Moderators Overkill?

[RodH]

Why on earth have the Moderators closed the thread I posted about the bad behaviour of Australia's PM on a flight?
Are the moderators so high and mighty that they ignore the incident that is making headlines in Australia on TV and in the newspapers about it?
This happened on an Aeroplane in flight and involved a Flight attendant.
What more is required for it to qualify for this Forum?
Sure it has Political overtones but is that not what debates and forums are for and as this involved Aviation it should rightfully be in it?
One simply cannot bury ones head in the sand and say it did not happen and it's all over now.
It did and it's not.
If it was a football team or a celebrity it would probaly still be here but just because it is a bit political there is no reason to lock it in my opinion.
The big issue about this behaviour is that the PM ONLY apologised two months AFTER the incident and then only when it was revealed.
It does not matter what your political persuasion is this is not accetpable behaviour from a person of such high standing in this country or indeed anyone.
In a democratic society we have the right to express our opinions and debate them in open forums , but alas this seems not to be the case in this forum.
It is a very sad day indeed when we can't have our say.
What a shame.
:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad: :sad::sad::sad:

[Zoomy]

So what, the PM is not allowed to voice his opinion when not receiving the dish he ordered. If you were at a restaurant and received catfish instead of chicken, you would be pretty pissed off too. Mate the guy doesn't get to eat at home alot, just like Pilots, so when you want a decent meal you want a decent meal.
The hostie was probably a bit over emotional when he showed signs of disgust and disappointment with his dish. Get a life, get over it and get on with your job. I thought the forces had staff with a bit of balls. As chopper would say, Toughen the Fu$k up Australia.

So it was probably taken off because it is a bit of crap news.:ugh::ugh:

[RENURPP]

I thought the same. Why can't we comment on our illustrious leader here? It's certainly aviation related.

I recall other threads regarding passenger John Smith making unwanted comments towards crew, no closing of threads.

Rudd sets a poor example and should be treated as any other passenger.
Is it now acceptable to abuse your QF Cabin crew when they serve up a meal thats not up to standard? (I use QF as they are the only one that serve meals unless you actually order a specific meal, like a 3 week old ham sandwhich etc)

Hey you B^%Ch, I want a steak not this vegetarian crap. I paid good money for this ticket, you go back to the kitchen and get me a real meal. Right NOW. for F%^ks sake. Might as well travel with Jetstar. :8

A precedent has now been set. Its OK every one makes mistakes and he apologised. :yuk:
Its not even rumour, he openly admits it. :confused: Maybe thats why it was removerd?

[Beeroclock]

Yeah i cant see why the thread about Mr Sheen was locked...

[RodH]

Everyone has the right to complain but not to berate a person to tears.
There are Discrimination Tribunals that hear these complaints and act if they are justified.
Do you really think this F/A will go that far?
Not Likely.
This is why it must be out in the open for all of us to digest and make an opinion.
Is that too hard for you to comprehend?
We should be able to debate/discuss this without censoring.
Let us continue to discuss this as adults without fear or favour.
Let's see just how un biased the moderators are and ask them to re-open the thread for sensible debate.
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[domo]

Give the moderators a break, only for them you could not post on this forum. They dont get paid and do this for the love of it.
post the story under rude passengers in the hostie forum.
Get over your sense of self importance

[Hempy]

Moderators are here to moderate, I've done it myself and it's not easy. It IS the height of rudeness though to remove a post/thread and not have the common decency to at least PM the poster and explain why (or at least that) their post is MIA :hmm:

[tipsy2]

Hempy, eloquently says
It IS the height of rudeness though to remove a post/thread and not have the common decency to at least PM the poster and explain why (or at least that) their post is MIA

I have frequented this Rumour Network since the mid/late 90's and I have never seen it happen. I suspect the people involved and the origin of the Network has had a marked effect on the evolution of the Moderator standards. Perhaps I should say, the variable and often inconsistent standards. Suggesting the Moderation was such has caused many genuinely concerned posters to be banned for simply questioning those that saw themselves as "unquestionable" and infallible.

Ofcourse I know better now and would never suggest there was anything ever wrong or even inconsistent in the standard/s of Moderation.

At least the D&G Mods do not come across as PPP's

[Arnold E]

Try changing the menue in your resturant at 35000':=

[HotDog]

The FA did not load the meals ordered, she only served them. KRUDD should know better to chastise the appropriate department.:suspect:

[Here to Help]

The thread should just have been moved to Cabin Crew or Military Aircrew. And before anyone gets their nose out of joint, I have seen far more relevant and important threads (that actually have something to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed") than this re-attempt moved or locked. I have alse seen many more threads that have nothing to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed" survive.

[Wod]

I'd hazard a guess that it was locked
A) Because it's boring.
B) Because some of the usual suspects turned up and tried to hijack it.

FWIW If I was chartering the aircraft, was asked what menu options I wished to choose, had Kerry O'Brien, Whatsit Jones and Malcolm Turnbull in my face all bloody day, and then was offered steak when I expected fish, I just might say "That's all I bloody need", or words to that effect.

Ultimately it is a boring bit of gossip.

[teresa green]

He joins a couple of former prime ministers and one minister for foreign affairs (no, it was not Downer) for being pigs on aircraft, I have personally witnessed it myself, perhaps they are stressed out, perhaps they are buggered, perhaps they are just pigs, who knows, but then again I have also seen some Captains throw a hissy fit as well, especially from you know who.I have also seen some great putdowns by some senior flight attendants, who don't take any crap from anybody, and I love the one they say at the door to the offender "so long until tomorrow"they say with a beaming smile ( you work it out) also loved the one by the male senior flight attendant (gay) to the real little princess from some trumped up little european backyard region who on protesting loudly as she was told to put up her table due to heavy turbulence, screamed at him " I am a princess don't speak to me like that, he replied " so big deal darls I am a queen so I outrank you, so put up your frekkin table, NOW!

[Obie]

...another little boring made up story from TG who delights in living in the made up past! :ok:

[tail wheel]

"It is a very sad day indeed when we can't have our say."

So, Rod, what would you like to say that is Australian commercial aviation/RPT/GA related, about an issue which is last month's news, been flogged to death on TV, involving a dispute between a Prime Minister and a military flight attendant over a meal?

