A PPRuNe FUND - To assist pilots and would be pilots to achieve their goal

[InFinRetirement]

Pause a while in your seat up high, take a moment to sit and ponder.
Remember those dreams a pilot dreams?
Remember the sweat, and the tears, as you toiled to reach the big blue yonder?
Of the hours you read, of how you learned, of the many many schemes.
And now! As you fly your wings from place to place
When for all you yearned, was just to smile.....
Now as you fly from mile to mile. Look at the smile your smiling now. It's a smile that lights up your face!

A part of my own memories.....
_____________________________________________

And by way a reminder that when we learned, studied and gritted our teeth it was tough. Well, PPRuNe might be about to play a small but significant part in helping guys and gals to get their wings.

As a result of a cheque we got from The Ash, £60. Danny said that he had no where to put it so why don't I start a fund that will help wannabes, CPL's and ATPL's!! Well £60 quid won't go anywhere so I said I would start a committee to see what we can do.
First HORATIO, ex Monarch Captain, has agreed to be Teasurer, HAMRAH, Chief Pilot of GO, has agreed to be part of the team as has WEE WEASLEY WELSHMAN, an instructor based in Spain. I have one other who I haven't TOLD yet! Each will bring some determination and no-how. Me? I will bring experience from being 27 years in aviation top management, with a few thousand hours, and of chairing committee's. This gives us our quorum but it will take a few weeks to get really going.

I have given the project a working title of "The PPRuNe Flying Scholarship"

What are our aims? Not entirely sure yet, but they will be to offer financial assitance where it is needed to, for example, purchasing ATPL course notes, a lot of money. Or for a wannabe to step on the first rung of the ladder to flying.
We will see how we can encourage airlines to make a contribution to our funds. OR to give selected guys or gals the advantaged use of their facilities and sims.
We will see how we can raise funds.
How we can persuade the Lottery Fund that we are as deserving as anyone else. Most times better than anyone else.
How to select at least two wannabes a year for a flying scholarship. How he/she will have to prove that they are worthy of sending them to an airline to complete ALL their training.
ALL things are possible. We just have to get the ball rolling.

Your ideas are sought.
Ideas on fundraising.
How you would select a wannabe?
How YOU could help the committee?
How YOU could encourage and how YOU could persaude your company to participate.
And any number of other things to help us help them.

Well that's it. No point in pressing too hard now, but please do make your feelings known.

PS. Capt PPRuNe contacted me last night from Puerto Plata! He said he would like to join the committee. Welcome Danny.
I have invited Stan Sted to join us on the committee, to which has agreed. His will be a good voice. Welcome to Stan too. I have invited one other well know PPRuNer to join our number, to make seven, I will let you know who that is when and if he agrees. That will complete the committee.

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 12 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 13 June 2000).]

[DASHER]

Ok, my initial thoughts on the PPRuNe Fund, which, it has to be said, appears to be a well thought though and generally good idea:

Fundraising. One suggestion is that for every Bash every attendee pays a ''tax'' of X pounds which goes directly into the Fund. It does not have to be a particularly high amount (if it was then people would not obviously attend), but if it was £5 x 100 attendees then that is £500 from one Bash.

Selecting wannabies. I think a panel should be set up, consisting of X number of people which look carefully at each application and come to a unamious or majority verdict. A panel of 3 seems most appropriate and fair. Each applicant should fill out an application form from which the decision of whether they are worthy of help would be made. I am more than happy to be on the panel, which, I think, should be seperate of the committee, and, for larger requests, the ''head'' or ''chair'' of the Fund should be the decider once a decision from the panel has been made. That way money will not be wasted but rather given to the most needy ''cause''.

Perhaps it is a good idea to consider the limitations with regard to the help available. What things can the Fund provide and which things can it not?

Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable.

A decision must be made with regard to who is entitled to help by the Fund. Is anyone from any country, or what? This will obviously contradtic the Equal Opportunities Policy so must be written in such a way as not to be confusing.

All for now...if I have any more suggestions, comments and/or opinions, i'll be sure to reply.

Dash.




[This message has been edited by DASHER (edited 11 June 2000).]

[Horatio]

IFR should be applauded on 2 counts; firstly, for having successfully resolved the Ash issue, we now have some money in the coffers, albeit, not a lot. Secondly, for taking up the challenge on behalf of the Pprune Community to provide help and support to the professional pilot community, particularly those just starting out. Whilst we may not have a lot of money at present, although that will probably change significantly as time goes on, Pprune does have a wealth of aviation experience amongst its fraternity and many members who are prepared to share their experience and assist those that are contemplating placing their foot on the first rung of the ladder.

The idea of a ‘Pprune Flying Scholarship’ is a great idea and hopefully we will see that come to fruition. In the interim, I believe there are a great many ways in which the Pprune Community can encourage and support those starting out. One of the biggest frustrations of the ‘wannabee’ is that having successfully achieved that new, shiny licence how does he/she go about getting that vital first job? On graduating, the euphoria of gaining a licence that specifies that he/she can command an aircraft in controlled airspace soon evaporates when the realisation dawns that a licence simply gains entry to a pool of similarly qualified, but unemployed hopefuls, many of whom have been sitting there waiting a considerable time for that first opportunity. I believe that this should be our first priority; to help prepare those that have achieved the required credentials achieve the opening that they desperately need.

I know this is an issue very close to Hamrah’s heart; he and I have had numerous discussions on ways that we can help those that are qualified, yet awaiting the treasured first job. We have discussed the concept of pilot seminars, similar to those currently run in the UK, but run on a purely ‘non-profit’ basis, with built in workshops featuring interview techniques, psychometric and technical tests and maybe even simulator assessments and critiques. We believe that this is the way in which we can support the maximum number of Pprune members in the best and quickest way possible. To do this we need the support of those members that are prepared to give freely of their time and experience.

In conclusion, this is a very noble cause and one in which every member can contribute, whether it be by helping raise funds or by donating some of your time or experience to helping those follow in your footsteps. Hopefully we will have a forum devoted to this cause, but in the meantime, those that are willing to assist are encouraged to offer their support or ideas in reply.

Horatio

[rookie#1]

Being a wannabe myself I think this is a fantastic idea.

I myself have been lucky enough to potentially have secured sponsorship from zero to ATPL, med results allowing. However, I have in the process, become well aware of just what it takes to get oneself into the sky, hopefully earning a living at the same time. One aspect I was going to find quite hard to fund was the C1 Medical. For anyone who is finding it hard to fund lessons as it is, the prospect of shelling out £400 on the medical is both daunting and potentially going to keep you out of a cockpit for a while, not being able to afford lessons. Perhaps it might be posssible to offer support with medical costs?

Obviously I think great care wil have to be taken when selecting a wannabe. All of the usual stuff like no. of hours flight time, motivation, ambitions etc will have to be considered, but I also think length of registration to the site should play a small part somewhere.

Unfortunately due to my only really getting my foot in the door of the aviation industry recently, I am not able to ask for an employers' contribution/ help or any real words of wisdom!! But I wouldn't mind sitting on a selection committee if you wanted the perspective of a current wannabe.

Congratulations on a fantastic idea,

rookie#1

[Oleo]

A noble idea guys. On a slightly different vein has anyone thought of a mentoring network for wannabes: hooking up a wannabe with an airline pilot to answer Q's and just take then under their wing if only through emails. I would have found this very useful for myself. It is also very cheap!! ;)

Aviation can be a difficult area to get any support: many pilots seem to regard you as competition.

Just an idea...



[This message has been edited by Oleo (edited 12 June 2000).]

[JB007]

Fantastic idea guys,
I wish you all the very best of success.

Cheers
007

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"My Name is Pussy Galore"

"I must be dreaming"

[This message has been edited by JB007 (edited 11 June 2000).]

[Tinstaafl]

Tutoring might be welcome by some wannabes. How many of us remember trying to figure out something & would have found help from someone who is familiar with the topic a boon?

Many of us here have solid instructing, teaching, airline etc backgrounds.

[kbf1]

This may not be the most popular suggestion, but what about charging a £5 a year registration fee to all PPRUNE users? With over 15000 registrations, that equates to £75000 a year. If this fund had been started 5 years ago there would be £375000 in the pot by now, enough to fund almost 15 ATPLAs at todays prices.

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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!

[pinky]

IFR, this is a fantastic and very thoughtful idea. I don't think any of us would mind a registration fee of some kind and certainly taxing the bashes is a great idea. I think Oleo's mentoring suggestion is a really good one. I know I'd love to have someone more experienced to go to with my flying problems and questions, and even though the forum as a whole does this it's always nice to have someone specific you know and trust to go to.

For those that have PPL's we could arrange the occasional fly-in to somewhere, choose different airfields each time. Just to encourage new PPL'ers to get out there and start going places, gaining experience and building hours on their new license. I know I found it very daunting to actually start going to different airfields that I hadn't been to before. Again there could be some sort of sign up fee and a BBQ or picnic at the destination field to raise some funds.. Perhaps on these kinds of occasions those not having PPL's could make a donation to the Scholarship fund to fly in with one of the PPL'ers, giving the new PPL'ers further exposure to non-flying passengers whilst raising money for the fund.

