then you will get the real picture. In the Ryanair Ltn base at one point nearly 30% of the Captains were Ex Easy. You did employ some ex FR Captains but they all came back to an airline where the rosters are put together by profesionals not failed cabin crew and ex tele sales hangers on.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Stan W, you have the right stuff.

Rosters, pay...most important and then base.

Regardless of what the loudmouths think we are all cogent individuals capable of making p our own minds about unions and unionisation.

For my part...wouldn't go near BALPA or any other ALPA even as a last resort.

Legal insurance? You are better off with ALPL.

Nevertheless, my opinion is only a ripple in the pond.

[Freezing ATPL]

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion so here's mine bearing in mind that I have worked for EZY and RYR. Easyjet is by a country mile a better place to work and IS a better operation. Ryanair promise people cash and a stable roster. Fair enough and some people go for that. The cash is getting less and less whereas at EZY it is increasing. The roster however is stable but the leave system takes the piss.
So what are the main differences between the two ?
Well at EZY you get to name a few : free car parking, a pension (whether you pay into it or not), hotac for sims, transport for sims, even a payment for sectors for being in the sim. Whereas at RYR you get sweet FA. I won't even bore you with the uniform allowance and the bonus after 2 years service and the rpi increases as it makes me feel even worse about what I did.
Then you can move onto new aircraft. Both have them - a score draw.
But the OPS couldnt be further apart.
If you are lucky enough to get through to OPS in RYR they are at best inadequate. EZY ops were always on the ball for me.
Now if RYR is a better place to work i'm all ears !
Ps. Note I didn't mention Leo and his merry henchmen who's behaviour is at best disgusting. But they hide away to deliver their threats as none of them have got the :mad: to do it face to face.

[Aldente]

"You did employ some ex FR Captains but they all came back to an airline where the rosters are put together by profesionals" .... (sic)

f/spinx, you surely jest ? !!!

I would call JD and his department, many things, but "professional" (or even profesional !) is not one of them. The annual leave system in RYR is administered by the rostering dept using a "manual" spreadsheeet !!!!

[Spartacan]

>>The ID card issue is to be shelved. This has already been mooted at Cabinet level as a part of the swinging cost cutting the UK government is required to perform in response to their borrowing more in the past year, than all British cabinets in the past 300 years combined.<<

Very naive. The ID Cards plan is not a New Labour proposal but a long term Home Office project. Currently it is being re packaged to sit on a shelf for a couple of years before the mandarins start pushing it to the next Governments incoming Home Secretary. New Labour would never willingly cancel the ID Cards scheme as they would have to admit they were wrong on so many issues. They don't do 'u-turns' only re branding.

Expect ID Cards to be back in a new guise with a Tory Government. Probably in the form of compulsory passports with a national fingerprint database. I reckon this is where Eire will get caught up in the scheme. It will be difficult for the Irish State to exist for too long on the old 'picture only' passport. Remember that the push for international biometric registration came from the USA with the Patriot Act. I have yet to read anything about President Obama rescinding that particular deal.The EU is latching onto this with Project Stork:

Fears over pan-EU electronic identity network - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570619/Fears-over-pan-EU-electronic-identity-network.html)

The fight against ID Cards is set to continue well into the next Government and possibly beyond.

[captplaystation]

Annual leave "system" :D := :{ :confused: :* :} :ugh:

[inveritas]

.................................

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

f/spninx - Just to clarify, I spoke to the FO at the end of the session after the paperwork was written. As it happened he would not care what I had written as he has already resigned as he is returning to Australia to live! Also, I have spoken to FOs and Captains alike from Ryanair - the story is always the same. I have also spoken to a good friend who is still a captain at Ryanair and he would leave to come to easyJet tomorrow if he could. Freezing ATPL has, however, much more useful to say on the subject than I do. Perhaps it would be good to listen to him even if you find my views distasteful.