That it occurred in an aircraft, and a military aircraft at that, appears to be purely coincidental!

Do you wish to post some further aviation related facts of which we are not aware, or do you intend to start a political debate on a professional aviation forum? If the latter this thread will also be locked.

What Wod said!

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[BN APP 125.6]

Here we go again :hmm:

You have just reinstated the same thread that was locked in a round about way.

Cue the political partisan rhetoric.

[RodH]

I would like to respond to your post as follows.

You used my Quote:
"It is a very sad day indeed when we can't have our say."

My response is:
If you care to read it carefully you may see the words " Our say"
NOT " My Say ".

You also ask:
"So, Rod, what would you like to say that is Australian commercial aviation/RPT/GA related".
Why have you excluded the Military when they do have a section in these Forums?
When you ask what I would like to say I ask you:
What about all of the others that may wish to contribute to these threads?
Are they to be excluded?

You say that
" this is an issue which is last month's news,been flogged to death on TV "

It believe it was not in the news last Month and from what I can ascertain it happened in Janurary.
How can you say it has been flogged to death when it has only been on TV for less than 24Hrs?
There have been other threads on unruly/abusive passengers that have run for quite a while so why not this one?
Are you afraid of an issue that involves a politician?

Regarding:
"Do you wish to post some further aviation related facts of which we are not aware of?"
How can we do that?
By locking that thread you have prevented members from doing exactly what you have just asked .
One of the greatest attributes of Forums is to invite others in to discuss and enlighten us on issues so maybe there could have been others that would have posted information that we are not aware of.
.A very good reason for threads like these is it gives people a chance to express their views and quite often information that would otherwise not be made public for fear of retribution comes to light.
It does happen that people who are afraid to go public on similar occurrences may well bring them to light in Forums.

It is not Political Rhetoric it is a discussion about what took place in an Aviation related situation.
Sure, I and others have had a go at Rudd but if it were any other Polly or Person of note we would have done the same.
People of high profile are always the subject of comments be it favourable or otherwise.

Moderators are there to prevent abusive,defamatory,false,misleading etc. articles and to redirect them to the correct place if necessary.
It is surely not the job of a moderator to lock something that may go against his personal feelings as to whether it has had enough time or has a bit of lively debate in it.
That is for the members to decide.
If there is a lack of interest then there will not be any further input from Forum Members.

I know there will be some who will berate me and some who agree but that's democracy and just what Forums are for and I feel I must have my say on this issue.

Anyway you will do what you like ,it may not be necessarily what some
like, but you will do as you wish.

Use your discretionary powers wisely.
:):):)

[Zoomy]

Rod, get over it mate. Were you there. I bet it was as simple as he was frustrated and the hostie a bit over emotional. No you cant change the meals at 35000' but you can sure check them before you accept them.

I stand by my saying toughen the Fu$k up Australia. Stop having a winge and get on with it.

This is a friggin media spinner this one.

:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{

[Torres]

What is there to discuss? Boring non aviation thread! :ugh:

[AxelPNG]

Zoomy, could not agree more.

Didn't he apologise at the time? Pretty sure he did.

PNG can do that to a bloke....

[Pinky the pilot]

PNG can do that to a bloke....

Especially when he probably saw where and how the million or so Aussie dollars per day in aid to that place gets (mis) spent!:ugh:

[Kelly Slater]

This thread is about moderators, not the origonal topic. I have to back RodH, if the thread is boring or irrelevant or last months news, it will die a natural death and doesn't need to be moderated. Everthing in moderation, even moderation.

[blackhand]

Having been banned by a moderator for upsetting one of his little playmates, I too agree that moderation in moderating should be implemented moderately.

Blackhand of the universe and beyond

[Old Fella]

Just a couple of observations. We can all say what we like, however if the Moderator determines the comment is offensive, even if only to himself/herself, the moderator "owns" the ball and there is little we can do about it. WOD, I was not aware that the PM charters the 34 Sqn aircraft. I guess the cost comes out of the PM's travel budget, but to suggest that Mr Rudd personally charters the aircraft is gilding the lilly a bit I think.

At the risk of getting my post banned, I would not trust Mr Rudd and his clan to run a two hole toilet. It is easy to be popular when you spend taxpayers funds like a drunken sailor by handing it out to half the population as well as to non-residents, gaol inmates and to deceased estates to the tune of $96.6 Million. Fiscal conservative, NOT. Oh, and by the way Mr Moderator, what was the inference in "that it occurred in an aircraft, and a military aircraft at that" comment? Do you perceive military aircraft and their crew being somehow less worthy than civil operations?

[Wod]

Old Fella - Sorry. I meant that he is like a charter customer, in that the flight is to suit his itinerary, and like a charter customer he will be asked what catering preferences he might have well before departure.

If he then has a rotten day at the office and the wrong meal turns up stuff happens.

[Ken Borough]

I didn't see the deleted thread so can't comment on what the Mods are alleged to have done. After all, they have a job to do whether we like it or not!

As for the PM and his purported tantie - the press need to put things into perspective and 'get real'. Here we have our PM at a meeting of the world's leaders to address the GFC and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and all the Australian media can do is bang on about something that happened on an RAAF VIP aircraft some months ago.

As to what actually happened, the RAAF also needs to get its act together. The PM is described as "Number 1 VIP". If the RAAF staff cannot provide the ordered/requested catering, they should hire staff who can. Not only that, they must have the discretion and tact to respect the privacy and mores of the VIP and his party. Can anyone imagine the wrong catering being loaded on and leaked "tell-tale" stories from Air Force One? Or from Qantas for that matter? :(:(


----------------------------

The thread was not deleted; it is inappropriate in this forum and now locked.

Poor Half Starved Prime Minister (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/368481-poor-half-starved-prime-minister.html)

Tail Wheel

[Pole Vaulter]

When will the dills out ther in Pprune land understand that Pprune IS NOT A DEMOCRATIC board. If you want one start your own. This has to be moderated or legal issues will arrise and those who post crap could end up being sued. Get over it and stop the political crap. Stick to AVIATION.

[tail wheel]

Old Fella

Do you perceive military aircraft and their crew being somehow less worthy than civil operations?

Not at all. However this forum is........

