View Full Version : What's with the term "command?"
Got my "command." Two years till "command."
The correct term is "CAPTAIN." Stop degrading yourselves!
:cool:
filejw
23rd Apr 2009, 21:24
Its European or UK thing...get over it, just different way to use the same language..
"A commander is responsible for mission success, and safety of crew, passengers, and aircraft.
A captain can be a head waiter in a restaurant."
Funny, then, how in all airline stories I've read always refer to "Captain So and so" rather than "Commander So and so..." Commander sounds like some kind of Star Trek fantasy.
Did not know it was strictly a UK thing.
Yes, I'm bored. Time to shake things up a bit. What better way than to make fun of Yank/British terms? :ok:
Chesty Morgan
23rd Apr 2009, 23:16
Captain is the rank. Commanding is the job.
rodthesod
23rd Apr 2009, 23:48
Well Yank, you degrade youself by your lack of 'command' of the English language.
JonnyTheCrayfish
24th Apr 2009, 00:02
Command also used in the military - because of the obvious reason that a captain can still be only a co-pilot. And seeing that commercial aviation came after and flowed out of military aviation, only makes sense that the term would be used, now doesn't it..?
Trivia anyway, does it really matter???
BelArgUSA
24th Apr 2009, 00:29
Captain Smith and Captain Jones fly together today.
Who is in command...? On the flight plan, it says PIC = Smith...
Captain Smith is then the commander.
Or maybe that is the way they decided - "You fly out, I fly back...?"
Many different way airlines do. Seniority is another way.
xxx
When I worked in the USA, they called me "Captain X..."
In Belgium, or France, I was introduced as "Commandant X..."
In South America, I was at times "Comandante" - or "Capitán"...
xxx
:8
Happy contrails
LOL thanks gents for a fun discussion.
"Commander Captain Commandant aa73"
rogerg
24th Apr 2009, 05:33
I always liked "Skipper" best, usualy from some grizzled engineer.
Rainboe
24th Apr 2009, 11:34
I think it's time we incorporated 'Admiral' somewhere in aviation. Add a 'Grand.....' in front of that like the First World War Admirals and we're getting somewhere. You can go a bit OTT with '....of the Fleet' afterwards. Once people get used to that, there is another step.......the big one.....'Sea Lord'. How about 'Air Lord.....'? I can quite see 'Air Lord, Grand Admiral of the Fleet Commander-Captain Rainboe VC (the VC stands for 'Very Cross').
kenparry
24th Apr 2009, 11:38
Rainboe:
I thought only the Russians went in for that degree of exaggerations in their titles!
KP
Rainboe
24th Apr 2009, 12:31
Exaggeration? Speak for yourself!
The Russians go for chestfuls of medals, and magnificent large military hats, like super large giant pizzas on top of an ordinary hat. No room for those in a 737 flight deck (unfortunately).
GroundedSLF
24th Apr 2009, 12:41
aa73 wrote "Funny, then, how in all airline stories I've read always refer to "Captain So and so" rather than "Commander So and so..." Commander sounds like some kind of Star Trek fantasy."
Totally ridiculous - we all know its Captain Kirk
Commander Kirk...whatever next!
Personally, I respond very well to: Your left most forward shipness ;)
boardingpass
24th Apr 2009, 15:29
As an FA speaking, what I really need is a better title for an FO. If I forget the captain's name, it's easy... "Aye aye, Cap'n." But when you forget the FO's name.... "no worries, mate" just sounds a little informal to me...
Left Coaster
24th Apr 2009, 15:46
I think the Kirk unit became "Admiral" for a while didn't he?
Exaviator
27th Apr 2009, 02:39
In the Navy a Commander is one rank below Captain. Three bars rather than four.:sad:!!!!!
Old Smokey
27th Apr 2009, 03:36
In the Navy a Commander is one rank below Captain. Three bars rather than four.
Yesssss, I want to be a Commander. The Captains never get the girls, only the lower ranks!!!:(
Regards,
Old Smokey
Got my "command" sounds better than got my "captaincy" (?) don't you think?
Certainly do.
Then we have...Pilot in Command
Second in Command.
On my airplane, we have a Third in Command, aka Flight Engineer.
Occasionally referred to as 'the plumber' but this is generally ignored.:}
Then we have the 'Command course' or 'Command upgrade course'.
Now, just what is the Commander?
He heads up the show, and certainly the best way to accomplish this task is to delegate as much responsibility as possible.
Example.
The Second in Command checks the weather, plog, notams, payload etc, and then decides on the fuel required.
He always adds a bit more simply because he knows that the Commander would do likewise.
He then loads the FMS and checks this against the plog.
Meanwhile, the Third in Command (aka, Flight Engineer) checks with the maintenance folks to be sure everything is ship-shape, confirms the fuel uplift, does the external inspection, completes the takeoff data card, and finally...completes the load/trim sheet.
Also, there is other activity going on in the cabin, headed up by the Cabin Captain.
She (or he, as the case may be) readies the cabin for the passengers, checks the catering, makes sure the emergency equipment is properly accounted for...and all the other usual arrangements.
Now, this is an ideal arrangement.
Why, you may ask?
Simply because....
It allows the COMMANDER to sit back, read the newspaper, and sip coffee/tea.
Or, have a brief snooze, if desired.
Works as advertised, nearly every time.:ok:
Old Smokey
29th Apr 2009, 04:26
Where I come from the First Officer is Second in Command. Nobody refers to the F/O as "Second Captain", "Deputy Captain" and such like. We probably don't refer to him/her as that because an F/O is not a Captain in the first place.
When I take a quick "loo break", my parting words to the F/O are, "You have Control, You have Command!:ok:
Much ado about nothing......................
