ryanair to start new york flights

[biggles 101]

Michael o leary the CEO of ryanair is in negotiations with an airport north of jfk to start flights as early as december 2001.It has been hinted that the longer range 737 900 series aircraft may be used with flights from Dublin or shannon to Newyork.The no frills operator has indicated that fares may start as low as £130 pounds return.The airport in question is hancock international airport
p.s this is not a joke.

[This message has been edited by biggles 101 (edited 01 April 2001).]

[G-BPEC]

Hmmm, April Fools Day today isn't it? Seriously though, if this is true it will open up a whole new market for no frills, low cost airlines, once one starts they'll all be doing it.

BPEC

[biggles 101]

this is not a joke as far as i am aware the airport in question is called hancock international airport some where in ny state

[BOEINGBOY1]

well they won't get ETOPS clearance for quite some time "if ever". and even if hell froze over and they got 3hrs ETOPS clearance, they ain't ever going to be able to carry 150+ pax, baggage and sufficeint fuel for a 7hr flight. besides, for not alot more cash you can sit in luxury aboard a nice "mega jet" with free drinks, more room and arrive at an airport that people have heard of. also they could have flown 6rtn dub-uk flights in the same time as a return nyc flight and made alot more cash.
deffinately April 1st joke.

[This message has been edited by BOEINGBOY1 (edited 01 April 2001).]

[euroboy]

Isn`t it 1 April today.....Fools Day :)

But it could be another Laker SkyTrain.

[biggles 101]

well continental were going to put a 737 800 on the shannon route but the unions would not agree to it,this is why a 900 series would be used because it has a longer range higher mtow and if boeing stats are correct you could carry 180 pax etops two fmcs of course to nyc and the flight time from dub is about six hours.Ryanair predict they could make a profit,they may prove us wrong

[MD90jockey]

Who in the world would spend 7 hrs in the lousy company of Ryanair ?????

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In thrust we trust

[gyrohead]

Yeah right!!

Which passenger in their right mind would take the crappy service offered by the Ryans on a longhaul service to the USofA. Its bad enough in Europeas it is. This has to be rumour mongering at its worst. I'll be sick as a dog if it happens.

[Old King Coal]

Uhm, I'd doubt that MOL is daft enough to have a go at this.

The phrase 'economy of scale' comes immediately to mind, i.e. that's (imho) why these days we have wide-bodies doing these routes, and not B707's and DC8's - ok, the occasional B757 does do it, but it's probably a lot more capable (read 'tried & tested' ) than a B739 - and yeah, the B739 might be able to do it - but would you (and the pax) want to ?!

Now with the majors already cutting each others throats over excess capacity on North Atlantic routes, and when you've got an already well recognised short-haul product / brand / niche-market, why try and face-up to them ?! e.g. perhaps a relevant example is (was) People Express - i.e. you'd get your arse kicked big time !

Also, from Northern Europe, even a TFS in a B737 at M.74/.75 seems like a long way, never mind anywhere in the State of NY - and it'd sure seem even longer when every other bugger on the route is flying well into the .8's.

Ps. It's a good 1st April wind-up I reckon.

[upwiththebirds]

Not a Ryan myself, but they don't seem to be short of punters for what I read descibed as a "crappy " service now do they!!!? Jealousy again! Read the balance sheet and weep!
Good wind up but the aircraft stats. don't bear it out...Nice try though!!

[upwiththebirds]

O. K. C.
Just a tech point as what you said is surely correct but mmo on the B737NG is 0.82 and an average cost index gives a 0.795 cruise. Never going to set the world on fire but it's not the slug it once was!!!

[biggles 101]

I was recently in seattle on an acceptance delivery flight and had a long discussion with some boeing technicians about the performance of the ng aircraft,I was told that the envelope was being increased on the 738/9 series aircraft to econ cruise of .82 and thats better than the A330 which makes it not a bad aircraft all round.

