Moving From Boeing to Airbus or Vice Versa

[Iver]

This is not your typical Airbus vs. Boeing debate. I realise both types have their positives and negatives. I have flown neither type and yet I hope to fly at least one of the in the future.

My interest is hearing from pilots who have flown both types (i.e., 737NG and A320/19 or 757/767 to A330/A340, etc.). I am not referring to the older Airbus airplanes like the A300 or A310 - I am referring to the side-stick newer generation. There are plenty of airlines that operate both Airbus and Boeing aircraft: Easy operates both 737NGs and A319s. BA and Air France operate many of both types. Aer Lingus operated 737s for years and now operates Airbus. Air One pilots in Italy are switching from Boeing to Airbus. Lufthansa pilots may start on the 737-300/500 and move to the A330/340.

So, a few questions for pilots who have flown both Airbus and Boeing:

1. How was the transition from one type to the other (i.e., from 737NG to A320 or from A319 to 757/767)? Was it easy or difficult initially?

2. Did you find that you had a preference of one type vs. the other? What differences did you miss (from the previous) or appreciate (from the newer)?

3. Do you feel like newer automation takes some of the "fun" out of flying or do you prefer it due to enhanced safety, etc.?

I have spoken with several pilots who say they have a preference. Sure, some people will say it doesn't matter what you fly - they will say pay and QOL are the most critical factors and you shouldn't care what you fly... That may be true, but I am still young and not jaded like many. Again, this is not meant to be an Airbus vs. Boeing battle - I'd like to hear from people who have flown both types and hear their impressions.

Cheers

[erikka]

hi iver well i tran`4rom a 319 2 a 777 and there iz really no diff` in handling both where 1 the airbus was designed by engineers the other boeing by eng and pilots personally the boeing wins hands down! the airbus is a 1 master slave .it depends who inputs the side stick first in an emerg. evasive man. 4 ex: ,if both inputs r da same the airbus flies straight disregarding bith pilot inputs.:}airbus is outdated and really the aircraft 2 fly is an embraer today :8 cheers

[AngelOfMusic]

Did anyone understand Erikka's post?

[jpoth06]

Did anyone understand Erikka's post?

Nope. Probably a child messing around.

[Akrapovic]

Me - Boeing to Bus (73NG - A320)

Initially I didn't care much for the bus - preferred the EFIS on the Boeing, as well as the Autopliot Unit and Flight Management System. I miss the fact that the Boeing you can grab it the scruff of the neck in poor weather - it's more of a pilot's plane, whereas the Airbus is a bit more subtle in it's handling.

There's stuff the Bus has tho, that the Boeing doesn't - sidesticks make the aircraft very comfortable to sit in for several hours - no yoke, so bags of space, and the flight deck is considerably larger. It's also quieter which makes a difference, so you can fly without headsets on in the cruise.

The Autothrust system is very clever and having done one winter on the bus, I find it's more than capable of handling gusts and shears than I'd expected.

Quite a few complain about the airbus, but I find they are people who've actually never flown one - it has grown on me as an aircraft, so I can't complain. It's not a bad bit of kit at all . . . .

[Old Smokey]

I understood exactly what erikka said, it was in Mobile/Cell phone Textese. If only the last two posters had kids of about erikka's age, they would have understood immediately.

After consultation with my two twentyish kids, the translation goes something like this -

"Hi Iver,

Well, I transferred from an A319 to a B777 and there is really no difference in handling both.

My first aircraft, the Airbus was designed by engineers, whereas my other, second aircraft, the Boeing, was jointly designed by engineers and pilots.

Personally, I think that the Boeing wins hands down!

The Airbus is a slave to only one master, and that depends upon who inputs the side stick first in an emergency evasive manoeuvre. For example, if both inputs are the same, the Airbus flies straight disregarding both pilot inputs.

Airbus is outdated technology, and really, in today's technology, the only aircraft to fly is the Embraer.

Cheers.

There now AngelOfMusic and jpoth06, that was easy wasn't it! :ok:

erikka, just by way of a little assistance for your transition from Mobile/Cell phone to computer key-board, the key-board has a facility not found on the phone - the Shift Key! (Usually found at the lower left corner of the key-board). Conventionally, this key is used for capitilising the first letter of the first word of each sentence.



Now, off to translate some Egyptian heiroglyphics, my other hobby.

rgds 2 all,

old smokey

[TurningFinals]

Haha Smokey.

