The cap & the uniform & the pride

[Carpe Diem]

In my former company all instructors, half of the captains and a few proud copilots did wear the cap. :rolleyes:
In my new company there are only a few ... :)
I think that those few guys are proud of them self. I do understand and respect that. But doesn't it look a little old fashioned ?
Do we get more respect with the cap ? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[Captain Airclues]

If we don't have a cap, where do we keep the epaulettes, car keys, ID card and lose change?

Airclues

[Rainbow Warrior]

Caps? Uniforms? Pride? I thought I'd stumbled upon an entirely different thread!

[Streamline]

Do we get more respect without the cap?

I used to write my passport number in my cap.

After a long tiring flight you could just drop your head on the reception desk of the hotel and all data needed to fill in the form were readily available....even your name if it got that bad…..


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Smooth Trimmer

[fifthcolumns]

I can never understand why I see pilots
walking across the airport, flight case
in one hand, overnight bag in the other
and cap under the ARMPIT.

Wear the bloody thing otherwise it's
excess baggage.

[redsnail]

Airclues, agreed!! :)
(I look around my room and realise that the cap is essential for doing that. I will clean it up one day) :)

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reddo
A Feral Animal.

[Carpe Diem]

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gifThank for your tip Captain Airclues. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

I think that to wear a cap shows the idea of the pilot about himself:

-with a cap = still love his job :)
- no cap = flying for money or no choice to change the job anymore ! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[con-pilot]

Or, maybe like me they just hate to wear hats of any kind.

[Warlock2000]

TIES?...

What about ties in summer. I can understand wearing a full uniform (jacket, tie, cap etc) when one has to walk through airport terminals and is in the public eye. But to wear all this cr@p when doing regional multi sector flights and departing from briefing to the aircraft on a crewbus with the public nowhere in sight is crazy. Who you gonna impress, the Capt/FO ? Certainly not the cabin crew, engineers, flight dispatchers, refuelers, bagage handlers and cleaners!

How about the option of a open neck shirt? Especially in the warmer climates.

[Deadleg]

If it is your uniform, then wear it with pride !
We (A regional) can leave jackets in the crew room if it is warm. Never found my hat too hot, but ties can get a bit that way on the ground in a cockpit before APU/engine start.
Footballers say "If you can't be a footballer, at least try to look like one ! "
Remember attitude + attitude (aircrafts + pilots) make the flight !

[CaptainSquelch]

CD,
Now you really threw me into an identity crisis. I still love my job (after twenty years) I fly for the money (Twenty years of lifstyle building!) and with an economy boom like we have here I can find another job any day. Still I detest the cap, the jacket, the tie and the socks. What am I to do? Please help me find a suitable identity!

Deadleg,
The sunglasses make somebody look like a pilot not the suit. So far nobody complained about these!



[This message has been edited by CaptainSquelch (edited 20 September 2000).]

[Carpe Diem]

Capt Squelsh
Sorry but for me you seem nothing to prove to yourself or anybody, so nothing to show.
Stay like you are : the right man at the right place.

The forum was more oriented to those very young pilot who are so proud of themself to becamme a pilot. But as we all know this has nothing to do with capability but more a question of luck !

CD

[Deadleg]

CS do you wear white gloves as well as your sunglasses?
I have had flyng jobs where the uniform was shorts and shirt no tie. My point is that if this is what your company have for a uniform then wear it properly, after all they do provide it and your job!

[HugMonster]

The only time my uniform didn't include a tie was when I was working in the Caribbean. White short-sleeved shirt, black (long) trousers and black shoes. No jacket (thank God) and no hat either.

Otherwise, I'm happy to wear whatever the company decides is uniform. They provide it, they pay me to wear it, and I'll wear it with pride, and try my best to keep it looking good.

It helps passengers' confidence if the drivers (when they see them) look the part - look professional, not like escapees from a low-budget barnstorming movie.

[fly4fud]

my question is: do you have to wear your cap.
Does it say so in your contract?

- YES. Then the right attitude is to wear it (what old fashioned thinking :) ). You have signed a contract and you can only expect the other side to abide to it if you do the same. Then you might want to show your support to the cabin crew. They have to wear their whole uniform, no if and maybe or don't feel like. Also, if you don't wear part of your uniform despite your obligation, who says you will not cut corners in other parts of your daily operation?

- NO. Wearing a cap as an aviator is part of the image. Aviation has taken much from the navy and, by exercing this profession you also accept to represent a whole group of people. Wearing a hat will reinforce the observer's idea of a serious and professional attitude. How in hell can you work for an airline and ask for/get high/er wages and at the same time walk around looking like I don't know what?


P.S. Yes, I'am a proud pilot and I had to earn those wings, they were not just offered to me :)

[Lucifer]

It's a uniform, so the idea is to wear it to be identified as a group. Personally, I don't mind the cap, but wear it only outside. Nobody should be wearing hats inside really: you look a pratt.

[alt sel]

How can you hope to command a life boat without a hat???? :)

- Also, in the wind - stops hair from blowing around........hat may blow away though......
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Puritan]

We don't have hats as part of our uniform (thank gawd) and I don't think it makes us any the more shabby or corner cutting, coz we can do all of that whether we have a hat or not!

Best has got to be SouthWest Airlines, I believe they're issued with A1/A2 style leather jackets.... nice !

[MileHi]

If it all goes about uniform, and getting paid to wear it, why don't airlines design a uniform that is practical. I can count on one hand the number of pilots that actually wear their ties whilst in the cockpit, and I don't know ANYONE who wears the cap.

A neat professional design does not mean caps and ties......

We're in the 2000's, lets get out of the 1800's.

[keep_pushing]

This thread, or part of it at least has been overtaken by circumstances. My employer insists that the cap is worn as part of the uniform – but this stipulation only applies to male pilots. Our female colleagues do not have to wear headgear. The law changed earlier this year with the effect that this policy is now considered discriminatory and hence unlawful. This may seem trivial to most (and in the grand scheme of things it is) but for those of us who hate headgear it is a relief. I can now leave my cap at home with impunity.

[kbf1]

Looking through this thread I suspect all of you who have contributed so far have come up through the civilian route. As a serving army officer I am expected to wear either a cap or a beret depending on the type of uniform I am in at all times except when inside a building. Even then, there are circumstances when I still have to wear it.

As has been pointed out, aviation owes a lot to both merchant and military maritime operations. The uniform looks very similar to that of a deck officer from a merchant fleet. When these uniforms were designed gentlemen wore hats as a matter of course, and one was not considered properly attired unless wearing a hat of some order. This was true even of blue-collar workers. This has carried on into the uniforms of the present day.

Now for my humble opinion. Hats do complete the uniform, in fact that is what distinguishes a pilot from any other man wearing a dark double-breasted suit. The bars worn on the sleve are not always as high-profile as the Navy and so the hat adds a mark of distinction. There is also the issue of public perception. I believe the public expect to see a professional pilot look like a professional pilot, jacket, tie, hat and all. You can argue until you are blue in the face that as a professional you are just as capable of doing the job regardless of what you were. This may be true, however in the eye of the public who fly your airline they expect that a job with such immense responsibility and learning should carry with it the apparrel of authority and rank. Dumbing down dress can only serve to lower the impression that a pilot is no better trained or professional than a sheet metal worker who tips up to his workshop in jeans and trainers. It is the same for officers in the services. No matter how smart my soldiers look, I have to look smarter.


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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!

[This message has been edited by kbf1 (edited 25 September 2000).]

[Streamline]

I agree with kbf1,

But once I am on the deck even the tie goes off.

On a long haul flight I have even seen guy's change and put on a looser outfit altogether.

As a finisher I would like to state that what you see is not always what you get we all know that.

I heard there was an airline who considered that the PPC would be done in uniform what about that ?


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Smooth Trimmer

[MileHi]

Its the fact that I was subjected to wear a hat as a military officer for 8 years that I hate it so much now. We are in the 21 century for crying out loud, anyone who believes that a gentleman in not properly dressed unless he has a hat on his head lives in the dark ages!

Make a uniform, neat, smart and practical!

[Old King Coal]

So I suppose that the folks at SouthWest - a huge operator by any standing - have got it wrong when their uniform includes a leather jacket and NO hat (baseball cap optional, I believe).

Now I wear BA navy blue with silver stripes, and to be honest I wish I was in SouthWest's, coz inspite of a looking shabby (in some folks eyes) their airline actually makes money - lots of money - which must surely disprove the idea that the pax respect the uniform ( or perhaps they do ! )

Do you know, I'll bet that SouthWests leather jacket alone, costs more than my whole garb - and it without any doubt is bound to be of better quality !

[Mr Benn]

Hmm. Who else wears hats? Let me think. Bus drivers. Train station attendants. Zoo keepers. Women at weddings. Hey, perhaps politicians should start wearing hats? :)
Does it mean they are at the top of their profession? Let us consider animal rescue. RSPCA inspectors wear hats. They go round and bring the animals into the clinic. In the clinic are vets. They wear any clothes they like (usually with a white coat on top). No hat. Yet they have spent many years at Uni and in training prior to qualifying. Are we saying that the public have less respect for vets than the van drivers who pick up the animals?
Airline pilots are not in the military. Does anyone really care if we wear hats or not? Many airline's pilots don't wear hats. "Go" springs to mind. Is it even slightly relevant? As long as we wear a recognisable uniform, does it matter? Are we saying that cabin crew are not professional because they don't wear hats? (Well, OK, some do).
I think it is time for the "airline pilot" uniform to go through a thorough update and be brought into the 21st century. I'm not saying go casual and wear baseball caps, but there really must be something better out there than the poor quality, cut and look of the uniforms many of us wear.

[Puritan]

... and US navy Admirals wear baseball caps - nough said !

[Puritan]

Whoops, nearly forgot a biggy...... and so does the President, on some occasions !

[piston broke]

This relates to a previous post that seems relevant....


Base Check Questionnaire

1. The stall warning stick shaker operates at:
a) 140kts in clean configuration
b) Vref + 5Kts in landing configuration
c) Whatever you say it does

2. When cleared for the approach to 26L at **** you should:
a) Land on 26L
b) Land on 26R
c) Land on Taxiway November

3. When cleared for a **** SID you should:
a) Fly the SID to the tolerances allowed in the Instrument Rating test
b) Save fuel by flying direct to the *** VOR
c) Select wings to swept position and pull 6G

4. When “looking beyond the flight safety aspect” it is essential to recognise:
a) That the correct decision may be straightforward or good.
b) That the good decision may be safe or correct
c) That the good decision may be straightforward or safe

5. If a diversion occurs the Captain should meet the passengers at least:
a) Once
b) Once an hour until his crew abandon him
c) Once an hour minimum until he gets chinned

6. Before entering controlled airspace:
a) A clearance must be obtained
b) A clearance is not necessary if a Training Captain is on board
c) The First Officer is always responsible for infringements

6. When on duty the uniform cap must always be worn. The reason for this is:
a) Co-ordination with the uniform tie
b) To generate respect from passengers
c) To increase vertical stature

7. With reference to the cross cockpit authority gradient:
a) Training Captains must always be respected for their firm Captaincy
b) Is not applicable in this company
c) 82 First Officers are not wrong

8. The use of Auto-throttle:
a) Depends on which Captain is flying
b) Is an unnecessary modern device; power is always controlled with the thrust levers
c) Should be attempted with caution due to the gross mismatches of N1, EPR & TGT on company aircraft.

9. A STAR procedure:
a) Must be flown precisely as depicted due to terrain and noise considerations
b) May be ignored if a Training Captain is on board
c) Is a suggestion only and may always be ignored

10. When checking the MEL you note that a deficiency may only be accepted until the aircraft arrives at an airport where repairs can reasonably be made. This means:
a) Main base
b) Engineering base
c) Any nominated airfield outside the company’s route structure if time or spares are short

11. Departing from **** your clearance is via the ***** SID. Due to the condition of the charts on board it is not possible to identify the correct one. You should:
a) Take off and turn at an appropriate place direct to the first en-route VOR
b) Charts are not necessary if a Ouija board is available
c) Attempt to use the aircraft’s mobile phone and ask a Training Captain for advice

12. When attempting to use the aircraft mobile phone you discover that there are four such phones on board. This means:
a) All four batteries are flat
b) Three other aircraft have no phone
c) There is a sale at the Carfone Warehouse, price £9.99

13. Departing Rome you receive the loadsheet and notice that the dry operating Weight and Index are actually correct. The action you should take is:
a) Contact the Operations Manager for advice
b) Complete a Mandatory Occurrence report
c) None. Any variation is minor and of no consequence

14. The completion of a Mandatory Occurrence Report is:
a) Required in the event of any on-schedule departure
b) Never required by training or management pilots
c) On edible rice paper

15. After advising the cabin crew over the PA to be seated for take off:
a) Return the transmit selector to company frequency
b) Remain on PA; the No 1 will receive clearances on her mobile phone
c) Give four chimes on the cabin emergency call and arm the slides

[Basil]

kbf1, when I was an apprentice engineer (that was before army, merchant navy, RAF and airlines) I quite admired the skills of sheet metal workers. How did they know how much extra material to allow for all those bends? and how do they get these wonderful double curves into a Bentley front wing? :) :) :)
Anyway, I digress; my personal preference would be no caps and open neck shirts (No gold chains, ducky!) BUT dress standard is decided by management and, like company SOPs, should be complied with. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Slasher]

I hate bloodey uniforms and caps! :mad:

My cap stay permanentley at home (minus keys, pen, wallet, etc when Im on duty) otherwise Id lose the damn thing.

My epalettes can usualy be found in my pocket (to be donned only if CP is lurking around the terminal)

My tie is around my neck in public (removed while in the cockpit.

Wings stay put on my shirt because its too bothersome fitting and removing the bloodey studs underneath it (and they contantley scratch my left tit if Ive misfitted them)

* Ill only wear a full uniform if Im getting my Company picture took.

[redsnail]

And you like that, don't you slasher....... :)

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reddo
A Feral Animal.

[traveler]

Why do freight dogs wear uniforms ?

[Grandad Flyer]

Does anyone else have uniforms from BA stores? Does anyone else think that the quality is crap and that there must be a better uniform shop out there somewhere?

[Sid Viscous]

Traveler, I'm a freightdog on L10s out of MIA. Most of our flying is in the Caribbean and in Latin America, and believe me, the further south you go from MIA the more braid you need and the more exotic the caps etc get. As long as you look the part, you don't get hassled by the airport authorities - but if you turn up scruffy and without the uniform (including cap) they'll regard you with major suspicion.

And a decent cap (mine, along with my uniform comes from Tally Ho on NW36St)with a waterproof lining is great for keeping balding heads dry in rainshowers. :)

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[Basil]

You're so right, Sid, in many parts of the world the uniform counts for more than the ID card.
In any case, both can be easily forged.

Why'd I bother to post this - we all know it anyway - yes, I know, I've just come in from't pub, wife's asleep, I'm bored - i wonder what's on TV, PPRUNE Chat, porn sites, whaddabout a coffee ~~~~~~ zzzzzzz

[Vmike]

My outfit used to wear caps, then they stopped. Dunno why, but I wish I had a cap that I could choose NOT to wear. Could be a hark back to the days before I got kicked out of the RAF when I wished I had a '50-mission hat'. Still, if we still had them, I'd wear it with pride, provided I'd had the chance to kick the crap out of it properly first. It would be nice to see Nigel walking by, at East Midlands in his brand new shiney little hat, knowing that I still fly a better aeroplane than him, I earn more than him and I've got a better-looking hat than him. Nuff said!

[HOMER SIMPSONS LOVECHILD]

I along with 99% of the public completely lost all respect for Bankers when they stopped wearing Bowlers.I believe Mill Foremen (Oop North ) still need a large top hat to get anything done.As for the Navy! It's been a laughing stock since they scrapped those Tricorn jobs.

[KaptainKangaroo]

Southwest pilots do wear hats, and the leather jacket looks silly, if you asked me

[beeswax]

I don't like wearing my cap because
a: it hurts my head and I can't get a size to fit properly and
b: it makes me look dopey

what about any pax out there do you think any worse of a pilot who isn't wearing a cap or does it make no difference?

[Sink Rate]

Reminds me of a story I was told by one of the guys in BA unifrom stores...

A skipper walks in to replace his cap. He is handed one of the shelf and proceeds to put it in the carrier bag along with the rest of the replacement uniform.

The assistant asks "Excuse me sir, aren't you going to try it on?"

At which point the Captain remarks "oh, yes of course I should" and proceeds to put it under his arm and remarks "yes, that fits just fine!!!!"

[CaptainSquelch]

A few years ago I was ready for a new cap. After years of travel in my flightbag and long nights on the hotelroom desk with keys, pens, peanuts and broken glass in it the old one smelled like a turd, floating around in whisky. So off I went to the uniform department. Heinz, THE man in our uniform depatment, supplied me with a new USSR style cap and while walking to the door I tried, rather unsuccesfully, to remove most of the crab from the top of the hat. I removed the steel spring which stretches it like a deck carrier, grabbed the foam and pulled. I ended up with only the peak and a ring in one hand and all the rest in the other.

I used the old cap for three more years.

Sq

[tunneler]

Always thought that the uniform looked Sh!t hot.............