The first casualty of war is truth - nowhere is that more the case than in a discussion with Leo, magnificently entertaining as his posts undoubtedly are. As the more rational contributors like catplaystation have observed, the figures quoted are not quite as advertised by Leo, nor are the 'benefits' of working for Ryanair. As I have said before, there is only one thing that separates us as companies - union representation. The best and brightest hope for Ryanair is organised labour working to create a competitive company without selling its soul in doing so.

[Nice Touch]

Hello Norm,

Remember me? Look I was going to type some childish post and make fun of you-but you seem to be doing fine on your own. easyNow don't get upset.

Answer me this. You are suggesting that the only difference between EZY/FR is BALPA. So what happened has easy got "worse" or has Ryan got "better" You have always suggested that easy was better-even though you have no DIRECT experience of Ryan.

Secondly would you expand on one of your own questions "Why has easy got crew food and Ryan does not"

Let me save you the trouble the answer is..ME. Yes the fantastic benefit that you enjoy was as a direct results of me, Stan, f/sphinx and all the other pilots who "founded" easyJet-not bloody BALPA. In fact we only started to pay of it AFTER BALPA got in-cheers for that.

Another point is that while easy was trying to kill me with mind warping fatigue-Ryan had already negotiated the first 5 year deal 5/3 rosters without a union. Why because they love pilots-NO -because it improved productivity and benefited the company. Back to easy. Did BALPA help with the roster. NO In fact it was one of there pre-election hooks-and the first thing to be dropped. No, instead they put all the important stuff into the hands of an unelected PC who were all old, mostly Australian and/or concerned about shares-no probs with that, except it did not represent the views of 90% pilots. Great.

NSF do you see where this is going. Even if you fly for easy for the next 30 years it will always be more mine, Stans, f/shinx and all, than yours. We set up the good bits that you enjoy now and we survived the post BALPA working environment. To quote the now CP after BALPA got in "...
well you wanted it-now you will get it.." So if you feel us to be sensitive-your damn right we are-years later I still can't get over the dreadful lifestyle that nearly finished me and my family.

So NSF do me and all the other long severed pilots out there a favour-accept that you don't fully understand the history and that must mean that your efforts to draw comparison and example from the past are flawed. Accept that you don't understand Ryanair and that you should not even mention it.

You do have a talent for talk-but remember that although you have have found your Garden of Eden-but it is yours and yours only.

We HAD to vote in BALPA at easy. Roster-pay-leave. A CEO that refused any benefit to the pilots eg staff travel to allow Continental pilots to go home-on the logic that postmen don't get free letters! Jesus. We had NO option it was that bad.

Even the most ardent hater of Ryan would have to admit that were it counts eg Roster and lifestyle ryan has it sorted. They can hitch a lift when ever which means that temporary basing plus ultra stable roster, need not disrupt a family too much. As for everything else the market is driving-then as now.


Ryan allowed me to get "better"-to get a career going again and above all allowed me to spend time with my family in a fit state. Which is personal to me and I don't impose the view on anyone else. Now maybe you can enjoy that too-but that is only a recent innovation at easy.

So any improvements you have are as a result of the early professionals-who I see every now and again-they deserve and demand YOUR respect because they saw it through-they have mine-I had to run away to save me and my family.

So have it on me and all the others Norm-keep spouting your own brand of crap-I can say that because I have been there and done that and got the Tee Shirt.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

It must be stated clearly that there is considerable evidence of non-compliance with tax requirements. However we accept that, even in circumstances where some pilots have made significant efforts to clarify their position, it has - in practice - proved to be impossible for those pilots to do so. This is one of the paradoxes that we discovered when we investigated the matter. In other words, this business is much more complex than a simple matter of wilful breaking of the law. There are further issues as well, which vary depending on the country involved.
REPA have published, this very afternoon, on their website, an attempted denial of their involvement in dropping British and Irish contractors in a maelstrom of shyte.

One the one hand, they say it isn't them, and on the other they cite "considerable evidence of non-compliance". They go on to further muddy the waters by saying the very attempt to get yourself out of the mess they have created, without the golden hand of BLAPA/IALPA to assist you one presumes, is doomed to fail. What a class act of degenerate skulduggery.

