Early Morning Landings at Heathrow

[HeathrowAirport]

Hello,

I was wondering as being a local to Heathrow airport and living under the ILS for Runway 27R, I was wondering what methods do pilots use apart from a continous decent approach to limit noise for below London.

Do pilots late night and early morning that fly into Heathrow prefer the plane to bring them down the Glide path to a certain altitude such as 1DME at 450 (373)ft and then manual the landing, is there a specific point at when the Landing gear comes down and or more speed and less flaps on the approach.

Thanks in advanced.

Regards,

Robbie

[boeing_bananas]

Hi,

Can't say that I've ever seen anyone do anything different for v.early/late arrivals - we always do our best to make as little noise as we can.

On my a/c type (B744), we generally put the gear down at just under 2000' (6 miles) above the ground, and the final stage of flap is normally selected at around 1500' (4 miles).

Whether the autopilot is engaged or we are hand-flying we should fly the same continuous descent profile, and the glideslope/PAPIs are followed down to the flare.

Hope that answers your questions, and I'll do my best not to wake you up!

BB.

[HeathrowAirport]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your reply, I understand that you also cant use Reversers am I correct after 23:30, going for most London Airports that is, not just EGLL what Autobrake setting would you normally use without reverse thrust?

Very rarely do the planes wake me up, the noisest one always seems to be the one from Hong Kong though, the First BA Hong kong flight (BAW25) I believe, if thats due to Im not used to the noise for the last 24hrs (taking into account higher noise level at day than night for enviroment) or its just due a very heavy payload, its always noisy.

Regards,

Robbie

[AircraftOperations]

A lot of BA aircraft do (or did) try to avoid reverse thrust where possible when landing at LHR at any time of the day, I understand.
Not sure whether these landings are made with manual braking only, or with autobrakes selected.

LHR doesn't have any aircraft landing after 23.30 each day, unless they agree to accept a delayed arrival/VIP flight or medical flight.

Simple things like strength and direction of wind will make a difference as to how noisy an aircraft seems to people on the ground, both on approach and slowing down on the runway.

[Rainboe]

BA does have a few 'night slots' for landings overnight. I always used to feel guilty creeping in over London early in the morning darkness!

That early HKG arrival is about 0430 isn't it? I always used to creep in with minimum flap as long as possible. You can get away with gear down at 1500' RA and extend from Flap 20 to get to 1000' with full flap and the speed just dropping into the margin. It's standard procedure with BA and most other airlines to restrict power at busy airports to reverse idle only. You will find that BA never uses more. Autobrake sets up a deceleration rate. Using reverse power merely reduces braking requirement to meet that deceleration rate, so the use of reverse thrust does not actually make the slow down quicker. You would slow down just as quick by leaving the engines in forward thrust, according to the autobrake setting.

[boeing_bananas]

Hi again,

I can't think of any operational reason why BA26 would make any more noise than any other arrival - as you say it probably just stands out a bit more as it's (one of) the first. Most landing weights will be similar regardless of point of departure.

You're correct that LHR requests no reverse thrust between 2330 and 0600 (unless it's required for safety reasons obviously).

Standard landing config for our 744s into LHR is autobrake 3, reverse idle, regardless of the time of day. Incidentally, reverse thrust (or the lack of it) doesn't make any difference to the landing distance when using autobrakes - all it does is save a bit of brake wear - the deceleration rate is unchanged.

Regards,

BB.

[Rainboe]

You got to get up early to beat me boy!

[HeathrowAirport]

Well those whom fly into Heathrow I honestly dont mind the noise becuase there is nothing I can forcibly do about it, I just go back off within a couple of minutes or more :8

04:05z (05:05L)am for BAW26 (G-BNLT) is the time of arrival.

So BA use reverse idle on most of there a/c anytime of the day?

Regards,

Robbie

[Rainboe]

Yes they do you reverse idle all the time on their aircraft, with exceptional use of reverse in some places, but not noise sensitive ones like LHR or LGW ever, at all.

Having once lived on a lorry route and up a hill where trucks hammered their way up at 4 am, I would say aeroplane noise is far preferable to trucks and those awful high reving motorbikes. People seem to live with those, but aeroplanes get them out in the streets rioting. Very weird.

[WindSheer]

04:05z (05:05L)am for BAW26 (G-BNLT) is the time of arrival.


Surely the reg' keeps changing....:confused:

[FLCH]

Having once lived on a lorry route and up a hill where trucks hammered their way up at 4 am, I would say aeroplane noise is far preferable to trucks and those awful high reving motorbikes. People seem to live with those, but aeroplanes get them out in the streets rioting. Very weird.

Rainboe,

You should try the all night delights of Newark NJ ! The norm is about 3-4 passes of either police cars or fire trucks which have a station a couple of blocks down from my crash pad (slum house for pilots and flight attendants) ...sirens on, despite no traffic on the street, sometimes even making that wonderful sound like they are rapping with said siren, sprinkle that with occasional round or two of gunfire it makes for a delightful and restful night !!

Apologies for the thread drift.

[HeathrowAirport]

Windsheer,

It was for that flight, obviously they do, but that particular flight that day was LT.

[ProM]

I think that the 0430 flight will sound louder for two reasons

Firstly it is not long before dawn when the air is near its coolest. Cool air transmits sound better. There is even possibly an effect from the cool air reducing mixing of air near the ground which would produce calmer conditions which would conduct sound better as well (not sure on that bit)

Secondly, there are fewer other sounds. We perceive sound relatively so this one will stand out. To see what I mean, drive on the motorway, get the stereo volume adjusted to be good volume for music. Next morning get in car and turn on to same volume. Loud isn't it? (Many/most modern car stereos automatically revert to a default setting when turned on for this reason). You ought to hear how load the birds are round my way at 0500. No other noises so they are deafening

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

ProM. All very interesting but I believe there are other factors too. Is it not the case that people can become accustomed to regular noise providing that they don't start out by making it an intrusion in their lives? I used to live on one of the approaches to Brize Norton and when they were training with VC10s the noise was considerable. We soon got used to it but my wife and I love aeroplanes and I think that was a major factor in us accepting the noise. It did not disturb our two young sons, who were 3 and 1 at the time - they slept through it all.

On the other side of the coin.... I hate thoughtless neighbours who have parties halfway through the night with loud music, because it is selfish and unnecessary. The sound level might well be below that of passing aircraft but the fact that I find it irritating from square one means I cannot sleep through it.