French freeze Easy out of Paris

[Unwell_Raptor]

The French authorities obviously don't want nasty foreign competition:

<a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,5-2002065782,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,5-2002065782,00.html</a>

[gholder]

Cant say I blame them..perhaps they could go to Beauvais,advertise it as being Paris,and safe a fortune...and everyone would be happier.

[newswatcher]

What the Times article failed to quantify was that easyJet actually got four routes from Charles de Gaulle and three daily flights from Orly to Switzerland. Easyjet is reviewing the use of the CDG slots, and has not decided whether the Orly destination will be Zurich or Geneva.

[LAVDUMPER]

The French are scared to compete - it's that simple...

Scared, out-of-touch, elitest French bureaucrats made this decision... It is anti-competitive and hurts the French PUBLIC in the end - but the bureaucrats are too short-sighted to see the obvious...

. .Good luck to EasyJet and others who try to break down the bureaucratic fortress known as FRANCE.

I am waving my WHITE FLAG in salute to France...

[highlandman]

To LAVDUMPER,. .I don't says the French should do that but at least if you work in France you are not used as you are in company like Ryanair. Yoy don't have to paid for your type rating...... .I think the French can see that coming very fast and they only want to protect themselves.. .It is understandable, isn't it?

[Mr Moustache]

I hope Stelios keeps the pressure up as I was looking forward to a few Paris nightstops! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Young Paul]

I said it before ... Orly eats British Airlines.

Even if you get in there, French people do not regard themselves as "European", and will behave in a partisan fashion. If you want to get ahead in France, have a separate French management, and French crews and staff.

Incidentally, I would not regard this as a racist post, nor am I blaming the French for this attitude. Would many British people fly on a French owned, speaking airline from Luton or Stansted? Or German owned? That's just what people are like. Poysanally, I have people I would count as friends who are nationals of various European countries.

[HOODED]

Groggs, seem to remember hearing that Brittania/YUI are partly French/German owned, and don't they fly from LTN/LSS? Still good luck to Easy I hope they are able to sort out French access.

It's dificult to soar with eagles when you work with turkeys!

[MaximumPete]

If the French government hadn't continued to fund Air France illegally, as it has done for years, the airline would have been down the pan years ago.

Now they see a threat from Easy so guess what?

They will never change!

MP <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[LAVDUMPER]

Highlandman,

Your response excludes any thoughts about the benefits to the French public of increased competition... They would benefit from more CHOICE and LOWER fares. Can you understand that?

Sure, French bureaucrats want to protect French jobs - but at the expense of public choice and competition that would likely force the French airlines to IMPROVE themselves to compete better...

Your argument is ambiguous at best.

We don't care about your problems with Ryanair employment - we care about increasing competition, reducing fares for the French public, and improving French airline operating costs (they would need to become leaner and more cost-competitive to compete with EasyJet, GO, Buzz or Ryanair)...

But the French apparently don't care about the potential for lower fares for the public at large... Meanwhile watch for the French airlines (especially AirLib) to become more indebted and continue to grow their bloated employee lists - the more things change, the more they stay the SAME.......

. .Cheers

[Luke Mc]

Hello. .Any possiblity of a Liverpool route with the CDG slots?

[Herod]

A certain British airline that flies yellow aeroplanes is starting French domestic routes for the summer. I'm looking forward to the cat 3 approaches through the smoke from the lambs being burnt at the end of the runway! Seriously though, apparently the cities concerned are all for it, a good, low-cost, no frills service. Air France has responded by withdrawing our interline agreement.

[Nightstop]

Hey Herod, don't forget the mint sauce to go with the roast lamb :) Also try and obtain a French translation of your MEL...the DGAC seem to be taking a keen interest in them these days and their English isn't too good!. .Bonne chance mon ami jaune <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Krueger]

Hey Guys! Reality check! Who cares about competition, lower fares, etc, etc. That's only good when the profit is on your side. Let's put aside all those hipocrit issues and talk about what's really on our minds. After all, aren't we all pilots. And when foreign pilots are flying on british airlines, don't you get all itchy?. .Check six... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[brain fade]

Thank Fugg for the French. If only the brits would adopt a similar toughminded attitude!!!! <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ( on seconds thought, lets just let them pi** all over us) after all, whats a national airline worth anyway? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Few Cloudy]

Well I dunno,

Flew to ORY for years for a non French airline - non French crews, non French station manager and non French mechanics but with French pax handling.