[upwiththebirds]

I look forward to reading the figures Biggles but it seems to burn a couple of hundred kilos an hour extra going from 0.79 to 0.81.

[Juliet November]

Was just wondering how this will affect the statistics of DVT cases ? 7 hours with the knees wrapped around one's head does not sound terribly fun to me. Have never flown with the jolly chaps of Ryan, but have served sufficient time in the back of other aircraft in similar (charter) configuration to speak with a certain degree of knowledge, and a 3 hour flight in any of those coffins is about all the abuse my body will accept. 7 hours in similar "comfort" will be the killer of all flights.

Well, it is April 1st.

DT

[AJ]

"Yeah right!!
Which passenger in their right mind would take the crappy service offered by the Ryans on a longhaul service to the USofA. Its bad enough in Europeas it is."

Now THAT has to be the biggest pile of b******s I've ever read on PPRUNE!!

Gyrohead, since when did you consider yourself spokesman for the general public!!?

(If you were joking, apologies!)

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Good Morning Buenos Aires

[biggles 101]

I believe it will not burn any significant extra fuel,as the aircraft will come with winglets fitted as standard,so Boeing tell me .I hope this clarifys your query

[biggles 101]

Dublin Newyork does not take seven hours it takes an average of six hours.

[BOEINGBOY1]

no - nyc to dublin takes an average of 6hrs.
dub- nyc will take a heck of a lot longer.
and besides, the wx over the north atlantic is very un-forgiving, so you need a healthy reserve. where does ryanair plan to fix all of these extra fuel tanks ?

leave it to the professionals.

[sofsonteaser]

It must be April fools. Nobody whant to sit on Crappy Ryan Scair for 7 or 8 hours. Only loosers whant to sit there for 1 hour :) And only big time loosers whant to be a slave for them :) :) :) :)

[100LL]

Hey for £130 Ret I'll sit any where. Ryan scare in my opinion are far better than Go Even tho it is 1St April

[Electric Sky]

If this should happen I guess Ryanair would be cramming as many seats on the plane as possible ..... where does this leave the blood clotting debate???????

[SkyClear]

Biggles - I am sure we are all wanting to know where you got this 'solid' rumour from. Prove us all wrong that this is not a wind up!

sofsonteaser - Get a life and take your head out of your a**e. We're all in the same game.

[upwiththebirds]

Cheers Biggles!
Hope they'll retrofit the existing fleet. Might make some of the "level 2" routes more tollerable!

[Wino]

There are several airlines doing stage lengths that are around that distance already in the NG737, quite profitably I might add. The 737NG is a much higher climber than the A320 and cruises as fast as a 757 now.

American is Running ORD-ANC
ALOHA is running Hawaii to Las Vegas (180 min etops requied)
Southwest is now doing transcon flying as well.

The size of the aircraft doesn't really matter. Its about seatmile costs...

If you give the people enough room within their seats and enough Lavs, (E.G. AA's more room through coach program) the actual size of the aircraft does not matter except for the flight crew's paycheck.

Its all about connecting city pairs. If Ryan air is gonna connect two secondary cities, they will be able to avoid airport crushes, huges lines, expensive parking etc. That has been southwest's formula all along. Southwest pulled out of Denver, SFO etc...

You guys aren't studying closely enough. Its all about point to point these days. The more points the better. The crush on the airline infrastructure is at the airports, not up in the air.

Cheers
Wino

[genius-747]

you joined pprune only 1 day ago, if you continue posting silly comments such as you done today, you will so be ignored here. please do not joke on this site.
thank you.

[Bored Cheese]

BOEINGBOY 1

When reading your posts why do the words "pompous" and "trite" spring to mind.
"Leave it to the professionals". You degenerate swine, how good are you? I bet that you are the type of pilot who regularly tramples other pilots on the RT etc etc.

There are plenty of excellent airmen and women working for Ryanair and you do their future careers either in or out of Ryanair no help whatsoever.

Fancy a pint next time I see you.

