The Most Hairy Approach ?

[M25 Pilot]

RW27 at GUR,wind 180/30,RVR600m,or how about London City,5.5 glide,wind 190/35, cloudbase 1000ft ,"Pilots please be advised the ILS is currently out of service!
Any advances boys and girls ?

[SID the STAR]

try katmandu rwy 02 during monsoon season!

[Speedbrake Lever]

YEAH SID

You got it Kathmandu is in a different League

Not only Monsoon but the nice active CB'S at 20-12 miles final and some superb gusty winds

Wonder why they go trekkin" must be fun !!!

[ZK-NSJ]

since i have only been to kathmandu as slf
on a sq A310 i cannot really comment as to
how hairy it is, but i have heard there is
a 4500m mountain somewhere in the flightpath
that aircraft have to fly over (the 727 a couple of years ago didn't and flew strait into it)

[StressFree]

Gentlemen,
Try Tamanrasset, South Algeria (central Sahara) when a huge haboob is blowing. Your given the most basic instructions to commence an approach using aids that are not turned on!!!!!
TWR 'Cleared VOR approach'
ME 'Confirm VOR radiating'
TWR 'Negative'
What more can I say.

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'Keep the stress down'

[Sobelena]

My French girlfriend's vag......oh sorry, wrong forum!

[con-pilot]

Aspen, Co. KASE at night IMC. It' a VOR/DME approach that takes you right at the side of a moutain. DH is 10,200ft 2,400 agl.

[the wizard of auz]

My most hairy approach would have to be the one into my home airport, after being in the bush for three weeks without a razor.......boy that was ugly.
:) :)
Well some one had to say it.

[StressFree]

Sobalena,
Sir, I would like to nominate you for the prize for the most humourous post on pprune ever! Sheer perfection. More please, soon.

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'Keep the stress down'

[VP8]

RW09 into LXGB with 90deg rh turn 1/4 mile
final with a full Levanter blowing used to look hairy from the my position in the tower..

VP8

AN124 you fetch it we'll haul it!!

[OzExpat]

StressFree ...

TWR 'Cleared VOR approach'
ME 'Confirm VOR radiating'
TWR 'Negative'

Geez mate, and here was me thinking it was bad in my corner of the planet. Here, all navaids are "pilot monitored" so if ya hear nuthin, ya got nuthin ... and ya know it before ATC does. Used to be that way with the ILS too...

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Once a king, always a king.
But once a nite's enough!

[Royan]

Have anyone landed at Quito-Ecuador?

[buck-rogers]

I hope so!

[AKAAB]

I seem to recall that ASE (Aspen) closes at sundown. Were you doing practice approaches at night? Just curious....

AKAAB
"I have control...ECAM actions, please."

[con-pilot]

AKAAB re. Aspen. Unfortunately not anymore. It used to close at thirty min. after offical sundown and reopen thirty min. before or after offical sunrise, I have forgoten now.

But now the airport opens at 07:00 LT in the morning and closes to landing at 22:30 LT and for takeoff at 23:00 LT for stage III aircraft. Stage II aircraft have earlier times for night takeoffs. I really don't know when the times changed to allow night time operations.

In the winter time with a full moon and when the mountains are covered with snow it's not to bad, kind of pretty to tell the truth.

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 19 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 19 October 2000).]

[Jim lovell]

Kathmandu approach seems to be pretty notorious. 6 degree approach path, large mountain. The "Sierra approach" is apparently very complicated and at least 2 heavy jets(an A310 and an A300) crashed while conducting this approach about 8 years ago, both within a month or so of each other

[traveler]

Yep, been to Quito-Ecuador.
Nice high altitude, nice high approach speed.
Lately the ILS signal has been more or less steady, though.
So that makes tracking inbound easier. You got to abandon the GS right after the little ridge, push the nose over, and not forget to flare aggressively for that hefty upsloping runway 35. Brake overtemps are common after that.
But I'd call it fun, not hairy. (yet)
(now if the volcano would blow ... )

[AKAAB]

Regarding ASE and night ops - thanks for the update. It's only been about a year or so since I last flew in there. I guess the locals finally decided it was okay for airplanes to fly at night.