If further evidence was needed as to their guilt and self-interested agenda, you need look no further than here.

Join BLAPA, and in addition to being spoken down to by superior, self-interested Atlantic Barons of British Airways on their turgid, unviewed website, you can look forward to having your tax affairs examined with a fine-toothed comb. Why ever have we waited this long? :rolleyes:

[atse]

Hey Leo, nice bit of attempted selective quotation there. But even the bit you quote does not say what you say it says (I've read the REPA site today too). I think you don't like the fact that it mentioned you, you sensitive soul. Just to prove that I can cut and paste too, try thisIn actual fact Ryanair have made considerable efforts to blame IALPA at various times for creating difficulties with the tax authorities in Dublin. Some of these were "pushed" from Dublin, others from EMA and, more recently, a certain Leo Hairy Camel has used PPRuNe to make the accusation again (along with a number of other claims that suggest Ryanair feel a need to get into the pilot propagada business at this particular time).
You seem to have missed a lot of other comments like that one! But we all luv you.

[Boy]

What a class act of degenerate skulduggery.

A moment of personal insight Leo?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Nice Touch (Nasty Touch, Foolish Touch, No Touch....whatever). Can't say I do remember you, but I am sure we will have had discussions previously on this issue. It is always sad to hear yesterday's man living in yesterday's world. It's a bit like these Japanese soldiers who used to appear out of the jungle for about 30 years after the end of the war looking for Americans to fight - only to discover it was all over and both nations had changed beyond recognition while they had lived in a fantasy world all those years in isolation. Tragic.

A few helpful points to maybe lighten the load of your delusion - you did not start easyJet - Stelios did. You were just a simple employee who did not like it and left. The easyJet you left has long gone and I genuinely wish you well at Ryanair. You and your fellow travellers are simply locked in a time warp regarding easyJet, and given your inability to escape from a perception of the past that is simply irrelevant to today's discussion, you are probably in exactly the right place. There seems to be no way out for you regarding the easyJet you 'founded'.

"Even if you fly for easy for the next 30 years it will always be more mine, Stans, f/shinx and all, than yours." Nutty talk my friend. I suppose that just because you are paranoid you cannot be sure they are not out to get you. You do not 'own' easyJet, nor have you ever done so. You are just a disenchanted employee who got the hump and left. We all wish you well, but do not harbour illusions of gradeur - they are manifestly misplaced.

"So if you feel us to be sensitive-your damn right we are-years later I still can't get over the dreadful lifestyle that nearly finished me and my family." Great for the grandchildren but it is NOT THE CASE TODAY. That lifestyle has gone, and you and your sad mates who are upset at what happened to them at easyJet just need to move on. Sit in your cockpits and spout forth to anyone who will listen about how bad it was, but see it like the trenches - it's over now. And by the way, if the guy next to you is not saying much in reply, it is probably because he would like to talk about something else!I

Life is full of disappointments - you have had one at easyJet but do need to move on. Just sit back, relax and enjoy the flight with Ryanair. For everyone else, just join BALPA.

[McBruce]

Leo, I don't think anyone cares what you say!

Lets not make this an EZY/FR thread, the more important issue here is the upcoming fight of unionisation within RYR, not which airline is best to work for or who flies the bigger airplane...

www.balpa.org/RyanairSupport.aspx (http://www.balpa.org/RyanairSupport.aspx)

[Stan Woolley]

not which airline is best to work for or who flies the bigger airplane

Or who has the daftest management?

easyJet announces intention to conduct mid-air marriages | Travel | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2009/may/05/theairlineindustry-easyjet)

To have and to hold.........
To love and to..........excuse me a second........Left ten degrees and descend when ready Flight Level Two Hundred level by Mayfield Easy 3256...........cherish

Haha - unbelievable.:8 :E

[f/spninx]

Norman Stanley Fletcher
How long have you been at easyjet?

[Nice Touch]

Norman does metaphor mean nothing to you?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHO IS BEST.

I don't need a history lesson about easy 'cos I was there! Unfortunately
ey you can not ignore the past-since it is these agreements which are at risk. Agreements that you have only recently become part of.

