ATC History

[chevvron]

I started my ATC career on D Watch at West Drayton on March 1969. Of the various 'character' ATCOs I can remember, here is a selection:
Len Lavell: don't talk religion to him or he'll try to convert you to Jehovah's Witness
John Reynolds: watch your back; if you do something he doesn't like he'll just report you to the supervisor without saying a word to you.
Len Vass: well what can I say; just one of the nicest guys you could wish to work with. He was selected to give us ATCAs pep talks prior to our ATCO Cadet Interviews. His hobby was building (from scratch) models of railway locomotives. No motors, but they were perfect in every detail down to the correct number of links in the chain couplings. Years later, I worked with his son (he was on the Ops staff at our FBO), and when Len sadly died, he took over the sale of his father's collection of models. What price they realised I don't know, but someone somewhere has them now and should be proud of them.

[Loki]

HD

Was it Spud who got things slightly mixed up in the hold, when a Trident pilot said something like "London, there`s another aircraft at my level"?

To which the reply came "It`s not your level, it`s mine, I`m busy, and you are sharing it"

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I agree about Len Vass. Whilst I was home on leave from Africa I contacted Len to see if I could visit LATCC. He duly fixed it and I sat in on TMA(S), where he was the Crew Chief, for an evening. I corresponded a lot with Len whilst I was overseas. A thoroughly nice person - an amusing to be with too!!

When I left school in 1961 I became a Clerical Assistant at MoA HQ in Woburn Place where there were plenty of ATCOs. George Endersby and Charlie Fearn were in an office opposite mine. Lucky Craven was downstairs. Used to play snooker with John Griffiths and there were many, many more. All great characters and all, sadly, long gone. My first Watch Sup at Heathrow was Geoff Large who is, I believe, still alive and well... as is JK!

[PeltonLevel]

the sometimes socially challenged engineersThanks for the vote of confidence chaps!
It may have been 35 years ago,but ...

[Moldiold2]

Along with Pelton I too was a 'socially disadvantaged engineer' in SADO but I never let it show to my much richer ATC colleagues!!
Ref Spud (aka Trevor Murphy) the tales about him could keep this forum going for years. My most vivid memory was acting as driver and baggage carrier at a trade day Farnborough (when NATS used to get an allocation of tickets) Spud made a bee line for the Air Macchi hospitality tent with me lugging his MK1 video camera and batteries. He walks straight in only to be greeted by all and sundrie as a long lost friend. This included their chief test pilot with whom Spud engaged in a long conversation in fluent Italian. We then visited the trade displays where he accosted the ex- JFC (A.F.) by smacking on the back and calling him several names you dont hear on Blue Peter. AF duly responded in kind and offered drinks on Plessey at the end of the show. Returning to the Air Macchi tent we imbibed in the free lunch and much wine whereupon Spud fell asleep at the table and missed the whole afternoons display and we missed out on sundowners with AF.

[Lon More]

Spud's biscuit tin
http://www.justingames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tin.jpg
I had one, quite a few scratches on it it made 100 quid at auction; mint it would have been 400. The brand name on the jam pot would have raised a few eyebrows as well

I remember John S. - Richard Partridge was another name from round then. He came to Euricontrol then left to drive an old ambulance to India. He's now back in the UK, married a few years ago. John Kimberley, Maggie Ireland and PLJ Hooper were a few others who crossed the channel.

Chevvron, I must have left just before you joined (I went to Sopley as an ATCA 2). Terry Thomas was the ATCA 1 at the time.

I also spent a few months on NMU at Gatwick, a great place to earn money with all the overtime, John Dancer was there at the time, as was Daphne Donkin. I think being sent down there was a result of threatening to punch John Renolds' lights out. Southend were phoning details on a dep via IBY ( 11 handwritten strips IIRC with only the first and last having all the details. At the same time, they were requesting clearance from the DO (Reynolds). As fast as I could write the strips I put them over but Reynolds suddenly decided that all the strips should have all the details and threw one back, hitting me just above the eye. Trying to pull him across the top of the board was not a good idea, :=. Fortunately a lot of people had witnessed the incident and he was forced to apologize. A week later I was in Gatwick for several months..
A couple of years later, in Luxembourg, there were a few more names, Bob Cheyne and Brian Greenhalgh and later in Brussels, Gerry Wigglesworth, Roy Evans, Geoff Gillete and Brian Easy who should have spoken perfect French by the time we moved to Maastricht because every time he was asked to do radar he had to go for a French lesson.

[chevvron]

Indeed Lon, Terry Thomas was in charge of us lowly ATCA 3's when I joined. He got a class to class and was the principal trainer for FISO's in preparation for them doing the FIR.
One of my early stints on the FIR was with Ian MacIntosh. We were filmed for a training film in which I had to hand him a slip of paper from which he read out the Hurn weather. The back of my head (with hair in those days) was clearly visible in the finished product.
Anyone remember an assistant called Arthur (don't remember his surname); was always incident prone; 'tache similar to Spud Murphys

[Minesthechevy]

OK, since enough of you have told the truth about Jolly Jack to ensure that his lawyers are kept busy elsewhere, I'll throw my hat in the ring.

I was a junior member of the ATC Tech Committee at LATCC in mid-late 73 (the title might have been summat a bit more complicated, because by that time the world and his poodle had a committee for something or other.....) it was chaired by TC, and Jack R was there as well.

99% of teh discussions did not need ATCA input, so I got to snooze a lot. One of the topics had universal approval, except Jack, and I remember TC losing his temper ( ie he raised an eyebrow) and said 'well it looks like 5 watches wwant to play ATC and Jack Reynolds doesn't'. Cue for one humble Assistant to try and be invisible whilst smirking....

Geoff Gillette - when he went to YooroControl eight of us rented his house in Preston. No, it wasn't an 8-bedroomed place, so it got cozy at times. There were 6 white stones outside the house, each with a letter, which gave the house name, 'LLADOS'. We assumed it was a welsh word until one day (or night, it IS possible that alcohol was involved) one of us realised it read SOD ALL backwards, and promptly rearranged it thus.

We had a 'Preston reunion' last October and went by to look at teh house. Remarkably, it is structurally intact still..... although the traces of the police cordon can be seen.....

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<aka Trevor Murphy>>

Trevor St John Murphy purleeese....

Turning to other characters.. wonder what happened to Jack Frith, who used to contribute to PPRuNe? Last i heard he was living in France, with various other ATC refugees. He moved from Heathrow to LATCC and worked the TMA. I recall one conversation I had with him when there was a Trident to follow a Shed, or some other awful thing, on a CLN departure. When asked what separation he wanted he responded "Frighten me on 125.8"!

[Lon More]

After completing our initial training in Instilux, as it was in 1970, 3 of us were sent to the UK for initial traing; myself and Mick Lewis went to redbrae and Tony Gleadell went to Preston.
As usual, I proceeded to FU big time (supervisor's daughter:eek:, although I didn't know it until she introduced me to Daddy) and soon ended up back in Brussels, appropriately living in a room near the Manekin Pis!. About this time I was called into HQ for a (one sided) dixcussion on the subject of my future career. So, faced with the prospect of actually having to work for a living, I decided to keep my head below the parapet for a couple of years. ( I think Jim Creegan started to get it in the neck from then on;))

BTW. Not only was Reynolds a miserable :mad:, he was also a tight-fisted one. I remember he used to come to work on a NSU moped and most of us tried to run him off the road as he weaved away along Porters Way :E

[chevvron]

JR tight fisted? Don't believe it, but then he never used the LATCC canteen. always bringing his own sandwiches and flask. The other 'D' men made sure he always did 'DO' on night shifts (in Mediatior stage 1/2) and Sector 20/23 in Stage 1 , so they didn't need to talk to him unless they had to (or maybe that was just to stop him doing radar which was done from Sopley up to about '74). A couple of years later, before we heard he'd been admitted to Frimley Park after a heart attack, I read an article in some magazine by him, telling how he'd moved into a house which had a telephone installed, but he didn't want a telephone and had a devil of a job getting BT to remove it, eventually cutting the wires and leaving it on his doorstep and telling them to collect it (must've phoned them from work)

[sabredog]

Most of the posts here are from John's detractors and critics, may I be permitted to comment on another aspect of John Reynolds?
Cantakerous and obstinate,John may well have been, as were others of that time, but just remember that John had gained his pilot's wings with the R.A.F in WW2 ,and had flown on operations with Bomber Command. Something that many of his detractors did not do.This alone, should earn John some respect. Each year, on November11,John used to make a pilgrimage to the R.A.F.Memorial at Runnymede to lay a wreath in rememberance of a close friend, missing on operations and with no known grave. That was the other side of John Reynolds. I write this, not to defend John's obvious faults, but merely to add a little balance to this thread.
Sabredog

[Lon More]

Sabredog. I didn't know that about JR, however it was a past he undoubtedly shared with most of his generation. Very few of them ever talked about it . It was fascinating to listen in on some of the discussions during the quieter parts of night duties.

[chevvron]

Arthur Bramhall was the ATCA 2 whose name I was trying to remember. He too had some fascinating recollections of WW2, in fact most of the D men on my watch did eg Des O'Connel (badly burnt face but I never found out how he did it).

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

One of the senior controllers at Heathrow struck up conversation one day with a German lady on the admin staff. For some reason he asked what she did in the war - "I was in the Hitler Youth; what did you do?" "I flew Lancasters". I was told they never spoke again!!!

[Minesthechevy]

Des O'Connell - ISTR that he flew Spitfires. I also STR that he had been a member of 'The Hamsters' - not the rather amazing rock group from Essex, but the plastic-surgery pioneer volunteers....

However, it was a long time ago, and my memory isn't what it used to....used to.... er....so if anyone can verify either of these facts, I'd be grateful.

[Talkdownman]

Des O'Connell - ISTR that he flew Spitfires. I also STR that he had been a member of 'The Hamsters' - not the rather amazing rock group from Essex, but the plastic-surgery pioneer volunteers....

However, it was a long time ago, and my memory isn't what it used to....used to.... er....so if anyone can verify either of these facts, I'd be grateful.
Er...MTC, it was Guinea Pigs... :rolleyes: ...The Guinea Pig Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_Pig_Club). Des was a Guinea Pig......

I'm glad I don't have to write your ASRs any more.... ;)

[sabredog]

Des was an Observer/Navigator on Fairey Battles during the Battle of France, he then served on Whitley Bombers with 502 (Ulster)Sqdn.Whilst operating out of R.A.F. Limavady, Northern Island, his aircraft crashed into the Sperrin mountains. All survived, but Des received severe burns, thus becoming one of Archibald McIndoe's "Guinea Pigs".
Still very hail and hearty, I am glad to report.

[Loki]

Ah yes, the wartime veterans.....most of us old gits will have had the pleasure of knowing some amazing characters.

Heathrow was full of interesting people when I was there as an ATCA...as was everywhere else I went on my cadetship.

Names like Paddy Haycock (EGLL), John Clark (EGPF) Peter Ward Hunt (EGVW).....there was an EFCA there called George, who had spent the war with the Norwegian whaling fleet in the South Atlantic....he taught me to swear in Norwegian I remember and nearly got me killed once when I was doing a runway inspection (bless him)

[Minesthechevy]

I'm happy to be corrected on both counts.....

TDM, I always knew when you'd written my ASR - there was a total absence of joined-up writing, or even english.....:}


2 minutes after I posted that, I realised where the confusion lay...

'The Hamsters' were the first group of UK heart transplant patients; they were given steroids, which caused them to have 'hamster cheeks'.

My SWMBO tells me the Guinea Pigs wre recently on a documentary, but she can't remember the details....

[Brian 48nav]

' just 2 on the frequency he said', the first approaching CLN cruising at 210 and the other, Aeroflot in his VC10ski cleared to 290 just E of the Park. 'What did they ask you on the board?' says the Chief, Alan Fletcher, who was the watch Trg Officer. Chat chat chat,5 mins later,still all quiet - I look back at the radar and Aeroflot was just about to gobble up the slow Cessna (or similar, who I now noticed was doing only 190kts), at the same level. I just got away with it by the skin of my teeth! Boy did I learn a lot from that!
Years later in 94 we were just checking in to a quaint old hotel in Paphos village and the owner on noticing my occupation said 'do you know Mr Murphy?', he rang him up and 10 mins later Spud appeared and we had a beer.
Stewart(?)McIvor was on my watch,or should I say I was on his? He never used to address u/ts directly ie to the mentor 'tell him his board is next week'.After my TMA N board for some reason I started to wear a suit to work (yes really!) and in McIvor's eyes I could do no wrong. It was all over when I grew a beard.Years later when I was at LL I stopped off in Staines after a M duty to do some shopping, and bumped into Stu (long since retired) and he said 'you still need a bloody haircut!'.
My favourite old-timer of all time was the wonderful Norman Whitelock - what a star. We once had a C Watch cricket match between ATCAs and ATCOs at which Norman umpired - everyone had to take a turn at bowling and as I ran up to bowl my second ball all I could see was his shoulders going up and down as he wet himself at my bowling action.
There were some wonderful characters at LATCC in the 70s; Reg Prior, Woo, Dick Yeo, Pat Carroll, Gerry Davies(who was always winding McIvor up), Jock Moffat etc.

[Brian 48nav]

What happened there? My post should start - On my first day valid on radar at LATCC I took over on CLN E from Spud ...

Brian Wildey

[Brian 48nav]

Me again! Bit late on this one I know, but was I the first to wear shorts to work at LL? Having started in Nov86 it was probably the following summer, and as I commuted from way west it was too hot to wear proper trousers on the drive up one day and on arrival I thought sod-it! I'm not in the military any more I'll wear what I like!. I did get a strange look from Derek Harriss along the lines of ex-navigators aren't what they used to be. Norrie Wales was almost apoplectic with rage!
I could never understand why some of the guys wore jackets and ties M-F and jeans and t shirt on the weekend. Who were they trying to impress? KCW,Doggett,Bush,Budgen etc? Gosh I bet I have nightmares tonight!

Brian W

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Norman Whitelock was my first Watch Supervisor at Heathrow. He was equallyat home doing Watch Sup or any ATCO or ATCA operational position - might be doing No.2 DIR one minute and next he'd be strip bashing in the tower to give some ATCA an EG.

When time came for my Approach Board the French and Spanish were on strike and there was very little traffic. Norman was an examiner too so he sent everyone away and it was just him on North APC and me on #1 DIR for an hour. That was my practical board!!

Brian.... I had no idea you came to LL from LATCC; I thought you came straight from Boscombe!! We could have exchanged a few stories about Spud.

Take care... Bren

[Brian 48nav]

Bren, no I wasn't one of the 'Heathrow 10'.RAF 65-73,Herc Nav after training - (that's why IMC always hated me,I think he must have failed at Biggin or was it Hornchurch) - direct entry CAA Nov73,2 months at TK (we discussed Phil F and Mike East before - John Hamilton was there then too),BB for Twr validation,then Area - LATCC 74-80. App Proc Jun 80 then PO,App Radar Jan 83 then Boscombe. Then came the 84 Shift Pay Agreement followed by post/station grading (quite right too!) for pay, so at age 40 with an eye on my pension off to LL Nov 86.Brief flirtation with CCF Oct93 but straight back to the TWR..

We did move to France to celebrate my 60th in 2006,but this homesick man dragged his long-suffering wife back to Blighty in Feb to rented here in Mere - moving to near Ross on Wye next week.

Cheers Brian Wildey

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK Brian. Envy you going to Ross.. Have a look at Hay-on-Wye. There's a book shop with 10 million miles of shelves!!

[Lon More]

Brian 48nav are you any relation to Phil Wildey at IANS?

There were also a few at Scottish, Bunny Crane(?) who had flown Mosquitos and Jock Ellis who walked away from a Typhoon he'd landed in a sand dune in the middle of a dust storm

[Talkdownman]

Bunny Crane. L Crane. Good old boy. Never did know his Christian name. Did a touchwire evaluation on Apollo with him at EGPX in '67. His pipe filling fingertip didn't work on the wires until they gave him a Post Office finger-moistening sponge....

Hello BTW. Get your haircut, Mate. Have you and AW settled down anywhere yet....?

[Jay Doubleyou]

I not only remember metal strip holders, but the delight when we found that the first rubber ( yes there was an era of rubber between metal and plastic!) holders made great windscreen deicers!
Metal strip holders were general when I joined as a cadet in 1963, but were gone from LATCC (the old Centre, Radar and procedural, North Side Heathrow,) when I got there in 1966

[Brian 48nav]

No, I checked that out when were at LATCC at the same time - he pronunces Wild--e,but for some reason my dad told us we were Wil - dees!

Hello Talkdown Man,my wife won't let me (cut my hair), I think it's the only thing she loves about me. At 64 still mainly brown and no bald patches (amazing for someone who is a born worrier!) not like my follicularly challenged 41 yr old son, mind you his testosterone has always been high!

I'm frantically reading all your posts to identify you - an ATCO wot does low level radar, flying instruction and knows my initials - must be the guy who started LL the same day as me,also ex-LATCC and R&D. MH?

Cheers BTW

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Good Lord, Brian, what a memory you have. Talkdownman is MH - no less than Mildred Hucklegruber III. Nice chap!

[chevvron]

He's hairy too (in more ways than one)

[Lon More]

Metal stripholders; heated up on the A side over a lighter then chucked over the top - "Hot one for you"

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hahaha... Out in HLLT, to while away the night hours, we used to chuck metal strip holders at the mice trying to drink our Carnation milk. Sadly they'd gone by the time I started over here. Biggest strip holder I ever saw was wooden, about 6 ft long.... but most of you will have seen that!

[chevvron]

Metal FPS holders still existed in '74 when I started at Farnborough. One of the controllers used to come in, grab a handfull of them and thow them at one of the assistants with the shout 'these are finished Joe, catch'.(normally when Joe either had a fag in his hand or was just lighting one!!)

[Loki]

The sport at the tower where I once worked was to lob a plastic strip holder into the disc of the ceiling fan (naturally when it was going at full throttle). One learned to duck extremely quickly....the results were entirely random too.

[161R]

Ah! Ceiling Fans.

Lobbing Tunnock's Snowballs was less dangerous but just as amusing, but far funnier was watching the first time the fan was switched on after a winter of inactivity to discover that "someone" had covered the upper surfaces with a generous coating of Talcum Powder or Bombay Mix.

Sadly, do that today and say goodbye to your career.

[elandel]

elf and safety mate!

[Loki]

Occasionally we used to do something similar with the fans in Flight Clearance/AIS at EGLL, only using the sugar cubes appropriated from the BEA canteen (in their wrappers).

On one occasion there was a BEA Trident captain present, studying the temporary nav warning board, when one of these missiles hurtled across the room.....making a gratifying whirring noise....its trajectory taking it across said pilot`s shoulder and removing the briefing notes from his grasp. when he looked round, everyone in the room was working away in a most diligent and earnest fashion.

I wish I could remember who the culprit was....

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Why do ATC people get up to the most lunatic things? (Thinks: Wonder how many cars got beetroot on them... but that's another story).

[Loki]

HD

My very first day at EGLL (June 1970) Yours truly walked across from the bus stop, to the Control Tower Building, across a carpet of paper aeroplanes....I was bemused, to say the least until their origin was explained.

[Minesthechevy]

I remember that there used to be a Check imposed by Air Deps on SVFR (possibly when on 09s?). 'Check is on/check is off' would be the norm.


AC used to ask who the Navigator was on the Enterprise......

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Back in the days before SSR in the tower the directors would ring the tower with the landing order. Often the AIR man would ask the No.2 for a space for crossing traffic. Colin Ward (very sadly no longer with us) would warn in something like : "Air France 971, Bealine Echo Mike, Clipper 100, Gold Alpha Papa, Iberia 424". When the AIR man asked where the gap was, Colin would say: "Between Clipper 100 and Iberia 424".. I can still hear his unique laughter now.....

[Minesthechevy]

Remember when UK registrations contained 3 letters and 3 numbers? Well, I don't, much too young, obviously :O:O:O:O

The last two letters gave the district in which the car had been registered

Well Colin had memorised the two letters of every issuing district - I once asked him why, and he just grinned and shrugged.

[ex-EGLL]

Thats as bad as AC!!, met him a few years back for the first time in 20 years and was greeted with words to the effect, Hi Barry, that escort of yours was registered NUD392T. Now I can understand me remembering it, but AC :confused:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I believe that was at our house! He still has instant recall of all the TV ads and programmes he saw as a kid, Barry. Nothing changes!!

[MPN11]

OK, that's enough civvy flight-strip stuff :=

Real Men, with Real radar, and with chinagraph on the screen!! :eek:

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/Scan1.jpg

And, of course, in the true spirit of Jointery ...

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/Scan.jpg

[arearadar]

Hi Loki,

I remember we used the Three Maggies after work at SATCC (on the North Side) prior to LATCC. After the move to West Drayton we used, firstly the King William IV at Langley, and later the Crown at Harmondsworth.

At Gatwick, prior to both of the aforementioned, we used the Six Bells at Horley.

Cheers!

Dave :ok:

[arearadar]

Ah!!! Arnold Field. There`s a name from the past.

We knew him as Flower Power after his penchant for wearing a flower in his buttonhole.

Dave :)

[Spitoon]

The Six Bells is still an enjoyable haunt (especially near the log fire on a cold day) - but more notorious for the ex-chef's extra-curricular activities.....

[Talkdownman]

I remember we used the Three Maggies after work at SATCC (on the North Side) prior to LATCC. After the move to West Drayton we used, firstly the King William IV at Langley, and later the Crown at Harmondsworth.
I did all those. But don't you mean the King Willy at Sipson?

MPN11, some familiar Sopley faces, powers of recall not working very well. '66? Do I see Rod Wilde and Duncan MacPherson in that pic?

[arearadar]

Hi hyperborean,

I can confirm that Border Radar had Type 84 and Type 85. Well at least it did when I was there in 1969/70.

Dave :)

[arearadar]

Hello Director,
Also heard it said `Bushman`s Peak, Kilburn, Epsom, Dunsford !!

Dave

[arearadar]

Hi talkdownman,

As Sipson and Langley are only separated by the A4 I `m sure we are talking about the same place.

Dave :)

[MPN11]

MPN11, some familiar Sopley faces, powers of recall not working very well. '66? Do I see Rod Wilde and Duncan MacPherson in that pic?

Both names ring a bell ... a faint civvy one of course. :)
Don't forget Frank Rittmeyer, later DD/LATCC or whatever the terminology was then!

Ah!!! Arnold Field. There`s a name from the past.

I'm sure I have a personally signed and inscribed copy of his book on Air Traffic somewhere :cool:

[MPN11]

I can confirm that Border Radar had Type 84 and Type 85. Well at least it did when I was there in 1669/70.

Certainly did ... even though your dates suggest you wrote "flight parchments" with a quill pen!! ;)

[arearadar]

Hello talkdownman,

I remember my checkout on the radar boards at SATCC back in 1966.

It was part of the test to continue operating whilst your eyes were streaming from the smoke from the wastebins (WPB`s).

Happy days !!!?

Dave

[shack]

Oh! happy days and then the Cadets arrived, whats worse I married one of them!!!!!!!!!! The early 60s at the airport, mini skirts everywhere and our Watch Super. discovered in the void under the VCR looking up through the cracks at the nether regions of the assistants. Norman Whitelock doing my PAR validation and what does he pick for me, an Aeroflot TU 104 followed by a Spantax 990, always did have a sense of humour. I used to take my dog in on night duties and he would lay at my feet which was fine until one night when it was a case of monitoring each approach with PAR and each time he moved he would lean on the pedals and the aerial would go to full deflection. Then LATCC and the delights of Fag Ash Lil and the two cleaners. Yes Bren I am still around but don't look at the ATC threads very much 'cos I do not understand them now. If xpz67 is around I think if I said to you radio controlled submarine you may know who I am. Jack

[arearadar]

Hi MPN11,

Sure did use those implements, along with strange, hard, bakelite, one eared conch shells through which we communicated with the flying machines.

Dave :)

[MPN11]

Great - a proper controller! :D

I'll upload some nostalgia tomorrow. UHF on the headset, VHF on the HMT ... :eek:

[Brian 48nav]

Did it last? Marriage to one of the cadets - obviously a girl. I think her name began with T.
When I was on C Watch (74-80) we used to spin with you on mornings. I can remember during the ATCA strike in '77 doing CLN wings,solo of course, struggling to keep up with all the hand written strips you the CSC kept passing to me, for aircraft that were calling out of the blue having circumvented the inbound flow restrictions. What a laugh!
I guess from your moniker you were on the Shackleton - with your good looks and charm you had obviously been a Nav.
Where do you live in France? We recently returned from living in Gers.
All the best, Brian Wildey

[ex-EGLL]

I can confirm that Border Radar had Type 84 and Type 85. Well at least it did when I was there in 1669/70.

They were both there in 74. the Aeroflot coming down the North Sea would always ask us to tell him when he was in radar contact (data collection ??)

One fine day the aeroflot was southbound, but still outside radar, when the military switched from the 84 to the 85. Not 10 seconds later the aeroflot pops up on radar and at the same time calls on the freq to confirm he was now in radar contact as we had switched to the 85. Bl**dy cheek!

[MPN11]

@ ex-EGLL ... for similar reasons [one suspects] all the Sov flights out of Singapore used to do a very wide turn from the 20 departure at Changi [unlike everyone else] heading for the Jahore Baru beacon to ensure they overflew RAF Tengah. We used to turn on the undercarriage check-lights so they knew we had noticed. ;)

There was always a great temptation to arrange a Lightning F6 'vertical departure' at the same time, but common sense prevailed.

[bottom rung]

Here's a couple from Midland Radar in the mid-eighties. I can't remember if I have posted them on PPrune before, so forgive me if you have already seen them:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w127/shetlandnick/scan0008.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w127/shetlandnick/scan0009.jpg

[MPN11]

Nice photos ... but how big was the 'overhead' that day? :cool:

@ airpolice ... sorry, never did NRD. Nearly 8 years at ERD, as I was sent back to the premier ATCRU as 'management' :cool:
I could do you an RAF Strubby in 65, or Tengah in 67-70. ;)

MPN11 - ERD and Bar
(PMG)

[MPN11]

newbie! ;)

However, I hope you made a good career choice.

[Talkdownman]

Great pics from North Luffenham. Familiar kit! I was at Northern Radar in '70.
Am therefore interested in any pictures from Lindholme.....

Regarding SATCC, Whit also used to take his dog in. It chewed thro' his headset lead mid-transmission.

Regarding miniskirts I only wear mine indoors on a Friday night...with the fluffy mules...

Mildred Hucklegruber III

(This topic should be in the Aviation History and Nostalgia)
(Nostalgia ain't what it used to be....)

[MPN11]

(Nostalgia ain't what it used to be....)

Indeed .. those of us who worked with valves and raw radar and chinagraph [i still have my full set of pencils] should stick together! :cool:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I recall another "doggie" story. Bev brought one in for a night duty and it sat in Approach quietly. Unfortunately, the animal had a cry of nature which was duly found by Geoff Large's shoe as he walked out of the north door.... (Was that your bow-wow Jack?)

[MPN11]

OMG ... pets in the Tower [is this a deviation?].

1. EGXW ... exercise called for V-Force, and you can't arrange kennels at that sort of notice. "OK, bring the dogs and keep them in the Crew Room/Coffee Bar." The Tower was dog city for a few days, but they were VERY well behaved.

2. EGXW ... again on exercise, Cpl Lorna brought her gerbil to work. The expression on the TACEVAL man's face when we used her gerbil to do the CBW 'sniff test' was perfect! I don't think Lorna ever forgave me for that!! :)

[shack]

You are right with the initial but it finished 8 years ago. You are also right about the good looks and charm but as I excelled I was a member of the two wing Master Race and would, occasionally allow a one of my Navs to carry my headset. The very thought of Malc in a mini skirt reminds me why I left the UK over 20 years ago for the delights of Périgueux. No Bren it was not my dog that disgraced himself, but he took great delight in peeing on the Tree of Lebanon at the back of the Tower.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I think that tree has gone, sadly, as has the Alcock & Brown Memorial..

Must ask Carter whose dog it was.... he remembers its name!

[Talkdownman]

Was told last week by DGN (ex 'D') that the '55 tower is about to be demolished. Anybody else know anything about that? It will be sacrilege...

[Minesthechevy]

I took two Dobermans (not Dobermen, they were both girls, so that makes them Doberwomen I guess) in during my time; although they were about 10 years apart.

IMC was dozing in a chair in the tellyroom, and I got my Dobe to go and sniff him on the ear - he nearly levitated...

Still got the dog, being in such close proximity to IMC didn't do any permanent damage.:rolleyes:

If anyone sees IMC say hello to him from me...

[arearadar]

Hi EX EGLL,

Going the other way I remember the Aeroflots used to leave at 3.E (became UA37 I believe).
They worked us (Border) and near the FIR boudary we put the to Copenhagen.

After passing the boundary they would call at twenty mile intervals saying that they could not contact Copenhagen and did we still have radar contact. Of course....the answer was negative !!

We always checked with Copenhagen and of course they had them in contact.

Dave :suspect:

[arearadar]

Hi airpolice,

Hope you are still working hard to pay my pension.

If so I am really grateful.

Dave :)

[ex-EGLL]

After passing the boundary they would call at twenty mile intervals saying that they could not contact Copenhagen and did we still have radar contact. Of course....the answer was negative !!

With the occaisional (random) false positives thrown in for confusion!

[Brian 48nav]

Nice one Jack! Having the shame (for an ex-nav) of a son who is a member of the 2-winged master race,formerly of the single seat variety (the worst!),I've learnt to smile gracefully at their wit!

I checked my '50yrs of Heathrow ATC' book to check your dates there and it got me thinking that for ex-military pilots the early 60s must have been a lean time for those who wanted to get civvie pilot jobs. People like Bunny Austin,Chas Griffin,John Smeath,Tony Bielby,Fido at Brum',John Davis all ex jet pilots who ended up in ATC.

Incidentally did you know Abe Lincoln on the Shack? A Kiwi pilot that at least 3 of us at LATCC had flown with;Frank Leeming on Sunderlands,Bob Trott on Shackletons and myself on the Herc.

BW

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Good Lord; I had no idea I had mixed with such an elite group! However, my Cycling Proficiency Certificate doesn't count for nothing you know!

Bunny is still alive and well and I exchange emails with him occasionally. Wasn't Terry Quantrill a flying type - Javelins, later on Penny-farthing bike? I know the last bit is true because I rode it (the bike, not the Javelin) round the 6th floor Approach Room and couldn't get off!

[Mr_Grubby]

Howling Dogs.

An assistant at Gails Radar in '77 - 78 ( Martin Coop ? ) had a black mongrel thing that he would sometimes bring into work. It was well behaved and just lay sleeping most of the time by your feet. However sometimes it would wake up and start howling loudly for no apparent reason.

A BEA Trident inbound to Glasgow one morning complained about interference on the frq. He said it sounded just like a dog howling. A mystery to me I said but would get Tels to look into it. A swift boot up its backside usually sorted the problem.

Clint.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

When I worked abroad, one early morning after a night shift the Watch Sup was doing the Area bit whilst using his electric shaver to tidy up before going home. A foreign aircraft commented that there was a strange noise on the frequency. My boss, trying hard not to laugh, asked the pilot if he could describe the sound... "Eet sounds like zee shaving electrical" (or words to that effect). We all collapsed screaming..

Never had a dog in the tower out there (thank God - they all had rabies) but a Chameleon climbing up the venetian blind strings was a sight not many UK towers could boast!

[Jay Doubleyou]

A handful of names released the flow of a lot of memories! I was on "C" watch from mid 1966, as a Cadet, 'till February 1968,as ATCO4. Stewart McIvor was Deputy Supervisor, the Supervisor was a quiet chap called Bill Blott.

Jack Moffat was deputy to the deputy and often in charge during night duties, I think it was him who forgot to call a certain "long sleeper" (me!) in the early West Drayton days, I emerged about 8am wondering why the place was so bright, and who all the strangers in the ops-room were! ("B" watch?).

Alan Fletcher was the "D" controller when I (as a radar trainee) had an Airmiss near Compton between a German Airforce Noratlas and a BEA Viscount, he remained remarkably calm!

Pat Carroll had dual nationality and had done his (French) National Service flying JU52s into, among other places Dien Bien Fu (!). His command of vernacular French came to the assistance of many an "A" man trying to pass a load of estimates against the "French resistance"!

Dick Yeo was an unflappable, calm, gentleman who, I'm glad to say is still with us, in his 90s, and living in Falmouth, we still correspond.

[RADAC]

Is it true that Trever H fired a Colt 45 in LATCC Ops room to prove to the disbelievers of the night Watch that it was a working replica? Probably in the early 70's.... and trust it was with blanks.

[Liobian]

Re post 297 Sopley gate - can anyone put names to the civvie faces ?
I can place only Dave Walker.
(Did my area bit there with Pete Worrall - good guy)

[Spitoon]

Dave Walker...who later looked after cadets? Don't recognise him in the photo. If it is the same, does anyone know how/where he is today? I seem to recall he retired to the wilds of Scotland - but that was many years ago.

[MPN11]

No 74 JATCAR ... Left right, as far as my memory will go these days: even the official Course Photo isn't annotated. Civ underlined, Mil first names only.

Front row ... John, Bernie, Frank Rittmeyer, Rick Wade, John, Mil, Mil, RN, Civ, Civ, Civ, Civ, Fighter Controller.

Top row ... Piers, Tim.

Sorry, it was a long time ago [Spring 1970] ;)

[Edit ... please feel free to quote, with updates!]

[Talkdownman]

Front row ... John, Bernie, Frank Rittmeyer, Rick Wade, John, Mil, Mil, RN, Civ, Civ, Civ, Civ, Fighter Controller

Front row ... John, Bernie, Frank Rittmeyer, Rick Wade, John, Mil, Mil, RN, Civ, Rod Wilde, Civ, Civ, Fighter Controller.

[MPN11]

Now were getting somewhere!

Front row ... John, Bernie, Frank Rittmeyer, Rick Wade, John, Mil, Mil, RN, Civ, Rod Wilde, Civ, Civ, Fighter Controller.

Tim and I spent hours cutting out a stylised "74" out of black sticky-stuff. There wasn't a pub lavvy seat in the area left without one of those under the lid ;) And I did hear, later, that our defacement of the Sopley Ops Site signboard remained un-noticed for months!!

[Lon More]

From Sopley about that time, the "Fly Navy" sticker with the words reversed and an extremely long zip inserted in the middle as a sign of the FAA's superiority in the bedroom.

I wonder if it's a record but at least three pupils from Luton Grammar School ended up in ATC - Martyn Cooper, Brian Chumleigh (sp? and not sure if the surname, was an ATCA 2 at LATCC the last time I saw him) and me

added; there was a fourth,; on here as "Old Controller" I think and was at Manston?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Loved about the zip Lon More. In the Approach Room at Heathrow, on the peg board where frequencies, etc, were displayed someone hung up a picture of a Slovakian person playing a penny whistle. Using the plug-in letters under it was written "Recorder Czech".

[chevvron]

Dunno about a record for schools, but 4 from my original ATC Squadron (2204 Chesham) joined NATCS/NATS; Honey Monster, myself, one Heathrow ATSA and one other controller who does Thames/SVFR. Apart from the Heathrow/SVFR controller we all served at Farnborough for various periods. Subsequently from my next squadron (1811 Marlow - I was CO) one cadet joined the RAF as a controller, served the minimum time then joined NATS!

[arearadar]

Very funny. Was very often distracted from playing clag by that (in earlier days). Read you five.

Dave

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Dave... when were you at H'row? Our list, produced for "The Book" says "1972?" Also notes you retired in "1996?"

I started there in 1972 so we may have worked together briefly... trouble is my brain is shot.

Bren

[shack]

Sad news for all us old ex-Heathrow. Flo Kingdon died last week at the grand age of 84 and her funeral is tomorrow. For the younger members who did not know her have a look at the clip AIRPORT PLAYGROUND - British Pathe that Bren posted on Aviation History and Nostalgia 21st October. I know somebody who is going to speak at the funeral and have asked him to pass on all our thoughts. Jack

[arearadar]

Hello Director,

I never was at EGLL. I joined in 1965 at EGCC, then to EGKK then SATCC. Moved to West Drayton on the day of opening. No 15 Cadet course took me to EGBB, EGCC, EGKK and Border.
Finished at LATCC, retiring in 1997.

Dave :ok:

PS. Two good friends of mine that you probably know from EGLL are Ron Daly and Joe Hanbury.

[xpz67]

Hello old man.

I got rid of the Sub. a few years ago but it spent several years over the entrance to me garage.

How are you both?

JP.

[xpz67]

Hello there.

The name "Pundit" was chosen as it meant Guiding Light in some other language.

JP.

[xpz67]

I've just remembered, it was hindi. There has got to be a brain cell working up there.

JP.

[ZOOKER]

xpz,
many thanks indeed for that.
The Heathrow pundit, (LH), was quite impressive, on the south side near the Air India hangar, (I think).
EGNX had a smaller one, west of the TWR. Coded 'CA'.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Zooker, yep - due south of the intersection of 05R and 33L. It even had it's own road - Beacon Road - and was a favourite question on ADC boards. S'pose it's in bits somewhere.

[Talkdownman]

The two-letter green Pundit at my base still flashes away.....especially when I forget to turn it off. The pilots can turn it on after I have gone home by ringing a phone number and entering a code...(so I could blame them...)

[arearadar]

Now there`s a name I`ve not heard for a long time.

Happy days at SATCC 1967.

Dave ;)

[xpz67]

Hi TDM.

Is your Pundit of wartime vintage? If so can I have a picture of it please?

Thanks.

JP. (xpz67)

[Talkdownman]

Nah. It's home-made and has fairly recently been re-furbished.
You can have a picture of it if really desperate. It's on the top of a hangar...

[IFPS man]

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab111/chateaugaillard/Pprunephotos/img039resized.jpg

39 Course, CATC Jan 1980


New entrants started in 1979; us Ex ATCA's joined in January 1980

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wow... pop a few names on there as I'm sure I recognise some of them.

[IFPS man]

OK, here goes, with apology's for mis-spelt names and thirty years of memory loss!!
So, L - R:
At the back: Smoker,Slann, Cropper,Coffey(?), Balfour,Smythe,Gothard,-,-

Middle:-,-,Todd,Carter,-,Robinson,Tucker, Brain, Lamont,-,Kelly,-,-,Seal

Front: Keeble, Wilson,Osbourne,-,Wintle,McClean,Stevens,Simmonds, Gray, Toal, Creegan, Hamilton

Andy IFPS man

[Brian 48nav]

Blimey Bren I only recognise the lovely Steph; I miss her cuddles in the Tower,so do Ron Daly and Bob Hillyer!

I think sat next to her was Gary Gray,and the guy 2nd in on the front row could have been on LATCC C Watch as an ATCA.

Any other LL people there?

BW

[IFPS man]

Hi, Brian:
Quite right, second in, front row, is me, Andy WILSON. Finished Cadetship, but failed to Validate after Mediator, so reverted to ATCA. Left the reality (?) of LATCC in '93 to join Eurocontrol as a Supervisor in the IFPS at Bretigny (near Paris), France. Finally, medically retired in January of this year following a massive, critical/life-threatening stroke at work in 2008... Now "enjoying" early retirement!!
A.t.b.
Andy

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Standing, 4th in from right looks like that ugly monster Denis Wilson, but the dates don't tie up. Surely he doesn't have a twin??

[Data Dad]

I thought that looked like Denis as well but he was on my course (49) in 1982....

middle row, 5th from left next to P Robinson and in front of P Cropper is I think Dave Park.

DD

[IFPS man]

Yes, I thought it was Dave, but wasn't 100% sure. Tks
AW

[Minesthechevy]

<< Surely he doesn't have a twin?? >>

Bren I thought the same thing when I saw the photo. The thought of Den having a twin makes me reach for a stick to poke my minds eye out with. Our paths didn't cross often at LATCC, but I liked him a lot, though.... a very dry sense of humour

[Brian 48nav]

My humble apologies; I recognised you but for the life of me could not remember your name. What also threw me was that, apart from Alan Grove ,I couldn't remember any other assistant getting the thumbs up from Margo Trickett enough to get even a look at a cadet interview. I recall that was the reason Dennis went to the Tower, or was it to play football with better players than myself and Mike Walton?

I escaped LATCC in May 80 by volunteering to go to Stornoway; that gave me an App Proc course and I picked up App Radar before going to Boscombe.then to LL in 86.

I think we could have been at the college at the same time cos' I can remember seeing Steph Simmonds there.

Regards, Brian Wildey

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Mick... Yes, Den was a great bloke. He was a GS on the watch I used to spin with and he often chucked me out early.... probably couldn't stand working with me!!

[IFPS man]

How time flies! I can still remember the times when you, as an FIR Controller, and me as an Assistant, worked together, with you letting me "have a go" on the FIR... Ah, what times!!
Although Steph (Simmonds) was on an Aerodrome Course, we all returned to the College at the same times during the training; dates would have been as follows:
Tech. Course for everybody on the Course, Jan - Mar 1980, thence to final Unit.
Flying (For the Area people) at Lydd, Summer 1980
Area/Aerodrome Procedural Autumn 1980;
then, Area/Aerodrome Radar Autumn 1981..

Hope others from this "era" latch on to the Board!!
ttfn

Andy W

[MPN11]

Not in the least bit critical ... but do any Mil ATCOs engage here?
Apart from Doleman, of course!

[MONT BLANC]

Some of the blanks perhaps, if memory serves me well

Back row - far end: Steve Hazeldine (went to Sumburgh?)
Middle row, far left - Joe McBrinn - went flying with Paramount and still flying in the left hand seat for a UK carrier?

Middle row: Immediately to the right of Nige Seal - Alastair Campbell who went too Glasgow. I am reminded of Alastair's sense of humour when the pilot (Chris Orlebar Concorde first officer) came to talk about aircraft performance on the tech course - a representative aircraft obviously. Alastair had blagged letters so that his name plat thingy said 'BCAL are Great'.

MB

PS Andy it is probably a crime to post this photograph Don't suppose there is a picture of the reunion last year to make a comparison?

[IFPS man]

Now, wish I had gone to the Reunion... How about a Grand get-Together....
Have seen the PM. Will reply......
AW

[Lon More]

Thought I recognised Jim Creegan in there. Must have been his week with the family suit.

Mick Lewis should also be in there somewhere I think

[MONT BLANC]

Lon More,

yes it is Jim Creegan in the front row. He did his tech and I think procedural course with us on 39, before moving on for the Area Radar

I remember Mick Lewis at LATCC - C watch, but he wasn't on 39 Course.

Last saw Jim at Manch last summer in the simulator, before the move up to PC.
But spoke to him frequently when working opposite him on Sector 5 at Swanwick (Brecon in old money). The same as ever and always good for a laugh.

MB

[FantomZorbin]

MPN11
Yup! Perhaps there should be another branch reunion ... or maybe there isn't another portrait to 'burn':E

[Heading 365]

Spent two days reading this from the start to find I get a mention today!! Thats blown my cover ;) Loads of memories came back as I read the posts.

Brian, I'm sure there were those that got cadetships before me under Margo's reign but we were the first course after one of the recruiment blockades that management seemed to go through every few years. 34 Course started in November '76 after nearly two or was it three years of no cadetships and we were the first course to split after the Tech course at the college and do either approach or area.

I have a course mug shot and will try to post it although I might get beaten up by the few members of the course that still inhabit Swanwick, although a lot have retired in the last year or two.

Andy, still see Messers Gray and Seal when they wander out of the TC ops room looking lost, I'll pass on your regards to them.

MPN11 I'm pretty sure the chap standing five from the right is Graeme Hayden an assistant/system specialist who retired from Swanwick earlier this year.


Alan

[Loki]

Had lunch today with Graham Bissett....hadn`t seen him since his retirement in 2000. Much the same as ever.

[chevvron]

Youngsters the lot of you. I got promoted from ATCA to ATCO Cadet for No 23 Course in Sep '71. About 50% of us were ex- ATCA's. There were originally 23 of us (I think). After our 4 week 'initial' course prior to flying training (6 weeks at either White Waltham or Cambridge) one resigned, and 16 of us eventually graduated after the three years training in Sep '74. At least one resigned then, and one (the much liked Mike Baggaley) has since died. Anyone else left? (apart from Mal Ross who I last heard of on his way to Oz).

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

T.. Not the Malcy Ross ex-EGLL, ex-EGCC?

[Brian 48nav]

Was Al Barnes on the course? I heard he had retired and gone up north.
BW

[chevvron]

Mal Ross ex LL and CC; I believe he's on holiday in Oz; strange co-incidence 'cos so is Bob Trott!
Al Barnes was on 23 Course; I last saw him when he was at TC (WD)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yes, Al has retired. I lost touch with Malc, other than an email a couple of years back. He was on B Watch at Heathrow. Great bloke.

[Brian 48nav]

Yes Malc was, is!!, a great bloke - he had to be, putting up with me as a u/t! Talking of B Watch any word on Jake and Ron Boulter? I remember Ron came to my watch at LATCC, just after John Smeath, and it was obvious there was no way he intended to validate - so he got his way and back to LL he went. I recall it was impossible to talk to him when plugged in, cos he would tap his headset and say " I've got noises in my ears!"

[MPN11]

@ Chevvron .. Youngsters the lot of you. I got promoted from ATCA to ATCO Cadet for No 23 Course in Sep '71. About 50% of us were ex- ATCA's.

Oh dear, Sprog.
My ATCA Course was in 64, then to Southern Centre at LHR.
Went RAF ATCO in 65 ... ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Brian... No news on JK or Ronnie Radar except I've no reason to doubt that they're still around. "Ronie radar" is a "name" he objected to even though it originated through his own fault. He was doing GMC one day with it right round his neck and he stood up and said "My forte is radar"!

One day in the old 6th floor APC Room, Tels said they wanted to do something to the No.2 Director console. The only person who wasn't told was Ron, who had a penchant for leaning on his elbows with his chair pushed right back and his head almost touching the screen. Tels duly arrived and slowly pulled the radar display out.... Ron duly edged forward.... Eventually, a couple of people grabbed him before he disappeared into the gaping hole like a certain 1-11 skipper.

JK... I could talk all night, but won't!

[arearadar]

Hi Loki,

Please give my regards to Graham (Bisset) if you see him soon.

Dave Humphreys LATCC A Watch.:ok:

[Minesthechevy]

JK. Go, on, Bren, let the floodgates open.

To a towing aircraft 'Roger, call again when you hear a different voice on this frequency'.

When I went to LL in 84, I heard a story concerning two large blokes with ill-fitting suits who had come to reception looking for 'Da Supervisor'.

Seems someone's presence was required at a card table, and Da Supervisor thought he had prior call on this person for purposes of controlling aeroplanes at night. Mssrs Burton and Next were there to show Da Supervisor he was wrong......

[Honey Monster]

arearadar

I have been trying to find our course photograph (15 cadet course). I can find a photograph of me being presented with my licence, but nothing else. Am i right in thinking that it was only given to us in whatever the current company news publication was called at that time?

I was given medical retirement from the Colllege in 2004 when I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. Fingers crossed, I'm still clear but they still have a look in my bladder twice a year.

Spud Murphy was mentioned earlier in this topic. I worked with him in SADO at West Drayton. One day he forgot to bring his glasses to work. He spent the day wearing a pair which we made from computer punch cards. The lenses were card with a pinhole in each. He swore that they worked perfectly!

Reg Ford

[chevvron]

As far as I recall, the company newsletter was started in about '72 (I can vaguely remember seeing them when I was doing my tower endorsement at Glasgow that year). We had course photos at beginning and graduation, plus small group photos when we started the PPL course.

[arearadar]

Hi Reg,

Bet Ron Daly has a photograph.

Dave Humphreys :)

[Lon More]

Vaguely remembered from a LATCC Christmas Party (?) around 1967, the Outbound Calypso.

"Hey ho, man alive
Open up de throttles and climb to five."

Ring any other bells?

[Jay Doubleyou]

I posted comment, a while back, about some of the people on "C" watch, LATCC, that I remembered from the 1966/68 period.
I only heard this morning that one of the stalwarts, Dick Yeo, died on the 9th of December, just short of 90 years old. Funeral in Falmouth on Monday, 20th.
Farewell to a real gent.

[arearadar]

Ah 1971 ! That was the year I finished my cadetship on N0: 15 course. 20 out of 22 of us were ex ATCAs.

Regards

Dave:)

[Lon More]

Maastricht UAC 1972

aA-Cn8OxF04?fs=1&amp;hl=nl_NL&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aA-Cn8OxF04?fs=1&amp;hl=nl_NL&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


I was sent to the canteen before they started filming

[ZOOKER]

Lon,
superb.
The days when ATC provided a "Safe, Orderly, and Expeditious" Service.
Commercial pressure, unheard of.
Direct routings? - No Chance.......because......
I AM SMOKING A FAG :E

[Talkdownman]

Is that Geoff Wilson on Flight Plan Extraction?

[Lon More]

Is that Geoff Wilson on Flight Plan Extraction?

Yes; and just after that, the bearded assistant distributing the strips is John Kimberly, Maggie Ireland's partner at the time.

The film must have been made just after the Centre opened

[windowjob]

I'm back from Oz!
It was my retirement present to myself but I had to postpone it for a year due to a bit of a ticker problem. Could at least have had it on company time not a month after I retired.
Does anyone remember the Australian ATCO that we recruited to LL, but didn't last very long?
He was from some outback airfield and the first jet he saw brought him over!

I'll post the 23 cadet course photo's (complete with names) for amusement shortly.
I'd nearly forgotten that BW was one of my trainees - poor sod!
I saw Ronnie Radar a few years ago - his brother was living in a caravan not far from here in Cheshire and we met for a beer. He hadn't changed a bit and my hand has just about recovered from his greeting.

[Minesthechevy]

For the life of me I can't remember his name - but we called him Skippy.

For the record, 'didn't last very long' might give folk the wrong idea - he left voluntarily due to wanderlust.

Famous for 2 things - giving John Travolta a takeoff clearance to go like 'Greased Lightning' - and inducing long-term sick leave in one of the most unsuitable 'managers' I've ever had the displeasure to have dealings with.

[Brian 48nav]

Hi Malc,yes you were a great mentor,especially if you had your 'beans' on time on a morning duty!
I was lucky with the other 2 as well,Geoff and Dave Mck!

Is 'Chevrron' TC, I wonder?

How are those other B Watch escapees at Manchester?

Cheers BW

[chevvron]

Learn to spell 'chevvron' correctly and I'll tell you.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hahaha... love it T!

[chevvron]

And if I tell him, I'll have to shoot him.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And you would be most adept!

[windowjob]

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt197/Dadstoy/ATC/th_graduates0001.jpg?t=1296483251

There you go,
23 Cadet course graduation Sept 1974
Does anyone want the starting line up and names?

Not sure why it's come out so small

[Lon More]

Not sure why it's come out so small that's what your wife said :E

[windowjob]

OK here's the starting line up then



http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt197/Dadstoy/ATC/startinglineup.jpg

[Northerner]

Can a newbie join in?
I'd love to know names... Got no idea if I'm about to be insulting but wondered I'd the guy 3rd from the right on back row was Phil Layton?
I've been loving reading all this and 'hearing' you reminiscing...

Glad that I've been lucky enough to know and work with some of you.
Cheers,
Northerner

[chevvron]

Taken when I had hair!
I can remember all the names except two; the guy right hand front who resigned at the end of the Initial Course, and the one sitting between Al Barnes and Kenny Alexander who got 'chopped' during ADC training.
Pity the graduation photo is so small, you'd see Jim Ward covering his 'parts' as I'd just told him his flies were undone.
Nigel Smith contributes to these forms, last I heard he was at Bristol. When I first arrived at Farnborough, the first time I spoke to Fairoaks a familiar voice answered - Colin Scarse!
Back row third from right is not Phil Layton, I think he was on about 21 or 22 Course.

[Loki]

Looks a bit like Ian McKinnon (can`t remember his course number)

[chevvron]

Yes it is Ian (Tiny) McKinnon.
Ron Paris isn't shown as he didn't arrive until day 2; I think he'd been on leave and hence didn't get the message he'd been selected as a late replacement. Can't remember why he was a late replacement, did someone fail their medical?

[Minesthechevy]

Front row 5th in - Mike Baxter
Back Row, 4th in - Graham Hayward.

[chevvron]

Ah yes, Mke Baxter.
Graham Hayward was 'chopped' at Glasgow. He married our very attractive Glasgow landlady and they moved back south. Imagine my surprise when I bumped into them in a supermarket in Farnborough about 4 years later! He reverted to ATCA at West Drayton and they lived in Cove.

[windowjob]

OK Folks here they are:-
Back row L-R
John Woodside, Roy Gregory, Nigel Smith, Nigel Wilshaw, Tony Mason,
Malcolm Ross, Jim Ward, Graham Hayward, Ian McKinnon, Colin Scarse,
Pete Weller.

Front Row L-R
Mike Baggaley, Dave Gallop, Gordon Bain, Kenny Alexander, Mick Baxter,
Alan Barnes, Terry Clark, Dave Brindle, Bob Gosling, Steve Clark, John Gardiner.

I'll re-post the final picture at a better size.

Oh and I also have a picture of 1/2 of an assistants course in 1971 but will need help with a lot of the names. The course was so big it had to be held in the Income Tax building in Bournemouth and we had to have 2 photo's as they couldn't get us all in in one!

[chevvron]

Add Ron Paris and you get 23 ATCO cadets on 23 Cadet Course; one resigned and 16 eventually graduated after 3 years training in ALL civil ATC disciplines.
How does that compare with modern StATCO courses which are far shorter and usually train only one or two disciplines.

[Jay Doubleyou]

I think the person, front row, furthest right, is John Gardner from Jersey.

[Brian 48nav]

John Gardiner was on my 'class to class' aerodrome course in Nov 73 but I have a nagging feeling that maybe he had started a cadet course and for some reason did not continue. There were 2 other Jersey guys; Mike Blompied and the lovely Pauline!

Chevvron (got it right this time!) - don't forget the PAR rating we did at Shawbury with Martin Trickett winter of 83/4!

The advantage of doing the rating courses the way I did (aerodrome 73/4,area/area radar '74,apc '80 and apr radar '83 ) was that you got to know lots more people. Disadvantage was knuckling down when you were older and taking 'crap' at Hurn when you had a few years experience.

[chevvron]

Yes I remember our PAR course. Talk about a 'crash' course what was it, about 3.5 days?
Trickett got enamoured with that female RAF instructor; one of the RAF guys got into a drinking session with us and we were all OK next day but he had a raging hangover.
Re John Gardiner. We did a 4 week Initial Course basically to prepare us for the PPL Course which came next. We were all stunned on the last day when Mike (teeth 'n trousers) Hunt came in and read us John's letter of resignation. His wife was staying with him on the mainland and we wondered if that was the problem.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Martin Trickett is in NZ now I believe. He had an interesting trick when handing over a position - he'd pull your headset plug out and quickly tie it to the handle on the CCTV display, very, very tightly! Thankfully he only did it on dual positions with two controllers!!

[Brian 48nav]

HD yes you are right about NZ. I remember the first time I saw Tricky,day one at Boscombe Steve Palmer and I were being shown the Approach Room,a phone rang at a consol(e?), the controller answers 'Lay it on me Brize', we nearly wet ourselves.
This was followed a few minutes later by the arrival of a tennis player wearing a Walkman who proceeded to sit in front of the PAR position saying something like 'I'm free'. Thus our first sighting of the late Bobby Cowell.
A few weeks later our intrepid duo were sharing the Approach One function,as believe it or not it was quite busy,when they both had Maydays.Marty had a FRADU Hunter with an engine failure on climb-out and Bobby a Lightning returning from a supersonic run low on fuel.The banter between them was priceless. Much to Tricky's embarrassment he was awarded a Good Show and had his picture in the RAF flight safety mag' Air Clues!

[jabberwok]

Yes; and just after that, the bearded assistant distributing the strips is John Kimberly, Maggie Ireland's partner at the time.

That takes me back. John and I were at Watton in 1971 and he left to go to Brussels. I, a few months later, ended up on that 23 Course photo.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Great stuff, Brian. They were both insane. I remember going back into Approach after a break to hear Bobby screaming "It's me, quickly - I'm doubly incontinent!" Don't make 'em like that nowadays...

[windowjob]

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt197/Dadstoy/ATC/graduates0001-1.jpg



Well at last, here's the graduation photo from 23 Cadet course 1974
Back Row L-R
Bob Gosling, Ian McKinnon, Steve Clarke, Malcolm Ross, Ron Paris, Dave Brindle, Pete Weller.

Front Row L-R
Jim Ward, Gordon Bain, Mike Baggeley, Kenny Alexander, Nigel Wilshaw,
Tony Mason, Terry Clarke, Dave Gallop, Alan Barnes

As Chrevon noted, Jim Ward is trying to cover a "wardrobe malfunction" with his zip :uhoh: and Malcolm Ross had to stand at the back to disguise a hand in plaster due to a football match on the Terminal course! We never did things by half..

[Brian 48nav]

At least the 'sweaties' weren't wearing skirts!

[chevvron]

Chrevon now is it? Plus I seem to have acquired an extra letter on my surname!
Mal Ross' goalkeeping abilities were second to none until his 'accident' such that the RAF Sopley football team borrowed him. Course it was during a match between 23 Course and RAF Sopley, and their excuse was their goalie wasn't getting any practice so could we swop!
Mike Baggaley is sadly no longer with us; Nigel Wilshaw resigned and went to Ronaldsway but I met another ATCO called Nigel Wilshaw a few years back working at Leeds.
Jabberwok/windowjob, any ideas where the others are?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Malcy Ross was on B Watch at Heathrow, a bigger bunch of lunatics you'd be pushed to meet!

I never met Bob Gosling but he looks like Barry Winch's twin...?

Great pity about Mike B - a really nice bloke taken in his prime. I also worked with Gordon Bain and Al Barnes, but I'm slowly getting over it!!!:D

[Vercingetorix]

Bob Gosling
He. who used to tell his girl friends that his 'Frog eye' Sprite was an E Type Jaguar on the basis that they wouldn't know the difference!
A good man.

Cheers

:ok:

[chevvron]

What you can't see on the graduation photo is Roger Carter and Brian Toomer, 2 college instructors lurking behind us, who tried to get in on our photo.

[windowjob]

Ian Mckinnon retired from LATCC, Bob Gosling LATCC (retired?), Dave Brindle retired from MACC, Kenny Alexander ATC Investigations SCATCC (from MACC closure) Malcolm Ross retired from CC, Pete Weller PB (still?), Tony Mason, Ron Paris, Steve Clarke all Scotland somewhere last known, Nigel Wilshaw NS (at least a couple of years ago), Gordon Bain was at KK but doing a lot of photography, Dave Gallop last known in the canteen at LATCC (retired?) Al Barnes was at LL but believe he went to TC, Terry Clark retired from UF , Jim Ward went to H&I but not heard of his whereabouts for some time, Mike Baggely sadly no longer with us.:{

[Brian 48nav]

Al Barnes and I did a liaison visit to Scatcc c'92 travelling up by train. Just after departing Euston,settled down with the newspaper,I heard this muttering from my right.I thought Al was meditating or something,but it kept on so I put the paper down,looked at Al and he appeared to be talking into a dictaphone. 'What you doing?' says I,a bit reluctant to disturb some sort of religious trance, 'Taking numbers' He says,'It's easier than trying to write them down 'cos I might miss some - I'll listen to the playback when I get home'. The penny dropped - He was a trainspotter! You could have knocked me down with a feather!
BW

[10W]

Ron Paris retired from Oceanic a few years back, Steve Clark took the same route last year.

[windowjob]

"He was a trainspotter" Well at least he's improving himself - he used to be a plane spotter when he started as an ATSA! We were on the same assistants course.
He also used to fly the plane for the army parachute lot at Netheravon and I used to jump (he did as well later) at WOG and one day I visited Netheravon when Al was flying the Porter. Up at altitude and I was getting to the door when Al turns round says "All Right Mal" and whacks full right wing down - well it wasn't the exit I'd planned and I swear I could hear him laughing as I went. I just hope he heard me swearing at him as I tumbled upside down.

[elandel]

Al Barnes retired from TC last year and went to live 'up north'

[Bigears]

Kenny Alexander unfortunately didn't make the move to PC from MACC, and has left NATS. I believe that he'll be found motorbiking on the Isle of Man.

[chevvron]

Terry Clark actually retired from LF, the UF having been dropped in about '95 when UM (Manston)and SV (RAE Bedford) were also dropped.
So apart from poor old Mike, plus Jim Ward and Pete Weller, it looks like we've all thrown in the towel as far as being ATCOs is concerned.
I know one of us is now a FISO, any others?

[Data Dad]

Pete Weller retired from Aberdeen a couple of years ago, still see him about occasionally.

[xpz67]

Now listen here you lot.

It is worth remembering that the most successful cadet course ever was No 28.

We lost just a single person during the whole cadetship and me and my wife were the only married couple to have completed one.

So, stick that in your pipe and worship us.

Actually, we where challenged by 26 course to a game of football in Bouremouth and they were really pissed off when they realised that in the first half we had 13 players on the field.

During the second half after they had discovered how we had cheated I was the only one to score a goal which was unfortunately in my own goal.

This did not stop me being covered with hugs and kisses from our team.

Bridget didn't speak to me for the next day.

Also, the LATCC B Watch hockey team took on the Barclays bank team, what a big mistake that was.

They came with all the correct gear whilst we turned up in our everyday stuff.

They best moment of the game (which we lost) was when Maurice Minchin headed a sure fire goal from them using his head without a safety helmet.

I always thought that effected his mental decisions after.

Happy days.

John Platt.

[Brian 48nav]

John, I'm sure that when we were on the Area course late '74 I taught you to say 'my wife and I'!

At 27 and then 28th birthday during the course I felt so much older than you 28 scallywags! Mind you it was even worse in '83 when I did the APC Radar course with all the layabouts on 45 course.

Brian Wildey

[ex-EGLL]

I never met Bob Gosling but he looks like Barry Winch's twin...?

Just checked in the mirror, nothing like me..... his hair is too short!

ex-egll

[Lon More]

John and I were at Watton in 1971 and he left to go to Brussels

He and Maggie went to Canada im the mid 1970s. I heard they split up and Naggie was back in the UK.

Heard yesterday that ne of Eurocontrol AI 1 died in Ireland last week,; Tony Weymes who left ATC and was a Professor of Languades

[xpz67]

Hi Brian.

Yes I did remember what you told me but I stopped doing it a long time ago.

We are now seperated.

What are you doing now?

I an now heavily involved in the music industry. Promoting, publishing, touring, hosting festivals and being a complete idiot.

I can get you into festivals free or you can listen to me on Radio Caroline under the name "John Patrick" where I play heavy rock. I am also the keyboard player in two bands.

Praying Mantis and Lost weekend, however both don't have a keyboard player and I can't play a keyboard but I do get into big gigs with them.

More happy days.

JP.

[Minesthechevy]

xpz67 -

You may know me, I'm an ex-LL L/Op now living in the se of France.

In view of your current occupations, can I ask you to send me a PM ( I can't send one to you, so it tells me) to establish contact .

I may have a contact that would prove beneficial to you both.

MD

[Brian 48nav]

I got early retirement from LL in 2000 'cos of ankylosing spondylitis & fibromyalgia. I had left DM in 86 before you and BP went there.

I remember seeing you at DM when LL C Watch did a LV in March 1990. If I recall after CAA lost DM contract you went into an office somewhere & then a medical EG?

Had a few years living in France but came back last year and now in Herefordshire.

Had a good day last month at LATCC C Watch 'Old Coggers' reunion organised by JB. My first main mentors there, Geoff Wright on wings & Gerry Broad radar - both looked well considering ( me as a U/T that is), great to see lots of faces I hadn't seen for years!

All the best, Brian Wildey

[Brian 48nav]

Currently reading an ATCO's memoir and got to a piece where he mentions female cadets. Got me thinking. Who was the first one?
I know Chrissie at LATCC was on a fairly early cadet course as was Sue at LL. I guess there may have been 'Class to Class' (ex-ATSAs) ladies even earlier.
When I started at Latcc late '74 I think out of c400 ATCOs only 8 were from the fairer sex; VW on 'A',TF on 'B',CL LA and AS on 'C', HC on 'D' and PB and MQ on 'E' - sorry if I've forgotten someone!
Even at LL late '86 there were only 4. I guess times have really changed!

It must have been really tough for those trailblazers, even us chaps had to endure some tough 'old-school' mentors!

I remember back in about '99,one evening doing GMC at LL and Speedbird says 'You sound happy' and I replied ' Yeah, I'm the only man here working with 4 gorgeous girls'.

Happy Days!

[Brian 48nav]

And I should have added - ' They're taking me after work ....... for a beer!'

[MONT BLANC]

Brian,

One you missed? I was trained on the wings as an ASC by Mrs DM in '74.

MB

[Mr_Grubby]

Some early ladies must have been Dot Wild, Jill Murphy, Trudie Firth.

Clint.

[Brian 48nav]

If that was Deidre I think she was on the Class to Class one after mine,that's why I'd not mentioned her.
I now have a vague memory of another South-Banker on the wings, who I think didn't make it on radar - Sylvie? or something like that, bespectacled and quite pretty.(As you all were, girls!).
When I was at PO 80-82 used to get to talk to Heather N-C at West Scottish, who later was an instructor at CATC, I guess she was about my age.
Was Wendy on 28 the first female Top Cadet? She did very well considering the stiff (oops!) competition on that course - lot of 'stars' there.
Helen O'C was great - when I had a clanger at LL she was the investigating Inspector and really sympathetic and nice to deal with.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Going back... was Yvonne Pope the first female ATCO - at Gatwick? At Heathrow, I think Sue Clifford was possibly the first. She started there in '68.

[xpz67]

Hi again.

Wendy was on the same cadet course as Bridget.

I think the first female cadet may have been Trudy Hollis.

We had a problem at DM as we were civilians but the flyers were military and needed to fly at any old time. Also, we were charging the MOD an enormous amount of money for our services.

They put the contract out to tender and Airwork got it. We had to train them and to be honest they were hopeless. I was training one of them on Wallop, a chopper called up and he identified it using SSR. A short time later he got the pilot to fly a heading and then turned it 30% to identify it!

The Airwork guys did not validate so the MOD put the military in, which I think was what they wanted. I loved it there.

I had lost my licences as I was diabetic, then went to HQ. I then fell ill again and had almost a year sick. I was therefore kicked out.

Cheers.

JP.

[xpz67]

Me again.

Which ATCO's history are you reading?

JP.

[Loki]

Brian 48 nav

I think that was Sylvia....can't remember her surname. When I first met her, she was going out with the late Pete Withers (he was sharing a flat in Feltham at the time; not the famous place on the green, with Neil Waller). I next encountered her at latcc in the early 80's when she was working in ATC Ops3, married I think to a bloke called Fred Nash.

[Brian 48nav]

I can't PM you - I'll have to seek permission before I reveal the name.

Loki,

I didn't know Pete Withers but can remember him, IIRC one of 4 young ATCOs to die while I was there - Stu(?) Hicks from flu I think,another guy died after a game of squash and someone else I think had been on a reunion p-up and hit his head getting off a train, believe he died in his sleep.

All very sad! Let's talk about the girls again!

Brian Wildey

[Loki]

I was on 28 course, there was a trio of girls on one of the courses we overlapped with at the college.

One was Linda Morrison, another Judy Hunt; was H O'C the third, or am I losing it after all this time?

[Brian 48nav]

When I was doing Twr at Brum, Apr-Aug '74, (slight overlap with Hobbsy and long overlap with Bob Parry) there were 2 ladies doing APC names Brenda & Linda along with Ollie Smith - so I guess about 26 course.

I think Helen may have been before that?

[Mr_Grubby]

xpz67

PM me.

C.

[Dash8fan]

Helen is one of the best

[Mr_Grubby]

Hoc

Yes, one of the best.
Took a pub lunch with her only recently.
She is on safari in Kenya right now.

C.:ok:

[Bring back Tridents]

Christine Thorburn (?) must have been on a fairly early cadet course. Christine was at Glasgow when I arrived in 1979 on ATCA famil from 39 Course and she'd been there a while. During that time she'd become Christine Goodwin. I think she might have been top cadet on whichever cadet course she was on. She retired last year from EGAC. When I was posted to Glasgow in 1980, she and Linda Morrison were the only two lady ATCOs there.

[ZOOKER]

ATCA Famil from 39 Course, at Glasgow. - That should lead to an 'ident' shortly.
Stand-by while I dig out the course documentation from the late Chas Davies.
As for the Tridents.......MONSTER!!
(especially the 3Bs)! :ok:

[Loki]

Margaret Ballantyne must have been quite early methinks....she was well established at EGPF when I arrived there in the 70s.

[Vercingetorix]

September 1950
Yvonne Pope became the first woman air traffic controller in the United Kingdom.

Cheers:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thought so.... and didn't she subsequently fly for Dan Air?

[chevvron]

Margaret Ballantyne was indeed at Glasgow in '72 when I went there for ADC unit endorsement along with Pat Foster (married to BEA Station manager at Campbelltown) and Pauline Kirkwood. One memorable day, these three were 'manning' the three control positions and supervisor John Sellars and I were the only blokes on duty, the assistants being two or three of the lovely girl ATCAs whcih Glasgow seemed to attract.(Chrissie MacLean, Anne Davidson, Margaret Thomson to name just a few)

[mr grumpy]

The two ladies at Birmingham in the early 70s would have been Brenda Poll and Linda Johnson, both of 25 course and also to be found at CATC in the summer. Helen O'Conner and Judi Hunt were a year or so ahead, possibly 23 course.

[Brian 48nav]

Old Herc mate of mine joined Dan c'76 and I asked him had he flown with the lady captain, one Yvonne Pope.

'Yes' he said, last week,'On the way to the aircraft she says" Mike, I've got to make a phone call, be a darling and carry my flight bag out to the aircraft", of course I said'.

Made I laugh, ex-Herc capt carrying her bag - never carried my nav bag, miserable git!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

But Yvonne had one or two points over you mate!

[Brian 48nav]

Bren, You bitch! (Only joking).

[Vercingetorix]

Re lady ATCOs
Let's not forget the late Cecilia Hamilton.

[Brian 48nav]

You're right, I had omitted her from my list above. I assume she was there when I started at LATCC or did she come down with the 'Preston lot'? Was she on E Watch?

[Vercingetorix]

Cec used to join up with of a group of us who shared a house in Harlington in '69. She was on her cadet course then. I can't remember which watch she was on but think that it might have been C. She later married a non ATCer and following a spell at LATCC got a transfer to Manchester.
The house mates used to joke that she was the right height to have been a Hostess on the English Electric Lightning. She was also a chum of Pete Withers.
:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Then there was Beverley at Heathrow in 1970 and a while later Judith.

[chevvron]

Mr Grumpy; I think you'll find Judy and Helen were on 22 Course, certainly not 23 'cos we were all fellas!
And who can forget lovely Linda Grainger (Liverpool/Heathrow) with her long blonde hair; last I heard she was SATCO Woodvale.

[spekesoftly]

LG was SATCO at Woodford (long time ago), but I'm not sure about Woodvale?

Cec initially moved from LATCC to EGGP, and then to Manch a year or two later.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yep... I helped to train Linda at Heathrow. She had some personal problems and wanted to move back up north. Nice lady.

[chevvron]

Met Linda first at PATCC (Barton Hall) when she'd just joined as an ATCA, having been in the RAF. I did 6 week famil at PATCC then went to Lindholme for radar endorsement; Linda turned up there a month or so later on a liaison visit. I was doing the NJRSA task (my mentor having nipped off for a fag - the Engllish type dummies!) and she sat and chatted with me for about an hour; very distracting, especially with all the RAF controllers eyeing her up too. She told me then she lived in Bolton and I gathered her partner lived there too, so maybe this is why she had problems at Heathrow as prior to this she'd been at Liverpool until NATS lost the contract.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

T.. yes, you're right. I believe her partner was a Tels chap. Hope it all worked out for her..

[Mr_Grubby]

xpz67

You need to sort out you PM settings. I am unable to reply to you !!

C.

[ZOOKER]

I had the pleasure of training Cecilia in the tower at Manchester.
Great fun, always a pleasure to work with. The morning of her board we arrived in the tower to find snow ploughs and things on the runway.
She was indeed a hostess on Invicta DC4s, and her visits to the flight-deck with mugs of tea lead to an interest in ATC.
I believe that her husband's accountancy firm still do the accounts for GATCO.
The watch often helped move her canal boat along The Bridgewater Canal from Preston Brook to Worsley.

[Vercingetorix]

Hi ZOOKER
Thanks for the background infill re Cec.
I had forgotten the Invicta DC4 time.
Super little lady.

Cheers:ok:

[Ed Set]

Knew Cec very well-a lovely lady.

Her time with Invicta was also on the Vikings. She always used to joke that the only reason that they employed her was that because of her height she was probably the only member of the Cabin Crew that didn't have to duck when passing the wing main spar in the cabin.
Always remember that she had dweadful pwoblems with the letter "R" and hated it when she had to speak to "Rank 'ZN" on the RT!

Fond memories.

[chevvron]

HD you haven't mentioned tall Sue Clarkson married to short Graham!! Plus Steph Simmonds.

[Vercingetorix]

And in the not so tall category Margaret Pitman or Jane Murray!
:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Steph started at LL in '83 and I thought it was the "early girls" causing the interest. All the years I worked with GC I didn't even know his wife's name, let alone the fact that she'd been in ATC!!!

[chevvron]

Sue and Graham (along with Pete and Dot Wilde) were both controlling at Lindholme in '73 when I was there presumably moving back south when Lindholme closed later that year.

[Brian 48nav]

Yeah,T, this started with my enquiry about first female cadets - it's been established that Yvonne Pope was the first lady civilian ATCO, but that must have been about 12 years before No1 Cadet Course.

According to my info' Lindholme closed on 1st Nov 1977 - courtesy Mr G.

[xpz67]

Hi C.

I have never used the PM facility. Give me a clue how to do it cirrectly.

JP.

[Mr_Grubby]

The lovely Denny Johns ?

LATCC circa 1972. Then Luton.

C.

[Minesthechevy]

xpz -

Log in
go back to thread
left click on the name of the person you want to PM; 4 options come up, one of which is 'Send PM to <this person>

HTH

MTC

[Minesthechevy]

Jeez you lot have dragged up some memories....

Cec H was a Cadet at Prestwick when Concorde was flight-testing. She got pulled from her position because it was felt inappropriate that a female should talk to such an a/c.

Judi H - I heard the barest of bones of a sad story about 10 years ago about Judi - could someone who knew the outcome PM me?

LG - she'd been in the Mil with a guy called Bob - surname forgotten, but a really nice and affable chap. They met one day in teh Ops Room at Barton Hall and he called her by her ex-mil nickname; she made him promise never to repeat it. Always have wondered what it was......

[Vercingetorix]

Cec H was a Cadet at Prestwick when Concorde was flight-testing. She got pulled from her position because it was felt inappropriate that a female should talk to such an a/c.




Glad to see that that attitude has disappeared.

[chevvron]

Lindhome Mil may have soldiered on until '77 but while I was there in '73, the civil controllers were getting posting notices for LATCC or Eastern and some were about to go/had already gone.

Judy H came to Farnborough at some time (more than 10 years ago, more like late '80s) and before she could validate, was diagnosed with a medical problem (can't remember exactly what but it could have been cerebral) and was posted to a desk job in London.

[Minesthechevy]

Chevron

TVM for teh info.

I was @ LATCC 73-84 and Judi was still on the North Bank when I left.

[Brian 48nav]

Chev', Steve Hobbs and I were on the same watch at LL and I can remember him telling me that at the end of his, 28, course he was posted there - so approx Summer '76.

From there on closure, much to his horror he was posted to ScatCC, Oceanic maybe. He was involved in producing a First Day Cover, dated 1st Nov '77, that commemorated the closure.

His escape tunnel finally reached LL c1980, joining up with Joe hanbury who had come direct from Lindholme in '77.

I believe on closure Eastern expanded to absorb some of its airspace, 'cos I remember a couple of guys being posted from LATCC to Watton and returning c'80 when that too closed.

BW

[Mr_Grubby]

Brian 48nav

Well done sir. All correct !

I can see you are reading my book !!

C.:ok:

[PeltonLevel]

I worked with a Judy in the late 80s (can't remember her surname) in the LATCC Development department. She had MS and was quite capable of doing a desk job but was retired under the Loss of Licence Compensation Scheme which required her to completely give up work. There was no partial compensation available for the (probably extended) period when she was capable of making a contribution as an unlicensed person on a lower salary. She wanted to continue to work but it wasn't an option.

[ex-EGLL]

Sorry to hear about Judy, worked with here for 3 years in Belfast..... good times!

On the female related thread I was at Border Radar in 74/75 and some one managed to organise an "All Female" flight, I believe it was a BA shuttle EGLL - EGPF with all female flight-deck / cabin crew and all female controllers.

ex-egll

[Jay Doubleyou]

Certainly the first female ATCO, but I would have thought 1950 was very early for her start date, more like 1960. There was still a novelty value for female controllers when I started in 1963, Yvonne still being referred to as the "only" woman ATCO.
There were five females on my Cadet Course (No3) Angela Warren left before the end; Janet Bell and Penny Heirs (?sp) both married fellow course members and left ATC but their husbands didn't. Trudy Hollis worked at Heathrow for many years, then took early retirement to France with her husband Jack Frith, (lovely farm cottage they had!). Gillian Campbell left in the first year after qualifying to work as a "non-state" ATCO for many years at East Midlands, her married name was Reid-Buckle, and after being widowed by an air display accident, she spent several years as SATCO Guernsey then some time at Gibraltar, she still lives in Gib., although now retired.
My memory doesn't run to previous Cadet Courses, but I seem to remember some female cadets on 1 & 2 Courses but I can't supply names or locations.
On the subject of all female crew and Yvonne Pope, she went to fly for DanAir in the mid sixties, and I remember her as a Skipper in 1968/9. Once, I think in the summer of 1969, when I was the Tower Controller, she was attempting a landing in Jersey in a cloud-burst of Monsoon proportions, in an Ambassador with what sounded like a very young female First Officer. When the aircraft had aquaplaned about half of the runway without the loss of one knot of speed, she made the very professional decision to come back later! That was my first experience with an all female crew.

[Vercingetorix]

Jay Doubleyou

The RAF museum lists her as:

British Civil Aviation in 1950 - Part 2 (http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/british_civil/1950_2.cfm)

Whereas the BBC lists her in a Womens Hour programme as:
1960 Yvonne Pope becomes Britain's first woman air traffic controller. She will also became the first woman captain with Dan Air in 1975

Much as I like the BBC I will go with the RAF on this one.


Cheers
:ok:

[eastern wiseguy]

Is the book widely available?

What about Mhairi Wannop and Gill(?).....at Redbrae in 1978?

[Jay Doubleyou]

Vercingertorix

Agree that it says so in the Museum's chronology, just it doesn't fit with my memory, unreliable as that is nowadays! Might be the usual hitch of confusing ATC staff, in general, with ATCOs specifically! Same applies to the DanAir captaincy seems later than I remember and very long time between ATCO and Captain, 25 years.
Just read the time line for 1975, it specifically says Jet Airliner captain, which matches my memory of her as a (non-Jet) Captain some years before.

[ZOOKER]

Thanks for the update on Gill Reid-Buckle.
I started my ATC career at that same non-state unit with Gill and a great bunch of people. The Approach frequency was the same as the year the airport opened, and the Tower is still 124.0MHz, so work it out for yourselves.
Just for the record, the staff were....
ATCOs:-
Dave Coulson. SATCO
Harry Polloock. Deputy SATCO
Ray Murman.
Dennis O'Connor.
Gill,
Terry Malone.
John Parsons.
Alec Flett.
John (the bins) Smith.
Maurice Buckby.
Pat Patterson.
Gerry Vines.
Bill Maffey.
Paul Whitcher.
John Hall.
John Flynn.
Paul Glasby and Gary Powis passed through as NATCS cadets.

ATCAs (er sorry ATCCs);-
ZOOKER
Julie Wisher.
Anne Conquest.
Linda ? (had a sports car).
Keith Kent.
Karen Smith.
Roger Guy.
Mary O' Dwyer
Mary Bartlett. Married to Chris, who flew PAZTs for Moseley and later ATP's for Loganair.
Fay Pennell, (ATCO u/t), who I believe ended up flying red and silver 747s for that chap with the beard.
The Late Mike Burlyn.

They all complained about the quality of the tea I used to make them!

Eric C. Dyer was The Airport Director.
John ("Day here") Day was the Ops Director.
Sue Carty and Audrey ? among others, ran PABX, below the VCR.
Jim Shepherd was the Airport Engineer

Sincere apologies to anyone I have forgotten.

[Brian 48nav]

I just had a brainwave - not like me really, normally not enough brain cells to wave! - went onto a website entitled DanAir Association and found a letter written by the lady containing a brief resume of her life.

I'm not clever enough to copy it onto here,so brief outline:-

Born Pretoria SA 1930,family moved to UK near Croydon Airport 1936 and like many of us her love of aviation was kindled by the proximity of an airfield.

Joined BOAC as a stewardess and learned to fly at their aero club. Married an instructor and became Mrs Pope. Sadly he died in 1957.

After instructing at Exeter for several years she joined the MOA in 1960 as a trainee ATCO.

Eventually flew with Morton and Dan but retired early in 1980 to be with hubbie No2 in Menorca.