BTW - the only time I've ever had to declare and emergency was on a missed approach off Aspen. ATC wanted to make us hold for Eagle with a :40 EFC. We were in a Lr24....nuff said!

AKAAB

[gaunty]

Sobelena
ROTFLMAO have to echo Stressfrees' remark, although it would be a close race with the Italians.

But getting back to the main game, in GA in Oz it's less about aids than the lack of them and environment.

Landing on a PAL airport/flarepath in the desert out the back of nowhere, without ILS/PAPI/VASI approach guidance on a moonless night under 9/8s cloud without ANY other civilisation (ie lights for some sort of a horizon, although in and of itself equally hazardous)in ANY direction, often without an airport aid of any sort. Back to basics then I can tell you. Pucker factor way up there.
We talk about "the inside of a cow on a dark night"

[Mac the Knife]

Sobelena. Brilliant. And funny.
Does she have hair under the wings also?

[Aerosmith]

How about Vagar, Faroe Islands. RWY is 4100'/1200m, offset localizer approach through the fjord. Turbulence can often be severe if winds are more than 20 kt. Maersk Air has a daily route flying 737's !

[Petergozinya]

Avon airpark just west of Vail Colorado. 8.5 degree,...yes,..8.5 degree MLS to a 2,400 (useable) runway at around 7,000 feet elevation. deHavilland dash 7 country.

[himalaya]

Having flown in Nepal for several years, I have come to conculde that The approach at Kathmandu is no easy job. Whether be it at monsoon time ( when most of the time you can't see the runway if you do not bust the minimums, i.e. there is no way you will see the runway if you are at the MDA at missed approach point, you must descend to 4800 ft instead of the MDA 5120 ft. PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS....! For the flyers who have flown here for many years, their unofficial and unpublished MDA for VOR-DME runway 02 approach is between 4700-4800 ft.)
or be it pre or post monsoon there are always enough tensions due to steep approach, narrow valley, cross winds and enough CB's).

One fact, the most of the crashes in nepal has happened in and around Kathmandu, mostwhile on apprach and some during take off!! So, watch out and do not forget to be slightly high while on Vor-Dme approach for runway 02 specially between 10-6 Dme to kathmandu.

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[Petergozinya]

minor correction, the 2,400 number is feet for Avon airpark, not meters. Very short.

[Sobelena]

Mac the Knife,

With regard to your question, I was waiting for a thread on "missed approach"!!! :)

[OzExpat]

Sobelena... yeah, the story of my life too!
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

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Once a king, always a king.
But once a nite's enough!

[4wings]

Forgive an slf putting in his two penn'orth amongst the professionals but for an "interesting" approach try this:
in the mid 60s, Aden Airways (of glorious memory) had a weekly DC3 scheduled call at a place called something like Wadi Malayn on the old South Yemen/North Yemen border. As the Egyptian Army occupying North Yemen were happily shooting at anything that moved, the only way in was through a gorge in the mountains, with the edges only a few hundred feet off each wing tip. Very hot, very, very bumpy. I once went in with John Gross (?) ex BOAC who insisted both pilots had to hold the controls because of the kick back. Once through the gorge you had to do an immediate (now!) 90 left, drop like a stone, pick out a bit of less stony desert between the odd whitewased stone markers, and land downwind (usually blowing about 20 mph) with a thousand feet before you hit the mountainside. I still have my vintage 1966 8mm home movie (now on tape) of the procedure taken as I propped myself between the two pilots' seats (no jumpseats on those DC3s!). Sadly it's silent - oh for the heart warming rumble of a pair of P&Ws...
Another hairy downwinder was Dhala. Some of the DC3s were actually unconverted C47s (i.e. still with cargo doors).
Aden Airways won the Cunningham Trophy for seven years accident free (but sadly lost a DC3 in 1966 to a terrorist bomb, 32 killed including 2 of my guys).

[Royan]

Traveller What did you fly , and did you land R/W 17? .

[Royan]

Traveller What did you fly , and did you land R/W 17? .

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Petergozinya: Are you sure Avon Airpark is still there? On frequent bus transits between Vail and Beaver Creek I've looked at what appears to be an abandoned airfield just East of Avon i.e. no aircraft on it. I've been passenger (AA 757) into Eagle a couple of times and that is quite interesting too....