[Mr Crabtree]

figures, figures, figures, very technical there are obviously some people here who know their stuff, but as long as you get there without crashing i don't give a rat's ass.

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Jake the Snake
a.k.a "The Crab"

[BOEINGBOY1]

bored cheese.
sorry. i can see how my earlier posting could have caused offence. what i was trying to say was that ryanair has no experience whatsoever of ETOPS flying, or of the sector lengths involved, and of this new a/c. it appears that they are trying to rush the process through and to do too much too soon. what is more is that nobody at all fly's 737's on that route. the new 737ng may a far better performance envelope, but (and its a very big but) it has no proven track record. existing transatlantic airlines and the a/c that they fly such as 747/757/767/777 a300/330 all have had proven track records before being accepted for ETOPS clearance.

ryanair will have to prove themselves very strongly, and it will be a lengthy process in order for etops certification to be granted.

[noax2grind]

Gentlemen Please!
This is a rumour network. if it was a fact we could read it in Flight!
There are plenty of NG 737`s doing ETOPs already, both -800s and BBJ`s.
How about LAX-LHR with 40 mins in the hold at
BNN?

[FrontWindowSeat]

I assume that the destination would be KSYR, Syracuse Hancock International, NY which is about 250 miles / 5 hours north of the Big Apple. (That's about the same driving time to Manhatten as from Newark ;-) )

I'm tempted to believe RyanAir might be considering the much-closer-to-NYC White Birch Field Airport in Hancock, NY
www.airnav.com/airport/4N8 (http://www.airnav.com/airport/4N8)
where the single runway, 17/35 is 1900ft of fair quality turf :-)

[BOEINGBOY1]

noax2grind.
and how many pax to they have on board ??
whats the range of a 737-800 with say 150 pax onboard + 20kgs baggage per person, and carrying the fuel required for north atlantic flying. plus, if additional fuel tanks are to be fitted, baggage space will be reduced, and 737's have a habit of bulking out with those sort of loads expected. even on a direct route i forcast many a tech stop !! plus the fact that if they have to fly the blue spruce route for a while, whilst awaiting approval they are deffinately going to have to tech stop.
plus if the lead in price is going to be £130 from dub, add on an extra £50 for uk-dub and presuming this includes tax, doesn't seem any cheaper than that offered by ba,vs,ua,aa,co etc !!
personally still think this is a wind up. or at least i hope it is !!!

[biggles 101]

boeing boy ryanair plan and i emphasise plan to use a 737 900 series aircraft which from my boeing source has a higher mtow and longer range.As ryanair is an irish airline they intend to operate a no frills service from dub or snn to an airport called hankok in ny.This is a secondary airport and is easy to get in and out of.It has a high speed link to downtown ny,this is ryanairs type of airport cheap and cheerful,for 130 pounds you pay for what you get point a to b thats it.It is working for them everywhere else so why not here.Continental airlines operate a 757 from jfk to snn daily which has almost identical performance as a 737 900 series aircraft and the 900 series cruises faster so i hope this clarifys your query.

[Flyin' High]

Having spoken recently with Tim Jeans at Ryanair, there is no way that they would fly 6 or 7 hour sectors. They pulled one of the Italian routes because (among other things) the aircraft utilisation was too low.

They consider anything over 3 hrs to be too long of their operation. High frequency short-haul operations is the Ryanair game.

Nice April Fool.. seems to have "got" a few folk :)

MG

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Speak your mind - It proves you have one! :)

[biggles 101]

for your informaton the profit per seat mile on the 737 900 series is an acceptable profit
it is hard to believe but they are seriously looking at the route no one ever believed ryanair before but if you looked on flight a few months ago then you would have seen an article about it and its viability o leary said"we have no immediate plans but we are always looking for new ideas"time will tell why not

[sofsonteaser]

> Skyclear> Yeee right I have a life and a good job without slavery conditions ( 100 hrs a month). But keep up the good work and Dont ! save money to your retirement. By the age of 60 in Ryan Scair you will be dead :) And by the way, I can get my head out of my A'ss'e because yours a stock there :)

Front seat window> the airport you mentioned must be to close to N.Y.
A typical Ryan Scair airport is at least 6 hrs from nowhere.