There were five flights a day and I can recall no problems (except the weather broadcasts - few cloudy at 1,600 feet...)

Plenty of other carriers went in there too. Seems a bit of rubbish is being put out above.

[wallabie]

Lavdumper

Do I read Beverly Hills ??. .No wonder your insights about the french market are a bit hazy to say the least.. .Air France State funded for years ?? . .Once, in 1993 with the Brussel's commission's blessing and that of Sir What's his name again, got it Leon Brittan.. .Prior to that Air France hadn't received a dime from its main share holder for about 10 years.. .When BA was floated, its books were dripping with red inks and guess what, the pommie government just wrote it off to start on the right foot. So, spare me !. .There is an extensive and very efficient speed train system that has taken more than 30 % of the market on destinations like Marseille, so thank you, the french travelling public has access to the cheapest fares in Europe and on the most effecient system, I'll be bold, in the world. But appart from the Hill billies, you wouldn't know.. .Easy jet kept out ?? Better twice than once if it can be done. Those guys flying for Air Lib won't getting jobs in Bev when they bite the dust, so they hang on. You want to give them your job, feel free mate !. .I don't think the US is any qualified to lecture the world about fair competition. . .It's Boeing heavily subsidised through military programs etc ....and the list of two faced double standards could go on forever.. .Enjoy the California sun.

[flyblue]

Thanks Wallabie.. .And I'll add that the French are not all as dumb as to believe that lowering all the possible standards in civil aviation could possibly be any kind of improvement for anybody (except for desperate wannabies seeking a first job), especially the workers, that as we read every day in Pprune are squeezed to the bone and then thrown away without even a decent retirement pension. . .France has had, as Wallabie pointed out, its "low fare" in a more intelligent way. . .I myself moved to France because it is one of the last places where workers are treated as human beings.. .And what is for AF, businessman keep flying in a company that meets their needs and they are ready to pay for it. See the "Navette" program etc.

[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: flyblue ]</p>

[In trim]

Watch this space. easy are unlikely to roll over and simply accept what they've been given.

Air Lib were due to hand back 20,000 slots as a condition of their re-structure, but have only handed back 12,000. 2,000 of these held on to for public service routes.

Press conference in Paris this Tuesday. I'm sure easyJet will take the opportunity to stir things up a bit!

[Doctor Cruces]

It's nothing new. The french freeze everything out of France that they consider a threat to French profits or way of life, (British beef/lamb) along with ignoring worldwide embargos when it suits (arms to South Africa) them and blowing up Greenpeace ships in foreign ports when it suits them.

It's called looking out for number one no matter what anyone else says or thinks and they are even better than America at that.

They've done it for years and I suspect they will continue forever.

Wish Britain was a bit more like them sometimes!

Doc C.

[wallabie]

Doc

We would have to go a very long way to match the US hypocrisy when it comes to liberal economy.. .I don't see the point to let people like Easy jet or Ryanair enter the french market given the way they treat they potential employees. If you think a pilot deserves to be treated the way Ryanair treats its applicants I think you need a carrer change, like coal mining for example, or sewing jeans in a sweat shop.. .Even here things are not as rosy as you might think. Air Lib pilots are being told by the very man who led the 1998 Air France strike that they are a bunch of good for nothing lot and much too expensive on top of that. I don't think we need Stellios or the other Jocker to add to our misery.. .Let's see what happens next week.

How do some people find sleep at night is beyhond me.

[Scottie]

Wallabie,

Just how do easyJet treat their potential employees? I applied using the online application form and got the job. Same way one would apply to BA, bmi, go, Virgin etc etc

easyJet and Ryanair are two completely different companies. Before you open your mouth learn some facts.......

Your ignorance shows...... <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[flyblue]

Wallabie,. .si tu es de langue Française ce serait sympa de t'avoir sur le Forum Français.. .Si tu veux emaile moi.. .A +!

[In trim]

Agree with Scottie.....don't assume Ryanair and easyJet treat their staff (or potential recruits) in the same way.

[1261]

Nonsense! All that Joe Public cares about is how much the tickets cost, followed a distant second by whether or not the flight leaves on time!

Be honest, for most European routes (1-3 hours) little else is a factor.

And frankly, I don't care what language the crews speak.

Better to just be damned good at your job than to rely on bureaucrats to keep you in work.

[flyblue]

No 1261, those who bring the big £££, the businessman, DO care about all that can be offered by a good organization such as leaving on time, connections, meals on board (often it is their only chance of having a meal before rushing to a meeting).

[wallabie]

Scottie

Get nicked !!!. .Ryanair and Easy BELONG to the very same category of employers. Like it or not, you obviously don't !. .Yes the french government is trying to keep them or maybe you ? out by turning Air Lib into a french low cost, therefore french jobs, french contracts and ..........low fares for the French travelling public you seem to care so much about. Your concern brings tears to their eyes.

Now, you might want to maybe get a job there or is it the Paris posting you were after ?. .Just like there are a couple of frogs at BA, there are a couple of Brits and Irish at Air France. In both cases these people didn't see fit to mould the world to their childish dreams but got on with it and learned whichever language it tool to get the position they wanted.. .Maybe that's an alley you might want to explore ?

1261

Lordie, Lord !!. .Are you saying we got it all wrong serving meals, giving hundreds of connections a day with facilities like waiting lounge equiped with all the gismos the perfect businessman needs and ( now this reallly gives me cold sweat !!!) FRECNH SPEAKING CREWS ????!!!!!. .I beg you ! Write ASAP to

Jean Cyril Spinetta. Chairman of the board.. .Charles de Gaulle Airport

Let him know what a twitt he is to pursue this course of action, our very survival depends on it.. .While you're at it, write to the Financial Time and let them know that writing the raving review they wrote about how well AF is doing is not only misinformation but plain abuse of the travelling public and small investors.. .I'll never thank you enough for opening my eyes.

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: wallabie ]</p>

[Luke Mc]

Any news on EZYs due press conference in Paris?

[flypastpastfast]

Fly blue,

Couldn't agree with you more re points made by 1261 (not personal, by the way).

For example take a close enough look at the Ryanair website, and you will find they do not recommend customers purchase through tickets, and if you do they suggest at least three hours (?)should be allowed between the arrival of one, and the departure of the other. They also point out they accept no responsibility whatsoever if one sector is late and the connecting flight is lost, i.e you would need to buy a new ticket!

It is fine for a single sector to consider someone like easyjet or ryanair, but to busy businessmen where TIME is MORE money than the savings on a budget ticket, then connectivity is king. That is why so many (and there are lots) are still happy to fly with airlines such as Air France, BA, BMI etc.....

The key element here is choice. If one traveller chooses to fly BA and pay £300 for a ticket that's fine, equally so if someone chooses to book in advance and get a ticket for £20.. But, for some strange reason (nothing to do with making more money, then?), the budget airlines find it necessary to criticise those passengers who pay £300. It's their money to spend as they wish.

On a final point, BA and other airlines do not design, build and open business lounges on a whim, the demand is very extensively researched.

[1261]

I respectfully take onboard all the above posts. I am not in airline management; I fully accept that I'm not the world's leading expert on airline economics.

I must say however, that I think you've missed my point. What I'm saying is that there is absolutely no point in ARTIFICIALLY keeping the low cost carriers out of the market. If the businessman still wants to pay €300 for all the facilities you mention, then the market will support his doing so. What happens at the moment (at many airports) is that the rest of us end up subsidizing him - which is in my opinion plain, straightforward wrong!