D & G Reporting Points: Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed.

There is a separate excellent PPRuNe Forum for military aviation.

Pole Vaulter. Could not have said it better myself! :ok:

[Old Fella]

Come on Tail Wheel, how come you have not given your advice regarding the Military Aircrew forum to the 23 posts which preceeded mine? You were the one who made a point of the incident happening on a military aircraft, so how about consistency?

[Avitor]

Here we go again :hmm:

You have just reinstated the same thread that was locked in a round about way.

Cue the political partisan rhetoric.

He's a politician, isn't he? The way I see it, you are the partisan one here.

Have a nice day. :)

[paulg]

Old Fella. Maybe it was because you made blatantly party political comments in your post. You are evidently a respected and experienced aviator and I am sure your views about aviaton issues are vaued by many, including myself. But please don't tell us about your political views. They are not relevant to this forum.
Kind regards
Paul

[4PW's]

I wrote to Moderators of all the Forums a few months ago regarding banner advertisements on this website, a cursory investigation of which illuminated several as patently obvious Ponzi schemes.

As my intent was to warn PPRuNers of this gross misrepresentation, I also started several threads on the most-viewed Forums. The result of all this was to see each thread deleted. Not one remained beyond a day.

PPRuNe Central utterly ignored the warning, so beware.

Of my missives to the Moderators and PPRuNe itself, I received but one very telling reply in the form of an email from a Mod who admitted that his 'daily' activity in the august post, pardon the pun, of Moderator was made easier by creating "multiple personalities under different handles to argue with" himself and others.

This Forum is not necessarily dying, but it is rotting.

Yet every time a contributor complains, life is breathed anew into this cancerous site, on a daily basis. How can this be so? The reason is simple: people want to know as much as they can, for free. But it won't last. Cancer never does.

Gone are the days of paid-for publications. Newsletter and newspaper editors know this well. Tis their common lament. As if to rub salt in the wound, it does not follow that with the growth of PPRuNe comes a useful source of reference.

Witness to this is the falseness thrown about by uninformed contributors on a thread about Emirates' take-off accident in Melbourne. Utter lies were mixed with ill-formed rumor from questionable contributors and obvious malcontents to the EK brand, turning the thread into a laughing stock and the very opposite of a verifiable source.

Combine this with the overbearing stance of Moderators, as highlighted by the title of this very thread, and the result, for me at least, is contempt.

Contempt for ill-tutored posters, contempt for the peurile name-calling between posters, contempt for the psychotic behaviour of a Moderator who admits to holding conversation with his multiple personalities/handles, contempt for the utter lack of humor and inability to see another's perspective, contempt for political correctness masquerading as sensitivity, and contempt for the stench of rank corruption in advertising.

In short, this is a site to mock, nothing more. This is not a site for serious professional pilots to discuss the serious issues of aviation, or ot share a light-hearted laugh at themselves, trade information of where to drink a cold beer in Brussels or eat hot pig in Frankfurt.

PPRuNe is a free site where Moderators work for free. Which is the whole point. The Mod, as he or she is at times fondly referred to, may be overbearing, but he is also overworked. The fault lies in the fact that not only are they unpaid, but that this site is free.

An age old maxim quite elegantly states that, "you get what you pay for".

[PPRuNe Radar]

I wrote to Moderators of all the Forums a few months ago regarding banner advertisements on this website, a cursory investigation of which illuminated several as patently obvious Ponzi schemes.

In the words of an infamous politician of my homeland, ''You, Sir, are a bald faced liar.''

I have personally received no such missive from you.

[Senior Pilot]

I wrote to Moderators of all the Forums a few months ago regarding banner advertisements on this website, a cursory investigation of which illuminated several as patently obvious Ponzi schemes.

Really? I've neither heard of you, nor received any messages from you.

[tail wheel]

Seeing as my fellow Mods raised it, I have never received either a PM or email from 4PW's either!

4PW's, on December 10 2008, you started new threads in at least four forums, all with identical posts. All except one were deleted due to our no multiple posting rules.

PPRuNe adverts are provided by Google ads and are contextual. As you write about the subject matter you are bound to get a related advert showing up.

Your threads appear to be in respect to a web site: www.australian wealth.com - which has now been blocked by PPRuNe (hence the split URL).

A PPRuNe Moderator reported the web site to ASIC who investigated and whilst they agree the web site is very vague, they can not see any matter which contravenes Australian law, nor had they received any other complaints.

That action was instigated by the Forum Moderators and Administrators as responsible site administrators. You too could have contacted ASIC, rather than opening multiple threads in various forums and then alleging here that you contacted all PPRuNe Moderators.

Our action was not the result of your alleged PM or email which none of the Mods received!

[Bad medicine]

I wrote to Moderators of all the Forums a few months ago regarding banner advertisements on this website

Hmmmm. Neither have I received this communication.

[Senior Pilot]

Just as addition, seeing as there seems a concern about moderating here, and in general. The topic of K Rudd and his hissy fits would not be seen as an aviation topic by me, and would either be closed or moved to JB. Generally you have a very tolerant set of moderators here in D & G, whether you realise it or not.

And the concept of notifying all and sundry when a post is deleted, modified or moderated: I certainly don't have time for such things := That's nothing to do with manners, good or otherwise, but just a fact of life. Those who believe that we mods have some need to do such a thing are not being realistic.:hmm:

[YoDawg]

The thread should run. It's aussie mil aviation which isn't that well-represented in the UK-dominated mil forum. There's no shortage of other RAAF topics in the D&G forums such as the Super-Hornet thread. Why not this one?

Plus, it gives the peanut gallery a chance to see what sort of an individual they've elected to tun the country and how poorly-bred he is. In my limited corporate experience, aviation (free-rides in tax-payer funded jets) at state level seems to be something the labor pollies find so much more appealing and attractive than the libs. They just can't get enough of a good thing and were more likely than the libs to behave badly as if they were paying for the jet themselves.


Didn't he apologise at the time? Pretty sure he did.


"I said to the member of staff not to worry about it," .....If people have been offended, I apologise for it."


Krudd - What a champion of a human being.

