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Flapskew
3rd Oct 2001, 21:59
A clamping company has enraged staff at Manchester Airport - by blitzing their car parks, according to the M.E.N. Furious pilot arrives with high powered cutting equipment to free his wife's vehicle. Good on you - Staff Wales strikes again. :mad:

HugMonster
3rd Oct 2001, 22:04
I'm debating starting a company (well, you all heard about Gill jobs) that goes around car parks with high-powered cutting equipment to free cars from clamps. The remains will be left there for them to find, with a note explaining what has happened. If they then sue me, so be it. I think I am right in saying that in all the test cases so far, no private firm of clampers has ever won in court when clamping cars on private property.

Gaza
3rd Oct 2001, 22:45
In Scotland private clamping was outlawed several years ago. It was deemed as "demanding money with menaces"! Overnight all the private clampers went bust. I'm amazed it is still legal in England and Wales. What is even more amazing is that private clampers can "remove" your car! In my book this is theft or "taking a vehicle without an owners consent."

The only problem with cutting a clamp off is you could find yourself being charged with criminal damage. If you removed it without damaging it, the clampers don't have a leg to stand on.

BillTheCoach
4th Oct 2001, 00:00
The same clamping company at MAN has put its warning signs in places where it is impossible to read them without parking illegally !

kaikohe76
4th Oct 2001, 00:16
I got a small grubby note in my crew file recently to the effect that, "provided my vehicle was displaying a valid sticker for that particular car park and provided the vehicle was parked in a marked bay, I should be fire proof" Only time will tell on this one.
I do agree that clamping either on public or private land then requiring cash to release the vehicle, is surely "Demanding Money With Menaces". What do BALPA have to say on this, answers please from 81 New Road.
A suggestion though, if you are unlucky enough to have a problem with the car park, do not negotiate with the clamping company. This is between us and Manchester Airport Authority only, despite what they might say.

411A
4th Oct 2001, 02:34
Have noticed that crew (flight deck and cabin) think that they are "above the law" when it comes to parking. Clamp 'em tight, I say, or better yet, tow 'em away with a very big impound fee.
OR----these crew could contract with a company (Bill the Coach, comes to mind) for transport to the airport. Regular staff can use the train, or the bus.

sapco2
4th Oct 2001, 03:05
The point is - these VICTIMS do not think they are above the law! They are merely trying to do their jobs, occasionally it will be necessary to park a loan car in the staff car park - what is so criminal about that? To find the vehicle you are using clamped after a long days work IS CRIMINAL!

By the way 411A, I note you are an American, so what would you know about parking in the United Kingdom?

rhythm method
4th Oct 2001, 04:00
Got to agree, I've occasionally had to use other cars to work at MAN and luckily haven't been clamped. It is a disgrace that MAPLC allow this to happen and in the current climate when people are worried enough about their jobs this is an additional unnecessary stress.

411A, you're a pr*ck who obviously knows nothing about the problems at Manchester Airport (That's in the UK for your info!). The car-parking problems in Staff Wales are a regular topic on this site, so take the hint, the problems are bigger than you can imagine. Stick to what you actually know about. :p

BluffOldSeaDog
4th Oct 2001, 04:18
How in god's name can anybody park illegally in Staff West. WE HAVE TO USE A PASS CARD TO GAIN ENTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE!! I considered thinking about this long and hard but thought sod it, I know a couple of solicitors who would love to destroy these clamping b**tards.

Doctor Cruces
4th Oct 2001, 04:47
I agree that clampers of legally parked vehicles should be shot.

Those lobbing grenades at 411A should be made aware that he has been based in Manchester and is thus qualified to talk about driving in the UK , oh and MAN!!

And unpopular though I may be for saying so some aircrew, and particularly some pilots, DO think themselves above the rules that ordinary folk have to abide by. I mentioned to a pilot, in uniform, who was about to leave his car unattended in Tower Rd at MAN only recently that he could not leave his car there. To be fair he probably didn't know because where he parked, the solid roof of his Beemer was obscuring his view of the BL***Y great sign that says words to the effect of no unattended vehicles etc etc drone drone drone. His response was, "But I'm a pilot and I work for XXX Airlines"

Sorry guys, but you have to admit that this is not the right attitude especially in the heightened security state that most airports are at just now.

In defense of pilots, only a few think this way, but thay aren't newsworthy are they?

Doc C.

