Sabena Manifestation

[I still believe in Sabena]

MANIFESTATION SUNDAY
When : Sundag 11 nov
What : Manifestation March
Where : All pilots gather at 13:30L at Sabena house (normal departure 14:00L at Novotel)
Be all present in uniform at the Sabena house at 13:30L in order to assemble all crew for the National manifestation.
Try to gather a maximum of friends and relatives to join up.

Please be there and make a stand to the injustice that's been done to 12.000 hard working employees (not to mention all the other people who are affected) and their families.

[The Guvnor]

Sounds like the Sabena people are revolting again ... I wonder if this time they will manage to burn down the Prime Minister's residence? It's amazing that they don't understand that they largely have themselves (and their unions) to blame for their current mess. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Saab 2000 Driver]

I still believe in Sabena

Let me guess....you also still believe in Santa Claus. :eek:

[Hold at Saffa]

Your time would be much better spent upon some serious navel gazing.

Here's a few pointers to get you started.

1. Airlines need to make a profit.
2. Unions destroy airlines.

You might believe in Sabena and the tooth fairy, but most of us don't.

[FreezingFog]

Was not the most arrogant attitude of almost all of your SN-mainline colleagues one of the reasons than SN has gone down? Too much work with 40 block hours per month?
Only secondary class people around when no SN-mainline pilots were present?
Beside the point that you put the last nail in your own coffin, now you are also trying to harm the rest of the world?
Hope that the blue dressed law and order fellows know how to use their equipment to re-install order immediately so that you are out of this business and no passengers or other airlines are disturbed with their life.
You still will receive a decent pay for about three months...use a bit from it and buy new glasses, this will help you to see more clearer what happens around you!

There are certainly not many here who find any sympathie for you. Also our thoughts are with all, who lost a job and worked hard to avoid that, you are still up in the sky with no steering wheel around.... :mad:

[Spoonbill]

And who will be there to meet you all at Sabena House? On a Sunday? After the airline has ceased all operations?
I think you'l have to amuse yourselves for a couple of hours. :rolleyes:

[Gantenbein]

It wasn’t just the pilots. It wasn’t just Belgium’s corporate climate. It wasn’t just Swissair snatching away the company’s most lucrative routes without giving even the promised investment in return.

Please allow these people to grieve, in whatever way they see fit. It’s all they have left.

[FreezingFog]

Gantenbein, grieve no one will disturb, no one will object against.
What happens in BRU is no grieve, it is a stupid action against others.
Have you seen that the airport came to a standstill because all passengers from whatever airline have been hindered to access the security area?
Do you know that other airlines are harmed by these rediculous actions?
Do you know that thousands of other people have been forced to re-arrange business meetings, private arrangements etc. just because the Sabeniens (as they call themselves now) all in a sudden believe they own the airport?
Guess not, otherwise you would not show your support!
What they do right now is to show the world that the management took the only possible solution to clear the way for a fresh start.

[sabenapilot]

I'd say let's kick Daems and Verhofstadt out of our country tomorrow.
Not to mention Muller.
We don't need this sort of economic liberals here. What we need are people who create and protect jobs, not people who destroy them...

Hasta la victoria siempe!

[jumbolina]

Tolipenabas (what kind of a name is that anyway?),
Whith your statement you really show your understanding of the current situation...
Let me wake you up: Muller is not responsiple for this, all he got was a mess left behind by former managers (reutlinger cs??). He has NEVER given any false perspectives, unlike the former AND Daems!
He was the first one to have the balls to fight the union, which, although they knew things were going wrong (as they say now!), were never willing to give in on there vacation-roster.
Although I feel sorry for all the guys and girls losing there jobs, and I think they have every right to show their grieve, I believe it very wrong that they take the passengers hostage ONCE AGAIN. Leave them alone, they did NOTHING wrong!!
I hope tomorrow will be peacefull, for a change.
Anyway, why should "Sabeniens" be entitled to more than people from Citybird, Lernhout & Hauspie etcetc???
BUT, all said and done...The Guvnor, although the unions are partly to blame...management is the one to be LARGELY blamed!!
With everything you appear to know, you should be able to figure that one out.

Well, DAT is back in the air, let's just hope that the "sabeniens" will let them fly...otherwise they WILL be largely to blame for another 5000 job losses!

"It wasn't me either"

[maxalt]

Hold at Saffa you say 'Unions destroy airlines.'

Well take a look at Ryanair. That's an airline that has destroyed the unions. It's also destroying the working conditions of its employees, bit by bit.