[Old Fella]

Paulg, I concede that my comment regarding my feelings toward Mr Rudd and his party should not have been posted in this forum and I apologise for that. I note, however, that there have been many other political comments over any number of forums and these have not brought any admonishment from the Moderators. Tail Wheel, as for your support for Pole Vaulter, please enlighten me on what may have been libelous in my post.

[tail wheel]

Tail Wheel, as for your support for Pole Vaulter...

What support? :confused: :confused:

When will the dills out ther in PPRuNe land understand that PPRuNe IS NOT A DEMOCRATIC board. If you want one start your own. This has to be moderated or legal issues will arrise and those who post crap could end up being sued. Get over it and stop the political crap. Stick to AVIATION.

Specifically: "Get over it and stop the political crap. Stick to AVIATION."

I responded:
Pole Vaulter. Could not have said it better myself!

The rest of Pole Vaulter's post is also totally correct.

When will you get the simple message that the issue of the PM's hissy fit has nothing to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed" and there is not going to be a non aviation political debate in this or any other PPRuNe Forum? := :=

[Wod]

Lighten up guys.

YouTube - Ray Columbus and the Invaders " SHE'S A MOD " (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU8KUucwQJY)


Life's cool.

It is just concievable that the Mods are human!

[Old Fella]

I do "get the simple message" Tail Wheel, just wondered how come I seem to be the only one who has been admonished by you. As I said, there are many other political references spread throughout PPRuNe, although maybe not as direct as mine. I have apologised and you can now feel confident that I will leave my political comments for other forums. :)

[TurboOtter]

Since it is clear many other moderators are watching this thread I ask that they look into this problem a little more.
I to agree with most of the complaints here about the moderating that happens here. Particularly Tail wheel.

It seems he willy nilly closes threads which at times I have looked at and cannot see why? He seems to be able to justify his actions but it is obvious he enjoys the power he has been given and uses it to satisfy his own personal agenda.

This is a forum for pilots.

Pilots are people making these comments.

Let them have their say.

[TurboOtter]

Careful Wod,
That post isn't "aviation related" the big bad moderators might block you!:E:E:E:E:E

[Wod]

Whoops!!:O

[RENURPP]

There are a number of threads under "disruptive or abusive passengers".

http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/350802-passengers-insulting-cabin-crew-what-do-you-do-here-case.html

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/359395-mid-air-furore-forces-unplanned-landing.html
http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/349269-jet-drunks.html
http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/149407-air-rage-miner-fined-3000-a.html

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/95068-unruly-passenger-dumped-darwin.html

This thread is simply another one, aviation related, just happened to be the PM.
He is a disgrace,
NO, he is more of a disgrace than the other people who have carried out similar acts. Rudd is athe PM. :eek:

What example does he set for passengers who carry out similar acts.

Whoops, sorry judge, the PM said we all make mistakes. he simply said sorry publicly. 3 months after the incident so I though my behaviour was acceptable

Passenger viloence, whether verbal or physical is a real problem today!
How on earth some one could claim this isn't aviation related beats me.:confused:

If a child see's their parents/teacher any role model behaving badly the general public tends to want blood. {football players.}

Surely if the general public see the PM whillst a passenger behaving badly, berating a cabin crew member, they could believe similar behaviour is acceptable.

[RodH]

The moderator posted this :

" When will you get the simple message that the issue of the PM's hissy fit has nothing to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed" and there is not going to be a non aviation political debate in this or any other PPRuNe Forum? := := "

Seems strange when the threads below are in these Forums and the one
about US politics ran for 123 pages and is still there.
There are lots more in these Forums as well .

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/360294-us-politics-hamsterwheel.html?




http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/275324-how-will
-tony-blair-remembered.html?

A bit of consistancy might be in order I believe.
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Pole Vaulter]

RENUPP,

Are you really stating that the PMs remarks in any way is in the same class as the incidents that you quoted. You are a sad soul if you do. More likely someone who just likes to take a swipe at the PM because he is not the one of your choice. If you think that in Australia flight attendants do not take abuse from passengers that equal or in many cases exceed the case in point you are living in a world that does not exist any more. If every incident of this nature made it to PPRUNE ther would not be much of an opportunity to discuss anything else. The flight attendants of today just accept this type of traetment and move on.

[The Voice]

The flight attendants of today just accept this type of traetment and move on oh? really?

Move on yes, otherwise the rest of the pax suffer - but accept it - I don't think so!

It is neither expected nor acceptable to be abused, particularly over something as trivial as a meal.

None of this would be being discussed at all if someone somewhere didn't show someone somewhere else the presumably internal (ergo, in confidence) RAAF crew report apparently submitted after the flight ..

... AND doesn't KRudd look less than comfortable talking about the incident in the news reports being shown every other hour .. and he sounds SO sincere - NOT!

I guess in every other operation there is the opportunity for F/A's revenge - guess the same can't be said for the RAAF crews .. pity.

[4PW's]

Haven't received it, eh?

Standby for incoming...

Guess I'm just going to have to make this public, given you've called me a liar.

[airsupport]

Well I was impressed that the RAAF Officer in charge of the VIP Squadron actually put in an official report, backing the flight attendant, good on him.

Anyway hasn't the Office of the PM now admitted it was THEIR fault, they were asked several times by the RAAF whether or not there were any special meal requirements for the flight, and they said "no".

[tipsy2]

It would seem that posts #33 & #34 have come from non related DG mods. Even the attempted tenuous connection would fail the relevance test. I sincerely hope our DG mods have not gone seeking help from their forced aligned (fellow mods) in a effort to rebut the underlying tenor behind this thread.

Ignoring the longtime excuse/justification about trainsets and starting ones own bulletin board, it does seem as though there are quite a number of PPRuNers that have observed for themselves that the standards of moderating not only seem to lack consistency but sometimes even defy any logic at well.

Using cleverwords to infer a fellow PPRuNer is "a liar" as in post #33 has seen other posters banned for doing so. Anyone care to lay bets on a Moderator being banned? Of course not. That would mean there was consistency of moderating.

And before those outside D&G get their various national dress in a twist, trying to improve PPRune is in all our best interests, even us poor colonials might just have a good idea occasionally that can benefit this board and all those who 'sail' in her. Please do not simply wipe aside the ideas because you can, are tired or any of the plethora of excuses heard here before. That would simply re-inforce to PPP image.