This is the most exciting thread I've read in ages, we really have the chance to do some amazing things here, thanks to everyone who's putting in the effort and experience to get this off the ground, if you need any foot soldiers let me know. :)

Love to all, a very excited pinky!

[The Guvnor]

Given the number of wannabes versus the amount of cash likely to be available, I'd say that PPRuNe actually sponsoring anyone is fraught with potential difficulties.

What I would suggest thst that we look closely at Oleo's idea of mentoring - this is a much lower cost option and one that could benefit far more than just a 'lucky few'!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[InFinRetirement]

Well, this is encouraging. Good thoughts coming through. Just what we want. One or two worth consideration too.

At this point it is worth mentioning, that even if only ONE wannabe gained a PPRuNe scholarship, it would have achieved it aim.
But I for one intend going through with this as far as it is possible to take it. Sitting on hands admiring what others do ain't an option.

Keep the ideas coming in.

[TPuk]

The good spirit being shown here is truly inspiring.

The scholarship is a great idea, albeit a hard one to pull off. I think the work put in by the experienced pilots will be paid off in the satisfaction of knowing that something has been done that will have a huge impact on someone else's life.

But I have to hand it to Oleo, the mentoring scheme is a fantastic idea. You can buy air time and exam fees, which, of course, will be extremely helpful, but you can't put a price on sound advice.

I'm lucky enough to already have found a "mentor" through PPRuNe. The lucky person is a professional airline pilot and a very active PPRuNer - he knows who he is!! I've gained a lot of valuable knowledge and experience from him and I count myself very lucky.

However, I know I'm in the minority of young wannabes who actually talks to someone from PPRuNe who can advise them and take an interest in their flying progress.

If only one thing was ever to come of this thread, make it the mentoring scheme. It is invaluable.

TPuk

I don't think there is much I can do to help you here, being a wannabe myself, but if there is, I'll be happy to do it!

[This message has been edited by TPuk (edited 12 June 2000).]

[Rod Eddington]

Great idea guys - the mentoring idea sounds good too, perhaps both could be set up. when can i apply???!?!?!?!?

[pjdj777]

A great idea!

I think the mentoring idea is much more feasable than a sponsorship.

Perhaps we need to set up a decent contacts forum as well, highlighting good practice and methods that have got people through the system. It would be difficult to prevent such a forum falling into the usual "this place is better than that" row, however.

And practical support for job hunting, CV writing, how to get yourself noticed etc.

I believe that would have a real value.

[Gentleman Aviator]

I would be temped to use any funds to allow wannabes to get aptitude tested.

We all know of people who have spent much time and money in a near pointless attempt to get qualified.

Potentially, these results could be used to get further sponsorship or scholarship from those organisations who currently provide:

RAF, RN, BA, BMid, GAPAN etc

Just a thought! :)

[tunneler]

IFR can i have your babies???? :)

Quote from Dash
"Perhaps a Equal Opportunities Policy could be produced stating that no individual will be discriminated against on the basis of race, sex, age, sexuality, nationality, class etc. This should prodvide re-assurance to applicants and keep the Fund just, fair and reasonable"

does that mean a foul mouthed maniac glaswegian has a shoe in?????? :)

seriously though I reckon you should maybe try and wangle trial flights for folk - I know that BA etc like you to have at least sat at the pointy end.......and not everyone is as fortunate as others with regards to parental/guardian funding etc.

But it must be said top ****ing notch idea (could resist one!) and may I be the first to buy you a pint at LGW??

Top Work fella!

B
x

[Grandad Flyer]

I think mentoring is a great idea. When I was a wannabe I was extremely lucky to know a handful of people already flying for various companies, from brand new turbo prop FOs to Training Captains in the major airlines. It was invaluable and I cannot imagine trying to get through not knowing any working pilots. I would be more than happy to volunteer to be a mentor.
I think the money would be well spent on aptitude testing/ interviewing of pilots. I would recommend getting together with an organisation, GAPAN or whoever, who have previous knowledge/ experience in this field to come up with a pprune test. I think it would be best to test those who already have a PPL.
Personally I think the ATP Academy has the right idea and many lessons could be learned there. Perhaps they could be involved at some level, I know they have been involved with training some ab-initio cadets in Germany I think.
I think it would be a good idea to use their invaluable experience and advice.
I think a registration fee would be a good way to go. But you'll need to be able to accept cards, or no-one will bother sending cheques in.
Perhaps we could also have a fund available for a loan-scholarship. That is, it is awarded to someone worthy but is to be paid back when that person has a job.
I would be happy to run a mentoring scheme, matching wannabes with suitable mentors.



[This message has been edited by Grandad Flyer (edited 12 June 2000).]

[InFinRetirement]

tunneler, oh happily! But unfortunately I got snipped a few years ago. What a bloody shame!

Still make believe is still a major part of life, so let's pretend eh! What would you call a boy? I like Slasher, 'cos he doesn't give a s**t but likes to get where he is going! Very admirable that!

You just keep all the good ideas coming in. I think we are really on w winner here. I particularly like the mentor idea from Oleo, so Captains of whatever you fly. Make your mark now! Give a wannabe a reason to be.

[Buzzoff]

OK, if it comes off, stick me down as a mentor. (11000hrs, TRE/IRE on four types, currently 737-300 and current tail-dragger pilot)

[rookie#1]

I for one would love to have a mentor.

Oleo, you're a little star!!

rookie#1

[Oleo]

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

[kbf1]

GA: decent principle, however awaste of money from our perspective as RAF does advance aptitude tests for all 3 services. You can do these from ages 16 -21 without having to sit the OASC commissioning Board. Just 1 day of aptitude tests, and is done free to the individual. Besides, the principle here is that you are an officer in the armed forces first, a pilot 2nd, and this is the over-riding consideration. As I can testify a good pilot might not make a good officer and vice versa. Testing for people getting onto pilot recruitment schemes might be doing the airlines job for them. If they got wind of PPRuNers paying for apti tests, they may try and shift the emphasis onto us.

Oleo/Gramps can you run with organising mentors and build up a d/base of who will volunteer, and what types/quals please. Perhaps it would be useful to start a sepereate thread here.

IFR: it would be in our best interests to consider registering as a charity and obtaining charitable status. We can then claim back taxes/VAT and would ease the wheels of the National Lottery. This will be a hard nut to crack, but I have a contact there I can explore. IFR, can you take lead on charities please?

I suggest we report back on our findings through the forum over the next few days. If the information we gather indicates that this could fly (pun intended) then we need to get people involved and meet to discuss face-to-face.

I'm excited about this!! :)

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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!

[InFinRetirement]

We have to have a constitution, that is under way. Before we make decisions on how to proceed with anything, it is necessary to get on with walking, running at this stage would serve no useful purpose.

Registering as a charity is a non-starter. It is minefield of paperwork and regulations. PPRuNe does not need to be anything other than in its present form with members who are willing to enhance its brilliance.

[Checkboard]

Can I have some money to come to the next bash? :)

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Oleo - you should see my mailbox!!!

Lots of issues to consider here but at least we´ve got SOMETHING moving.

WWW

[Oleo]

http://www.women.com/messages/images/icons/blush.gif
OOOpppps! Yes, I can organise a database, but suspect we will be overwhelmed with wannabes and light on mentors. Probably have to limit it to serious wannabes... maybe those already with a PPL ...and, uummm, those already over 18!!

[TPuk]

Oleo, Those over 18? Don't you think that those 15 and above is more reasonable? I speak from expierence when I say that it is impossible for the vast majority of school age people to get advice on a flying career. I also feel that when people get to age 18 they will often have made their mind up where they intend to get in life, and most will have some kind of plan of action to back that up.

I think that excluding younger members of PPRuNe is a big mistake. Please don't!

TPuk

[foxmoth]

Oleo
remember one mentor can if willing probably take on more than 1 wannabe, and I dont think you will be that light on mentors - you can put me down for one (11,000hrs +, A320/330 captain exB757/767 came up via the instructor route, still instructing & flying taildraggers).
Please do though try to ensure that those wanting the mentoring ARE serious, as I can't think of anything more offputting for a mentor than getting someone who is not keen. :)

[Grandad Flyer]

I would certainly be happy to be involved with the matching up of mentors and wannabes. I think we will need a standard info form. From wannabes we'll need things like age, plans, what type of flying they are hoping to get into (air taxi, airline, flight instructing) and what they are looking for in a mentor (occasional advice via e-mail, chats on the phone, career advice). Then on the mentor side we could ask things like current job, experience, particular interests, time available, location. I am sure some mentors would be happy just to answer questions via e-mail, and others would be happy to get more involved, perhaps meeting the person at a local airfield, or helping someone who has a licence but not a job, with things like preparing for interviews, CVs, etc.
I am not sure where Oleo is based, perhaps we could split this geographically?
Moderators - let me know if we should go ahead.