You regard unions as an evil...but I view my union as a necessity, to put a stop to the kind of exploitation being perpetrated by O'Leary. I wouldn't work for him if he was the last employer on earth, at least while there is not even enough backbone among his employees to stand together to protect themselves.

By the way. In my company we have people like you who slate the union. Many of them are manager pilots. But as soon as these people fall into trouble...who do they go running to for help? You guessed it. The hated UNION.

[flapflap]

Well said jumbolina! Their union rally ****ed it all up! A real bunch of idiots! They had a sticker on their crew-bags saying: "BCA Flying and fighting together". I think that says it all!
I just hope that DAT will be left alone and continue with a prosperous future. I know that most people there aren't destroyed with that arrogant attitude that the SABENA-pilots had and that a new company based on DAT will have a great chance making it!
GOOD LUCK TO ALL DAT-PILOTS WITH THE NEW COMPANY!!!!!

[BLEKE]

[ 13 November 2001: Message edited by: BLEKE ]

[FL310]

Bleke....I hope for you all that your words go straight to the right people....in Melsbroek.

[VBO]

Everybody in the country was invited to the Sabena rally on the 11th to support THEIR case.The BeCA (Belgian Cockpit Association), Unions and government still deny the same treatment and furlow conditions for other companies effected (like in CityBird). This is absolutely outragous! The CityBird employees were willing to march with the people of Sabena, providing BeCA and the Unions (who have deserted the CTB staff ie 12000 SN vs 635 CTB staff) stated in public that every employee, regardless of company, should recieve the same treatment and opportunities should a new Belgian company arise. No such statement was made. On top of that BeCA made a deal with the Belgian government and Creyf's Interim to assure that the ex-Sabena pilot's will be placed in a rotary system in New D.A.T.to keep their licences valid and that their sim checks will be payed for by again the Belgian tax payer. No such deal for other-than-Sabena pilots. When I read this forum, it seems that the reputation of the SN boys&girls for the outside world is below 0°K, yet they carry on like nothing ever happend. I'm sure that there are a lot of good people amongst their ranks but now it's time for them to speak up and to prove that not all SN staff are egocentric, irresponsible idiots! Don't forget that the rest of the world is watching too! :mad:

[jumbolina]

Caveman (I love that name),
I'm afreed I have to agree with you on most part.
Both you and I know that some (?)"Sabeniens" always felt themselves a little bit more equal than the others.
I heard the one about the licences too, but it'll be a while before we'll start doing the airbus thing (probably even not at all), so unless there going to give 600 pilot's a 146 type-rating, me thinks this is an hollow agreement.
On another thread I some other belgium pilot proposing a new union for the pilot's, without the BeCA.
Are you in? :D
Anyway, best of luck with finding a new job!
J.

ps: it's 0 K, without the degree-thingy (where is it on the bl#### keyboard anyway???

Edited just to be a smart-ass :D :rolleyes: :D :D

[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: jumbolina ]

[geronimo]

I would like to elaborate a bit more on the pilot union issue and the BCA. First of all I agree that pilot unions have done a lot for us and certainly have established their necessity in aviation, however the BCA is not a recognized union as such. As far as I am concerned a union should not only look after the needs and concerns of flight crew but more importantly take care of the company itself. BCA seem to have lost the plot when it comes to the company needs and pilots with good intentions are dragged into irrelevant dog fighting by a group of hostile BCA members that give the unions a bad name.

I am glad to see that slowly but surely more and more BCA members are realizing exactly what they represent. Along with the opinions spread in such threads as these I hope that one day a proper union will find its place in Belgium that has the right intentions and objectives.

DAT are in the position to be selective with their recruitment, lets hope they succeed in creating a profitable company with company minded flight crew.

I am all for a new pilots union to replace the BCA. My grandmother has some spare time and I think with a little assistance with her Zimmer frame she could do a better job than has been done so far.


Is DAT the official name of the new SABENA company? More appropriate name could be HASBEENA...

Good luck to DAT.

GEEEERRRROOOOONNNNIIIIMMMMOOOO

[VBO]

As a matter of fact, in Belgium the Unions are politically tied, and they make no secret about it. But they lose track of what their mission is: ie to defend the interests of ALL of their members. That is the reason why people join a union: together we stand strong! It is sad to see that they use priciples like "political correct". The union's attitude is based on percentages of possible voters in favour of paradigm's like "everybody is equal under the law". Above all, Belgium is proud to honnour the basics of the French Revolution "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" (freedom, equality, brotherhood), to which example our judicial system was made. In times of trouble, our unions abandon those same principles. That's also Belgium!