The D&G mods might not get it right every time, but, they don't do too badly and at least we know they are fallible.

tipsy:yuk:furball:yuk::yuk:and again

[amos2]

The current mods on prune are a collective bunch of ars*holes!

We all know that! :ok::ok:

What's their collective ratings?...CPL perhaps? :ok::ok:

[4PW's]

damn straight

[Obie]

Get some balls, mate!

[Obie]

Good! :ok:

[Point0Five]

Unfortunately this is, has been, and always wil be, a left-wing, pro-union, Labor website. At least people are now being honest enough to let their true colours be shown.

For what it's worth, Kevin Rudd is a nasty piece of work who should have been detained by his AFP minders at the direciton of the aircraft captain.

[4PW's]

I sent this to the Contact Us link down bottom of every PPRuNe page. If that isn't to "all the moderators", then the mistaken context is all mine. Contact Us means PPRuNe doesn't it, or was I emailing McDonalds?

What ******** is going to write to each and every individual moderator, even if their email address' were available? As for their timely response (see below), it didn't eventuate.

I don't expect I'll get an apology from PPRuNe Radar, which kind of proves my earlier point. This site will not reach its potential. Period. Sorry to bore you with this, but he did call me a liar. Back to the thread?

PS If you want a great laugh, watch the movie Shoot Em Up with Clive Owen. Absolute classic.

PPS I hope the Flighty nails Krudd. :ok:


Flag this message To PPRuNe Friday, December 19, 2008 2:32 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified "Dave Away"

There is an advertisement on your website which purports to assist people in attaining financial independence. It is, in fact, a ponzi scheme whereby people pay USD$22,000.00 to join, then use their leverage to recruit others into the scheme for which the enticer is paid a part of the USD$22,000.00 entry fee from all newcomers. I have alerted you to this many times. I have started threads on each PPRuNe forum page I frequent. I have told my friends via private email. To this day you have not made any mention of what inquiries, if any, you have made toward investigating this fraud, nor have you removed the advert, www.go*********.com, from your website. I am definitely disappointed, particularly in light of the heinous fraud perpetrated by Bernard Madoff. Please allow me the privilege of knowing you take this seriously, and are doing something constructive about protecting your readers from preying parties. I'm not one for idle threats, prefering
action over words. To that end, I am seeking legal advice on what to do next. If your wisdom has alerted you to the fact I am incensed, you are indeed correct. I look forward to your timely response.

[Peter Fanelli]

The current mods on prune are a collective bunch of ars*holes!
I don't think that's true. IMHO there's only one on D&G that's troublesome.


Anyway hasn't the Office of the PM now admitted it was THEIR fault, they were asked several times by the RAAF whether or not there were any special meal requirements for the flight, and they said "no".


I guess they forgot the side order of ear wax.

[PPRuNe Radar]

4PW's

Haven't received it, eh?

Standby for incoming...

Guess I'm just going to have to make this public, given you've called me a liar.

Please do. It doesn't change the facts that you did not send it to all the Forum Moderators as you claim. Your claim was untrue. Black and white.

We can look at some mitigation (or excuses if you prefer) later, but if a judge asked you in a court of law if you said what you said then you would have to confirm it, and if I then proved that what you said was not true, then it's simple. You did not tell the truth in your original statement.

Indeed, I think you will find that no Moderator of any other Forum on this site received your message directly from you as you claimed.


Tipsy2

It would seem that posts #33 & #34 have come from non related DG mods. Even the attempted tenuous connection would fail the relevance test. I sincerely hope our DG mods have not gone seeking help from their forced aligned (fellow mods) in a effort to rebut the underlying tenor behind this thread.

There was no approach from the D&G Mods for solidarity or support to this thread. Nor was there any co-ordinated approach to get anyone else on board by me. 4PW's made a statement claiming (by inference) that he had sent me, as well as every other Mod on PPRuNe, a message about some issue over advertising. He did not email me personally any such thing. The inference was also made that having received this message, the PPRuNe Mods did nothing about it.

Clearly I will not take a claim that I received something (I didn't) and then did nothing about it (I don't know what he is talking about so I am hardly likely to individually or collectively do something about it am I ?) as a given, something upon which the PPRuNE readership might judge me less than favourably. If someone makes such a claim, then I have the right of reply to refute it, hence my reply. Other Mods then posted their own individual situations as well, confirming that they had not received the message allegedely sent to them either.

The relevance test was that a claim was made by a poster, aimed at all PPRuNe Mods. All PPRuNe Mods therefore have a right to correct a misleading and factually incorrect statement should they choose to do so. I did so.

Using cleverwords to infer a fellow PPRuNer is "a liar" as in post #33 has seen other posters banned for doing so. Anyone care to lay bets on a Moderator being banned? Of course not. That would mean there was consistency of moderating.

I would not make the claim on PPRuNe, especially as a Mod, if not true. Why should I be banned for pointing out that someone did not tell the truth ? Mitigation can be offered (see below), but that does not change the basic position that something was claimed, which was not true, and it was then inferred that all the Mods did nothing. PPRuNe Central utterly ignored the warning, so beware.

The D&G mods might not get it right every time, but, they don't do too badly and at least we know they are fallible.

D&G Mods sometimes don't see eye to eye with other Mods on PPRuNe, but when they don't, we debate it in the Admin Forum and come to an agreement one way or the other. This sometimes even involves dummy spits by one party or another, exactly as we see in the public Forums. The bottom line though, is that we all have the wish to make PPRUNe a success as a major part of our psyche, and sometimes accept that compromise is the way forward. So not only are all Mods fallible, they're just exactly like everyone else here on PPRuNe.

amos2

The current mods on prune are a collective bunch of ars*holes!

We all know that!

What's their collective ratings?...CPL perhaps?

As I said above, we're just like the posters on PPRuNe. We're apparently a collective bunch of ars*holes ... and we have amos2 proving that the readership has a few of them as well :ok:;)

Collective ratings .... mmmm ..... plenty of guys on the Mod team with lots of experience I think you'll find. Many are Captains with major airlines flying anything from the 747 downwards. Some are current or ex Chief Pilots. Many are highly experienced ex mil fast jet guys, or have combat experience on many types from fling wing to fixed wing. Many own or have owned a plethora of aviation companies from airlines to engineering. We also have Mods who own and fly their own aircraft. We have test pilots. We have highly qualified ground guys. In fact, apart from not having an astronaut, we pretty much cover all the bases. Including having a rock star on the team :ok:

What's your qualification Amos2 ?

