Stripes/Bars??

[tarasky]

What do the the stripes/bars on one's uniform represent?
Some new f/o's have two, some have three. Captains wear four generally and I have heard of some airline's captains that wear five??
Thanks.

[Nightrider]

0 stripes = knows where the coffee machine is
1 stripe = knows how to order coffee
2 stripes = knows where to get papers and docs for flight
3 stripes = knows someone who gets the papers and docs
4 stripes = knows someone who can read the checklists and start engines
5 stripes or 4 stripes with a circle = knows someone who can be blamed if something goes wrong.

Sorry, couldn't resist :}

It all depends on the country (culture) and the company. In general, 4 stripes are for captain, 3 stripes for first officer, 2 stripes are not used everywhere, they indicate usually a F/O under training.

[A Very Civil Pilot]

From the airlines I have worked for:

1= Ops department
2= First Officer or Second Officer
3= Senior First Officer (either through experience, or assessed as command suitable), or First Officer
4= Captain
5= Never seen them!

[mad_jock]

2 stripes are not used everywhere, they indicate usually a F/O under training

The BA FO's are going to love you :p

[FlyUK]

After 3 years at BA I have 2 stripes, till year 4. My mate who joined Flybe at the same time I joined BA has just got his command (4 bars).

Its all down to the company, not always a sign of knowledge/competence/ability. Even the 'newbies' to BA who may have thousands of hours ex RAF or another carrier will have 2 bars for four years.

ATB.

[Old Smokey]

I think that it's pretty universal that 4 Bars = Captain, but 1,2, and 3 Bars depend largely upon the operator.

In SIA, it's as follows -

1 Bar = Second Officer, cannot operate unless a fully qualified First Officer is also present on the Flight Deck.

2 Bars = Junior First Officer, fully qualified.

3 Bars = Senior First Officer (nominally after 4 years as F/O).

In some airlines 3 Bars = Captain on a non-jet aircraft. When I once did a ferry flight of a Turbo-Prop from the U.K. to Australia, the company gave us 4 Bars on "temporary" loan, with the rationale that in most other countries nobody took any notice of anyone wearing less than 4 Bars.:}

About the 5 Bars, where can I get them? :ok:

Regards,

Old Smokey

[point8six]

OS - 5 bars? Try CHIJMES.;)

[Old Smokey]

Oh dammit point8six, I thought that the fifth bar was where the F/O paid his fines in beers for all the mistakes made.:ok:

Come to think of it, bad idea, these days I'll be buying all the beers for the F/O for all the times that he has saved my ass.:uhoh:

Regards,

Old Smokey

[balajinaidoo]

i never seen 5 at all
wonder what that means
captains of captains
or you wear it the day before retirement??

[Nicholas49]

Does a line training captain and a type-rating examiner wear four bars too?

If so, and the captain undergoing training/assessment also wears four, how would you tell who is in command on the flight deck? Would you just have to know who is who?

I realise it's a bit of an academic question!

[ecj]

Captains have 4 bars.

A training captain in the RHS [ in charge] will also have 4 bars,
with the trainee captain [4 bars] in the LHS making the decisions as if they were in charge [under supervision]. Does that make sense ?

Don't ask about line checks will you !! :ok:

[rogerg]

The one who is looking relaxed is the line training/check captain!

[Brian Abraham]

Flipping through a book on Oz aviation during the pre-war period last night and what stood out was all Captains (and Chief Pilots) have only three bars. Were we colonials some what backward in the sartorial stakes at the time, or was that the standard world wide, and if so, why/when the change to four?

[powerstall]

5 bars??... wanna get me one of those! hehe i'll look it up on ebay! :E

[balajinaidoo]

i think wearing 5 bars will be ugly
pilots wont look anymore hot in those

[Exaviator]

Back in the 60s (TAA & Ansett) remember them ? We had two grades of Captain. Grade 1 wore three bars and flew the smaller aircraft (DC3, F27 & Viscount) and Grade 2 Captains wore three bars and flew anything larger. (Electra & B727). Senior executive Captains (Check Pilots etc) could be distinguished by the scrambled egg on their caps.

Likewise we had Grade 1 & Grade 2 F/Os who wore one or two stripes respectively. :confused:

[Nicholas49]

ecj - thanks for clarifying.
rogerg - yes, that must be it!

Nick

[Old Smokey]

Exaviator,

You bring back fond memories of the TAA and Ansett days of the Sixties (and beyond to their demise). Therein also lies a possible "origin" of the fifth bar.

Actually it was not a bar, but a symbol. Management Captains, in addition to the regulatory 4 bars had an additional symbol, in TAA's case it was a 6 pointed star, much like the Star of David. (I don't know of any connection between El Al and TAA).

Whilst we're strolling down the TAA memories lane, let's not forget two and a half bars, First Officers in command of a single pilot aircraft less than 5700 Kg / 12,500 Lb, Twin Otter, Dove etc......