[Augustus Finknottle]

April fools or not - the last thing I would want to see as I tuck into the cheeseboard at 30W is some cowboy from a low cost "airline" hurtling towards me. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

I'm getting indigestion just thinking about it.

[Augustus Finknottle]

Further to my last.....

It has just been pointed out to me by a fellow PPRuNer (we're sharing the facilities and beverages of a most agreable CyberCafe downroute) that the use of the term "cowboy" may be somewhat derogatory to the many Americans we meet on our travels. I therefore wish to retract it and substitute "Croatian goat herder" in it's place. I trust this has resolved the matter.

Right, back to the the Wolfblass.

[OneWorld22]

Augustus, I understand you must be a bit p***ed or else that Australian vinegar you're drinking is giving you hallucinations, but you've just insulted a hell of a lot of pilots here in PPRuNeland.

For all our benefit can you clarify what you're saying? Do you think that those working for Ryanair, Go, Easyjet, Southwest, Buzz etc are in some way inferior to pilots in the majors? Are they more reckless with regards to safety, or do you think that they couldn't handle the "rocket Science" that is the NatTrack system.

Whether you like it or not and obviously you don't, these Pilots are excellent airmen, fully trained to top standards and many are also highly experienced, they work bloody hard and get well paid for it.

Keep drinking Augustus and you might start to make sense, I hope you haven't lowered yourself to be sitting in one of Stelios' cafes?

[iflyboeing747]

Augustus
Your occupation "Gentleman Aviator" is not really justyfied in your last two comments..
One should be careful - like OneWorld22 also indicates - not to insult colleagues..
You never know when you need to have them as friends..
OK - this posting was apparently an Aprils Fools so I would consider everything posted within as a joke..
A lively business indeed - changing from day to day..

[SkyClear]

For 'sofsonteaser':-

I apologise. I just got a little wound up. Those in it know they work more than anyone else. Those wanting to join know it too. Everybody chooses what they want to do. I am in it for the money. I felt to describe us (and there are a lot of us) as fools was inappropriate.

Each to his own.

[SkyClear]

...sorry, 'loosers'!

[sofsonteaser]

>Sky clear> ;) Oh yeah and do you earn all thoose money.???? I know a german guy flying 738 in Asia now, who just left Ryan Air and he was not happy with his Ryan salary !!!

But keep up the good spirit and fly your 100 hrs a month :) and enjoy your low life :rolleyes:

[SkyClear]

Oh yes, that German guy. We all remember him!

We better keep our bickering off this thread...

[Gentleman Aviator]

There was me thinking that I was the only 'Gentleman Aviator' on this forum!

:)

[SaturnV]

Passengers would be well advised to bring skis and high boots. Hancock airport (Syracuse) has so far this winter reported 191.9 inches of snow. Train from Syracuse station (about 6 miles from the airport) to New York City is about a 5 hour ride and I would guess a roundtrip train ticket would cost about $75.00

[David H]

I am sure this is indeed an April 1 wind-up, but if by any chance the Ryans are considering it for the future, they should look at their atlas and consider the airports at Stewart, or Islip, or White Plains, or even Trenton/Mercer, New Jersey, all of which are within 50 to 60 miles of New York City.

Hancock ? ROFL. It's like taking a flight to London and ending up in Carlisle.

[sofsonteaser]

They already end up in Carlisle, dont they . :)

[G-force]

You're all missing the point- it's not a route to New York that the Ryans are looking at, but a new route to York!
P.S.
I hope that the German guy's single engine flying is up to par now!

[SkyClear]

G-Force. I think you are probably right with York. I believe there is a grass strip there at the race course!

[David H]

York Rufforth has a nice 4000 feet asphalt strip. Twins are PPR !