4PW's

So now we come to possible mitigation.

I sent this to the Contact Us link down bottom of every PPRuNe page. If that isn't to "all the moderators", then the mistaken context is all mine. Contact Us means PPRuNe doesn't it, or was I emailing McDonalds?

The mistaken context is yours. In common with every other website in the world (except maybe for single manned or very small businesses), the Contact Us link sends a message to the owners of the Board or website. The Contact Us details are contained within the Privacy Policy link at the foot of the page, namely,

Contacting the Web Site

If you have any questions about this Privacy Policy, the practices of this site, or your dealings with this Web site, you can contact: [email protected].

This is the address where any Contact Us messages go. I don't see my email address, nor that of any other moderators, on there.

You can assume that it goes to every single person (or employee to simplify things) involved with the PPRuNe site, which is your mitigation. However, is it reasonable to do so ?? If I contacted QANTAS or CASA using their Contact Us link on their websites, would I really be expecting it to go to every single one of their employees ?? Of course I wouldn't. I would expect it to go to someone tasked with filtering messages and then passing them on to the relevant people in the company. In the case of your message sent to the Contact Us address at PPRuNe, the Board owners obviously decided that I, along with probably almost every other Mod, had nothing to do with your claim, nor were required to even know about it. So we don't, which is counter to your assertion that we did.

What ******** is going to write to each and every individual moderator, even if their email address' were available? As for their timely response (see below), it didn't eventuate.

But you claimed that you did give the information to every single Moderator. If you haven't sent me something, then how can you expect me to give you a timely response.

I don't expect I'll get an apology from PPRuNe Radar, which kind of proves my earlier point. This site will not reach its potential. Period. Sorry to bore you with this, but he did call me a liar. Back to the thread?

I guess that all depends on how pedantic you want to be.

In black and white terms, you made a claim to have contacted every Mod on PPRuNe (your words not mine) which is clearly not true (and I'll gladly stand up in court and swear on the fact that I did not receive any such message). You then further inferred that I, through association by PPRuNe, then did nothing about it. You are telling the truth there. I did nothing about it, because you didn't contact me in the first place, and I was unaware of the issue !! My reaction to your claims was to reply that you were not telling the truth, something which can be proven in any court in the land.

If we want to be less pedantic, then we can apply some shades of grey. We can see that you operated under a msiconception that an email to a contact address for the site would by default go to every single individual concerned with operating PPRuNe. The test there would then be for someone to assess whether that is a reasonable assumption to make or not. You could argue it is, or you could argue it isn't. That could go either way, depending upon the arguments and evidence provided by each side, and how the person assessing the evidence is persuaded.

To draw a line under things, you told a lie, however I will accept that you did so under a misconception. I will let individual readers decide whether or not it is a reasonable misconception to labour under. I therefore apologise for pointing out that you were, by circumstance, a liar. I would however counsel that in future you check your facts are 100% correct before making claims and casting aspersions on any group of people (and by inference, the individuals within that group). If necessary, you can do this by contacting individuals on PPRuNe for advice or clarification. All Mods have contact details within their individual Forums, and always have had.


To end, I make no comment on the moderation issues being discussed. These issues come up on various parts of the site regularly and the Mods of the individual Fora are best placed to deal with 'local' issues and nuances.

[Moniker]

you still insist and in fact call 4PW a liar ..

he is not a liar, he would be so if he knowingly made a statement that would falsely represent something to be what it isn't ..

if he was under the impression that the contact us button would do something like deliver a missive to all all mods - then he isn't lying when he states he sent something to all. He has made a mistake, and a simple one at that.

Perhaps there could be such a mechanism to prevent this from happening in the future??

I think the score is 0 - 0 .. no-one wins this one, flaming on the board is futile ..

shake hands, correspond by PM and move on .

[james michael]

What a shame, but how relevant, that this post I make is in itself the proof of the actions of D&G's own Rasputin - as it cannot be seen publicly because he has made my posts invisible.

Pprune Radar scores zero - 4PWs used the 'contact us' button and, despite the weak semantics effort by PPR to discredit that, the 'reasonable man' would conclude that the nature of the message was such that the area contacted would notify as appropriate. But a nice semantics debate is a clever diversion from the real message sent by many respondents.

It's all there on this thread - one person has become the reason why the D&G site is losing custom and has had nothing of riveting interest for months. Too many people have commented, many of them quite reasonable, for the message not to be credible.

This thread has turned into a cover up and slanging to try and cover Taily's khyber. Won't wash with those who have seen his long-term inconsistent and irrational behaviours on here. To err is human, unfortunately to think you are actually the bored god rather than the victim is egomania and paranoia.

Go for it Taily, you have snatched defeat on D&G from certain victory :D

[RodH]

Is there going to be any response from you regarding my post?
Rather than locking the thread why did you not just move it to Jet Blast?
This would seem to me to be quite OK given the examples of Political discussions/debate I have included in this post.
There are so many other examples of Political discussion in these Forums it seems to be a bit biased to lock my thread given my reasons and the belief of myself and quite a few others that it is " Aviation" related.
Do all threads have to be " Airline and RPT issues"?
Your Forum states:
"Dunnunda & Godzone (http://www.pprune.org/dunnunda-godzone-24/)
An independent family of forums covering all aspects of the Australian/NZ aviation scene."

Rod H
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Mr. Moderator
The moderator posted this :

" When will you get the simple message that the issue of the PM's hissy fit has nothing to do with "Airline and RPT issues in Australia and enZed" and there is not going to be a non aviation political debate in this or any other PPRuNe Forum? := := "

Seems strange when the threads below are in these Forums and the one
about US politics ran for 123 pages and is still there.
There are lots more in these Forums as well .

US politics - Hamsterwheel (http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/360294-us-politics-hamsterwheel.html)




http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/275324-how-will
-tony-blair-remembered.html?

A bit of consistancy might be in order I believe.
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

[tipsy2]

The RADAR response unfortunately raises and diverts too many issues and I don't have the time to address them all.