[Iver]

Akrapovic,

Great post! Those are the types of responses I am interested in seeing. Personal opinions and impressions based upon experience.

Again, I have spoken with pilots who prefer Boeing vs. Airbus and vice versa for various reasons. It seems to me that a lot of European airlines are making the switch from Boeing to Airbus fleets on short-to-medium haul (maybe for political reasons?) and many of those pilots will likely make the transition from one type to the other. It would be interesting to read about people's personal experiences in the transition.

I hope people find this thread interesting. Thanks to people who continue to contribute their impressions...

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I went from 737NG to A319, have recently flown 320s, no experience on any of the bigger stuff.

The transition, in terms of the type rating and the initial period of line training, I found far less demanding than the 737 course, though the boeing was my first jet so I suppose that is to be expected! I do think the airbus is easier to get to grips with - the biggest challenge I found was getting my head round ecam. Once you understand the ecam philosophy it becomes a fantastic tool for managing non-normal situations.

At first I had the standard boeing pilot reaction to the layers of automation and it took a good year before I began to appreciate fly-by-wire and just how intuitive it can be. It really is a case of understanding how the a/c reacts to your sidestick inputs in normal law. For instance at first I hated landing the bus' in a gusty crosswind, I was overcontrolling in horrible fashion and felt the boeing was far superior in such a situation. When I realised it was me, and not the aircraft that was at fault I really started to appreciate how stable an aircraft it is in gusty conditions. The auto-trim, auto-thrust and functions like GS-mini make life much easier. I did miss disconnecting everything on the 73 and poling it in on a visual, but again with more experience I found the bus to be just as much fun. And it's a lot quieter without that bleeding trim wheel!

As for your final question, yes some of the satisfaction I felt flying the boeing from TOD to touchdown has gone. While flying the bus "manually" is still enjoyable it is less demanding. The level of automation the bus offers over the 737 however is fantastic, particularly single engine, and that is of far more importance to the day job.

So i'm a total bus convert. It would be interesting to hear from guys who fly bigger stuff, as I understand the 320 family is far more forgiving than its bigger brothers. As for going the other way, my sim partner on the 737 type rating was a very experienced bloke who had spent years on the A320 - he said the move from bus to boeing was the worst experience of his life!

[BelArgUSA]

Boeing (retired) "old timer" here.
Went from the 727, to the 707, then to the DC8, then to the 747.
All positions on 707-727, captain on DC8 and 747.
As long as it was "Boeing", we could sleep in the classroom.
Manuals were the same. In the cockpit, switches were about same place.
xxx
But when I went to the Douglas DC8, I was lost... Not a Boeing...!
Even had to study, and learn a new airplane vocabulary.
xxx
I ended my career on the 747-200, even though we had 400s...
Did not like the 2 pilot cockpit, EFIS, FMS and modern gadgets.
NO F/E... That's the most important crewmember.
You dont teach old dogs any new tricks.
I had to suffer to study the FMS when they installed them in the 200s.
xxx
Now you ask about Airbus...
Well, I have been in A-300 and A-310 cockpits. I could fly them.
But the 320, and the rest, enjoy them... no thanks.
Too different. I often did jump seat on A-340s.
So different, 5 minutes after T/O, went to enjoy wine and lobster in cabin.
No idea what to do if I had "to fly one". Just know how to squawk 7700...
xxx
My opinion.
You can do a transition Airbus-Boeing-Airbus when you are young.
Call it "less than 40-45, maybe 50 age"...
Beyond that, stay on your kind of planes.
And after 55, dont even attempt to qualify on another type.
xxx
When I started with airlines, we had old timers too. They were DC6/Connie pilots.
Some of them (yes, a few) failed to transition to jets.
But then, we did not know what it is like to be an old timer.
Now I know - You will get your turn.
xxx
:8
Happy contrails

[Iver]

Interesting to note how pilots who start on the Airbus A319/20/21 (or who have considerable experience on that airplane) might find the transition to the Boeing (i.e., 737NG) a bit challenging. I wonder if that is because the Airbus might require more "monitoring" than "flying"? I have heard that from Boeing lovers but, of course, I have no experience on either airplane so I wouldn't know personally.

Again, any personal experiences on the transition from one to the other and personal preferences for your current or previous aircraft would be appreciated.

[Old Smokey]

Iver,

Apologies for my earlier frivolous post, I just couldn't resist it and it wasn't aimed at you. :}

Our airline and it's subsidiaries have a "mix" of Airbus and Boeing aircraft, Airbus : A319, A320, A330, A340, A380; Boeing : B777 (4 versions), B747-400 (2 versions).

We are in a continuing process of changeing crews on aircraft types, and no-one makes any remark about any particular difficulty in transitioning from one designer philosophy to the other. I'm heavily involved in training, and can confidently state that any old habits from the previous type are thoroughly sorted out by about mid-way through the Simulator phase. By the time the trainee has reached the actual aircraft, it's plain sailing from there on. :ok:

Naturally during "bar talk", pilots make comment about missing a certain good feature of their previous aircraft, but that's been normal for just about all aircraft types. Even the Airbus 'bird strikes from the rear' have dissappeared since the A380 came along.

I've always enjoyed the change from one aircraft type to another, it keeps the brain cells and your interest alive, but be aware of BelArgUSA's comments about conversion at an advancing age. Very true words indeed!

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Iver]

No problem. Still interested in hearing about more personal experiences. Would also like to hear about people who have gone from Airbus to Boeing and their impressions (what they like and what they miss).

[Jox]

Iver,
I started out in the late eighties with my first job ( on a jet no less ) flying a DC9-32 which for me was the best aircraft in the world. Minimal automation, plenty of mental work with the sums and the best fun I ever believed anyone could have at work. Flying several sectors a day short haul with high turnover I quickly learned the skills to fly the ship under the tutelage of some very experienced Captains who gently steered me into the pilot I have become over the years.
Disaster happened in 1994 when I was told to prepare for a TR to 737 classics. I was torn between leaving my old faithful friend whom I had learned to master and who I felt was forgiving and understood the way I flew, for a new, different innovation that I was not looking forward to.
I completed my TR without difficulty and actually found the 737-400 flight deck to be relatively spacious compared to the 9, well laid out and a joy to fly. There was increased automation which I found welcome and I enjoyed the aircraft immensely. I was happily settled again until a rumour circulated in 1997 that the company had invested significantly by placing an order for 19 new airbus’ made up of 11 A320’s and 8 A321’s with a view to retiring all of the 737’s from within the fleet by 2001.
I came to the conclusion that my command course would happen after conversion to the “French Invader “ and therefore the more I could learn about the changes would be in my best interest. I studied with trepidation about learning to fly an aircraft with significantly more and very different automated systems which had a FBW side stick rather than the conventional yolk with which I was familiar and extremely happy.
My TR came and I passed with no issues at all. Anything that was not liked was eased out of me in the sim as I learned the changes that this new aircraft demanded. I rather enjoyed the whole process and found it beneficial to be back to basics and discovering a new way to fly. I was taken with the added space in the ‘bus and the added automation.
I had no real problems and quite enjoyed taking to flying them although I still hanker after the Boeing for reasons I still do not understand. Command course completed and the only aircraft I have flown as a Captain has been the ‘bus.
Clinically – the ‘bus is better built than Boeings as the skin on the airframes all look near perfect, look at any old 737-400 and you will see what I mean and that is the way they came out of Renton. However, much as though my company will never go back to Boeing’s, I still hanker for their flight decks, their familiarity and convention. Their operation is quite different, a challenge in the early days but no longer anything that causes any issues. I have become accustomed to the ‘bus just as I have any aircraft.
I have had no major issues converting but if I was given an opportunity to go back to a Boeing with the same company for the same pay and conditions – you would not see me for dust. My wife is an SFO for the enemy flying 777’s, an aircraft I would love to fly but will likely never manage to do. She started on A320’s before converting to the 777, I will try to sweet talk her into posting a comment on the process from the other side although she is not a “fan” of PPRuNe as she is a little younger and believes it is blighted by the uneducated.
Hope this is some help to you Iver.
Low & slow !
Jox :ok:

[Dan Winterland]

I went from the 744 to the A320, with a bit of 747 Classic in between.

To my mind the 744 was always reminding you me it was a clever glass cockpit grafted onto an old classic aircraft. Sometimes, the interface just didn't work. Also the cockpit was cramped and the ergonomics left a lot to be desired.

The A320 is different. It works much better as a result of having been designed as a complete package from inception. The EICAS works better than ECAM as it won't let you leave anything undone without some pretty obvious clues. The automatics are better - the Track/FPA option is brilliant, and the ability to fly fully managed NPAs is a real asset, especially when flying into some of the airfields my company operates to.

The sidestick takes a short while to get used to, but once you realise and appreciate how the FBW works, the typical initial overcontrolling by new convertees is easily managed.

Generally, the Airbus is better IMHO.




A few days ago, Winterland Junior got a ride in a 737NG sim as a birthday treat. I watched form the jump seat as he flew a few circuits with an instructor. I was suprised to see how basic the thing was, very much like the 744 in that there were a lot of older systems. I gather from mates who fly the 777 that it works well, probably because it was designed to be a FBW glass aircraft from the start.

[Iver]

Dan, Ozy and Jox,

Thank you for your great posts! These are the types of opinions and personal experiences that I like to hear about. I hope others find them interesting as well.

It's funny how opinions can differ among pilots. I spoke with an Easy pilot recently who said he misses the 737NG after making the jump to the A319 and he would return if offered. He felt his flying skills were degrading a bit and he didn't like the "monitoring" aspect of Airbus flying - that was his opinion... I realise both types are highly automated and monitoring is one aspect of managing automation.

I look forward to reading more opinions/impressions if there are any out there...

[PENKO]

The thing about Airbus is you keep learning and discovering new things about the aircraft every day. The 737 was more staight forwardn in that aspect. Or maybe I was just a bit younger at that stage.

[Iver]

I want to thank people for their interesting responses thus far and invite others to provide their impressions/opinions of the transition from Airbus to Boeing and vice versa. Opinions about what you like/dislike in your new airplane vs. the previous are always interesting.

Cheers

[betpump5]

I am glad I used the search function.

When this recession is over, I'll be looking for a non-long haul job. I feel like I've wasted the last few years of my life monitoring.

The question I'd like to ask though is DEC onto an Airbus from a Boeing. I'e using your left hand.

For those that are right handed, what is the transition like going from a Boeing to the LHS of an airbus?

I have been practising writting with my left hand to try and get some coordination.

Are there any tips (official or otherwise) that were given to right handed pilots before they moved to the LHS of an airbus?

Any excersises I could do with my left hand?

(If possible, please restrain yourselves to sensible answers. Unless you have a really original joke!)

[Scrod]

Hi Iver

You've hit the nail on the head there with the observation that no two pilots are alike on most issues.

For what it's worth I've been back and forth a few times between B767 to A340 to B757 to A330/A340 again. I have had a dabble on B777 in sim only.

Really I don't mind what I fly but the best advice I had when transitioning was to totally forget you'd ever flown the last type; start afresh each time. Then you won't be clinging on to any misplaced fond memories that may lead to problems accepting the new aircraft.

As for preference, I like the Airbus for it's side-stick (very easy to adapt to and natural for handling, but a devil for teaching on as you can't easily see what the student is doing) the table and space in the Airbus cockpit is nice too. The Boeing, especially the B767 was a pleasure to fly and the FMS and EICAS, especially in the B777 is very good. My main disappointment with the Airbus is the excessive amount of paper checklists (although these have vanished in the A380 - also very nice to fly in the sim) and some confusing malfunction techniques. The B777 has the very odd addition of a trim in a fly-by-wire aircraft a tragic hangover of old inadaptable US operators that rather cling on to the past, but I do approve of the moving thrust levers as a tactile measure of power.

So there you have it. Both a pleasure to fly, so if I had a choice I'd probably plump for Airbus for any sustained long haul. ULR operations for the more ergonomic cockpit and Boeing for shorter operations and any training.

Hope this helps.

[betpump5]

But in an airbus, don't you just feel that you are not flying? I adore the situational awareness I get with a yoke. Having a side-stick just seems too computerised.

Yet I am surprised that the majority of replies here say that Ex-Boeing guys now love the airbus.

Perhaps I should take the acid test and see if I can get in the A340 sims to try the sidestick.

[TheGorrilla]

Having gone from A320 to B777 and back again (and flown the Airbus with both hands). I can't say I favour one over the other. The conversion to the Airbus second time round was easier having previous experience (needed that! - was on a command course!). Fortunately I had no problems using the left hand on the side stick either, took me about 30 mins to get a feel for it again.

The difficulties I had in converting were: not confusing the systems in ground school, terminology and abreviations and learning the different take-off and landing tecniques (especially in cross-wind).