Regards,

Old Smokey

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Here are mine:


http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_thumb.php?img=images/5%20bar%20eppauette.JPG&w=225&h=168

[Abacus]

Talking of stripes, can anyone confirm the history of engineers stripes having purple between the gold. Story goes it is in memory of the engineers on the Titanic.

Thanks:ok:

[smudgethecat]

Its a common belief but no it goes back further, heres a bit of info
Titanic Engineers (http://www.uco.es/~ff1mumuj/titanic1.htm#Purple)

[Kelly Hopper]

5 Bars

I heard months back that Qantas were to give their Skippers on the A380 five bars!!!!!!!!! :uhoh:

[Abacus]

Thanks 'Smudge' for the link.

Very interesting article on the final minutes of the Titanic, and putting right a commonly help belief!

[Exaviator]

"Whilst we're strolling down the TAA memories lane, let's not forget two and a half bars, First Officers in command of a single pilot aircraft less than 5700 Kg / 12,500 Lb, Twin Otter, Dove etc......"

Yes I used to wear a pair flying the Twotter in TPNG back in 66. Who said that I had Alzeimers...............:D

[BelArgUSA]

Stripes -
2 stripes are more than 1... 3 are more than 2, and 4 are more than 3 stripes.
So... what is the question...? All airlines have different policies.
xxx
The origin of stripes (and ranks) goes back to merchant marine uniforms.
As an example, PanAm wore uniforms easy to confuse with US Navy uniforms.
4 stripes for captains (or first officers qualified with captain type rating).
3 stripes for first officers. 2 stripes for second officers (cruise co-pilots).
Flight engineers had 3 stripes, two "wide" stripes and a narrow stripe.
Various combinations - and policies did change too.
xxx
I personally called "captain" any pilot with 4 stripes.
Some chief pilots or check captains had a "star" above their 4 stripes.
xxx
Ranks are never a problem, EXCEPT when operating at remote locations.
If you try (say as 2 striper) to get assistance on ramp from a local agent with 3 stripes.
Some areas (Africa-Asia-So.America) had that problem. They ignored your requests.
So a good idea was to send your F/E around the plane on ramp and him borrow your 4 stripes.
Was the only way to get the attention from some of these rampers.
xxx
In some nations, "basic training" of airline staff is "you have more stripes, so you are the top guy"...!
xxx
:rolleyes:
Happy contrails

[Bullethead]

In the military the rank structure sometimes has little to do with the command structure on the flight deck, this can lead to amusing situations at times such as once when I was a two striper in the Airforce rank structure but also the aircraft Captain, my F/O was a squadron leader with two and a half stripes and my 'second officer' was a wing commander, three stripes.

We pulled ap at Singapore/Changhi in a B707 and after shutdown the local handling agent came to the flight deck with some 'official' paperwork to be signed and looked around at all the stripes and picked the wing commander, who had the most, and handed him the paperwork. He said he wasn't the Captain so the squadron leader was handed the papers, he also said he wasn't the Captain so I as the Captain, with the least number of stripes, eventually got to autograph the paperwork.

Regards,
BH.

[727gm]

In the USA, generally:

4 stripes = Captain

3 stripes = First Officer (copilot)

3 stripes = pilot-rated Flight Engineer(second officer).... (some places: P.F.E's also)

2 stripes = non-pilot Flight Engineer (PFE) ....(& some places: Mechanics also)

1 stripe = non-cockpit types - loadmaster/mechanic/F.A., etc (rare)

[AvEnthusiast]

Good one BelArg. I liked the ramp handling thing. But I have seen 3 and 4 bars silver then what's that?

[BelArgUSA]

AvEnthusiast -
xxx
Yes, try to get an external power unit to your airplane, if you have 2 stripes.
And the guy you request it from has 3 stripes and only speaks Urdu or Pushtu.
Worse, his AK-47 is bigger than your 2 D-Cell flashlight... Happy Ariana...!
xxx
Reminds me of a situation in Karachi in the 1970s...
Guards were instructed that only valid ID for ramp access were with red background picture.
They could not read, only recognize an ID picture color background...
xxx
Or try to take picture with your camera of your landing gear tyre damage.
Just trying to join a picture to your report.
You might be a spy, and attempt to picture that Antonov AN-2 nearby.
xxx
Silver or gold...?
Well, some airlines use gold stripes, some do silver.
Airline uniforms come in many colors, navy blue... black... what else...?
I recall a USA cargo airline - Evergreen - using black uniform stripes...!
When I flew cargo, inside the plane, my uniform was blue jeans and T-shirt...
xxx
:suspect:
Happy contrails

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Silver, Gold, Platinum... even Blue! Different airlines... different colours.

[AvEnthusiast]

BelArg. you really made me laugh today. It seems you have first hand experience of the so called areas. Stay safe.

[tarasky]

Thanks for all your reactions guys!
Good response!

[Nightrider]

Wasn't there Debonair in the UK with designer grey uniforms????

TUI uses silver stripes....

[sahat sondang]

amazing..mw dream use it..hahahaha