Is this about union recognition, or not? To remind. You think we are both the same, EZY/FR, so expand on that. Use your personal experience of Ryanair and easyJet to qualify your argument.

My issue is personally with you. Your naivety and influence you have over younger pilots. As you read the next bit-this is NOT ABOUT EASY-RYAN AND PI$$ED OLD PILOTS. This is about unions and the Hobson's choice we have as pilots

Why is it OK for you to call for union recognition in a company that you have never worked in.

A Lot of young people at the beginning of their careers with considerable debt would stand to loose a great deal if they listen to the likes of you.

Do you think that the current economic conditions are a good time to start a battle with the managers.

So here's an idea preach BALPA-use past examples of victories achieved in easyJet-you will have to ask someone who has been there a while to help. Then because you are NSF and are so clever offer the helpless victims some way of continuing their careers when agreements are ripped up, bases frozen and promotions stopped etc-what then.

In one thing I agree if you don't like it-move I did. My issue is not with easy-its with you and your call for recognition based on what ...crew food, softer toilet paper or a free pen with every LPC...what are you asking for that an airline can/is willing to give under the current climate. Your probably sorted with your RAF/GB(BA) pension, so no risk to you.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

f/sphinx - 5 years.

Nice Touch - no GB pension, £3076 per annum from the RAF. Just stopped contributing to easyJet pension scheme in order to attack my mortgage. Just before I stopped paying-in my predicted pension was £11k per annum. Trust me, I have a vested interest in the future and right now it is does not look too rosy. That's why I want a union.

Stan - Mid-air marriages - an act of utter buffoonery. Yet more reason to have a union representing my interests to management.

Leo - your magnificent posts are so good. Just keep them coming. To a man of such clear education as yourself, I cannot help but quoting the words of Joseph Stalin - “Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?” Is that how you want your professional lives to continue? I trust not.

And finally, to all those out there who think that when you want union recognition at Ryanair, do not be fooled. The Blessed Michael and his acolytes will go to extraordinary lengths to prevent that happening. Let me leave you with another quote from the mighty Stalin himself - “It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

Good night to one and all.

[Aldente]

Quote from Nice Touch

Ryan allowed me to get "better"-to get a career going again and above all allowed me to spend time with my family in a fit state.


Good, I hope you enjoy your annual leave this year - 65 % of which will be allocated by the company, as one month off in the winter months, outside of school holidays .........


:ugh:


PS On the topic of quotes from "leaders", who said this one ?

"To destroy you is no loss - to keep you is no gain"

Was it :-

a) Pol Pot , the leader of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the 1970's
or
b) A well known CEO of a large low cost airline


:)

[delwy]

Nice Touch it strikes me that you are blind to the reality of your own circumstances, not to mention that of your colleagues. Have you ever considered renaming yourself Out of Touch?

[f/spninx]

I still can't work out why Norman Stanley Fletcher gets so excited about Ryanair. It has nothing to do with him. Just like crew food that was free when easy had no union representation, then Balpa decided to pay for it and now it looks like you are going to lose it. This has nothing to do with me as i do not work for easy.
With regard to ex easy staff at Ryanair the Ltn base has about 30% ex easy employees.

[f/spninx]

Vexed
You mention rosters change to 6/3 when you go to the sim. Easyjet have a set roster pattern 6/3 5/4 etc then a full 2 months of random rostering in other words what suits them. All approved by BALPA.
FO pay cut in 2007. Easyjet had a loyalty system of 5% for three years service, 10% for 5 years service, 15% for 10 years service. All this was part of the original terms of service. Now the FO's do not qualify for the bonus. All approved by Balpa.
Is it fair that we pay for our uniforms? So do easyjet they get a monthly allowance. Ryanair get a "pilots allowance 2007" paid monthly.

[one post only!]

F/sphinx, the roster pattern at EZY is 5/4/5/3. FO's do qualify for the loyalty bonus, Balpa got it re-instated. The uniform allowance has been stopped with Balpa's agreement, because the company is to provide the uniform instead.