I think we have seen the "Contact Us" button is mislabelled, "Contact some of us" might be more accurate.

I would not make the claim on PPRuNe, especially as a Mod, if not true.

The same can be said for posts by non mods as well and I can see how others could find that above statement offensive.

To end, I make no comment on the moderation issues being discussed.

Terrific:ugh:, you call people liars, ignore an understandable mistake thinking "Contact Us" would infact contact us! and completely overlook and ignore that there are some on this board that are concerned enough to offer a well meaning suggestion/comment.

This thread is all about Moderation standards and consistency, not about the individual that is! a Moderator. I hope you understand the difference.

The suggestion that this thread (about KRudd and Military aviation) should be in the Military Aviation Forum is a bit of a joke, no! Or if you were really consistent, then the TAA and the DC9 thread should be shuffled off to History and Nostalgia ( fat chance any D&G relative topic would be allowed in there). Shuttleworth is allowed to advertise on there, but apparently there are no other worthwhile significant aviation collections anywhere else in the world (outside the UK there is another world) worthy of support. The perception is one of inconsistency.

Obviously I will never be asked into the secret society of Moderator, why, because I do make mistakes (and admit them) and I can never be perceived as a PPP.

Life beckons (another reason I won't be asked to be a Mod).

Tipsy:yuk:furball:yuk::yuk:more:yuk:

[PPRuNe Radar]

Moniker

if he was under the impression that the contact us button would do something like deliver a missive to all all mods - then he isn't lying when he states he sent something to all. He has made a mistake, and a simple one at that.

Perhaps there could be such a mechanism to prevent this from happening in the future??

I think the score is 0 - 0 .. no-one wins this one, flaming on the board is futile ..

shake hands, correspond by PM and move on .

I accept that. A mistake was made, which provides mitigation for what happened. PPRuNe could improve it's side of the house by beefing up the 'Contact Us' statement to explain what it means precisely ... although it would still require people to actually read it at the end of the day in the Terms and Conditions or Privacy statement. :ok: In my experience very few actually do, but it shouldn't stop us from at least providing the mechanism for people to brief themselves.

Having received the supplementary information from 4PW's, I am happy to say that I can see why he made the mistake and apologise for reacting to the incorrect information he gave at first. 0-0 is a fair result.

I would however still defend myself in future against any claim made by someone that I had been given information and not acted upon it, when there is proof that I wasn't and therefore couldn't.

tipsy2

The same can be said for posts by non mods as well and I can see how others could find that above statement offensive.

My point is that we, as Mods, should put in an extra effort to be whiter than white and set an example by not claiming untruths on the board. Mods and posters are both human, but Mods can't criticise someone else if they don't try their damndest to set the standards themselves.

Terrific, you call people liars, ignore an understandable mistake thinking "Contact Us" would infact contact us! and completely overlook and ignore that there are some on this board that are concerned enough to offer a well meaning suggestion/comment.

I am not sure you actually read what I wrote. I accepted that there was mitigation which could be argued. It would then come down to what someone perceived as reasonable as to whether that was an accepted argument or not. As stated above, I'm happy to let everyone make up their own mind, and to accept this as the reason for the unintended untruth. We're not in a court of law after all, where learned gentlemen would provide the basis for one side being established as in the right and another in the wrong. Part of that would no doubt involve defining what is meant by 'Us'. I've undertaken to approach PPRuNe to clarify this 'definition' which should improve things for all parties.

This thread is all about Moderation standards and consistency, not about the individual that is! a Moderator. I hope you understand the difference.

This thread was not about moderation in general, but specifically about D&G moderation issues. I'm not in a position to judge the pros and cons of the actions taken, because I am not close to the issue, nor do I have intimate knowledge of the style and strategies employed by the D&G Mods when carrying out their tasks. I hope you too understand the difference, since although we could continue the discussion to site wide principles, that's not really relevant to the original posters query, unless they wish to cast the net wider.

Obviously I will never be asked into the secret society of Moderator, why, because I do make mistakes (and admit them) and I (hope) I can never be perceived as a PPP.

Dry your eyes ... :{ the pay is awful anyway :}

Life beckons (another reason I won't be asked to be a Mod).

You'd be surprised the wide range of activities and fun things Mods get up to with their real lifes. :8

[tail wheel]

This thread is all about Moderation standards and consistency, not about the individual that is! a Moderator. I hope you understand the difference.

No Tipsy. This thread is about a users right to hold an unrelated political discussion on a professional pilot's bulletin board.

It was purely coincidental the Prime Minister's rude hissy fit occurred in an aircraft, and a military aircraft at that - the locked thread is all about the Prime Minister's parlous and inexcusable manners, not about aviation.

The same scenario could have (and from what I hear, probably has) occurred in Parliament House, a restaurant or anywhere else.

I would not have permitted a thread regarding the Della Bosca's Iguana affair (Police interview MPs over Iguana affair), why permit a similar thread when the Prime Minister's actions and the circumstances are virtually no different?

I wonder if he will direct he too undertake anger management therapy? :=

Over the years, a number of threads in Dunnunda have been moved to other forums, including the Aviation History & Nostalgia Forum. Whilst I agree it is very subjective, some nostalgia threads tend to be very Aussie-centric - the 727, DC9 and PNG threads for example - and have been permitted to run, usually in D&G GA and Questions.

Regarding 4PW's complaint about a Google ad on PPRuNe, on December 11, 2008, an Internet Brands administrator posting in our Admin Forum:

Anyone have any idea what this person is talking about? Which advertisement?

This was a result of 4PW's posting identical posts in a number of forums and led to me contacting ASIC for clarification; the results of that contact are in one of my earlier posts.

Should PPRuNe users wish to contact the relevant Moderator(s) I suggest they use only the Report This Post Icon for that purpose.

[Much Ado]

Hi Guys...we all having fun in here or what:ok::E

Wonder what would happen if I locked this thread:}

OS I agree that would suck. But has that been proved or alleged?

[tail wheel]

May be time....... :}

See what we get up to when you aren't around? :} :}

Not sure what information Owen Stanley may have, however ASIC called me on December 24, 2008 (from the Admin Forum): "They have no record of other complaints however agree the web site appears very vague. They have added the web site to their internal database and will investigate further if further complaints are received."