[Mac the Knife]

Sobelena - if you miss your approach there's a usable dirt runway at a slight angle to the main strip.

I'm off to Jet Blast :)

[Flying Lawyer]

Not the least bit hairy, and nothing special to you professionals, but the most spectacular approach view I've had recently is into Meigs Field, Chicago.
Not as exciting as O'Hare - but Meigs controllers don't ask if you can "Land and Hold Short" - not in a C172 anyway!

http://www.friendsofmeigs.org/images/Meigs_Field_Aerial_01_(640x480).jpg

[con-pilot]

Ok, lets talk about GITMO naval air base in Cuba, the folks that have landed large jet airplanes there know what I am talking about.

Land to the east. DO NOT FLY OVER THE FENCE/ STORBE LIGHT (at night) BECAUSE YOU WILL BE SHOT AT.

Never was shot at, but a DC-8 did crash there one night right after I landed. They were trying not to fly into Cuban airspace. Cargo flight and the crew did live.

But they have a great "O" club.

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 30 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 30 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 30 October 2000).]

[mutt]

Con Pilot,

Don’t know if it was the same crash, but I saw a 60 minutes (US TV Show) interview a DC8 Captain regarding crew fatigue. He had crashed a DC8 on approach to Cuba, he blamed crew fatigue rather than the need to avoid Cuban airspace.

Mutt


(PS, I got duff gen regarding F900 training in CA, the guy did a Gulfstream rating.)

[Aerosmith]

Yeah, The approach into GITMO is a circling, but you have to stay within 3/4 mile of the RWY edge. Fidel WILL shoot at you. Used to fly out of there, once had the opportunity to see an old AN-2 defect right in front of me. Luckily had a camera. Still have a few pics. Family of 11 managed it out. Caused a lot of commotion though.

[traveler]

Hé, Royan.
Landed on 17 only once. Was a nice clear day so the visual circuit to 17 after the approach on 35 was not a problem. It is fun and interesting though, with that sloping terrain being pretty close on base and final. The main thing is getting the speed way back early in the descent so you can sink nicely into the bowl the city and airport are in. The Quito Mariscal Sucre Airport is at 9226 ft with 15900 ft terrain (Pichincha Vulcano) within 5 miles and the 19400 ft Cotopaxi Vulcano within 40 miles. Last year the ILS signal was fluctuating too much (GS mainly) so we weren't allowed to couple it to the autopilot, nowadays it's much better and we can. The ILS G/P antenna is further down the runway (830 meters), so at 9.8/QIT you have to abandon the 3.2° Flight Path Angle and push down -4° to pick up the PAPI glide path. If you do circle for Rwy 17 it takes you around a 9820 ft 'hill' which may obscure your vision to the Rwy. The sloping terrain and downsloping Rwy (0.43) give you a sense of being way too low. But you got to trust the numbers. O, and the equipment is a MD-11.
Now, tell me why you are interested.
Ciao.

[Brenoch]

Have to nominate two.. Old Funchal was always interesting, especially with northern winds blowing.. Very turbulent.. And my all time favourite, Feydzabad in Afghanistan. Trigger-happy afghans sitting on the mountain ridges surrounding the old soviet built metal! runway which accually is designated rwy 17/36 due to a 13 degree turn approx. 1/3:rd in to the runway length..

[hailstone]

brenoch - is new funchal (longer and offset runway) operational now ? any pics ?

[Brenoch]

hailstone:
Yep, up n running.. Was some pictures of it in Flight, two issues ago methinks..

[DABHAND]

Must be Gibraltar R/W 09 in min vis for the approach with a wind from the SE giving decreased performance shear (tailwind) over the threshold and then trying to stop on a wet runway.

[This message has been edited by DABHAND (edited 02 November 2000).]

[con-pilot]

MUTT, you are dead on there about the actual cause of the crash. A couple of points I should have made about the crash were;

1. (As you pointed out) Crew fatigue, a very long duty day and very little sleep before.

2. There was no reason to land to the east that night, the wind was light and they could have landed to the west, which is a normal approach.

During the day especialy in the afternoon the wind is always (well most of the time) from the east so you have to keep you base to final turn within 3/4 miles of the runway.

PS. I never heard of anybody actually bening fired at.