[Rusty Cessna]

Oleo, what can i say!!!

Speaking as a 16 year old wannabe who is in training for a P.P.L, I know first hand that it can prove very hard indeed to find the advice we seek. I have been lucky enough to have priceless advice from many PPRuNers, Mooney, Dasher, Hamrah,WWW, Stan Stead to name but a few. I personaly know that I will not be likely able to fund my full training and have been very luck so far for my P.P.L. So the sponsorship idea is a very good one indeed, if hard to pull off.

Please dont exclude youngsters like me, and for instance DarrenMoore, because we are very frequently the ones who are not eligable for the benefits of a benefactor.

As for Mentoring, well, the above people have helped me enormously but I would love to have a "Mentor" that was able to go deep with advice and help. Tax! I have a lock box in my room that I put all spare cash into, it is not much but I would gladly put it into this valuable kitty, and even if I do not attend the future bashes I would love to pay the tax, (note blind enthusiasm). The fly in's are a great idea. I too, Tpuk, am anxious about when I start "Landing Away" so I could really benefit from this, and would be more than glad to offer the spare seats of my rented aircraft for a fellow un-licenced wannabee, I would gladly pay tax on this too.

I agree we should seek charity status and that we should try our arm at everything. If the veiw and perspective of a young trainee wannabee is needed, count me in more than gladly. This is the best idea in ages and after numerous put downs and negetive feedback from various "know it alls", The people of PPRuNe have once again made me feel on top of the world, and once again extremely motivated.

You all deserve night hoods for the ideas put forward, even if it starts of slowly, the ball is indeed rolling and as always, gathering that valuable thrust! I know that with the support of the group, we will all make it in our chosen path, once again thanks and good luck to all, awwww, what a great bunch of people you all are!!


Rusty

[This message has been edited by Rusty Cessna (edited 13 June 2000).]

[InFinRetirement]

Whoa there guys! The idea of this thread was started by me because I think it right that pilots and would be pilots get a chance, if it all possible, to benefit from funds that we will acquire, but as yet do not have.

Everyone was invited to give their ideas to it, and if the committee think it is a worthy idea, they will try to push it through. Certainly, Oleo's, idea of a mentor is very sound. But we still have to look at it from a professional point of view.

Mentors, if that is the way we think is best, will be allocated by the committee to an individual, who is in their opinion, a right and proper person to be reccommended.

Not EVERYONE, wannabes and all will be selected, and we will be scrupulously fair in our selections, especially the flying scholarship if we are able to arrange one or more. So your ability is important. There are NO shortcuts. So please do not try to go off on your own. All that will do is make you unworthy and unpopular, and could probably damage your own chances. And because YOU have not considered the many other people who have as much right as anyone to get a chance. Chance is what it is not a right.

We will in due course get the committee under way. When we do, it will be on a step by step basis. Till then please curb your natural enthusiasm and leave it to us.

Finally do not use the thread to chat among yourselves, the place for that is on its own thread in Aircrew or Wannabes. Ideas and views only on here please.

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 14 June 2000).]

[Buzzoff]

I had a mentor, a BEA/BA Captain (girlfriend's father) who bluntly showed me that in life there are those that dream and those that go and do it - "stop talking about it lad, get off your @rse and do something about it!" I favour the mentoring scheme - it could be an addition to any PPRuNe fund. I wish I could help to co-ordinate a mentoring scheme, but there ain't enough hours in the day for me to do justice to the admin. connected with a scheme like this; working for a low-cost scheduled operator keeps one a tad busy in the sharp end.

As soon as someone sets up the database or whatever, I will gladly participate, as I said yesterday. My own 15 year old daughter is getting the benefit of a bit of fatherly mentoring towards this business, and I don't see why I can't spread that a bit further.

If a mentoring programme is decided upon, well, so far there's Grandad Flyer, foxmoth and me - any more takers for the role of mentor?

(PS InFinR, I'm not going off on me own! - but I do think a scheme like this will need some momentum to sustain it)

[This message has been edited by Buzzoff (edited 14 June 2000).]

[InFinRetirement]

Hi Buzzoff. I agree with with what you say and I would be grateful if you would mail me.

But publicly, it IS a database of all things we require and co-ordination of it is vital to the its success. Impossible if people go off doing their own thing. This idea is few days old and it takes a bit of time to organise.

PS. FOXMOTH, would you be kind enough to mail me too please.
As far as you going off on your own is concerned. Never even thought about it. But grateful that you are the first to offer yourself as a mentor. I hope others follow your example.

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 14 June 2000).]

[foxmoth]

WHere did I say about going off on my own or doing my own thing here.
you must be reading something into my post that was not intended ! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[CHICKENTRAINER]

I think the mentoring idea is excellent. Put me down.

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ChickenTrainer

[VelvetStrokes]

IFR - hope you're feeling better.

Anything I can do, feel free to call on me.

Can we adopt my cat as a mascot, cos it's where the idea for VelvetStrokes came from.



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Stroke me and I purr rrrrrr I'm such a sensual babe

but remember I have claws as well

[Pelican]

If this scolarship is about to kick off, how so we prevent an increase in the masssive sucking up excersise that already goes on during the PPRuNe bashes ?

Also, the implication seems to be that this sceme is only for UK based pilots. What about the wannabees in other places like the US or Australia ?

Despite these two issues a very laudable effort.

[InFinRetirement]

Pelican! A sucking up exercise? Surely you don't mean that! However, I bow to your observation about the US and the Antipodes. There is no way that they will be forgotten! No sir, just let us get the thing under way and the world over will be included.

And Pelican, if I may use your thread. I am very happy to tell you, and everyone that Captain Airclues, of BA, has agreed to join the team of committee members to complete my team of seven. A very formidable team, and I have to say that in all my years in airline management, flying and committee work, I have never had such a dynamic team of people to work with.

We will get to work soon and keep you informed of progress.
_____________________________________________

From little acorns great oaks are formed

[kbf1]

Can Velvet Strokes be my mentor? :)

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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!

[Buzzoff]

InFinR, Email duly despatched, but I had a bit of trouble with my password, so could you please post here if you haven't received it.

[DarrenMoore]

Ok, I thought I'd put my tuppence worth in...
Great idea by the way!
I agree with TPuk when he says that under-18s should not be excluded, I'm 16 and have wanted to be a pilot for as long as I can remember.
Maybe a good age would be 16 or 17 when a person is old enough to solo or apply for a licence.
Grandad Flyer, great idea about the forms for the collection of wannabe data. I think that would work successfully.

I'd also be interested in a mentor, that sounds a great idea.

I may not know very much about aviation yet but if this scheme carries on into the future you can certainly count me in as a mentor/instructor.

Another idea here, how about not funding a full flying course but offering a part-sponsorship? - maybe 50 or 75%?

Anyway, I look forward to seeing this progress.

Regards,

Darren

[This message has been edited by DarrenMoore (edited 15 June 2000).]

[AMS]

A Very good Idea!!

I have just posted on the Wanabees area, with regards to this fund, But, now I know.

I would love to take part in this on a very professional basis, if the committee wants me to.

Take Care

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AM'S

[Hamrah]

For some time now, Horatio and I have been exploring the possibilities of what can be done to give something back to the industry that has given us so much. It followed on from an idea proposed by Raw Data some months ago. It is now coming together under the stewardship of IFR.

Before we all get carried away with Scholarships and Sponsorship, we need to think about what we CAN do initially. My thoughts were about holding workshops for wannabees where they could meet other pilots, try the various tests that a lot of airlines use, learn about CV's and interviews, and not have to pay rip-off prices to line others pockets in the process.

Mentoring, and local workshops around the country seems like the best place to start. We are a VERY long way from sponsorship. This is about harnessing the wealth of experience in PPRuNe and sharing it. So please don't get your expectations too high, or start sending begging letters.

Bear in mind that all of the volunteers have day jobs ( except maybe IFR :) ) and, while happy to give some time to this project, have to make a living themselves.

Cheers

H

[redsnail]

Day job, Hamrah!
Is that what you call it! :)

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Reddo
A Feral Animal.

[VelvetStrokes]

kbf1, mentoring pilots - that's a very happy idea and well worth investigating.

Perhaps I could be funded to take trips round the world and spread PPRuNe ideals and pilot philosophy. Now there's a thought.............


How about I start in July - since I'm off to see Tip O'Dean's auntie in a couple of weeks. The kiwi / oz pilots could do with some velvet toned instruction

[ozone ranger]

IFR, I really like your idea.

At the current time I am helping a young pilot from Panama get his ALPL for the US. I am now back into corporate aviation and he is cleaning my airplanes to earn extra money for flying. He also goes on test flights and I let him fly a little bit. The airplanes he gets to clean and fly are a Sabre 65 and a Falcon 900EX.

All I can say is that when I was his age I would have given anything to to just around that type aeromachine.