[delwy]

Hey there one post only! may I respectfully point out that this is a discussion thread about Ryanair started by an infamous talking camel? Any attempts to confuse the issue by providing facts and avoiding propaganda will tend to cause confusion (especially for the camel, which has a limited and narrow field of vision). In particular, inconvenient facts are unlikely to be well received. Be prepared for attacks on your grammar, spelling, ethnicity and presumed support for North Korea.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Aldente

I'm not joining in the p1ssing contest but need to correct this :

65 % of which will be allocated by the company, as one month off in the winter months, outside of school holidays .........

At my base the leave allocated already includes all the summer months and we are sorting it out ourselves.

As to the 65% remark, if one accepts that the summer months run June through September inclusive for school holidays, it's simply stating the bleedin' obvious that 65% will allocated outside of some school holidays and in Spring, Autumn and Winter as 65% of the available months lie in those seasons.

Lies, damn lies and statistics: good try. :D

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Norman, my admiration of you is taking a perhaps fatal battering. Why this unhealthy preoccupation with oblique references to despots at either end of the political speculum? Clearly, an absence of subtlety is not something the RAF loses a lot of sleep over, as one might expect of an organisation who thrills to the achievement of flying 7800 nauticals to blow 7 sheep to Kingdom Cum.

Since you're evidently enamoured of the selected writings of Uncle Jo, how's this one for you, in the original Russian.

Жить стало лучше, товарищи. Жить стало веселее.
"Life has improved, comrades. Life has become more joyous."

Keep telling yourself that, Norman, and I suppose some of it is bound to wear off. God knows you need some sort of diversion to help massage those £1000 of BLAPA membership fees from your wallet each year, and I'm sure those rumours of it increasing to 2% are totally unfounded.

[fearcampaign]

Dear All,

Be careful not to allow this post to drift.

I would suggest it is Leo's intent.

Quite simple to sign a petition or join an association if one feels it is in his/her interest.

Such is the benefit of a democracy that encourages freedom of choice/ideas.

Just like I have the choice to fly Ryanair/ Easyjet or BA.

Can't always have one's cake and eat it too.:=:=


If Ryanair is such a fantastic company and I'm sure it is then you have nothing to fear from pilot's who are represented by a large association.

Southwest is also a fantastic low fares airline that works harmoniously with it's Pilot association.

Perhaps one day Leo you can ride around in a Harley paid for by your hard working pilot group.

As Aesop wisely said "United we stand, Divided we fall"

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Patrick Henry used the phrase in his last public speech, given in March 1799, in which he denounced The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions. Clasping his hands and waving his body back and forth, Henry declaimed,
Let us trust God, and our better judgment to set us right hereafter. United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs.
At the end of his oration, Henry fell into the arms of bystanders and was carried almost lifeless into a nearby tavern. Two months afterward he was dead.

Although I've been carried almost lifeless into a nearby tavern, particularly after a week of six-sector earlies, I usually always manage to survive the experience. If Patrick Henry is one to go by, it would seem that, apart from stupor on stilts, union membership is bad for one's health!

[Clandestino]

union membership is bad for one's health!

The statement is correct, provided this is the one you are referring to:

http://www.crispinrodwell.com/images/gallery/Michael%20O%27Leary,%20Ryanair%20CEO.jpg

[Dan Winterland]

For some reason, reading this thread I'm reminded of a statement made by Lenin.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth".

[fearcampaign]

Dear Leo,

The quote was originally from Aesop the Ancient Greek Fabulist in 620-560 BC.

Patrick Henry's use was much later I think you will find.

As to what his death or your inability to hold drink have to do with the subject at hand I am not sure.Something has you on the defensive.

Why are you are so fearful of one pilot association? If BALPA are as incompetent as you say then what have you to fear?

My post encouraged the idea that regardless of association both Management and Pilots could work together toward a COMMON goal.

Perhaps a quote from Himmler more suits your style of spin and staff relations/engagement.

“The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear.”

Could be a good one for the Ryanair HR whiteboard. Or keep it in mind next time you get carried home in a drunken stupor.

