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wings1011
9th Mar 2009, 08:02
Just saw it at the web and its a picture of a Antonov 124 freighter. Wheather its such an airctaft or not I cannot say since the press somtimes posts a picture of a "similar brand " .Appearantly it crashed directly after takeoff into the sea starting from Entebbe the biggest airport in Uganda, and all onboard are feared to be lost. It was obvisously carrying some military equipment. Anybody have some mor info ??

dudleydick
9th Mar 2009, 08:24
The following was lifted fronm Flight safety site:

9 MAR 2009 - A cargo plane with seven people on board crashed into Lake Victoria after take-off from Entebbe, Uganda. Rumors indicate that the airplane involved may have been Il-76 S9-DBR, while media reports state an Antonov was involved in the accident.
Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE52811N20090309)

LorryDriver
9th Mar 2009, 08:37
From Uganda's New Vision Plane crashes into Lake Victoria, 11 feared dead Monday, 9th March, 2009 A cargo plane with eleven people on board crashed into Lake Victoria after take-off from Uganda's main airport at 5:14 am this morning, killing three Burundian army officers. The plane, an illuyshin 76, registration S9-SAB operated by Aerolift and chartered by Dynacorp was flying from Entebbe airport to Somalia with tents and water purification equipment for the African Mission to Somalia (AMSOM). The fate of the other passengers is still unknown. The Spokeman of Civil Aviation Authority, Ignie Igunduura said salvage efforts were underway. “The Entebbe airport and UPDF Marine Search teams immediately went to the scene where the aircraft had crashed and sank,” said Igunduura, who feared all the people on board had been killed. “The identities and nationalities of the people on board will be disclosed after their next of kin have been informed.” It is not known what caused the crash and a team of investigators has been sent to the site to determine the probable cause of the accident. Operations at the airport have not been affected.

readywhenreaching
9th Mar 2009, 09:04
according to JACDEC (J.A.C.D.E.C. - Jet Airliner Crash Data Evaluation Centre (http://www.jacdec.de)), it was a IL-76 registration S9-SAB

again Aerolift
again Lake Victoria
again soon after take-off

more to come...
4 crew + 7 "others".

b

Schumi - Red Baron
9th Mar 2009, 09:25
According to Reuters it's an Antonov.


KAMPALA, March 9 (Reuters) - An Antonov cargo plane en route to Somalia with 11 people on board including three Burundian military officers crashed into Lake Victoria after take-off from Uganda's main airport on Monday, officials said.



UPDATE 1 - Cargo plane crashes into Ugandan lake | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL9213644)

BUSHJEPPY
9th Mar 2009, 10:03
Aerolift....hummm...well known Gun Runners. It's about time that the international community does something against these flag of convenience but instead they get more business, of course, who wants to fly into Moga these days...

Dani
9th Mar 2009, 11:44
... except some merceneries from Dyncorp (not Dynacorp)!

Waterpurification? Who believes it!

D

Jofm5
9th Mar 2009, 12:00
Accordin to the following article on the Aviation Herald (The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/h?article=41635921&opt=0))


An Aerolift (Namibia) Ilyushin IL-76 chartered by Dynacorp on behalf of the African Mission to Somalia (AMISOM), registration S9-SAB performing a charter freight flight from Entebbe (Uganda) to Somalia with 4 passengers and 7 crew on board, crashed into Lake Victoria about 9km from the airport shortly after takeoff from Entebbe at 05:14 local (02:14Z) and sank. Three Burundian Army Officers are confirmed dead, the others on board are feared dead.

The airplane carried tents and water purifiers.


Metars etc are available via the link for those interested.

Vapor
9th Mar 2009, 13:08
Well if it's S9-SAB then it's a IL76

JetPhotos.Net Photo » S9-SAB (CN: 063471147) Aerolift Ilyushin IL-76 by Michael Sender (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6413138&nseq=3)

captplaystation
9th Mar 2009, 13:18
I am constantly surprised when these things crash. . . . reason being that it happens so often I am surprised there are any left to crash. :hmm:

Jetjock330
9th Mar 2009, 14:02
S9 registration is Sao Tome if I think

Avman
9th Mar 2009, 14:32
......and most wouldn't have crashed if they didn't overload them so much - not to mention the iffy maintenance on those operated by the cowboy outfits. Unfortunately many of these crews don't have many other options to earn a living flying.

wilyflier
9th Mar 2009, 15:03
Dawn temperature inversion over the lake, using every inch of the runway,unable to get above Flaps up safety speed for several minutes, trying to dodge the thick clouds of lake flies for fear of power loss.
45 years ago, but we werent carrying hardware, just fare paying pax for London, plus Freddie Lakers private banana bonus up to MTOW.

Xeque
9th Mar 2009, 15:47
There's a story to be told in there somewhere methinks :)

B Sousa
9th Mar 2009, 15:59
Its mentioned above but gathering limited info here and there it seems.
We have Dyncorp ( US company) chartering a Russian Aircraft to take Tents and Water Purification goodies from Entebbe?? Since when did Entebbe become a stockpile for "humanitarian" supplies. And into Somalia no less.
Also based on previous accidents and speculation, could it be they were about "ten tents" overloaded??
Anyway deep deep water which may never yield the secret.....nor the lost souls making a tough living.

I have been assured by a friend that it was as described. Tents etc and certainly not overloaded. Water where the wreckage is not that deep so there will be an answer eventually. Other information not to be posted yet until an "official" answer come out.

Radar35
9th Mar 2009, 16:13
Used to Work at Fujairah, UAE where all these aircraft types such as AN12's, IL76's etc working in that part of the world come for maintenance.

It should be looked into why 80% of these companies (and owners) use non authorised organisations, not to mention the fact that the local authorities take no action at all in this regard.

Difficult to blame the crews for accepting these aircraft in this condition as they are not privy to the whole maintenance manuals and schedules not to mention that the owners offer huge amounts of cash for such flights (in the region of $30K per month for Pilots & 80 % of that for the rest of the crews) so if they are desperate like most people on the world today then they will take their chances for a month or two.

The main reason for thos post, although I am dead against journalists using this forum, I hope someone picks up on this and actually starts writing and asking serious questions of the aviation authorities in the middle east, Ukraine, Russia and the african continent. Bear in mind alot of these aircraft are contratcted by the United Nations also. Let's hope these are not going to be any more lives lost unnecessarily!!!!! :mad:

Dysag
9th Mar 2009, 16:24
Remember this?

YouTube - IL-76 on a loooooonnnnnggggg takeoff. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=3z3ZducPWFQ)

ian16th
9th Mar 2009, 17:37
This is from a South African news website:
Plane crash: Recovery continues: Africa: News: News24 (http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2482517,00.html)

Kampala - Recovery operations were still going on into the afternoon on Monday after a Russian-built plane crashed into Lake Victoria earlier in the day, with up to 11 persons feared dead, officials said. "As we talk now, the rescue team has not fished out the bodies and the plane wreckage," Information Minister Kabakumba Matsiko said. "The mission is still going on."
The government said that among those feared dead int eh crash of the Ilyushin plane were the four Russian crew members, along with three Burundia army officers, a South African UN staff member, and an Indian and Ugandan national.
The cargo plane had taken off from Entebbe airport but then burst into flames and crashed into a fishing boat on the lake, 9km to the south, and sank. The fishermen survived the accident.
"The team is still investigating and looking out for options and theories until the truth is got. The names of the dead will not be released until their families are informed," Matsiko said.
The ill-fated plane was bringing tents and water treatment equipment to Somalia. Uganda and Burundi have sent close to 5 000 troops to Somalia under the African Union mission to restore order in the country.

Intruder
9th Mar 2009, 20:42
Since when did Entebbe become a stockpile for "humanitarian" supplies.
I took a 747 full of them into Entebbe last fall on a UN charter...

AA SLF
9th Mar 2009, 20:46
Dyncorp is a well known corporation here in the Dallas area. Their HQ is in a suburb just down the road from me. They are in a very "interesting" line-of-business (read "Solidier of Fortune activities"). You want to hire some "hard men" for a black mission somewhere - see Dyncorp.

readywhenreaching
9th Mar 2009, 21:45
Il-76 generally confirmed by everyone...a small change in thread title is overdue...:hmm:

rgds
ready

daikilo
9th Mar 2009, 22:52
Yes, but, I would be more than happy if ground crew were to agree that our collective objective is that what we call airplanes be able to maintain a positive gradient beyond the end of the runway.

B Sousa
10th Mar 2009, 00:16
Intruder
Thanks for that I have been informed that it seems to be a storing point for Suppies going into some places over there. I thought today that they would be direct rather than risk the loss before getting to their intended destinations.

Capt Groper
10th Mar 2009, 02:13
Many be just a few too many kg's on this Take Off

Yes T/O perf cal = how much RWY did we use last time.

OK 10m more available, = 10 more tons to uplift next time.

Simple calculation with devastating consequences.

DownIn3Green
10th Mar 2009, 02:42
OK, what's the issue? It is Africa, and if you have flown there then you would understand...

John Miller
10th Mar 2009, 07:56
The main reason for thos post, although I am dead against journalists using this forum, I hope someone picks up on this and actually starts writing and asking serious questions of the aviation authorities in the middle east, Ukraine, Russia and the african continent. Bear in mind alot of these aircraft are contratcted by the United Nations also. Let's hope these are not going to be any more lives lost unnecessarily!!!!!Here's one journalist (and pilot) using this forum. The trouble is, it's very rare to find anyone amongst the Russian aircraft operators willing to talk to the media about anything. It's also virtually impossible to obtain any positive stories from the CIS aviation community so everything ends up in the newspapers after some disaster or other. The operators and to a large extent, airframe manufacturers, have themselves to thank for the low regard for their industry.

No one talks and nothing can be substantiated. I have in the past attempted to write insightful and impartial pieces on CIS-related subjects including cargo operators in Africa and the Middle East. They are hugely distrustful of the media - even the aviation press and haven't a clue how to build PR relationships (unlike US or European operators). It comes across as always having something to hide. :ugh:

charter man
10th Mar 2009, 10:37
IF the aircraft was chartered by DynCorp (mission statement "We serve today for a safe tomorrow") and IF it was carrying supplies for the military in Somalia, why are the Ugandan authorities allowing a flag of convenience operator to use their airspace? My understanding is that the IL76 has been banned in Uganda for some time due to safety concerns however exemptions are regularly granted for "military operations". This should not IMHO allow the U.N. to use operators who are not considered safe in the vast majority of the world's civilised countries and who is allowing DynCorp to use such carriers?

Goldfish Jack
10th Mar 2009, 12:02
One also needs to look at the possibility of a temp inversion.

Knowing African met, the crew did prob not know it existed until they hit it!

How often do you find out about the inversion - often after the 1st dep of the morning and they inform ATC?

Met info down here is never the best around. If this is the case, you have to sympathise with the crew

DA50driver
10th Mar 2009, 12:47
If you have to worry about a temperature inversion as it relates to climb performance I am willing to bet my left n"t you are a wee bit too heavy.

charter man
10th Mar 2009, 13:39
I have no doubt that the Sao Tome Civil Aviation Authority will conduct a full and thorough investigation and the facts will be known shortly.

OldCessna
10th Mar 2009, 13:52
A bird strike is very probable taking off from Entebbe out over the lake. Why you may ask?

Well because there is a bird sanctuary between the end of the runway & the lake.

A 'kite" (big bird) with a 14ft wingspan does an awful lot of damage to an engine!

captainspeaking
10th Mar 2009, 14:00
Is this the same Aerolift that broke an An-12 at Luxor in February?

South Africa: Aerolift (http://www.airlineupdate.com/airlines/airline_profiles/airlines_southafrica/aerolift.htm)

Siguarda al fine
10th Mar 2009, 16:07
One and the same Aerolift IE. Vicktor Bout´s company run by his henchmen.

Skylion
10th Mar 2009, 16:12
Could be (another) massive birdstrike. There is a large bird sanctuary close to Entebbes runway. At dawn the inhabitants go and find breakfast and take it back to the now warming runway to consume as it's a nice place to be. It's always been a problem but eases off after about 1000 when its too hot for the birds to sit around in the sun.

Bottlehead
10th Mar 2009, 19:36
The S9 part of the registration is Sao Tome & Principe, a small group of islands of the west coast of Africa. Once owned by the Portugese. I think it must be a place of convenience to register old aircraft.

As an aside, Registration marks on aircraft generally follow from a historical sense the call signs alloted to each country in the 1930s by the ITU (Internation Telegraph Union). Hence Axx and Nxx was given to the USA. But only the N letter used for aircraft.

So sounds like a strange load or task?

barry lloyd
10th Mar 2009, 20:35
Bottlehead

Appreciate it's your first post, but suggest you read some of the earlier posts, especially #11 and #32 (which is ever so slightly tongue in cheek methinks).
There are a number of flags (registrations) of convenience in use, and this is considered to be one of them.
You are probably aware that there is a Brit (Simon Mann) in jail in Sao Tome for gun-running.

Siguarda al fine
10th Mar 2009, 22:02
Barry Lloyd
Simon Mann is in Black Beach prison Malabo which unless its been moved is in Equatorial Guinea Not Sao Tome. BTW If you ever fly in that area do take your GPS with you or you could get into a lot of trouble geographicaly and politicaly not to mention financialy.

barry lloyd
10th Mar 2009, 22:30
Siguarada:

Mea culpa! :\

That's what you get for prooning and watching Liverpool thrash Real at the same time!

B Sousa
10th Mar 2009, 23:09
They are hugely distrustful of the media That goes with the territory. Journalists as I have seen them, sell stories. That includes whatever it takes to make the story appealing so for anyone to be distrustful, its a no brainer.
As to operators and the media in this case. Consider that "Supplies", be they Tents or Toilet paper are on a need to know basis. Dyncorp contracting through the state department sort of indicates you dont have a need to know..........
What should be public information, once it has been established, may be the cause of the accident. A lot of the Russian Aircraft operating in Africa have been given a bad rap and in many cases rightfully so.
Little has yet been posted on this one and nobody has yet claimed responsibility for "knocking it out of the sky".
So Journalist or not, its a wait and see what we are allowed to know.
I only hope that its not something related to the aircraft that needs to be fixed so that others do not suffer the same fate.

Dengue_Dude
11th Mar 2009, 07:19
Maximum Take Off Weight (Mass) - what'yre talkin' about?

There's plenty of room left . . . fill it up.

Rest assured, the lake flies and lots of birds are still there and it's hot and high, it's in Africa, it's a Russian aeroplane, and you really don't need to be overweight . . .

'Making sure there's no tomorrow'.

golfyankeesierra
11th Mar 2009, 08:25
I understand that the birdstrikes at night in EBB are in fact "Bat-strikes". Remember this accident happened early morning.
The engineers say the bats are nothing to worry about.

Also they say best is to keep your (landing)lights off as long as possible since the lights attract them.

Any resident care to react?

Four Wings
11th Mar 2009, 08:35
RPG strike

Legit cargo

Daysleeper
11th Mar 2009, 08:59
I understand that the birdstrikes at night in EBB are in fact "Bat-strikes"..... best is to keep your (landing)lights off as long as possible since the lights attract them.


consider that well known phrase as blind as a ______

you fill in the blank

:hmm:

grizzled
11th Mar 2009, 09:26
You wrote: "RPG"
Is that a theory, a guess, or do you know something we don't?

Grizz

ian16th
11th Mar 2009, 09:46
11/03/2009 09:42 - (SA)


Erika Gibson, Beeld
Pretoria - He had spent four-and-a-half years in Iraq without getting hurt, but two months after his return, he died in a plane crash in Uganda.
Duncan Rykaart, a former Special Forces operator and colonel, was one of 11 people aboard a Ilyushin 76 cargo plane that crashed into Lake Victoria on Monday.
He had been working for Bancroft Global Development, an American company specialising in research on explosive devices and landmines, since January. The company advises the African Union's peacekeeping troops in Somalia.
"Duncan wanted to do something completely different and so he started working for us from January," said Rocky van Blerk, programme director at Bancroft on Tuesday.
He and Rykaart had known each other since 1979, when both where operators at the 5 Reconnaissance regiment in Phalaborwa.
"I spoke to him the night before the accident. Shortly after five o'clock the next morning, I got a call that the plane had crashed."
Rykaart was married with two children. His widow, Amanda, said on Tuesday that the search for the remains of the victims was continuing, but the wreck lay under 26m of water and oil.

ecureilx
11th Mar 2009, 09:51
my 2 cent .. If it was an RPG, must be a really really lucky shot, or the plane was really struggling to gain altitude passing the runway ..

RPGs aimed higher have tendancy to rush to the earth due to their front heavy design ..

charter man
11th Mar 2009, 10:53
It is very sad to hear that a man with a distinguished military career was on board, it does make you wonder if a man like that would have chosen to fly on an aircraft with such a pedigree when he was in Iraq? I also doubt whether there were proper seats available for 7 pax?
I also hear that the aircraft had experienced some "technical problems" before this flight departed.....

Four Wings
11th Mar 2009, 10:54
You wrote: "RPG"
Is that a theory, a guess, or do you know something we don't?

Prime quality source

Four Wings
11th Mar 2009, 15:55
For more background go to Freight Dogs and read the post by ocnus on the Il 76 thread.

charter man
11th Mar 2009, 19:20
So shot down or caught fire and crashed or birdstrike or??

John Farley
11th Mar 2009, 19:31
Chaps

I know nothing about this accident but I would suggest that the ‘famous’ YouTube video of a late unstuck quoted on post 18 this thread is not what it seems.

Aeroplanes need two things to unstick – speed and angle of attack. At unstuck the aircraft on YouTube certainly had speed but it had a negligible nose up attitude showing a low angle of attack. In short this is what you see when a wind up merchant leaves his aircraft on the ground until just before the end of the runway and then (thanks to the excess speed) is able to unstuck and fly away without the normal post rotation high nose up attitude.

Works every time with a lot of onlookers - especially with a large aircraft that always seem to be crawling along after takeoff when compared to its smaller brethren.

JF

AAL
11th Mar 2009, 21:22
Or explosive device placed on board by fundementalist extremists who do not like what the AU's AMSOM (Mission in Somalia) are doing in Mogadishu to establish an orderly administration and trying to keep peace and a semblence of order.

Rebels shot down two IL-76's with RPG-7's in Mogadishu last year, one on landing and one on departure.

Its not a secret that the same rebels have been threatening for the past 3 or 4 months to shoot down this aircraft bringing in supplies, also, and have been attempting unsuccessfully to hit it while on the ground with mortar fire at MGQ airport.

Next best if not possible to get at it in MGQ, try at EBB where the same fanatics enjoy substantial support from a like-minded community and sympathisers.

Suggest responsibly hold your horses till more info/facts are known.

Dont think Four Wings is far wrong. At 14.5 tons cargo payload, and 0300Z, that plane could have gone out there with 2 engines!

Siguarda al fine
11th Mar 2009, 21:48
Hey!! what happened to my post asking John Miller where he qualified as a journalist? :=

B Sousa
11th Mar 2009, 21:54
You may have B:mad:1tch slapped him a bit too much.............:=

mini
11th Mar 2009, 23:19
Four Wings, if your report is true they're tidy operators, or boat based...

either way its a whole new threat for Entebbe...:sad:

Personally, I won't believe it just yet.