Regards,
Old Smokey
Centaurus
30th Apr 2009, 05:26
no worries, mate" just sounds a little informal to me...
Not really. Remember it all came from nautical terms. First Mate is another name for First Officer. Second Mate for Second Officer -and so on. In the Navy (Fleet Air Arm) the bloke standing by the aircraft for engine start was called "Pilot's Mate.". You could also call a F/O "Number One". For example: "Good morning, No.1 - have you got the pre-flight completed yet etc."
AvEnthusiast
30th Apr 2009, 07:24
Anhanh! All this "captain" and "commander", "3 bars" and "4 bars" made me think of those working in General aviation and those instructors carrying those golden 4 bars on their shoulders and being called captain, what happens to them when they move to airline industry? They are downgraded from golden 4 bars (which can be considered an insult) or it's better they don't wear those or the term captain shouldn't be used for them?
fireflybob
30th Apr 2009, 10:40
UK legislation (ANO etc) talks about, for example, Preflight action of the COMMANDER of an a/c.....
COF&COE
30th Apr 2009, 18:21
They are downgraded from golden 4 bars (which can be considered an insult) or it's better they don't wear those or the term captain shouldn't be used for them?
Many years ago after a certain airline merger and subsequent rather acrimonious seniority rehash, a few Captains were demoted back to F/O and 3 stripes. Most of them just shrugged (thats life) and got on with the job.
However a couple of the guys with big egos were so enraged with this great indignity that they always wore their raincoats over their jackets, even in the height of summer!:E
Old Smokey
1st May 2009, 04:59
I just retrieved my next month's roster from the company web site.
On some long flights I'm shown as CMD (Commander), and on others as CPT (Captain), so wherein lies the difference?
In a double crew operation, 2 Captains and 2 F/Os, someone must be "the boss", no room for democracy between the two Captains, so one of them is designated as COMMANDER.
There's other variations, where I'm shown as AU. (2 Captains and 1 F/O). For a decode of AU, refer to the Periodic Table of Elements -
AU = I'm worth my weight in Gold :ok:
Regards,
Old Smokey (Sometimes Commander, Sometimes Captain, and sometimes worth his weight in gold).
Exaviator
1st May 2009, 05:07
A matter of semantics after all. The job that you are doing is being in Command of the aircraft and its crew. The rank that you hold is Captain!!!!
Kinda like in Old Smokeys case we had that happen during linechecks. The TRE doing the linecheck from the jumpseat was usually the assigned commander of the flight while the captain occupying the left seat was just the captain, but not the commander.
Apology for reviving an old thread. (Well a week old anyway).
Where have the terms CM1, CM2 come from?
EG. CM1 headset inop.
This has started to appear mainly, from my experience, on middle eastern carriers.
I first came across it about 18 months ago and had to ask the er, chap sat at the front on the left, what it meant as it was in the tech log and no one knew what it meant. :confused::confused:
Exaviator
12th May 2009, 04:06
It comes from Airlines that use computerised tracking of crew duties where you can have up to four or five crew members on a flight. SIA was airline that used it. :ok:
galaxy flyer
13th May 2009, 02:11
At the Eastern Airlines KATL base, it was
Sir, Bubba and Boy for a three-man crew. So, the pre-departure routine was:
"Bubba, get us a clearance to Miami."
"Yes, Sir."
Boy, we could use a cup of coffee after you put another log on the fire."
No pretense in the Southland, if you understood who was boss.
GF
gas path
13th May 2009, 12:01
Commander, Captain? I always thought that the CSD/Purser was in charge of the aircraft:confused:
:E:E
I always thought that the CSD/Purser was in charge of the aircraft
Had one like that, one time.
Tossed his sorry backside off at the first stop.
The company?
Sent him a don't come Monday letter.:D
Kiltie
22nd May 2009, 12:46
"Skipper" :yuk:
...gives me visions of a happy-go-lucky cap-doffed-to-one-side Para-Handy type character.
"2 years to my command" :mad:
The expectant arrogance of this is self explanatory.
I would only expect to be called Captain at work by someone who doesn't know my name and is trying to summonse my attention. I have been known to shout "Dispatcher?!" across GPU noise if I am trying to catch someone I don't know. Want of a better term is always preferred :\ so open to ideas. I am too unfit to break in to a sprint and my shins show too many scars from trying to vacate a flight deck too quickly!
"I always thought that the CSD/Purser was in charge of the aircraft "
Don't laugh! Sadly this opinion is rife, albeit innocently. It's an unfortunate reflection of how some Captains don't recognise the benefits of briefing / liaising / asking the cabin crew when they would like to board / what facilities they need in the interests of good CRM. To have the privilege of commanding the operation as a whole means to embrace the concept of offering respect and assistance to those on board with other responsibilities.
I've lost count of the amount of times a Purser has instructed the dispatcher to board passengers and sent him away without notifying his presence to the Captain. Red faces all round when the Captain then notifies the cabin crew the aeroplane has a tech fault.
seejonfly
29th May 2009, 04:51
The whole thing boils down to someone has to be in command thus the term Pilot In Command. The legal types have to know who to go after in the event an untoward event happens. Usually in air carrier operations this is spelled out in the paperwork for the flight. Unfortunately, in general aviation it is not spelled out and sometimes you can become PIC and not realize it. Happened to a friend many years ago. Robert was a CFI and was asked to just right around the pattern a couple of times with another mutual friend. Turned out the guy who asked Robert to ride with him was not current and lost control of the aircraft on the 2nd circuit striking several taxi lights. Since Robert was the only pilot who was current and qualified he was the PIC and caught a bunch of grief.
Just be careful!
Jon