PPRuNe met any duty of care responsibility it may have. Perhaps Owen Stanley and 4PW's should now provide their additional information direct to ASIC-FIDO (http://www.fido.gov.au/fido/fido.nsf/byHeadline/Scams%20-%20reporting)?

[Looseliver]

Yeah i cant see why the thread about Mr Sheen was locked...


You got your characters mixed up. Rudd = Tintin. Howard = Mr Sheen.

Rudd also = Pompous Twerp (but that's for another thread...)

[Moniker]

lock it .. although it is fun 'moderating' (mediating) from the outside .. :E

perhaps I've missed my true calling :8

[RodH]

Gee!!!! The mods don't like being challenged do they?
Ah Well.
I guess they regard this issue as though It's a bit like a headache , after a while it will go away .
It may well with their help but the real cause always lurks around waiting to surface again in the future.
Lifes too short and comes to an end without much warning to worry too much about this anyway.
I think quite few people will have had a good chance to digest some of the points raised so all is not lost.
Rod H
:{:{:{:{

[Flintstone]

I knew there was a reason I stopped reading Dunnunda, the whinging Ozmates. Whenever I come back in here it reminds me just how many of them (not all) fail to grasp the realities of life.

The original topic was at most tenuously related to aviation.

This site is not a democracy.

We that post on PPRuNe don't have to deal with the rivers of absolute rubbish that some members put here just to see their names in print or air their own views.

If any of us wish to post without moderation (and face the legal consequences) it's never been easier to set up our own site.

Some people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

[4PW's]

I hope this is read as it's written, in peace.

I was called a liar, but I'm over it.

PPRuNe Radar has spent a lot of time laying his side out. It's a fair view, so thanks for taking the time (mate).

By the way, I unreservedly apologise for infering all Moderators are tarred with the brush of 'you get what you pay for'. Unreservedly suggests there is nothing further to say. Allow me to expand, not on the apology but on what I meant.

This site should be a paid for site. Only then will we get the CONTENT we need as professional pilots. Gasp, shock, horror. Keep it real though. This is just my perspective.

On the issue of Contact Us as a link to PPRuNE as against McDonalds, I wrote to and received a reply from Danny using that very button. True, it was some time ago, maybe in a more peaceful time. I was Hung Like A Horse at the time, and very much enjoyed this site.

When wanting to write to PPRuNe, I did so again. There was no reply, so I wrote several times more. In the end, I screwed up. The mails did not go to Danny (who I suspect is now counting his millions somewhere else) or to any Moderator. I did not lie, deliberately or by default.

Tail Wheel, mate, I did not, categorically, write to PPRuNe via Contact Us in regards to the website you're talking about. The website in question began with the two letters G and O, ended with N and G.

Whatever. I'm sorry I've wasted everyone's bloody time. Now, where are those kids of mine? I've got three, and they're on holidays...and the fish are, apparently, biting.

No pun intended. I love to fish.

Stay safe.:ok:

[tail wheel]

"The website in question began with the two letters G and O, ended with N and G."

:confused: :confused:

We assumed you were referring to the web site I mentioned earlier. Your December post did not mention the web site you referred to. Google ads probably has thousands and thousands of adverts. The adverts are "contextural" - you will see an advert related to what you post.

The "Contact Us" email goes to Internet Brands who now own this site. Originally, I suspect any "Contact Us" emails would have gone to Danny or the Admin team but that would have changed when Internet Brands too over. I think they have over sixty similar sites so loss of your email may be understandable if it was not very specific.

Danny counting his millions ..... he wishes.... :E

And a free tip? I got a very nice three pound Mangrove Jack just off the Coomera Marina a few months ago. :ok: It was the best catch we had in a weekend of only three or four fish! :{

But a few coldies with mates made up for the disappointing fishing! :}

[the wizard of auz]

Hi Guys...we all having fun in here or what
Heeeeell yes. :E
Wonder what would happen if I locked this thread
Some one would probably start another one and complain about this one being locked. ;)
I knew there was a reason I stopped reading Dunnunda, the whinging Ozmates. Whenever I come back in here it reminds me just how many of them (not all) fail to grasp the realities of life.
well, stop coming in here then. you wanna listen to the whinging POHMs over here that have the same trouble you mention.
We that post on PPRuNe don't have to deal with the rivers of absolute rubbish that some members put here just to see their names in print or air their own views.
Is that you just airing your own views, or is it that you like seeing your name in print?. :}
Get a life old mate.
Pretty funny thread.......... lets see how long it will last. :E

[j3pipercub]

RodH,

Australia is a democracy, Pprune isn't.

j3

[RodH]

It is a shame that " Tailwheel" does not seem to want to reply to my post # 62.
The part titled " US Politics-Hamsterwheel "really does cover the issue of non-aviation related political debates .
It would have been nice to find out just why he locked the thread based on his statement " there is not going to be a non aviation political debate in this or any other PPRuNe Forum? := := ". when the above mentioned thread is still running in Jet Blast and is full of politics that are most certainly non aviation related.
I suppose he is too busy fishing to reply.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[tipsy2]

Flintstone regurgitates the old "set up your own site" fallacy. Boring and very very old hat!

Perhaps Flintstone could continue to avoid our D&G as he sees us as whinging ozmates.

Now is that calling the kettle black or what?

I no longer bother with the pratty UK centric forums for exactly that same reason and engrained attitudes. Hence the PPP's

Discussion of the standards and standardisation of Moderation has been avoided thus far in this thread, one hopes that those Moderators that actually care rather than appear will encourage discussion in the Admin Forum.

I do hope so.

Perhaps Flinstone has some other moot point to make about trainsets or something equally banal.

[ampclamp]

lol, touche'.

Moderation is a thankless task.I was asked to be one a long time ago on a non aviation site.Not being one gives me more freedom to
"make mistakes":cool:
Mods are human,they make mistakes over react change standards etc. Big deal.
Its an anon forum provided for free. I say dont be too sensitive about being moderated please.:{
It aint a perfect world .
I'd like to thank them all for their time and effort in running this excellent site.
How lucky we are to have a worldwide means of discussion at our fingertips for zip.:ok: