10 ways to improve Avalon Airshow

[mickk]

1. Get some seats and shade for the general public. (if you silly enough to pay 150 to sit in the sun and rain in premium, then you are beyond help).

2. Have the RAAF coordinate the display.

3. Bring back camping on site.

4. Get someone who knows their a/c to do the commentary, and have a live mic in each cockpit and broadcast every pilots messages. Stick the ATC on the PA, and ditch the dreadful music.

5. Get the Red Arrows, Frecce Tricolori or Blue Angels and Fat Albert.

6. Work constructively with private collectors with the best interests of the PUBLIC in mind.

7. Have some lucky draws for flights on the day.

8. Get some MiGs, Typhoons, Harriers, Grypens etc.

9. Introduce some premium spotters tickets so those who want to can take decent pics. Make a decent DVD and since we cant take decent photos, release some on a disc and make them free to ticket holders

10. Get rid of half of the Volunteers and make the trade days public days after lunch, with a flying display from 12-6.

Id pay whatever it ended up costing if we could have some of the a/c that are stock standard elsewhere.

What would you like to see in an ideal world?

Id like a U.S. Carrier Group to sit off the west coast and give us a mass flypast!

[Peter Fanelli]

Hold it somewhere else.

[flog]

mickk - Put up or shut up.

What are you going to do about getting all that done?

edit: just re-read that and it sounded a bit nasty - what I mean to say is posts on a website do not an airshow make, how are you (or any of us) going to help?

[Cessna Capt]

Don't open all the trade days to public. Last thing serrious business folks need is the public sniffing around the stands and exhibits while people are trying to do serrious and sometimes sensitive business.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Dick Smith for Ringmaster! Happy Birthday!

[VH-XXX]

Oh, add yet another one to the list that believes that all air traffic movements are coordinated by Air Traffic Control.

Sorry but there will be a stunning silence on the airwaves if you tried to route traffic to the PA's ! Avalon doesn't have ATC and never has for the airshow. Avalon runs on the Airshow time system where everyone has their own time slot. The only broadcast by the ringmaster is "Avalon Airshow time is + 2 minutes" etc. That way, nobody from the airshow can be held responsible when an F111 runs up the rear end of a bug smasher.

Why on earth would you want the RAAF running the display? You may as well ask CASA to do it!

Oh and shade? How are you going to watch the aircraft with a roof over your head? The shaded area is the trade tent, it's where everyone went when it rained.


From my visit:

- Shorten the length of the airshow; even the exhibitors were bored after a couple of days. You'll pack more into it in a shorter timeframe and it will be more entertaining.

- Have it a few weeks sooner when the weather is a bit kinder

- Have the night show on Saturday night, more likely to get greater numbers. Nobody wants to finish work at 4-5pm, drive there, pay $50 to get in, watch it for a couple of hours and drive home again

- Force trade exhibitors in the trade tent to remain open for the whole show (goes with the reduced timeframe for the event) it's more interesting

- Something different like the Harrier would be good or the VTOL JSF or perhaps an Osprey

- Camping onsite for aircraft exhibitors would be good too (as noted earlier)

- Ditch the stands selling :mad: Pandora beads, this is an airshow, harden up!

- More food choice at a reduced price. $4 for a half cooked bucket of chips is a joke; it's Avalon, not Tullamarine international!

- $50 for a souvenir shirt is TOO expensive. Make less of them and if you sell out then that's great.

- $10 for parking is a joke, we're already paying $50 to get in, each!

PS - Note for Qantas, why bring the A380 if we can't look in it? But you let people in the downstairs only of the 744. VB same for you guys with your 777, who cares about a 777 just sitting there with a flagged fence around it

[bentleg]

10. Get rid of half of the Volunteers


And use paid staff instead? The mind boggles at what that would do to to the admission charge!

Seems to have no idea of the extent of the contribution made by volunteers to the airshow.

[PyroTek]

VB same for you guys with your 777, who cares about a 777 just sitting there with a flagged fence around it

XXX, It was open on Friday, when it was dry.
The condition of entry was "No Shoes allowed to be worn inside the aircraft"

They clearly didn't want to risk the interior with the wet weather.

[feetonthedash]

Move the airshow to Queensland...Avalon is a rocky dust bowl!

[Masif Eego]

Last thing serrious business folks need is the public sniffing around the stands and exhibits while people are trying to do serrious and sometimes sensitive business.

Now this is one of the funniest posts I've read on here.

[zube]

How about advertising the aircraft to be allegedly showing up to fly, and stick to it.

Remember the year the SR71 was "coming." A good laugh. And what happened to the "final" F111 display with the good old dump and burn. I didn't see the reason for its cancellation as I was in deepest Tasmania that weekend, with no media coverage of the event.

It's not their fault that Victoria's drought put on an inch of rain, but I can only imagine the havoc it caused.

They aint getting my money.

[VH-XXX]

Feet on the dash, you were obviuosly not around when the Wide Bay airshow was cancelled due to terrential rain a few years back.

So Pyro, was it any good? Am heading to LA on it shortly in Business Class.

[feetonthedash]

VH-XXX at least we have real beer in Queensland.
Again Avalon is a dust bowl and full of Victorians!

[sms777]

I have not heard that for years. In NSW we call them Mexicans for obvious reasons :E

[Cessna Capt]

Now this is one of the funniest posts I've read on here

Whats so funny about my post. From experience of doing business at air and trade shows all over the world the last thing needed on trade days is more general public. Most of the serrious individuals involved with exhibiting make themselves scarce on the public days and thats a fact.

[bentleg]

Avalon doesn't have ATC and never has for the airshow


Avalon had ATC for the airshow just past and it operates now. YMAV NOTAM -


CTR/CTA CLASS C AIRSPACE AND TOWER ACT 2000-0900 DAILY
FROM 03 160113 TO 04 040900


I agree there was no ATC during prior airshows.

[flypilotboy]

Oh, add yet another one to the list that believes that all air traffic movements are coordinated by Air Traffic Control.


Avalon Tower was active during the show as was Apron control on 120.5 and 123.9 (I think) and gave a very good indication of what was or in a lot of cases was not going to happen next. Wouldn't go to the show without my radio so I don't need it over the PA.

MickK, I think you are a bit of a dreamer. Although, I do agree with some of your suggestions. The trade days are there for a reason, to keep the general public out! As someone correctly pointed out it is so that those that have a serious interest in aviation can talk seriously to suppliers / dealers without having to deal with the arm chair experts and knobs that attend on the public days. It is a trade show then an airshow!

As for the spotters not being able to get a good shot and wanting their own area well I can't say on here what I think of most spotters :mad:(I said most for a reason, not all).

I think the organisers need to have a look at other airshows around the world and learn from them which I am sure they already do.

[Jabawocky]

Victorians!
I have not heard that for years. In NSW we call them Mexicans for obvious reasons :E


And guess what....... thats what we up here in Gods country call all you southerners! :}

You know the only good thing about NSW is that it seperates Qld from Victoria :E

J:ok:

[HarleyD]

feetonthedash says "at least we have real beer here in queensland"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....small pause to get breath back..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,..

wipes tears of laughter from eyes...HAHAHAHAHAHA

Real beer in queensland, I think not, but I do recall seeing plenty of queens up there, snigger snigger.

Will the Wide Bay International Airshow will top the 160,000 attendance that the Avalon Mud/dust/rain/wind bowl airshow managed?

I just got back from an 8 day sentence there, and while it wasn't the greatest air display event for the punters I would say that a LOT of business was done there that had little or nothing to do with ailerons falling off jelly beans or jet powered blitz trucks. This is a true international airshow and is not merely for the spotters to get some extra tail numbers in their books. An event the size of this possibly might work in Sydney (Richmond perhaps) but as for anywhere else forget it. ( I have been to a fair few shows around the region and this one is world class, but with plenty of minor (usually) issues. ATC was just fine during the displays and on the apron, the tarmac crew was extremely efficient and helpful. It was an utterly crap time weather wise but very successful business wise.

HD

[Spodman]

Sorry but there will be a stunning silence on the airwaves if you tried to route traffic to the PA's ! Avalon doesn't have ATC and never has for the airshow. Avalon runs on the Airshow time system where everyone has their own time slot. The only broadcast by the ringmaster is "Avalon Airshow time is + 2 minutes" etc. That way, nobody from the airshow can be held responsible when an F111 runs up the rear end of a bug smasher.As FPB said, complete bollocks XXX. ATC ran the first airshow, hopeless mess. Since then has been run, very hands on, with a ringmaster and licenced CAGRO doing things that were somewhat, but not entirely, ATC-like. This year used Airservices ATC with very fetching pink shirts on, and marked my last involvement in the process. Considering the weather, it went very well.

Don't necessarily disagree with any of the items on mick's list, don't think much of it will be achievable. Why do you care how many volunteers are there? I understand the contract between ASA and ASDU has now finished, maybe you will get your wish on the RAAF. Effect of such a change? No idea...

[I16]

@ 28% advantage in the dollar then Wanaka in 12 months has to be an option ........ we are going :ok:

It has been different and much better than Avalon for years and you can fly in :cool:

[aulglarse]

A few requests:
1) Provide courtesy shuttle to the front ticket office/entrance for patrons parked 20-30min walk away;

2)have a general admission 3 day pass ( presold tickets generating more cashflow):ok:

3)more shelter 'spots' available with seats;

4)more toilets!! :sad: ; AND

5)if point (2) won't work then sell the 3 day gold pass at an affordable price-they went for $160 on Friday due to poor sales and were conveniently sold-out by late friday arvo.:D

[HarleyD]

aulglarse, well done, at last some constructive criticism, or at least comments that could well help the show improve. I agree withh all your points completely.

Avalon may not be the best, but it's the biggest and best we've got, at least for the time being.

As for the RAAF running the show, ahem, this would not in any way garantee an improvement I can asssure you. The best military run airshow I have come across was AeroIndia, run by the IAF in a highly professional manner, but encumbered by masses of tedious paperwork at the start and finish of the event, and boy, if they had some of those Sukhoi's and Mig 35's at Avalon I bet there would be fewer complaints, Ricardo does a great job in the super hornet, but it is nice to see the other side of the fence as well.

HD

[Pedota]

My own approach these days is to not go anywhere near the airshow itself . . . I have done it all from full on corporate packages to being one of Joe Public.

Instead I now park somewhere near the intersection of the Old Melbourne Road and Beach Road at about the time of one the flying displays with my Icom transceiver tuned to the ‘Ringmaster’ and enjoy the show from the comfort of my own (convertible) car – and my own lunch and refreshments.

That way I miss the crowds and the ‘babble’ of the commentators on the PA . . . and the Ringmaster’s no nonsense style is always impressive. Most years I end up with a crowd around my car (or radio) as they too like to hear what is really happening.

Cheers

Pedota

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Jeff Watson as announcer
Make peace with Warbirds movment
Use an aerodrome with the display line down sun from the crowd line for the main part of the show.
Let the military set up their own pyro displays...(They do do a better job! I mean who else is going to spend the time wiring 100m strings of detonators on delays for multiple runs of simulated ground attacks)
Charge a reasonable entry fee
Have a bit of flair in setting up conscessions. Food area including somewhere to sit and eat the food you just charged a small ransom for. Bit of shade/shelter included.
Hold out the olive branch to the regional AirForces.
The Russians have aircraft they want to sell and demonstrate too
Sounds a small thing but soooo simple. If operationally possible, get a grader in a couple of months prior to first show and grade the spectator area so there is an even grade slope toward the movment area. The spectators will love it! 1m in 100m fall would be sufficient

And lastly GET RID OF THE INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC...sounds like a medal presenation at the Olympics.

[VH-XXX]

I'm not too sure about the RAAF running the show. The show is already seemingly the biggest recruiting drive of the year for the defence forces. If it's not insprirational defence type music, it's Captain Bloggs from the Airforce harping on the PA about going and visiting the defence recruiting tent.

[feetonthedash]

Why not move the airshow to Townsville!
Big runway,half the military aircraft are already there and you could commute from CNS!......PERFECT

[BULLDOG 248]

I remember going to a Geelong Airshow at Grovedale around 15 years ago in the year between the Avalon Airshow, with a huge crowd rolling up and ENJOYING just an average line-up of GA and Warbirds aircraft with no jets.

What made it so successful was:

-There were no gaps between acts

-Entry prices were reasonable

-You could walk around static aircraft

-People flying in could camp under there wing

-Think they had a Band playing Fri+Sat night and the aero club was still full on Sunday night

-Cheap joy-flight in Heli/Fixed wing before and after show

-Large hangar had plenty of seats to get out of the weather and rest.


I lived in Geelong at the time and remember reading "letters to the editor" in the local rag the next week. All who went THOUGHLY ENJOYED and some made remarks to Airshows Downunder then to "TAKE A LEAF OUT OF GROVEDALES BOOK" to improve their own show.
15 years later.....Whats changed???????????????????????
http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=4796818) http://static.pprune.org/images/misc/progress.gif

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day 'Spod'.....

Re - 'very fetching pink shirts on, and marked my last involvement in the process.'

- Not 'retiring' are U ?? :eek:

- You'd look looovly in a pink shirt......:p

Cheers:ok::ok:

[VH-XXX]

Bairnsdale also run an airshow and it's every 5 years. Run by Rotary and Lions combined. For the area it's BIG, but probably due to the fact that it's only every 5 years so they manage to draw big crowds. It was the flying display that made Bairnsdale good, a bit of action and not the norm like firefighters rapelling from a chopper, chopper dropping a car, the stolen aircraft routine (with police arresting the culprit), roulettes, military choppers, Catalina, crop dusters, aerochutes, Pip racing a supercar down the runway rip, the B52, John Travolta sanctioning the event, local spirit and riviera weather.

[207Wannabe]

How about these three ideas for the organisers in 2011?

1. More walkways between the punters viewing area to the food stands behind all the corporate tents. (By the time I'd jostled with the crowd, the 4 overpriced hotdogs and coffees were cold when my mates finally received them :ugh:)

2. Some of the critical walkways would benefit from some kind of plastic matting laid down to avoid them turning into mud pits if it does get wet

3. It's impossible for us down here in Australia to compete with the big bangers in Europe. However, is it not feasible to get at least one Mig 29 or Harrier or something different to previous years as a show highlight? Yeah the Bone was different and good, it made lots of noise but it is still “God bless ‘em” :D. And on the other hand, some stuff we are normally treated to was completely absent! What happened to all of Australia’s Warbirds? Luckily I went on Saturday when the P51 was able to fly. No Boomerang, Spitfire, Kittyhawk, Sea Fury or Vampire :confused:? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?

It was nice to see Qantas and the shiny new A380 depart. It looked great. Good enough to warrant a second pass:{
Enough whinging for now. Looking forward to 2011 :}

[7mile]

No Boomerang, Spitfire, Kittyhawk, Sea Fury or Vampire http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?

I believe there is a difference of opinion between the Avalon people and the Temora people regarding 'appearance money' and other similar matters.

[Teal]

'appearance money'Not only would be good for the airshow organisers to pay a bit more for different/new aircraft, but also perhaps pay a bit more to organisations like HARS who then wouldn't need to gouge the pubic for an extra $10 'donation' per head to look at their Connie.

[Philthy]

However, is it not feasible to get at least one Mig 29 or Harrier or something different to previous years as a show highlight?

Mate, every year they ask. Airshows Downunder can't control foreign mil - they get what they get. Be thankful for it.

F111 cancelled on Sunday (B1 & other acts too) due XW out of limits on wet runway. Hardly within the control of Airshows Downunder. Runway dried out by the time the F18s went on.

Feet on the dash, you were obviuosly not around when the Wide Bay airshow was cancelled due to terrential rain a few years back.


Wide Bay never cancelled due to weather.

I remember going to a Geelong Airshow at Grovedale around 15 years ago...

Yeah? How many B1s did they have there? A380s or Jumbos? I've been to plenty of airshows, some better, some not. They're all different. You don't go to Grovedale to see the heavy metal and you don't go to Avalon to see the stuff you can see at Grovedale.

- Have it a few weeks sooner when the weather is a bit kinder


Show dates were forced to move thanks to Melbourne F1 taking priority.

Was about time someone did this at Avalon...

Aircraft & Aerospace has been putting out a show daily since at least '95.

Did anyone enjoy that Jelly Belly thing?

Personally, I thought it was a bloody good demonstration of precision flying.

Did that new helo we just bought fly? NH90 is it?

No and yes, in that order.

How can one get a gig?

Put your money where your mouth is and sign up as a volunteer for 2011.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Just some context to many of the constructive and not-so-contrcutive comments so far...

* Warbirds - unfortunately Airshows and Temora are in dispute over who pays for what at Avalon, so until that's resolved, there'll be no Temora aircraft present. let's hope they can come to terms for 2011...

* Foreign mil aircraft - what's in it for them to bring a Harrier, MiG-29, Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter or anything else here? there are no active sales campaigns here or anywhere near here, so neither a foreign military or a manufacturer is going to spend the millions to bring them. Kudos to Boeing for bringing two Supers and the Omega KDC-10 here via Denmark and India, especially as they've already sold the jet to us, and to the USAF for bringing the Bones and C-5. Pity the F-22s currently based on Guam or at Kadena couldn't make the hop... :(

* The weather - you're kidding right? It's Melbourne! I actually thought the airshow site stood up quite well to the weather considering there was NO grass of any consequence to hold the ground together once the wet stuff started falling. Sure, there was a bit of mud on some of the more heavily trafficked paths, but in general the amount of gravel that had been put down soaked alot of it up, and the carparks were remarkably dry. :ok:

* Non aviation related stalls - hey, it's a large group of people in a small area. If you don't want to buy Pandora, keep walking past! :rolleyes:

* The flying - ok, it was a shame the Pig got canned on Sunday, but it is an airshow after all and, for a non-essential mission, the weather was out of limits. I thought Friday night was quite effective with the low cloud, especially the F-111's final pass. It would've been great to see Connie fly and to see the Hornets bottom out on their strafing runs, but kudos to HARS for the Connie fast taxis - made for a great time exposure shot from the Boeing chalet! Ricardo and Acko were excellent - I never get tired of seeing them make their jets dance! :eek::ok:

* The Commentary - I thought Peter Meakin did a fine job - it was most of the sidekick commentators who stuffed it up. Dave Prosser does know his stuff, and the RAAF guys who accompanied the Hornet displays did well too. The yanks were, as usual, over the top, and the Jelly Belly guy...well...:yuk: That said, I agree Jeff Watson would be great as well!

* The Trade Show - the main event of the show really! I thought it was pretty good all things considering - made some new and renewed some old contacts, and got some good networking done. Most thought that, although numbers were down, the quality of displays, customers and defence people was still there. I liked the three smaller halls with most of the conference and meeting rooms inside, instead of the two larger ones.

Oh, and top marks to the Australian Aviation team for the new Show Daily magazine thingy they did - must've been a big effort on their part and a quality product as a result!

Overall, not bad considering. I'd give the show a 6.5/10. :ok:

[Disco Stu]

Whilst I didn't make it to Avalon this year I have spoken to enough sensible people to understand that apart from a few small hiccups, the Trade days went off pretty much as planned. I do understand however that there were a few difficulties with the Public Days.

This being a 'professional" aviators forum I would have thought that there would have been a focus on the trade component of the show rather than the oh argh flying stuff. That stuff is for the easily impressed "Joe Public" who knows no better!

Yes there will always be a few noshows for any number of reasons, Victorian weather is a case in point.

Fortunately there will also be those people that actually quietly contribute to the success of the whole execise.

Philthy, Peter Meakin and Dave Prosser are a few of those long time contributors. Without the likes of these 3 there would be no Avalon.

Thanks fella's.:ok::ok:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I believe there is a difference of opinion between the Avalon people and the Temora people regarding 'appearance money' and other similar matters.

Yeah, I would have taken the V-tail down - but I doubt they would have paid my appearance fee! :suspect:

Save up all your pennies and go to Oshkosh - then you'll never have to bother with another airshow!

Dr :8

[VH-XXX]

Philthy you musn't be old enough to remember the cancellation of the Queensland International Airshow. I was ready in front of the TV to watch it when it was cancelled due to rain.

[ReverseFlight]

I did not attend the show this year because at the last show I was quite shocked by the length of the public vehicular traffic jam trying to get in when the show opens in the morning and get out when the show closes at the end of the day. Not everyone is privileged enough to have their own private air transport, you know.

[Walrus 7]

I'm not so sure that appearance money would get the Temora team there anyway, although for sure that would be an issue. Having spoken to a few people within the THFC since the last Avalon, there are other issues involved, being:

1. The aircraft won't be based on hard stand. Note even the Southern Knights operated from Pt Cook for the weekend.

2. Avalon is not seen as supporting the warbird movement in anyway. TAM is always ready to support shows that are seen to contribute to historic aviation.

3. TAM wants people to come to Temora to see the planes, not the other way around. Exceptions are made for shows that are seen to be in the interests of historic aviation: Albury, WOI, Pt Cook.

And you can throw a lot of the private owners in with them as well. Jeff and Jim did a great job on the weekend, although Jeff had to abort his Sunday routine. But in the past, there have been so many private warbirds that are still around, but we don't see any more: TBM, Hunter (grounded?), P-40, T-28, Vampire, Strikemaster, Iskras. Lets see how many we can remember.

Avalon is Australia's only commercial show, and the warbird owners shouldn't be expected to subsidise that with their own money they way they do for the charity shows. Judy Pay once told me it cost her $10000 to send the Mustang and SNJ away to an air show. For that her return was fuel money, accommodation and an excuse to fly her planes. Why should they kick that money into the coffers of ASDU, when they know very little of it will be spent on developing aviation?

One other suggestion for Avalon: when the weather is expected to be a 40 kt cross wind, the night before move to Point Cook all the aircraft that will be flying the following day. Runway 22 would have allowed all the flying displays to go ahead. This is the reason why the Trappett Mustang couldn't fly but the RAAFM one did. The Pig and the Connie would probably all have flown on the Sunday if that runway had been available to them. Not so sure that anything could have been done for the B1-B though.

Walrus

[IcePaq]

Invite a multiplayer combat flight sim company like Warbirds or Aces High to set up a few machines logged into existing arenas that exist full of people just waiting to shoot you down.

I would love to see this at an airshow.

It would be beneficial to both the show and the flight sim operator.

I've been doing it since 1995 or so and haven't stopped yet.

Most offer a month free but there are "free arenas" run in countries out of reach from patent and copywright enforcement if you desire to spend more time getting good before heading to the big time of the pay arenas.

The advantage of the pay arenas is that they are policed against hacks and cheaters as well as hosting very realistic historic scenarios with sometimes hundreds of other people in the air with you.

You won't see planes moving like they are agent smith in the matrix movies in the pay arenas but it is relatively common in the free ones.

The physics models are great, the damage models are great, and the action is addictive.

Free Massively Multiplayer Flight Combat Simulator and Tank Combat Simulator (http://www.totalsims.com/)

Welcome to Aces High II (http://www2.hitechcreations.com/frindex.html)

If any dare show up there, I will gladly give your airframe the pepperidge I so love to dish out.

No, I don't work for these guys.........I manage an automotive ECU/PCM rebuild facility.

[VH-XXX]

I put this on Youtube JUST for you guys coz Prune is so good.

YouTube - JetPackMan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxk8yZqMGfE)

Taken at Avalon on the Sunday with a 20 knot wind blowing towards the camera.

My first ever YouTube video!

[Mick.B]

Bigest waste of money Airshows downunder has ever spent to get an act out since Manfred Radius.

[Mr & Mrs Rocketboots]

We crossed the ditch as first-timers to the Avalon airshow. Fortunately for us, we were lucky enough to be hosted in one of the corporate chalets so didn't end up in the mud pool on the Saturday. It was a shame the weather didn't cooperate, but that's part of the joy of outdoor events! It did make the pyro and fireworks display at the night show very effective tho!

Attended the Thursday trade day, Friday night show and all day Saturday. Parking and traffic movement was relatively well organised on those days. Thought the volunteers did well, we found most of them friendly and eager to help.

There were some displays that we enjoyed very much, but there were also some irritations that left us feeling a little bit disappointed.

Bouquets:

Did anyone enjoy that Jelly Belly thing?Personally, I thought it was a bloody good demonstration of precision flying. And so did we. Thanks Kent P, really enjoyed it, thought the commentary was amusing and apt. Shame we didn't get to see the landing on the RV, darn those crosswinds.
C17 and B757 - gotta love big aircraft being thrown around close to the ground.
Super Connie - indeed! Beautiful to watch and listen to.
B1B - a bit disappointing in that each pass was just straight down the runway about 15 mins apart. Wx was probably a concern. Lots of noise and novelty factor for Kiwis to enjoy.
FA18 Super Hornet - very slick.
Super Salto jet-powered glider - smooth performance, wingtip contrails just added to the atmosphere.
Dr-107 and Su26 aerobatics.
FA18 formation. Brickbats:

Get someone who knows their a/c to do the commentaryPlease, oh please do so. Was not impressed.:yuk:


And lastly GET RID OF THE INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC...sounds like a medal presenation at the Olympics.Agreed. The music – was annoying and too loud. Some of us want to hear the aircraft (and each other).
No matter who does the coordinating, and I can appreciate that the weather changed the programme around, surely the far too many long gaps could be avoided. My brother has been to several of the Avalon shows and tells me that this is normal. I also have experience as a display coordinator at a relatively big airshow over here, and dead air for more than a minute is something we work hard to avoid. One year we had a tongue-in-cheek complaint that we didn't leave any gaps for people to visit the loo! Even with scheduled airline movements, it is possible to keep it a lot tighter than it was. So final comments to the organisers - tighten up the programme and avoid those too long gaps, improve (or replace) the commentary team, more variety on the programme i.e. GA and Warbirds. Please.

[HarleyD]

Airshow commentary:

I have been involved at close to 20 air displays (none of them Avalon) as Airshow coordinator and/or organizer and even at one as commentary.

One of the most complained about issues about Avalon and almost every other display that I have been to and/or participated in is commentary, and it is impossible to satisfy all the people all the time I can assure you. I would ask all those who are complaining on this forum to please articulate your problem with the announcer(s). did they have too many facts? Were they completely ignorant of what aircraft was actually flying? What? Who do you suggest could do it better? Maybe you could contact the organizers with your own CV for the next event and we can all hear how it is done properly.

The announcer team at Avalon consisted of several well informed and experienced people, some of whom are visitors /members of this site, and I am sure that they would be interested to know WHY you think they are so cr@p!

I totally agree with the sentiment regarding the ‘inspirational’ (vomit) music and the volume that it was blasted out at. I was standing chatting to an exhibitor on a nearby stand and we were conversing quite normally, right near a PA tower that was at a quite acceptable volume level. I remarked on this and how nice it was that someone knew how to set volume levels acceptably. My friend replied that it had been at force 11 before the rain came and some electrical problem had muted it back to a reasonable volume. Someone came and fixed it later.

The other aspect of commentary that sh!ts me is the ‘official US Pacific Air Forces (how many do they need?) announcer’ who, with the slickest USA AM Radio announcer style, proceeds to bombard us with pointless facts and endless superlatives about the F16 or the C17 or some other boring bit of kit that has “more power than the entire grid of the Indy 500” or is 6 football fields long, or burns the equivalent of 27 olimpic swimming pools of jet fuel every 3 seconds. I am sooo over that stuff.

I am not a display announcer, I do not work for ASDU, or have any association other than attending the event, but I have been involved in the air display scene for 25 years and am interested to know why the Avalon announcers in particular, and announcers in general p!ss so many ‘enthusiasts’ off when the general (admission paying) public think they are informative and entertaining.

HD

[Walrus 7]

HD,

I think you answered your own question in the last paragraph. The paying public don't know any better. The aviation enthusiasts will leap on every little mistake because they know what's right and wrong ... and love to point it out. All of the following are gems I can remember from Avalon over the years (paraphrased).

"Jim Wickham's Yak-9 is fitted with a Curtiss engine" (It's an Allison)
"Let's watch the four-engined B-52 do it's flypast" (How many engines?)
"Chuck Yeager's X-1 Glamorous Jeannie ..." (Glamorous Glennis)

And I'm sure other people have others. They are simple errors that happen in the course of commentating. If you asked those people away from the mics, they would probably give you the right answer and may not have even known they made a mistake. It's just that enthusiasts are so particular and ready to heap scorn on any error.

Anyone who took over with the expectations that they would be perfect is kidding themselves. They'd just make different errors ... and we'd all laugh at them.

Walrus

[mickk]

First of all I would say it is a visual event, its not bloody radio, no need to prattle on endlessly.

Secondly, some announcers sound like their only experience in public announcing is calling the bingo on thursday nights. One script, one announcer. No excuse for not checking the accuracy of one script. Everyone seems to want to read the rubbish they have written themselves, it ends up a dogs breakfast.

With regards to volume, it seems as though some fool has decided that the PA must be able to be heard above the loudest of jet engines, which is just stupidity.

Finally the Yanks. Well if we had as much as they had I spose we would brag too. The Yanks spend more on defense media than our overall defense budget. Their commentary is part of the deal, we are stuck with it, no matter how much it makes us cringe.

[Charlie1080]

stop selling beer for bloody 7 bucks a pop. rediculous. nuff said

Charlie

[soseg]

1. Dont play the Flight Simulator 10 theme song through the speakers for hours on end... it gets annoying

majority of people go to see bang for the buck... they want military jets going fast and loud, and big passenger / cargo planes going low over the RW.

Change it up a little, I've been to the last 4 airshows (not a lot) but its all been the same, in fact this year there was no F15 which was lame.

Bring in some russian jets. I'm guessing the yanks and possibly others may not be a fan of this idea? "Oh no what if our public prefers old communist technology?!?!" who cares... bring em in, I'd love to see some competition and difference no matter who is better or worse.

More big planes. The Hercs, C17s etc are awesome, and the Lancer this year was absolutely awesome minus the fact it didnt fly over enough. Get some passenger jets do fly overs - a 747, a380... (I know its not that easy to get an airline to stick an a/c into the show as they have flights to run... but I'm sure theres a way, its all done at Euro/US airshows...)

I wont be coming next time around unless someone pays for my ticket or unless theres major changes. I'm just happy I didnt have an urge to urinate for the whole 10hours + I was there this year, so I kept my feet dry and out of those horrible urinals!

[dragchute]

10. Get rid of half of the Volunteers and make the trade days public days after lunch, with a flying display from 12-6.

The volunteers were a little over enthusiastic but I though they did a good job - don't knock 'em.

Don't interfere with the trade days. Although I glimpsed parts of the flying display, the trade days provide the opportunity to visit a lot of manufacturers and suppliers grouped in a small area. If the event is to be overpopulated by 'joe public' on trade days then I'm sure a lot of potential buyers will not spend the money to attend for business purposes. I certainly wouldn't bother as the two days I was allocated were insufficient to take in all the displays, particularly in the pavilions.

Found the chalet's noisy during the afternoon displays but I guess you live with that ... just need more time with company reps to pick up the gist!

2. Have the RAAF coordinate the display.

What? - introduce more red tape and risk management!

[runway16]

Bring back the Russians!

Why? They have not paid their fuel bill from their last visit.
As for their flying it was just plain dangerous. History would show that you do not throw big aircraft around at low level.

Russian fighters here in Australia on display. Why? They Ruskies are aware that they are unlikely to get an ADF order for their latest MiG or SU so why expend all those $$$ to get to and from Orrstralia (where is that?) for no return.

The people who display aircraft at Avalon do not do it for the benefit of plane spotters who comprise probably less than 5% of the audience.