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]

HugMonster
4th Oct 2001, 12:42
Sorry, Dr. C, but 411A is behaving like a total pr*ck yet again. And can you explain how clamping "strange" cars after they have been parked and their (therefore suspect) drivers have, presumably, departed for the terminal is supposed to help the security of a flight?

zfw
4th Oct 2001, 12:49
I've got one.
Apparently the guy that was doing the clamping,had a list of cars that were legally entitled to park in the car park,from the MA car parks office,and carried on regardless.
Out of the 15 cars clamped,in the railway station,only one was ineligable to park there.
Smacks of another MAPLC instant get rich quick scheme.

Harry Erman
4th Oct 2001, 13:15
Now, I want you all to keep this method secret:

(1) Jack up your car, (2) deflate the tyre in question, (3) lever the clamp off, (4) replace wheel with the spare.

Dispose of clamp in suitable river or lake whilst driving home.

nitefiter
4th Oct 2001, 14:27
Harry Erman
Nice one but may i suggest that maybe before(1) and definatly before (2) you check the spares inflated.Makes the next bit a little easier!! ;)

Albatross330
4th Oct 2001, 14:55
Alternatively, in true Blue Peter meets Viz comic style;

1) Buy/make yourself four wheel clamps.
2) Spray paint in your airline's colour scheme.
3) Afix flightbag fleet stickers to each just to prove you are an antagonistic pilot or have an ego problem.

Hey presto! The latest fashion accessory for your car, which can even be kept in that passe Ski roof box you leave on the roof all year to wind up the neighbours.

Park where you like, preferably where they can't lift it away.

Come along chaps, aren't we all getting a little serious? Don't let the B*****ds get you down!

Fortunately I come to work at MAN by air, although with Sabena almost clamped yesterday who knows where it will end.

Good luck and apologies to Relaint Robin drivers everwhere.

Scotflight Aviation
4th Oct 2001, 15:31
This has always been a problem at UK airports. Some years ago Glasgow airport reduced the size of the staff car parks making them incapable of coping with the capacity of staff cars. But when anybody double-parked they got threatened with a fine, even though there were no other spaces made available anywhere else in the airport that didn't have yellow lines. Then they made a new staff car park with all sorts of assurances that 24 hour staff would be present to stop car thieves stewardess molesters. within a month the new park was unattended with car break-ins and girls being approached by wierdoes.
Hugmonster..I presume you're ex-Gill air. My sympathies as an Ex-Gill driver myself.
If you set up a business cutting clamps..make sure you spend about 30 in Exchange & Mart to become registered as a "limited company"..then it make's it harder for them to sue you.

Good Luck to you and your ex-colleagues.

JPJ
4th Oct 2001, 15:55
Careful, men!

Cutting off the clamp is Criminal Damage. If convicted,a hefty fine, and compensation and costs. Oh, and a criminal record.

Fiddling the clamp off and throwing it away is theft. A conviction for theft is not the perfect adornment to your CV, particularly if you need foreign visas and the like.

Find another way round your problem - don't put yourself at risk. :eek:

Harry Erman
4th Oct 2001, 16:17
JPJ - only joking about the river, anyway the fish hate them.

How about removing the clamp and leaving it neat and tidy, where you found it, for the owner.

No damage, no theft, no jail!

(P.S. forgot to mention that you may need a long thin screwdriver/knitting needle to depress the valve pin and release the air!)

InFrequent Flyer
4th Oct 2001, 16:26
I read this sometime ago on the Honest John Motoring site of the Daily Telegraph.

Offer to pay the clampers with a cheque but do not offer a cheque card. If they accept and release your car, swiftly cancel the cheque. If, as is more likely, they do not accept, call the local constabulary. You have made an offer to pay their fee but they are refusing to release your car. In effect they are illegally holding you car.

Apparently it works.

Greg Baddeley
4th Oct 2001, 17:21
You can also cut off the padlock, if it's that sort of clamp. That way, the only damage for which you can be held liable is for 80 pence-worth of hardware. Offer them a quid to replace it and away you go!!

Silkman
4th Oct 2001, 17:33
As I mentioned to DIVER in Aircrew Notices get your ops to call the airport duty manager
IF your car is legally parked,I.E. permit in date etc.Get the ADM and the airport Police out to your car and threaten the MAplc with legal action and a letter to the Manchester Evening News. Make sure also, that your Station/Base Manager is aware so they can make a fuss with the airport management. I will be speaking to the Chairman of the AOC tomorrow and will ask him to bring this subject up yet again with the MAplc.
At the moment I feel that the MAplc are walking all over those of us that use the staff car parks.If we voice our opinions then maybe something may be done about it.
How about a staff car parks users commitee ?

JPJ
4th Oct 2001, 18:03
nothanxp: You misunderstand me. This is not a simple civil matter where you pay for the damage - it is a criminal offence deliberately to damage somebody's property, and it is dealt with in a criminal court.

So you are looking at a fine, and costs, and compensation, and a criminal record. These cases are quite common.

And IFF: I am not a lawyer, but I have a feeling that the clampers are entitled to insist on legal tender - and that ain't a cheque. If they take cheques or plastic that is up to them. On the other hand most of them are so thick, selected for looking menacing, that it might be worth a try.

By the way, when did you last buy a security padlock? The last one I bought was sixty quid!

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: JPJ ]

sapco2
4th Oct 2001, 18:24
Doctor Cruces,

I take it you are a police officer, if so how do you know 411A was ever based in the UK let alone Manchester? After all, this in an anonymous forum, do you claim to know him personally?

You do seem to have an enormous chip on your shoulder concerning Air Crew and you have completely steered off the issue of the wheel clamping which occurs inside the staff car parks. I agree if a pilot is caught parking on double yellow lines then he can reasonably expect a ticket but the guy who started this topic complained about his wife's car being clamped inside his staff car park not for being on double yellow lines!

The very fact you singled out a pilot in uniform to vent your anger on, following a completely unrelated incident, clearly illustrates your own BAD ATTITUDE TOWARDS AIRCREW.

Do I detect a aire of jealousy perhaps?

kaikohe76
4th Oct 2001, 21:33
I thought I would try the `horses mouth` on this problem. I rang the Staff Car Park Office at Hale Bop I think it is, to try and get some clarification.
I was informed fairly politely that, provided you adhere to the following, you should be ok. Only time will tell though.

1. Your vehicle must display a proper car park sticker (not scrap of paper in window if you have pinched wife's mini to day)
2. This sticker must be current (in date) and refer to the particular car park you are in. ie No good parking in car park 2 if you have a sticker for car park 3 etc.
3. The vehicle must be correctly parked. ie Within the marked bays only and nowhere else. I got the impression from my chat, this was the thing they were more on the look out for.

So if we all keep to the above, I gather we should be free of the Clamping Company, but I have my doubts.

I cetainly agree with Silkman's message of 4 Oct 12.33.

On a separate note, are the Clamping Company going to provide security for the vehicles themselves and for the Staff who actually use the car parks.

Airborne Hamster
5th Oct 2001, 00:06
Wonder what Mr Spooner has to say about this.Any comments John?

Congrats on the appointment by the way.Shame there's no Plough though,ehh mate!

Doctor Cruces
5th Oct 2001, 02:24
sapco2,

No, I do not have a bad attitude towards aircrew, just plebs in general who thimk rules don't apply to them. I was answering specific points brought up in other posts within this subject. Nor am I a policeman, just someone concerned with actually being blown to bits whilst going about their lawful occasions. Just because I have seen a pilot get out of the abandoned vehicle and go into Olympic House does not mean that the next concerned person who passes the same car has the same degree of knowledge that I do. Anyway, whats the best disguise for a terrorist at an airport? A member of staff or perehaps aircrew? How better to leave a little prezzy for us than to say I work for xxx and I'm just going in there for a mopment, then nip straight through and into a waiting car at the other side and bingo.

Why also must all aircrew think those of us who are not must be either incapable or jealous. I have never been jealous of any aircrew having chosen my career path many moons ago and been happy with it and the financial reward it reaps. Plus I get to work with mostly great people, some of whom have become lifelong friends. Funnily enough, a lot of them are aircrew.

And yes, I do know 411A personally and I can say he is one of the folks I would be proud to call friend, and the fact that he recommends that even PILOTS who park on double yellow lines get booked does not mean he is acting like a pr**k, just that he believes like so many others (including pilots) that pilots do not have double yellow line parking rights.

To answer HugMonster, no I don't see the point of clamping a car left in, say, Tower Road at MAN. That only helps the potential terrorist by making it harder to move. I would however favour the it being checked out by those in the know and if proved to be just a prat who thinks he can park there anyway, a hefty ticket being stuck on it and then have it towed away.