[the grim repa]

As ever selective quotation and propoganda from the one man ryanair management lies office.but in possibly a freudian slip,camel is like his henchmen an admired of an exploiter and slave keeper like Henry.

what he will not quote from Henry is his most famous speech "give me my freedom,or give me death".

keep spinning camel,it truly is a masterclass in "union busting" bullshoot.Better get a different "emlpoyee consultant" firm,if that is all they can muster up for you.

[M.Mouse]

Or keep it in mind next time you get carried home in a drunken stupor.

You mean he is sober when he writes his stuff?

I have lost count of the times he has said that BALPA subscriptions are £1000 per year. I pay a lot less than that after 21 years and around 66% of what I do pay is tax deductible anyway.

BALPA isn't perfect but it does go some way to keeping 21st century mill owners in check.

The way the Ryanair apologist is so vehemently attacking BALPA and all it stands for would indicate BALPA is effective otherwise why would he be so obviously engaged in an all out attack?

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Good morning, Monsieur Souris. Good of you to dip you oar in the chill waters of we who work for a living. You'll forgive the impertinence, but as a British Airways pilot yourself, you WOULD be encouraging BLAPA membership, wouldn't you? I mean, you and those like you are historically the principal beneficiaries of BLAPA. Therefore it is distinctly in your interest to glean every last pound from the great, unwashed others, or at least to give it your best effort when the complaints from ignored non-BA members rises above the traditionally acceptable din.

BLAPA isn't a threat, it is a joke. I just take pleasure in pointing out the more side-splitting aspects of your social fund's duplicity, the realities of which you have even contributed shamelessly to here (http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/372663-ask-not-what-your-union-can-do-you-discuss.html).

Effrontery, thy name is Mouse.

As your chum Pappa Smurf reminds us back in '04, when contemplating the insinuation of a union into an airline who doesn't want one, the experience is somewhat reminiscent of submission before a prostate examination (and I hope, sincerely, that your, ah, friend was it, has had his bum bagel properly seen to). Nothing worse than having an irritant up your arse that you can't get rid of. Rather like your BLAPA, don't you think?
Theres only one concern when getting a digital examination---make sure the doc hasnt got 2 hands on your shoulders.

[45989]

LHC..... comment not required
Keep digging
You're playing a blinder!
Bet you can't tell which end of the horse you are talking out of either?
I KNOW you don't live in Mullingar.......Pikey central

[fearcampaign]

Hello Leo,

I strongly suspect it is you who is used to dishing out the fingering...........probably more like a Ryanair fisting.

Your tail gunning obsession aside, I still do not see the relevance of your post with regard to Association membership.

Like I said earlier that is up to the individual to decide on the merits of membership.

Now run off and play Management vs pilots with your latex glove.

[Stand31]

Dear Leo,

Dumb and Dumber?. The reason is that Aer Lingus pilots spent money buying shares is very simple. Aer Lingus pilot P60 €180,000. Divide that by two to get the ryanair one!. I'd say it was €35k well spent at the time!. Doesn't cost me a thought. IALPA never made anyone rich?. Sorry but I'm paid well because of my union!, (and very content).

As for the contractors well if you employed them properly like everyone else (and paid PRSI) then they wouldn't be in such trouble.

Anyhoo hope you are feeling well these days, you don't look great if you don't mind me saying so. There are strong rumours that keep comng up of Leo having "hump" cancer. To be honest I wouldn't wish it on anyone least of all someone with a young family but in your case the only regret I would have is that you would be around long enough to pay our President a large wedge of cash for slander on national television.

Have a nice day - I'm off to play a nice round of golf. Would you like to come to the IALPA dinner on Thursday?. It would be great entertainment (for us!!).

Happy humping

[45989]

Gather that a certain real LHC spends some time at the Mater Private?

[Faire d'income]

Dear Leo,

Dumb and Dumber?. The reason is that Aer Lingus pilots spent money buying shares is very simple. Aer Lingus pilot P60 €180,000. Divide that by two to get the ryanair one!. I'd say it was €35k well spent at the time!. Doesn't cost me a thought. IALPA never made anyone rich?. Sorry but I'm paid well because of my union!, (and very content).

