View Full Version : ICAO 4 Examining

25th Mar 2009, 22:31
I'm an examiner of a ICAO 'equivalent' examination. I cannot take this out of the country but I do know the requirements (feeling like I'm losing sense of it all already)

What I'd like to know having been approached by a Latin American country is 'can I examine/sign off relevant aviation people'?

My answer is 'no'

Reason being is that I would like to have some sort of ICAO examination body, behind me. Yes, I'm a native speaker & a well-qualified instructor/examiner but if I sign it off & tomorrow there's an 'incident' in this Latin American country due to the incompetence of Capt. X's standard of English - where do I stand?

It seems to me that I can put an exam together, get it rubber-stamped by the powers that be at ICAO and have a pot of gold. I don't want this; I'd like to see a universal level & exam worldwide. I certainly don't want an incident of some kind on my hands because I have approved Senor X to be Level 4 or 5.

The authority in question came to me (via e-mail) saying that their personnel were already 4,5 or 6. So if I go back to them and say sorry but I found 35% of them were at Level 3, you can imagine what might occur!

Please give your viewpoints ... I'm lost - the whole 'race' to Level 4 has become ridiculous in my eyes!


26th Mar 2009, 20:12
An Examiner holds an Authorisation; most are issued Nationally and are usually only valid in a State covered by the issuing administration. I gather that under EASA if you hold an Examiner Authority in one EU State it will be valid in all EU States.

To use an Examiner Authority in an unconnected State you would need to get an Authorisation issued by the Aviation Administration in that State. They may do this on the basis of your existing Authority. It depends how much they need an examiner.

28th Mar 2009, 08:32
Problem being is that I'm qualified in an EU state that has it's own exam. I cannot use it elsewhere; so with this in mind have told the relevant ATC authority that they need to align themselves to an ICAO compliant exam authority; such as RMIT which offers the RELTA.

I'm more than prepared to train & examine other nations but not prepared to sign it off without an ICAO 4 compliant exam from a large organisation such as RMIT that said nation has signed up to.

Is it me being confused? The country in question seems to think that I can examine them solely and give them their ICAO level without such a need! (which I won't do!)


28th Mar 2009, 12:32
Hola Arik -
You are - as I understand - certificated as examiner for your EU country's ICAO 4 Examination. So you are fully qualified. As far as approving you in that other Latin America country, to have you certificated, is their burden (and responsiblity), not yours. It is up to them to approve you, or not. All such qualifications are issued by each ICAO separate member state.
As far as I am concerned, if I did train anyone having a ATPL from FAA, JAR or Anglo Saxon nation aviation authorities, it is obvious that they speak English and are at or above Level 4 English language proficient. Look at the FAA. they issue such endorsement automatically to any licence holder, without specific test, and it means to be at least "level 4". My FAA certificate does not specify "Level 4, 5 or 6"... who cares. It is "one of those" - their choice.
And there are some Cockneys that speak English Level 1 or 2... is it not...? When I watch "The Eastenders" on TV, I read the subtitles to understand. I speak with the English accent used in the People's Republic of California, and I can understand and confirm (in that jargon) the "cleared for takeoff" clearance received in Quetta, Baluchistan... or Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso... Once again - with English Proficiency Level 4 (or above) - ICAO reinvented the wheel, and JAR immediately followed the bandwagon. JAR politicians salaries are proportional to the numbers of new rules they issue.
Happy contrails