So I am with KbF1, I will be happy to give 5 pounds (Is that about $200.00 USD?) to help new pilots.

[Bigmouth]

Mentoring is a great idea, wish I had had one. As for the fund, don´t like the idea of paying for a bunch of euro-licenses, as most of the cash will end up in the coffers of the big, bad local IRS. How about bashing the head of the JAA instead, and try to get them to reverse the new foreign license conversion rules. Anybody who´s put in a couple of years of labor can afford an ATP in Gods own country. Let´s help guys converting, instead of giving handouts to a select few.

[InFinRetirement]

Ozone Ranger.

Good views there. A young lad would be very excited indeed to have someone like you to encourage him. And he gets a little hands on too. Lucky lad indeed.

kbf1's idea is indeed a good one. And five pounds is not much. However, I do wonder if the the registered members would accept it! I just don't know. There is indeed 15k+ members, but only a small number are avid readers and contributors to PPRuNe so it may not be as good as it sounds. Had it been done at the time of registering!?.....who knows. But worth noting that over a thousand new members have joined in recent months. Food for thought I think!

Your thoughts and views are noted and thank you. 5GBP is just about $8 by the way.

[WX Man]

Whilst on the surface of it, Bigmouth's idea is a good one, it might in the long term (IMO) be counter productive as training moves abroad. Now although I am an advocate of training abroad, I appreciate the value of training in this country (that's why I'm planning to do all the rest of my training in the UK rather than in the US).

Mentoring is a superb idea. I know that I have benefitted a great deal from advice given to me by people I know in the industry (many of whom I met through PPRuNe). One in particular, you know who you are!

What an invaluable source of information the mentor is- there's only so much you can read in books. PPRuNe itself also serves as an excellent tool for wannabe pilots like myself... in fact, I'm amazed when I meet a fellow wannabe who denies the existance of the site.

The scholarship, well how can anyone say that that's a bad idea. My vote would be for the scholarship to not be a general amount of money to be spent on flying training, but should be a set aspect of the training for the road to an ATPL: say, for people who are choosing the modular route, a payment made directly to the course provider of their (or the sponsors') choice for something like the CPL skills course, or the ATPL groundschool course. For people choosing the fully approved route, a payment of the same magnitude made to the school of their/ their sponsors' choice.

For the mentoring scheme, an on line application form might be a good idea. This way all required details would be put straight into a database (very much like the EasyJet on line application form).

One thing that I do think would help a great deal is the reinstatement of NVQ relief on flight training. It's all very well for me to sit here on my R's typing this, doing it is a different matter. A while ago, I was in the process of draughting a letter (which I was going to post on PPRuNe for people to copy, alter and send to their MP). This was calling for the removal of VAT on flight training in the wake of removal of NVQ tax relief. Actually turned out that I didn't know very much about tax law and how flying schools and clubs operate, so I couldn't put my point across well enough.

In light of this, I have been exploring the subject a little further (emphasis on the word 'little'), and hope to have something at least in my head soon. With the power of the sort of people who are on the committee, this move would have extra momentum... if a whole load of people who have nothing professionally to do with aviation (yet) do it, MPs and the press are less likely to listen. A letter with 'So-and-so, Very Senior Bloke, We-Pay-You-Lots-Of-Tax Airways' is more likely to be get a reaction.

Apologies for the long message, but I think that thing about tax needs to be addressed. I would be willing to continue research on the law concerning this.

[This message has been edited by WX Man (edited 18 June 2000).]

[Buzzoff]

WX Man, I completely agree with you regarding NVQ.

As a matter of interest I was a member of the three-man Industry Committee set up to review and recommend whether the NVQ scheme was to continue or be junked. We took depositions from all sides of the Industry, including the Flying schools, both in writing and in open session. We considered - and recommended that it be retained (albeit with a slightly different content for Level 4).

The Government almost immediately threw it out!

[InFinRetirement]

As you will have noticed Stan has been beavering away with a few ideas to raise funds. They are getting a good response too.

This project is important to us and must not be allowed to fall off the edge the way the last one did - apparently. With the help of the team, I will do my best to ensure that it doesn't.

Keep supporting us with your ideas. I have a good list of brilliant mentors now, (we can do with more please) and we will get that going very soon I hope.

[FE Hoppy]

I like this thread a lot.
I'm sure that a lot of ppruners would be willing to make volantary contributions to any fund set up. I know I would, and I'm out of work right now.

PS anyone need an L1011 FE????

[skua]

Mentoring has to be a great way for disseminating the enormous amount of expertise of this forum's members in a way that will strengthen the industry by providing more enlightened, more motivated, and more able recruits.

But I think that the issue of what to spend funds on requires more thought. Training scholarships are on offer from many other sources - Air League, GAPAN, RAF, etc.

PPrune should be thinking about filling the gaps in the industry. A benevolent fund for families who have lost an aircrew breadwinner has to be an important use. I presume that those employed by the big carriers have good death-in-service benefits. But there have been some tragic deaths in the last year of pilots who are probably less well-covered. I am thinking of those that fly bizjets, air taxis, air ambulances, and GA instructors. PPrune could step in.

[Jetgate]

IFR & Co,

What an excellent idea! I thought it was only fair to use my own experiences as a UK wannabe training abroad due to lack of finances to verify and even add some other ideas.

May I suggest that if the scholarship idea does go through then the funds be directed toward impoverished students. I say this as the whole idea of this thread is about helping the young and inexperienced pilots financially isn't it? I know this idea could cause a messy debate so I shall leave it and hopefully would have planted the seed in the minds of the commitee. Perhaps a better idea would be to offer the funds in the form of a loan as previously suggested, payable on first employment as this way a lot more people can benefit from a revolving pool of money. This would be difficult to administer and manage but it's only an idea! The mentor scheme and any post licenece workshops are the ones which I think are priceless. This type of thing is very difficult to nearly impossible to buy and the so called co's that do offer it are only in it to bankrupt a near destitute new licence holder! As a few fortunate wannabes know it is an unbelievable boost to talk to someone in the game when you feel your own training and skills are going pear shaped. They say talk is cheap so here's hoping............

A Londoner in Vancouver.

P.S.

Where do I send the Fiver?




------------------
There are Old Pilots and Bold Pilots, but no Old Bold Pilots.

[jigsawblue]

Great ideas on this topic.
The mentoring idea is excellent, although
I'm torn between needing a mentor or a
cheerleader type person to help me
over the last few hurdles and the fact
that I have considerable experience
which others could use. In other words
I need a mentor but I could be one.
There are plenty ike me so perhaps
this could make up for the shortage
of ATPLs who are actually in the
airlines. Lower level mentors if you
like.
Also in regards to sponsorship I
suggested this in a slightly different form
a while ago.
Someone suggested aiming it at the more
impoverished wannabee, this is good.
But I would go further don't set up a
competition to choose a candidate who
quite frankly is so damm good that he/she
would probably get into the RAF/BA etc
This defeats the purpose. It should be aimed
at the failures ie most of us who were shown
the door by these illustrious organisations.
In other words there needs to be a form
of discrimation against those who don't
need much financial help. If you tried to
borrow money but were refused you are
ideal. The people who need the help
are those who are not quite the high
flyers, if I can use that term. The worst
nightmare for this type of award would
be for it to got to someone who found
him/herself with a choice, PPRuNe or
BA, Hmmmm what will I choose.
Another suggestion perhaps it
could fund twin time or IR time or pay
for an Instructors course or sim time or
whatever for a larger number of pilots
More admin for the organisers certainly
but a greater spread of the goodies.
Perhaps like a pyramid scheme only
legit the masses could fund quite a few
Wouldn't it be better to help 10 or 20 a year
than to simply fund one lucky stiff?
It' worth a thought.

[Busbar]

I think that all the ideas here are excellent, one of the best ideas for along time. I like Hamrah's idea of wannabe pilot workshops to discuss and help out those seeking jobs, or advice on gaining a licence etc... This would not cost a great deal but would be most helpful to us all!
Personally, I feel that we need to look at realistic ways of raising cash and the idea about a yearly registration fee is excellent, I don't think many would moan at this as long as it went to a good cause - which it will! I think sponsorships/scholarships should come a little later when the commitee has been established and there is a little more idea of where things are taking us! One step at a time is needed!
Also, I would be more than happy to sit on a selection commitee for potential wannabe to be sponsored!
This is a great idea and I am really excited, lets really make a go of this and do a good job!

[YakYak]

Great idea.

Should you need a test case for how well wannabees would use said funds - I'm more than willing to volunteer.

Seriously though, this would be a real lifesaver for those of us who can't get 'Daddy' to but us a Beemer, a skiing holiday, or a 50 grand bank loan (See 'Georgie' thread)

Yakkers

[David Johnson]

I remember this post from a considerable time ago and was wandering whether anything had become of the "mentoring" system. I am now at a stage where I think I could benefit from the help of someone that knows more than I do about the details of sponsorships and indeed being a pilot in general. If anyone would be interested in maybe proffering some advice etc then I would be extremely grateful.