As for the contractors well if you employed them properly like everyone else (and paid PRSI) then they wouldn't be in such trouble.

Anyhoo hope you are feeling well these days, you don't look great if you don't mind me saying so. There are strong rumours that keep comng up of Leo having "hump" cancer. To be honest I wouldn't wish it on anyone least of all someone with a young family but in your case the only regret I would have is that you would be around long enough to pay our President a large wedge of cash for slander on national television.

Have a nice day - I'm off to play a nice round of golf. Would you like to come to the IALPA dinner on Thursday?. It would be great entertainment (for us!!).

Happy humping

While fighting the enemy's propaganda be careful not to be consumed by your own. Don't take everything you are told as Gospel, check it out.

[Tom the Tenor]

Ah, now, now, lads, have a sense of decorum, please! What the real LHC does or does not in his own time is very much a Private Mat(t)er!

There is just no room for below the belt tactics. That sort of stuff is kept for Cork - Prestwick & Cork - East Midlands.

As for unions - maybe, BALPA/IALPA, are worth it for pilot groups but in the more salty world some of us have to live in I recommend a b-astard solicitor and a big stick or should that a b-astard with the big stick and a solicitor whom is a specialist in employment law.

Sure, it is going to cost but doesn't everything?

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Would you like to come to the IALPA dinner on Thursday?
Actually, yes. I'd love to, if armed to the teeth with a MAC-10 and grenade belt, but the inevitable consequences of dining on a feast of such hubris and smug self-satisfaction would be a scorching case of indigestion. Perhaps better not.

As you gorge on each other this Thursday, consider this, Stand31. Your airline, excellent and historically important as it is to every, and I mean every Irish person, is destined to fail. And you have yourselves to thank.

Forget the animosity, forget the differences perceived and real, and reflect on the sad truth that there were two opportunities to save Aer Lingus, truly save it and make it soar. Both were discarded, for one reason or another, and in the process IALPA's Dwarf-in-Chief has cost you all millions in the Tailwind fiasco and has infected the Shamrock with a pestis from which it shall not emerge.

No-one takes pleasure in the demise of a once mighty airline, especially one with so excellent a product as Aer Lingus. You could all have so easily thrived, with jobs and futures for decades ahead. But no.

Consider all this, on Thursday night, and know that I, and a great many more Irish people, will be with you in spirit but with heavy hearts too, as the greatness of your decline begins in earnest, in the days and weeks ahead.

Cheers, IALPA. Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow you're screwed.

[Stand31]

Morning Leo,

Fair enough, wouldn't want to give you indigestion in your delicate state of health. I'm not sure Aer Lingus was ever "once mighty" but anyway... it is a pleasant place to work and not (yet) infected with the intimidation, bullying, and fear that pervades the Ryanair workplace perpetuated by yourself and those urchins O'Brien & Wilson.

As for the demise of Aer lingus, do you really think that the pilots and IALPA are solely responsible for this?/ The alternative as you would suggest is to go the way of the "once mighty" Buzz -> " here's your new contract; take it or fark off" - no thanks :)

I would put the blame squarely at the door of EI management who have done a tremendous job of screwing up the fuel hedging (like yourself), paying €117.5m for an early retirement scheme when all they had to pay was statutory. Opening of a base in BFS where nobody wants to fly. Opening up of a route to DXB that connected to nowhere. Putting all the longhaul a/c to the US instead of Capetown, Shanghai etc....I could go on ad infinitum. Basically it gives me no pleasure in seeing poor performance but do not see why we should pay for management incompetence.

That said I wouldn't like to see a maniac like yourself at the helm. Aer Lingus would exist solely for the benefit of MOL (and what good would that be!) instead of sharing the love!.

Happy Humping (and don't fall off that treadmill!!)

[F14]

Don't feed the troll :=

[Stand31]

Why not?! I'm going to have a great feed on thurs nite; terrine of camels bollix for starter.