TAP flight off course on approach to CPH

[Dutch Bru]

According to the Portuguese quality daily PUBLICO passengers on a TAP flight on approach for CPH on Sunday night "feared the worst".

Passengers told to a Danish television station something was wrong when they saw the Danish national opera building in the very centre of Copenhagen from an very low altitude.

Other passengers stated that something was wrong in the approach on noticing that the aircraft was heading straight into the cargo terminal of CPH, upon which the TAP aircraft made a go-around at a very late stage of the approach.

According to a spokesperson for CPH airport "everything remained under control and the landing aircraft was never in real danger", although it was declared that the TAP aircraft was off course for landing and when ATC noticed this, the crew was "advised to abort the approach and to make a new landing attempt".

According to Danish sources CPH ATC has submitted a safety issue report which is expected to be analysed.

The CPH airport authorities stated further that while ILS was functional the TAP crew elected to do excecute a visual, during which the aircraft descended too low and was off track for the designated runway. CPH airport authorities stated that the approach was "unstablised".

A spokesperson for TAP stated however that the situation that alarmed passengers was "normal". According to TAP the crew was flying a VFR approach when the crew realised they were off course and altitude for the landing, so they elected to perform a go-around and the aircraft was "not at any moment in danger".

[jmig29]

Looks to me that just because the passengers aren't used to see buildings that close, is a long way to the point in which "something went wrong".

Being portuguese, they should be used to land at Lisbon, Funchal and others difficult places. Looks like they have choose to VFR, and then came a time (safe enough, I should say) where they decided to GA and then IFR.

Nothing to it, really!

[Dutch Bru]

I know about all these interesting landings in Portugal, no sweat.

I don't think its Portuguese passengers complaining about the closeness of the Danish national opera building or the CPH cargo terminal and telling Danish television about this. I haven't seen anything but sea and the longest "over-sea bidge" when coming in for CPH until now. Certainly no city centre buildings "close up".

So, even if there isn't too much "about it", it looks like this one is highly unusual, even if I respect TAP crew a lot. I really like to fly with them all over the place and I very frequently do so already for more years than I can count.

[jmig29]

Fair enough.

I don't know the CPH airport, the conditions when this happened, so it looks like you have more data than me.

Maybe you're right and I'm not.

But I still believe in the vast majority of these pilots.

[jmig29]

Do you have any info on the wind direction that day?

[Dutch Bru]

OK. But look, for me this is nothing against TAP crew, on the contrary. Its just an occurence if more light is shed on it may be helpful for other crew.

Ekvipagemestervej 10 Copenhagen - Google Maps (http://maps.google.be/maps?hl=fr&q=Ekvipagemestervej+10+Copenhagen&ie=UTF8&ll=55.654348,12.615051&spn=0.094137,0.246162&z=12)

The above link should give an idea that the opera building (marked as A) is not really into any flightpath (at least not at low altitude close to the airport) to any of the runways.

CPH weather below gives me at least the indication that the most used runway 22L was likely to be in use:

ID: EKCH Koebenhavn\Kast, DN
REPORT TIME: 19 20:40
VALID TIME: 19 April AT 21:00Z to 20 April AT 21:00Z.
INITIAL WX
WIND: VARIABLE AT 3
WEATHER: CAVOK
WX BECOMING FROM 12Z TO 14Z
WINDS: 190 AT 8
COMMENTS: =

[jmig29]

Let me see what I can dig up from my contacts at TAP line maint engrs. From the publicity, they will likely want to talk to each other (with the crews, I mean, they're the best to shed some light on this). :ok:

[Teddy Robinson]

it does however appear to be in the ballpark for a visual left base for RW 22L/R.

Far be it for me to comment further :=

[Dutch Bru]

Fair enough, the "opera" is roughly 4 NM north of CPH, while a right hand circuit from that point would take a cool 16 to 18 NM to the threshold of 22L. So it depends on the altitude the Danish passsengers saw the opera on approach. And of course on the heading of the aircraft at the time. In connection with the latter it is good to bear in mind that passengers also reported the plane heading straight for the CPH cargo area, which if I'm not mistaken is just north of 22L as well. In this case I tend to trust passengers that make a point to speak to a TV station about their experiences. Although, returning to my frequent experiences when flying to LIS, at TAP they know about cutting the left turn there quite short sometimes (including continuous speedbrakes deployed in the turn even when the engines on autothrottle rev up in doing so, interesting no?), which is accentuated by the contrasting occasions when there is an exegarated long turn over the Atlantic Ocean and Serra de Arrabida.

[Nemrytter]

I saw the aircraft last night (I live just to the north west of the opera house and was having a beer on my balcony). It looked noticably different from the other landings at around that time, the heading was more or less the same but it appeared a fair bit closer to me than the other planes. It's hard to estimate the distance, but maybe 1-2nm, certainally not less than that and probably not much more - else it would've flown overhead.

Of course it's not too easy to judge these things accurately from the ground, so take my views with a pinch of salt.

Apart from the position everything looked pretty much normal. The only thing that made me take notice is when I saw it a few minutes later off to the other side of me.

[fc101]

Sounds strange...I've had a few interesting landings at CPH with some particularly nice views of the city and the odd sharp turn on short finals...non-event I guess

fc101
E145 Driver

[oceancrosser]

...reported the plane heading straight for the CPH cargo area, which if I'm not mistaken is just north of 22L as well.


The cargo area is in the Southeast corner of the airport, south of 22L threshold. Maintenance and hardstands to the north.

[misd-agin]

Teddy - "it does however appear to be in the ballpark for a visual left base for RW 22L/R."

Exactly.

[pineridge]

Occasionally atc at CPH will issue a visual right base for 22R. If he got himself a bit close that would put the aircraft over the city and more or less on a heading for the cargo area.
Or he screwed up.

[jmig29]

Very much doubt a pilot would screw it up... :=

[Der_dk.]

The pax probaly saw the opera from 3000´ At least that is what you are normally cleared down on a Visual until you have passed the coastline whereafter the descent is unrestricted. This is Noise abatement, and the ATC would normally call you if you are too low.
This is in normal conditions...How it was on this particular day, time will show...

Regards

[alkatifa]

Too much fuss because of the media, as usual.

Just my 2 cents.

[gdnhalley]

Looks about right to me for a visual, but surely right base.

[plain-plane]

a visual that ended up too tight, leading to a GA. not sure what gate they use..500ft?

just think of a pax looking out the window, AC on really tight visual still banking at 600ft followed by a G/A at maybe 500ft...

that might just come across as scary...

Lets say a visual went "tits up" and they did a G/A...:ok:

It not just about not making mistakes,- it is what you do after you made a mistake, that is really important... :cool:

[jmig29]

The info I got was everything was under specs but safety wised, the crew decided to GA and not take chances.