As I said before, the vast amount of aircrew do not think their position gives them special rights over double yellows. Indeed it is not just aircrew who are guilty of this around airports. However, seeing as 411A was talking about pilots parking on yellows and being called names for common sense, I figured to keep on the subject.

Doc C.

[ 04 October 2001: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]

chiglet
5th Oct 2001, 02:33
Not wishing to stir up "too" much trouble.
Walking down the Skylink at 6.38 am. the "staff" car park at the railway station had one "operational" barrier, and the rest permanently open. As I left work at 2.10 pm the same applied. :confused:
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

The slug man
5th Oct 2001, 02:55
Yes MAPLC are at it again, We did the Staff car parks earlier on this year. On with phase 2 of the operation. Lets clamp em. SHOULD BE A FEW QUID TO BE EARNED THERE. What shall we do next.....Lets tell em its got nowt to do with us, Its those cowboys from Sheffield. There to blame.But Geoff we could still do with getting our hands on a few more Quid..Got it. lets hold back the bonus they were all due, Better still lets tell em they can't have it.SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO PAY FOR THIS MESS.

whatshouldiuse
5th Oct 2001, 02:59
To All


So what's the diffrence between a passenger geting a ticket and a flight crew member getting a ticket?

Follow the rules... period. Because you are a Pilot doesn;t give you any right to flaunt the rules....although many pilots on this forum think otherwise. What made you so special or do you just feel entitled??


If you feel you are above the rules, be sure to let me know and I will be happy to explain why you are not as special as you think you are....and by now you should know!

Whatshouldiuse

Thin Controller
5th Oct 2001, 03:21
411A

Im right behind you.........

If they cant display the correct pass in the window then its their fault.

Airport cleaners use the car park, and they have not been clamped!!!!!!!!!!

411A
5th Oct 2001, 03:45
....and in addition, BillTheCoach is open for business...any takers?
Ah.....thought not. Some NEVER learn.

Doctor Cruces
5th Oct 2001, 04:30
Careful 411A, they'll accuse you of BEING Bill The Coach next!!

Doc C.

Capt EFIS
5th Oct 2001, 12:12
I have to say that I am totally against car clamping. For someone to put a clamp on a car must come under interference of property. Hey, it's your car, and no one else should be allowed to touch it without your permision.

They should be issuing you with parking tickets. That way, if you are parked correctly, you can still drive your car home. You just have to write a letter away explaining the situation.

They haven't got to clamping cars in Adelaide, and I hope it never comes to that.

Final 3 Greens
5th Oct 2001, 13:21
Guys

A word of caution. If you pay with a cheque and then cancel it, you have just obtained goods by deception, a criminal offence.

I loathe clamping companies too and understand why it would be very gratifying to stuff them this way, but you could end up being the loser.

Charlie32
5th Oct 2001, 14:04
GOOD NEWS FOR AIRCREW PARKING !!!

Why not move to Newcastle International. Loads of parking, (created by knocking hangars down).

Plenty of opportunity for new entrepreneurial airline to make camp, and take on vacated profitable Gill routes.

What goes down can only go up (maybe)

ABBOT
5th Oct 2001, 14:23
For info, bolt croppers both heavy & unwieldy, small angle grinder with rechargeable battery compact & efficient.

manx long tail
5th Oct 2001, 15:18
Once you've levered the offending clamp off the wheel and fitted your spare, why not 'bite the bullet' and accept it might cost a little bit but there is stil fun to be had...

...don't throw the clamp away or even take it with you (risking theft charges) instead bolt it onto a lampost and let them try and get it off, if they damage your lock, have them charged with criminal damage!

FIGHT BACK AND LET MAPLC REALIZE WHAT AN INCONSIDERATE BUNCH OF W*NKERS THEY REALLY ARE!

doubledolphins
5th Oct 2001, 18:54
My parking place was moved when my "office" moved. I did not ask for this. I only found this out yesterday when an observant colleague informed me that one of our number had been clamped.When I read the small print on the permit I realised I was parked "illegally". My point is that for the last year, when the barriers were down,I was admitted to the car park by the key card that I have held for years. Would clamping me be illegal as the airport authority had admitted me in the first place? Any one care to comment?

4 of 7
6th Oct 2001, 00:20
When are they going to clamp the b*st*rds in Staff West at MAN who regularly park over the double yellows, this makes driving out/in hazardous and walking to/from the bus dangerous.

I hope they make a bomb of money from these thoughtless, selfish, lazy people, there ARE spaces, but they're a little further away.