Basically - 18 years old and doing a AERO ENG degree. RAF Flying Scholarship and Air League Engineering Scholarship. PPRuNer for 3 years!

It's a big world out there and if anyone can help then I would be extremely grateful.

------------------
[email protected]
ICQ41344326

[This message has been edited by David Johnson (edited 10 December 2000).]

[InFinRetirement]

Now isn't that a co-incidence? :rolleyes:

There I was, being given the elbow on another forum, for doing setting this up, and up pops the old thread. ;)

So the details on SEASONS and GREETINGS on R&N can be moved to here so that we can get on with the PPRuNe Fund without 'offending' anyone. Sarcastic? Yep!

I'll do that a bit later but I will keep this thread for the MAIN fund news.

[InFinRetirement]

I won't put all the posts from R&N over here but this is my response to one or two who wanted to start putting cash into the fund. Dr Syn was the one who put the spur, with spikes, in the place it hurts most. So I had to do something!

Still I am grateful that the ole' thread was bought to the fore again. Thanks David, and 'anyone' involved!


Your comments are warming my cockles!

Danny has 'kindly' lumbe.....asked me if I would take on the job of Treasurer of the PPRuNe Fund. I have, of course, accepted because I have a love affair with PPRuNe - why can't it be a woman? In fact I formed a committee for the Fund six months ago for the purpose of encouraging wannabes. So that we could pay towards some of their costs for perhaps a PPL, IR, etc., etc., and, if at all possible, providing we can perhaps persaude the airlines to participate financially, we might be able to award a flying scholarship now and again to our wannabes.

It was obvious at the start it would take a Gatbash type event to get it started. Well! It looks like it has, with around £700-£800 pounds - maybe more.

'Oldboy'(who is not at all, and is a very nice guy) paid £400 for the auctioned signed picture of the Battle of Britain Pilots, and promptly gave it back to be auctioned another time. See what I mean?

Go 'sold' two jump seat rides at over £100 plus each, and our raffle took around £270. We had to pay for those people who didn't turn up so under the bash rules I have already asked them to send me cheques for £21.50, the same amount that everybody paid and that should raise the total further. Three cheques are apparently already on their way.

I am opening the 'The PPRuNe Fund' bank account tomorrow. I note, with great pleasure that some of you are wishing to contribute and I ACCEPT!!!!!!!!

Please send what you can and make cheques payable for the time being, to The PPRuNe Fund at 5 Station Approach, Belmont, Surrey SM2 6BW. I hope that I can also set it up so that you can send straight into the account. I think that is a must. But the above is OK but in the meantime please do send me a cheque to add to those I already have. We are over the £1000 mark now and we just want to keep going.

So kind people we want your dosh for our wannabes. We already have a mentoring scheme in place which is and will be run by BUZZOFF, a Training Captain with guess who. But keen as mustard and with a small "crew" of mentors, who will of course develop a selection process to send our first wannabe to his ATPL.

The Fund will give it a kick start so please send us money now, and if and when you can. Just think! If all 22,000 PPRuNers sent £5 each we would have £110,000 in the bank. Enough for one scholarship in 2001 and costs.

But that can't happen 'cos a lot have gone on their way. BUT......the new ones! Well we might just have to have a membership fee.........but more of that later. But....then again you might prove me wrong!

I can be a bit pushy so might as well send some money as soon as you can. I'm gonna put £50 in so if someone feels the same we could be getting a big account soon. Dr Syn matched me right away - so thanks Doc.

The aim is that PPRuNe will be the MAIN, yes the MAIN, source of new pilots for the airlines in the next few short years. I find that bloody exciting, and YOU who fly, those like ME who have, know what it takes. Loans, re-mortages and every kind of debt to get there. But we can put something back.

GO under Hamrah, uses the phrase "let us put something back" all the time for example. And does. He encourages and talks up to wannabes, so do two of his guys and my fellow Moderators, PPRuNe Towers and CrashDive and, of course, Danny. So, I am going to adopt that phrase and from now on the slogan of The PPRuNe Fund will be

"LET US PUT SOMETHING BACK"

I look forward to receiving, and feeling, a paper clip through an envelope

BTW, with the great help of Stan I will still be organising the May Bash! Oh yes!



[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 10 December 2000).]

[Grandad Flyer]

Just to add to the above. Myself and Buzzoff had a couple of meetings back in the summer and sorted out the initial stages of the Mentoring programme. However, we have been waiting for the powers that be, those who have the technical knowledge that myself and Buzzoff lack, to get what we have on a piece of paper onto this thing they call the web.
We are on the case, and continue to harrass the relevant people! As soon as they convert it all to computer pages then all systems are go!
We are ready and standing by.....

[InFinRetirement]

OK! The situation is this. I have at last arranged with the Royal Bank of Scotland that they will be The PPRuNe Fund bankers, at least to start with. We should have an account opened within a few short days.

Then we can get going and get the promised cash in. The problem was that no-one at three banks could decide wether we are a business or an organisation. Seems we don't fit either, but they will do whatever is necessary.

PPRuNe Towers is No.2 Signature and The Boss will be able to look in at the account via his PC to see what is happening.

No point in saying anymore at this stage, but we will be getting going real soon.

Thanks Grandad Flyer, we will do whatever is necessary to get the mentoring moving.

[AeroBoero]

IFR ;

1 - I just suggested that the thread should be separated from the seasons and greetings , nothing more. But I think that this thread wouldn't be brought back without that one..so I bite my tongue on this.

2 - I said there and I'll say here again : I will be more than happy to help/contribute. Just need to get the means of sending quantities overseas right and the details of recipients.
The idea is more than valid , and I think it will be here to stay. All of you who are really doing the job are blessed people. We most are all good on speak, but few get to start and do something.You are part of that few IFR...and all the others directly involved in this iniciative.
I sincerely wish all the best to the ones who are giving their time and dedication on this.

[WX Man]

Excellent that this one has resurfaced. Is the PPRuNe fund a registered charity? Because there's that deed of covenent thing that could open up the floodgates to receiving back some money paid in tax on the donations.

[InFinRetirement]

WX, we will take a good look at being a registered charity but it will take time. You just cannot do it just like that. However, there is someone very experienced in these matters who is dealing with while we await getting the bank details fixed up. Oh the wheels of beaurocratic crap!

Anyhow, some cheques have arrived and we have a total of over £1400 with the promise of much more to come. Much more.

BTW, not just for WX. Are YOU among the promised senders of cash? Look forward to it ta very much.

[Unusual Attitude]

Well, I don't have a lot of spare cash right now as I'm in the middle of my ATPL training.

However, having just experienced the difficulties of raising the funds myself I'd be more than happy to give up a couple of pints a month to help out other fellow wannabe's. (I don't have time to drink them anyway with all this ATPL study http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif )

If you let me know the account details I'll happily set up a standing order for £5 quid a month.
It's not a lot I know but if we all chip in something similar it'll soon add up !!

Regards

UA

[v1rotate]

IFR,

I’ll be able to assist with Web Design and Desktop Publishing if you need any help in that area.


------------------
"Jerry, just remember, it's NOT a LIE if YOU believe it." - George Costanza

[WX Man]

Being a final year student at the moment, I don't think I'm in a position to lend my support financially (my bank manager echoes this sentiment). However I would be more than happy to devote my time to organising some fund-raising causes.

I used to organise university balls etc., and I have organised concerts (albeit not very big ones). If my experience in the field of promotions is of any use to the PPRuNe fund, then I can certainly donate my time.

[FalconJock]

?**????@~@~~@~?~??

I have a question?? How is someone to be selected for any possible grant? Will the selection process be similar to BA where you have to be a business person to qualify or will it be someone who has a book with the numbers of every UK plane (Sorry Aeroplane) crossed out? Also what is the point of training someone to get a Frozen ATPL only for them to join the pool of qualified but inexperienced unemployable pilots? I know a number of First Officers and Captains and the majority of them say they have to work long and excessive hours because of understaffing. If the airlines are short of pilots why not have a sheme that helps pilots into jobs, maybe by underwriting the airlines risk in training. Why anyone, instead of everyone, should be handed a full career on a plate I believe is totally wrong and unfair on that vast majority of pilots who have had to find tens of thousands of pounds for their own training.

More people could be helped by doing this than helping one or two individuals per year.

[InFinRetirement]

I fear you have not read what has been said. But first let me take you very briefly through selection. Wannabes will be first selected for mentoring, and there are some first class Captains more than willing to undertake and oversee that. But there are a lot of details to go through.

Then there is the question of final selection, that will be done on merit and ability alone. Again we have an extreme of talent to do that.

Now to what we might do. The process will be to assist those wannabes worthy in the eyes of their peers to receive a helping hand in a cash grant. This could be for a part payment of a PPL. It could be for assistance with an IR, it could be to purchase expensive material etc., that in a nutshell is the crux of the matter.

In regard to the whole lot for one or two very good wannabes - in other words a Flying Scolarship - that is entirely dependent on the amount of cash we can generate for the fund. But it won't happen if the fund would be seriously depleted by it.

That idea is the ultimate, requiring a lot of cash but to say that it is unfair is, well, unfair. If PPRuNe aims to be the main source of young pilots for the airlines in the future, then we may find that the airlines will make a major contribution for THAT purpose alone, in which case we have the advantage of some of the best Flight Deck talent in the business. That is where PPRuNe scores hands down.

So just hold the reins for a while. We will sit down and decide, then anything might come out of it, but it will be for the wannabes - and the occassional assistance for the hard-up strivers.

Don't forget, we have all be there. Borrowing here, and borrowing there. It all has to be paid back and sometimes it takes years. We WILL make that burden easier for the best among us. Layabouts and no-hopers will be excluded - quite naturally.

[Grandad Flyer]

Smurfjet and V1rotate, thank you for your kind offers. We were hoping to get a link through pprune, that is, set up the registering through the main pprune page, but no one from pprune has yet told us if this can be done.
Myself and buzzoff have had the initial registration of interest form ready since the summer, but we still need to find out whether this can be put onto this site with the link, and have people entering their details and so on. Also, I don't know how myself and buzzoff would then access the information.
Hell, I'm just a pilot, not a computer whizz!!
However, if nothing happens I think we will set the whole thing up as a separate website and hope to get a link from pprune.
Perhaps both of you could e-mail me and let me know if any of this is feasible.
Also, if any pprune moderators are reading, could they please please please get in touch and also let us know whether we can do this through pprune or whether you wish us to set this up on a separate website.
Then we can finally get on with it.
Thanks everyone.

[InFinRetirement]

The fund is steadily growing! And is close on £2000 now. It is, therefore, time to recognise some of those who contributed it.

The latest is SENSIBLE who has generously donated £500, a most generous gesture indeed.

Others are:
JP Justice
Dr Syn
A Name (no handle)
StopStart
Biggles FU
A Name
Buttons
IFR
Oldboy
Pancake
Scroggs
Orac
Darren
A.N Other x 5
GirlFlyday
exeng
The Nr Fairy

Thank you so much guys and gals. The Fund is on its way, and that I am really chuffed about. And no matter how large or small the donation, each £1 counts and will be gratefully received, and henceforth acknowledged on this thread.

PPRuNe will make a contribution to many a wannabes career in the near future so PLEASE do keep those pennies rolling in.

From now on, each time the Fund reaches another £1000 pounds I will put in £25.

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 13 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 13 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 04 February 2001).]

[LowNSlow]

IFR how about boosting the fund by charging a few quid over the cost for the Pprune badges? A fiver (or tenner) fits nicely into a SAE.....

[InFinRetirement]

Just thought I'd let you know that a few more donations have come through the post. Some have paid over the top for PPRuNe badges which is what LowNslow was suggesting.

However, as I mentioned in 'Bashes' there are new badges being made, and although what we have are a 'limited' edition it is your decision to take them but I only have 8 left. 11 are going out today.

Keep the donations coming please. I am looking forward to coughing up another £25 for the next £1000 and all after.

[InFinRetirement]

More cash has been coming in. We are over £2000 now.

Soooo, when you have finished with Xmas, how about you consider adding to the fund. Some really generous donations have already been made. Could you add to them?

Have a good Xmas.

[DarrenMoore]

Just an idea but how about to raise more money for the PPRuNe fund, we organise auctions for model aircraft, books, jumpseat rides, etc?
I'd be happy to help,

Rgds,
D.M.


------------------
Success=Work=Success!

[scroggs]

I can't believe I've missed this thread over the last 6 months and, IFR, I should take you to task for not beating everyone individually over the head with it at Gatbash. OK, we were probably too far gone to notice, and you probably did. Sorry!
I'd like to add my name to the list of potential mentors - 9000+ hours, 22 years mil (5000 hrs C130 commander), RAF Bulldog QFI, now B747 SFO with Virgin. Got almost every T-shirt going along the way!
I'd also like to echo the posts above offering a monthly contribution on a deed of covenant if the fund can get charitable status. Or even if it can't! And finally, perhaps IFR could once again publish the address for contributions?

[InFinRetirement]

E-Mail on its way Scroggs - just as fast as my fingers can type!

[scroggs]

IFR - got that, and count me in, mate. Now, about that address for contributions......?

[Out Of Trim]

It seems to me that most "Airlines" could probably find the odd "Thousand Pounds" here and there to add to the PPRuNe Fund; seeing as they would ultimately benefit as well as the individual! Perhaps some PPRuNers are in corporate positions to open negotiations - especially if the fund attained "Charitable Status" ie. possible tax incentives...?

------------------
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Happiness.. is being IN Trim!</font>

[Rusty Cessna]

Id be delighted to help, I will send what I can but I am skint at the mo, hehe, but DM's Idea's are great! You want some help with them mate?

Rusty

[InFinRetirement]

When Danny gets back from his hard weeks slog in Barbados!!!!! Tuesday I think, and after he has had his mandatory kip, he will sign the last docs for the bank and I can open the account.

Till then my hearties you can send cheques made out to The PPRuNe Fund at the address on my post in PAGE 3 of this thread.
As many cheques as you want - I have a quite a few to enter into our new paying in book - when it arrives - and after that we can use the new technology to transfer funds electronically. I stand by what I have said recently, for every £1000 we achieve I will add £25 each time.

Out of Trim. Yes! An idea we have had for some time, which fits nicely with another view that PPRuNe will be a place for airlines to find their new young pilots. Especially as there will be a serious shortage of them within two years. So, the airlines will be approached to provide some funds

Charity Status. Another thing we are working on. Dr Syn is doing that. He has been involved in the mysterious and wonderful world of charities for some years and is the ideal chap for the job.

Mentoring. That is coming along now and we should be on our way soon. Another very experienced PPRuNer has offered himself just recently, and since I know of his quality and background we will not be short of the right people to assist the leader, a Training Captain with BUZZ.

It's happening guys and gals. After 40 years in aviation I am as excited about this as anyone, and will work like hell with the help of some very able and capable people.

NEVER, never forget, that here on PPRuNe we have the best flight deck, ATC, Cabin Services and Engineering people - including the three Armed Services - anywhere in the world. Many we can use, if they live in the UK for example, some we gain advice from if they live outside. You would be seriously surprised at the amount of little ideas that pop-up on my mail. I cleaned out over 600 e-mail messages yesterday - EVERY one of them no older than 4 months. The advice goes in pigeon holes along with other ideas, which I look at regularly. I Love it!

Don't forget our slogan.

"LET'S PUT SOMETHING BACK"

[This message has been edited by InFinRetirement (edited 31 December 2000).]

[Royan]

Is this going to be international, for all pilots from different countries at different flying Academies?

[InFinRetirement]

A very fair and pertinent question. I will put your post on our Fund file and discuss it at the appropriate time.

Happy new Year to you.

[Slasher]

InFin Ive read this thread over and over again and I cant seem to find the answer to a question I have:
Dont read this the wrong way, but is this Fund going to simpley be a handout for kids who eventualy want airline jet jobs, or is it meant instead to be a very minimal low-interest loan for them?
Also will the type of flying the kid wants to get into be taken into account?

Thanks.

[InFinRetirement]

Hi Slasher. I am sorry if it hasn't come across too well but the basic plan will be to help wannabes on the first step of the ladder, to a PPL, ATPL, IR or whatever the circumstances happen to be.

The first part is selection for mentoring. That will be pretty hard on wannabes for obvious reasons. The main one being that we don't want to waste the money on anyone without the necessary ability to succeed.

There is NO pay back. If the guys are worthy then it will be given to assist them get to on their way to a licence.

For example we could be asked to pay for fees, for study material, for almost anything to get them their licence. We could even pay for a whole course if the guy was particularly good.

Does that help? Hope so, it's a bit late and the Isle of Jura single malt is taking effect.

Happy New Year to you mate. Have a great 2001.

[InFinRetirement]

Can't have this thread dropping out of 'site' :)

[Royan]

InFinRetirement; happy New Year to you Sir, I do appreciate all the efforts you do, and I hope it will all work out as it is for a noble cause, I was following up your responses and the last one to Slasher, and I think to be able to make it a long lasting thing that the people we help should be able to pay the amount paid to them at any long term convenience when they get employed, so the account will always have some money and more people will benefit, please consider having a clear policy regarding this matter. This whole project should carry the name of the inventor . Thank you

[strimmer]

InFinRetirement:
This is an ecellent idea and hope it gets of the ground safely.My cheque is in the post (the bank manager can get stuffed http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif )
I have two points to make - not so long ago I went to the careers adviser at school and suggested I wanted to be a pilot, they laughed and suggested a career in the NHS, therefore I think careers advise to those still at school is important.
Now I have a shiny new Frozen ATPL/IR , although its starting to look more tarnished the more CV's I send out. so advise after training for those of us who have licenses, but no job, would be welcomed such as workshops looking at CV's, interview techniques and all the usual physco babble and tests.
Happy New Year to Everyone and good luck with the fund.

Strimmer

[InFinRetirement]

A very good point Strimmer, I will put that one in the pot with the rest of good ideas. But do rest assured it will be discussed.

[martinf]

InFinRetirement

Have read the whole post with considerable interest as an aspiring wannabee and as nice as any potential funding aid is, I'm not sure if that would help the industry as a whole. Granted it might make say two more potential pilots a year to go onto jobs but, and this might sound crazy coming from someone in need of sponsorship, would the funding not be better utilised by helping more people. In other words, whilst sponsoring helps a few, things like workshops, mentoring and advice would help many.
Wouldn't that increase the impact that the fund actually had on the industry as a whole, much more than the funding help?

Just a thought. It is an extremely good idea though.

I noticed that the mentoring idea was mentioned to be up and running. Is it to be on a separate site?

[Goldie]

How about a Western Union branch for us not in the U.K. Doubt that an Australian cheque will be much good to you?

[InFinRetirement]

It has been quite difficult getting things up and running now but the bank details are complete, we should have an account opened very very shortly.

____________________________________________

On another piece of news, of which there will be more details later, is that one of our member's has produced a beautiful painting of a TSR2. He then thought it would be a good idea to let the PPRuNe Fund have full print rights to it, so that we could sell the prints. He will, of course, retain the original, but a printer friend of his has agreed to print a large number of copies for free, and then to destroy the plates after the print run. They will sell at a modest price each.

However, I got in touch with Roland Beamont - TSR2's original Chief Test Pilot - with the help of our own John Farley, and 'Bee', as he is affectionately known, has agreed to 'come out of retirement' and sign around 350 limited editions. A very nice gesture, which is very much appreciated. These will obviously sell as a collectors item. I am also hoping that the deputy Chief Test Pilot, Jimmy Dell, will also sign them. A price for these limited editions will be announced later. They will be available in early March we hope. But it will certainly add much more cash into the fund.

[ExSimGuy]

Slasher

I've missed you! (or not read the right threads?)

I would sincerely hope that the pilots that The Fund helps to put into right-hand seats (and later move to the left!) would be very serious contributors to The Fund in later years!

In the fraternal and philanthropic lodge to which I belong, we hand out assistance ( we don't "do" loans) to where it is needed, but the recipient often puts more back if he finds that our assistance is no longer needed and that he is in a position to help others.

(no "PC-correctness" comments, please - it's a "Male only" organisation :) )

------------------
What Goes Around . . . . .
. . often makes a better landing

[Speedbird 2946]

IFR,

Cracking news about the ground school and the TSR2 prints. I'd like to get my hands on one of them..any chance of a jpeg sample??

Many thanks,

SB

[InFinRetirement]

Absolutely S/Bird. We will put a copy of it where all can see it.

In fact I spoke to 'Bee' Beamont this afternoon and he tells me he is not well. He is now 81, and I suddenly realised how nice it was of him to take this as one last committment.

He is still "bloody annoyed" that TSR2 was dumped! Gave me the date of the very first test flight too. Great man!

[Perfect PFL]

Thanks to all those involved in setting up a pprune fund to help out some wannabes. It's good to see that people involved in aviation are willing to help out those of us striving to break into the industry.
As to whether to make large sponsorships, or more smaller sponsorships, I'm sure that is something that you will decide once you see how successful the fund is at raising money initially.
Let's hope this is the beginning of many more such generous schemes. :)

[G-P-W-S]

Just an idea but how about listing the names of those who have made a donation?
Their consent would obviously be required.
Maybe this would encourage other persons to donate.

Best wishes,
G-P

[InFinRetirement]

GPWS. I would always get the approval of donators before using their 'handles'.

In the next few days donations will be able to be made electronically, which will ease my burden, and make it easier for donors to get their cash into the fund.

[InFinRetirement]

Just a repeat of the above to keep the thread in view. :)

[tunneler]

InFin - Skint until the beggingin of Feb, but the cheque will be in the post asap!

As for the mentoring "workshops" are we talking about a central event or smaller regional ones - which would be a definate bonus!!!

Would love a mentor meself - always nice to get a kick up the arse now and again :) Preferably about 5'10, blonde, leggy..... ooops :)

Seriously InFin from a wannabe whos champing at the bit Good Onya! Nice to know that there are folk out there who actually give a toss in this sometimes horrible world.

B

[InFinRetirement]

It's all very kind of you to shower me with thanks, but it's PPRuNe's bike and I just pedal it! Although, of course, I AM very keen to see it work. So when Danny asked me 7 months ago I was, and still am, going all out to ensure that some wannabes get the benefit of PPRuNe's ever increasing growth and influence. It WILL happen and with all the mass of talent available on PPRuNe it can't possibly fail.

What else would I do with my retirement anyway? So our slogan to give "something back" fits me to a T. I've had a lot from flying and running airlines for 40 years so.............simple really, I'm giving some of it back.

[BigGreenPleasureMachine]

Just to say good plan, ifr ,and to suggest one or two things.
First, one problem that many seem to have(can't speak for myself as I'm not yet airborne, nash nash) is on ground school questions so why not collate a library of sample qns answered by those who know most about it.I can't see this being expensive, and it wouldn't take long for those in the know. There's nothing more frustrating than not making progress due to small gaps in knowledge.
Secondly, quite a few folk complain about poor career advice at school level. In that case, would it not be sensible to use this setup to spread the word in schools, even to the extent of mentors or others revisiting their alma mater to seek out the talent of tomorrow. This could be especially important for those who have come from less priviledged schools where the aeroambitious might have less opportunity or guidance than others.
Well that's my tuppence worth, Here's hoping the scheme's a spectacular success. Maybe it'll help me quit being a student and start playing tig with BA.....

[InFinRetirement]

There is some food for thought there BG but I doubt that we could fit school visits in. The wannabes will come from our own 'stock' and who pass our own selection system. Which will by necessity be tough to avoid time wasters and freeloaders. Dedication will have to be proved.

[Capt PPRuNe]

Just sending this back to the top.

[InFinRetirement]

Ditto :)

[taildragger2]

Nice idea IFR!
I am now halfway through my ATPL's and would have killed to know about PPRuNe when I started out as there was so many grey areas that I and others didn't understand! But the idea of a wannabee fund is TOP!
I think as part of your selection procedure read only threads with a short description of the applicants hopes, dreams and general opinions would work, that way all your visitors could vote on the most deserving (or convincing!) candidate.
Alongside looking for donations why not approach flight schools and training providers offering free advetising on your website for a given period of time in return for flight time, books, equipment etc. It may mean a slightly longer download time but i'll wait an extra 20 secs for the page with the knowledge that some deserving character is not having to go through the same **** I'm putting up with.

It sounds small scale but any costs that can be removed from flight training would be well recieved by any wannabee. Being given 10 hours free, a headset or set of course notes would be another one of those little hoops cleared.

If you fancy taking a more radical approach why not approach these companies and rather than giving the donations straight to the wannabees why not sort out an online auction? I think you'll find people falling over themselves to get a cheap set of David Clarkes online, your pot will soon fill up with hot cash for the poor little mites facing 14 cracking exams written in "central european b u l l s h i t " Mull it over mate I'm off to cry into my airlaw book!

Keep up the good work..................................................Tailwi nds.................TD2

[PaulDeGearup]

This might sound daft but chew it over; there are 20000+ PPruners registered. If each one contributed the equivalent of £100 thta produces £2mill. That should be enough to get a Pprune airline of the ground which would provide jobs for low hour people who can't get in with the big boys coz they haven't got the hours !

[InFinRetirement]

Taildragger. A lot of what you say makes sense. However, I have instigated most of it already but there is far more to selection than your simplistic way. It has to be done with proof that a candidate is committed, dedicated plus many other things, including being worthy, and not a time waster or jump seat raider.

This is a VERY serious project for those who have what it takes. Please read the early posts to see the scope of it.

PDG. Wouldn't that be great! But impossible! For starters not all those registered use PPRuNe any longer and of those that do a donation is a gift that comes as something they can afford. Having said that there has already been some very generous donations and I am sure there will be more. But not the way you suggest.

BUT........if anyone has good ideas for raising funds then let us hear them.

[InFinRetirement]

You will I hope have noticed that the bank account for the PPRuNe Fund is now open.

There is in fact a number of people on this thread who wanted to donate. With many thanks you are now free to do that by any transfer method you choose.

When the details for the June bash are finalised your room and other charges will also be transferred to the account. One bill one cheque is what the hotel want, so no problem.

So, please give as much as you can to the fund, it will grow considerably over the next few months and we can at last offer our wannabes some help with the costs.

I look forward to your donation - however much it is. :) Thank you.

[GoGirl]

Sheesh!! What a read that was!!

Infin et al , I take my hat off to all of you. It is brilliant to see this sort of 'mission' get off the ground...so to speak :)

There is one point, which, to my knowledge, has not yet been raised with regard to this entire propsal.
In the instance that you get Airlines involved in any way, shape or form, will that not then compromise the postion of PPRuNe's content? I mean, let's face it...a lot of topics raised on this BB are directed at the Airlines, and sometimes not in the most positive light.
Unfortunately it is a catch 22 though, because basically, an airline could offer a lot of financial support to a scheme which ye good fellas are wishing to undertake, but at what cost to the essence that makes PPRuNe, PPRuNe. Where would you be able to draw the line.
Example; let's say that BA offers to sink $100000 dollars into the PPRuNe fund, (yes, wouldn't it be lovely!!), however, it is on the condition that no negative content regarding BA, will be tolerated on PPRuNe threads. It may seem all very melodramatic, but I think it's worth considering, and investigating.

Once again, cheers to all for a very exciting venture that's been undertaken!!

Now, what's with these 'BADGES' ? And why haven't I got one :) :) :)


Cheers!
GG

[JB007]

IFR,

I have some ATPL notes, all my own hard work, that I intend to put onto a floppy.
(plus a large amount of Q's feedback)

All latest JAR learning objectives from lectures involving, IMHO, the best teachers in the business and if I don't mind saying so myself - these notes are bloody good.

I was wondering if, for a donation to the PPRuNe fund of course, anybody on distance learning would be interested in them....
OR
Maybe if there was any space on the server to make them available on PPRuNe...???

Just a thought....

------------------
Hear All...See All...Say Now't.

[This message has been edited by JB007 (edited 02 February 2001).]

[InFinRetirement]

GoGirl. VERY good points. The ONE point about the airlines is well taken and I have this very day been "preparing" a letter to send to ALL the UK airlines asking them to participate - actually in various ways. And there are many. So well done in bringing that up. They are the very ones who will benefit after all. In fact, with a shortage of pilots looming in 2002 they SHOULD be looking seriously at our proposals.

Watch this space as they say.

JB007. What you are doing is very useful and I suggest that it would indeed be a benefit to the mentors. So why don't I get you in touch with the "boss" who will I am sure be most happy to have a look at what you have done.

If you are happy with that, send me and e-mail and we can take it from there.

Remember, everyone, ALL inputs will be considered.

IFR

[JB007]

Wilko...
I'll be in touch shortly, away from home at the moment - prob. be back near my own computer an e-mail on the 16th Feb...hope OK ?

Cheers
007

------------------
Hear All...See All...Say Now't.

[InFinRetirement]

Would R N BENNISON please e-mail me re an un-signed cheque. Thanks.

[taildragger2]

IFR
If you read the other threads you will already know I am due to do JAR resits in G.Nav, R.Nav and air law, soon to be followed by all the Module 2 tech subjects. I have had an absolute nightmare getting practice questions and feedback as my school seems to take no intrest in the feedback. Cut a long story short if your notes and feedback for JAR stuff is as good as you say I'll take all of it off your hands asap, just name the price, you can catch me at [email protected] ! Perpaps selling feedback Q+A is a way of generating some money for the fund. I promise I will read the thread properly next time!!! :)Once again keep up the excellent work, it's so nice to see people making an effort!..................................................... .Tailwinds.............TD2

[taildragger2]

Just another quick thought, As 007 mentioned he had some feedback that students such as myself may be able to buy, why not ask exam entrants to send you their feedback questions each month (maybe on an exchange basis) and very soon you will have a massive database of Q+A that would far exceed any database that groundschools have, this would generate huge interest! If you need help in any way (no matter how menial) give me a shout, I'd be more than happy. Again as a student I can't offer much but i'm sure my budget could stretch to a £10 a month standing order...

TD2....

[InFinRetirement]

Taildragger2, I cannot apologise enough for apparently ignoring you. I did see your posts and I thought I had in fact answered them. My only defence is that I have to watch all the Fund threads on different forums. However, I am very sorry.

I note with interest what you say. I am also aware that you are a willing helper and would like to assist. Ok, I might hold you to that and will put this in the file that says "helpful PPRuNers".

[InFinRetirement]

Had a couple of e-mails today saying that transfers had been made to the Fund account, but that they did not want any acknowledgments. OK, that's fine. But thank you very much on behalf of all.

IFR

[Anti Skid On]

Fell on this thread by accident, and only wished it had happened about 5 yrs ago. As a 37 y.o. never likely to be, but very interested member of Pprune I can only praise the idea.

I like the idea of an annual subscription (e.g. £10 per member), which would raise £250K for a start.

I'm due to fly several sectors later this year (MME-LHR-LAX-AKL) so am willing to buy the jumpseat for finals into any of the above (I will post again as a new message with flight no's etc. if that is ok). Would £50 towards the fund be acceptable.

As someone involved in H.E. I can also offer advice re. a variety of subjects in support of the project, so can be counted on to do some of the legwork if needed.

[InFinRetirement]

Anything is acceptable Anti, it is all the little gestures that make up the pot. Thank you for thinking about it.

£10 per year from EVERYONE who is a member of PPRuNe - right now - would be just great but I can't see it ever happening.

Mind you there are 4 million hits every two months on PPRuNe now if each one THOSE sent in £1...........well we can all dream can't we. :)

[InFinRetirement]

:)

[Professor TailSpin]

It's taken me a while but I've now managed to read through all the posts on this thread. What a fantastic idea this fund is, and the mentoring scheme will be priceless to many wannabes!

There was mention on one of the posts of a PPRUNE badge that people could purchase to help towards the fund. Are these badges still available or is there a thread I can look at for more info?

BTW, could you post the bank details on this thread?

Also, I'm sure there are a number of wannabes out there who, although paying out a lot for lessons etc etc, would probably be willing to be pay a monthly 'fee' to the PPRUNE fund to be matched with a mentor. I know I would!!

[InFinRetirement]

Let you into a little secret! I have seen a pic of the new badges and they are absolutely brilliant. Danny wants an adjustment made and then they will be available.

We will let you know when!!!

[InFinRetirement]

Time to go to the top! :)

[InFinRetirement]

Hiya all, I'm back - to 135 e-mails. I'll get to them them after I have got rid of the jet-lag.

[Flypuppy]

Hope you had a good holiday F'in. Just thought I would put this back to the top.

[Trinity 09L]

On 18.3.01 I asked for a FD visit AGP to LGW and was granted this privilege, and then was offered the jump seat for landing. Did not resist the night approach. In return a cheque for £30 to the fund. I have not mentioned the flight no: in case of rules etc. But many thanks to those gentlemen for the experience and their professionalism.

[InFinRetirement]

Oh I like that! Thanks to you Trinity and thanks to the crew, what a great idea. More please. Look forward to receiving your cheque Trinity.

[InFinRetirement]

I have today received an 'anonymous' cheque for a £100 and a cheque for $20 for the fund. To those gentlemen, thank you kind sir's it will be put to good use.

Does me jet lag a lot of good that! :)

[Dr Feelgood]

It took me 10 years from getting a PPL to my first job, dropping skydivers. I'll be finished paying the bank in another 10 years. I reckon the mentoring scheme is a great idea further help a little less so. There are other ways for commercial pilots to help the wannabe's. I don't know any working airline pilots who take less than £30 an hour for PPL instruction. One could hardly say they are giving back to the industry!
I don't know any school who will send a pupil to an exam without having been paid hansomely for their textbooks and services.
I believe the expertise is already present within this forum and all we need is to establish an approved school to send pupils to the exams.
That is to say, how about PPRUNE Flight Academy? Might upset your sponsors.
On the other hand, anyone so dedicated to the business will make it in the end.
The mentoring scheme is best. It doesn't have to cost any money. Hands up any instructors willing to teach for free in his spare time.
I would!

[Dr Feelgood]

I believe it was Air Atlantique who wrote to CFI's asking for recommendations for sponsorship.
Not a bad place to start. Its the chance a hangar rat would dream of. I did and got to the last 12 at interview. Just getting close gives you a boost.
Don't go for the political correctness though. Just take the best candidates and leave it at that. If sex, race, religion and shoe size is not relevant, don't mention it.

[InFinRetirement]

Back to the top.

[InFinRetirement]

With almost every payment for the seminars and the Bash, I am very happy to tell you that the fund is growing all the time with generous donations of an 'extra' £5 or £10 and a few of £75, or £20 or whatever. It is just a great feeling.

Thank you to all those who have made donations (however large or small) or put additional money into the fund. We cannot do without it and there is every reason to feel good about the way it's all going.

I hate to say keep it coming, but I am sure you will not mind.

Perhaps there are some ideas for raising money at the Bash. Please let us hear about them.

Thanks again from this humbly.

[InFinRetirement]

£50 here, £70 there, £5 as well - it all adds up and is now getting close to £3000.

With the bash, the Harrier Photos and the TSR2 prints to come up for sale shortly, I have no doubt that we will be in 5 figures before you know it.

There are some really generous people out there --- Thank you so very much. It is very much appreciated.

A humble (but we still need more) IFR