172driver
11th Mar 2009, 23:31
John Farley

You seem to know very little about the center of lift on some Russian designs. Quite a few ILs and Antonovs climb away in a nose DOWN attitude. No idea why they are designed that way, but they are....

charter man
You've obviously never been on a freighter - guess, they don't do them in MSFS:E

pilotbear
11th Mar 2009, 23:42
172driver
I hope you are realise whose experience and knowledge you are questioning there matey :ugh: perhaps not if your title is correct:rolleyes:

Halfbaked_Boy
12th Mar 2009, 00:30
Oh dear, when will it stop... think we've had our due for one year.

Good luck to the investigators, who I'm sure will produce another learning curve for us to have a look at. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it.

Four Wings
12th Mar 2009, 12:24
re RPG strike.

You might call it Zakharov's credit crunch. Read Ocnus and draw your own conclusions.

John Farley
12th Mar 2009, 12:35
John Farley

You seem to know very little about the center of lift on some Russian designs.

That's me put straight then

JF

Siguarda al fine
12th Mar 2009, 13:16
OCNUS = Dr. Gary Busch a known Viktor Boutaphile so read with some caution please.

Four Wings
12th Mar 2009, 15:16
Ocnus: Bout-phobe, not phile. Didn't you see him on the TV documentary on Bout?

Siguarda al fine
12th Mar 2009, 16:53
I did not see GB on TV expressing distain for VB.
BTW John Miller has chosen to PM me rather than reply in the thread, I wonder why? So far no info as to where he qualified as a Journalist.

africanut
13th Mar 2009, 10:07
RPG....... Nonsense !!!
A/c was AOG with engine problems 1 week back.

Unfortunately just another case of Messrs Yvgueny & co's total lack of respect for human life

AAL
13th Mar 2009, 11:18
Africanut, you can prove that? Records show one week ago aircraft was away on flight. Perhaps you are getting the aircraft at EBB confused.

How is Yuri Siderov doing lately, you must surely work for him or be his friend - send him best regards. Hope you get to fly again real soon.

But from your previous posts it would appear if you are a wannabe aviator or cargo agent dredging the outside of the terminal begging for cargo. Obviously you have insights and access to the aircraft airside EBB, thats why you can have so much to say. Specialist?

How many S9 IL-76 were standing at EBB last wek, or whenever you made these observations, and what are/were their registrations?

Come on mr Specialist, show us you know everything, ok, maybe perhaps, just something!

abra
16th Mar 2009, 18:58
I got the joke..please keep your comments and thoughts coming,after all, '172 Driver' as a handle says it all!
Abra

merlinxx
16th Mar 2009, 19:37
I'd like to see 172 in a 'Dunsfold Dustbin' in the hover, but only with you in it going vertical:ok:

FE Hoppy
16th Mar 2009, 19:55
New screen name required mate. This one is worthless now!!

JF - I'll bet he put a smile on your face.

barry lloyd
16th Mar 2009, 20:41
Interview with Viktor Bout on Channel 4 (UK independent TV channel) this evening, in which they interviewed him (with some obvious difficulty) in his Thai prison. He stated that he did not always know what the aircraft he was operating were doing.

http://http://www.channel4.com/news/ (http://www.channel4.com/news/)

HarryMann
16th Mar 2009, 20:56
You seem to know very little about the center of lift on some Russian designs. Quite a few ILs and Antonovs climb away in a nose DOWN attitude.

Hey :rolleyes:!
Centre of lift has nothing to do with fuse angle, it's zero-lift incidence setting of the wing viz the fuse that sets that, usually for cruise-drag reduction, though sometimes for simple landing take-off geometry reasons.

ehwatezedoing
16th Mar 2009, 23:51
For your knowledge 172driver.
http://www.pprune.org/flight-testing/351494-john-farleys-new-book.html

:ok:

Soap Box Cowboy
17th Mar 2009, 09:28
Entebbe has been the center for a large humanitarian fleet for several years now ever since Kenya wanted to tax UN food aid and various other things heading into Congo.

And as for this aircraft it was apparently flying supplies to Uganden peace keepers in Somalia.

jumpseater
17th Mar 2009, 10:56
Miniature Disasters Norven Munky’s Weblog (http://norvenmunky.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/miniature-disasters/)

Might be worth reading Mr 172 ....:D

charter man
17th Mar 2009, 11:56
As often seems to happen, this thread seems to have wandered away from the points at issue.
Why was an aircraft (which is almost certainly not airworthy) allowed to operate a charter flight on behalf of the UN/US government/whoever and kill 4 crew and 7 passengers (who almost certainly should not have been allowed on board) by crashing in as yet unexplained circumstances.
There will not be any proper investigation, certainly no report from the Sao Tome AAIB and there will be many more repeats of these appalling crashes.
One can only hope that the lawyers acting for the bereaved families may discover some of the facts and the powers that be in Rome and Washington may one day properly enforce their own rules on which carriers they use.

413X3
27th Mar 2009, 18:18
Did anyone else have a good laugh when they read what the cargo claimed to be? tents? From Dynacorp? Oh cmon now.

atco749
28th Mar 2009, 07:53
yup.....sounds ridiculous but......for real there were water bottles floating at the crash site.....maybe the cargo we are thinking about sunk:rolleyes:......
really interesting story on the african aviation thread...........mention of al-shabaab!!!

wurlitzer
28th Mar 2009, 10:23
I have just come accross Mr 172driver's attempted bitch-slap of John Farley.

A true comic moment and one which made me laugh out loud.

heli-cal
31st Mar 2009, 20:52
Quote:
ENTEBBE, Uganda - Members of U.S. Navy Explosive Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit 8 (EODMU 8) receive a briefing on the Ilyushin 76 transport plane March 24, 2009, which is the same model as the one which crashed into Lake Victoria in Africa March 9. EODMU 8 is part of a search and recovery operation being conducted by the Combined Joint Task Force-Horn of Africa (CJTF-HOA) and the government of Uganda. (U.S. Navy photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist Cory Drake)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8205/3107.jpg

I doubt that these guy's have been brought in to look for sunken tents and bottled water!

Matoki
2nd Apr 2009, 19:27
http:New Vision Online : Plane wreckage 80ft deep (http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/13/676658)

lilflyboy262
4th Apr 2009, 00:11
I know this is a bit of a weird request, but does anyone have any ATC recordings?

costamaia
26th Dec 2010, 20:47
Final report released by the Uganda's Ministry of Transport

"...the commission states that according to aircraft documentation the aircraft had reached its end of life by 1998. There is no evidence that the aircraft underwent maintenance to extend its life despite claims by Aerolift, that such maintenace took place."

Crash: Aerolift IL76 at Entebbe on Mar 9th 2009, impacted Lake Victoria after takeoff (http://avherald.com/h?article=41635921/0002&opt=0)

JammedStab
19th Jan 2012, 15:35
This is the best I can do...from another forum:

"Lake Victoria Crash Plane Was Junk - Probe Report

P. Matsiko Wa Mucoori and Mubatsi Asinja Habati

Kampala — On March 9 last year, an Ilyushin IL-76 Russian made aircraft, operated by the Johannesburg-based Aerolift Company Ltd, crashed in Lake Victoria killing 11 people on board.

The Ministry of Transport appointed a commission of inquiry headed by Col. Chris Mudoola to investigate the cause of the crash. The commission has released its report. It does not point to a clear cause of the plane crash because of the lack of vital parts of the aircraft such as the flight recorders. However the report contains strong and disturbing leads as to why the aircraft came down. One of the intriguing findings is that the aircraft's airworthiness was questionable. The plane's flying life had expired by 11 years at the time of the crash, no overhaul had been done and the engines had gone long past their service time. The findings also reveal a lot about external interference in CAA's work by security organs, which the commission termed as "external forces" the competence of the crew and the use of foreign and unqualified mercenaries to operate flights in Uganda.

The ill-fated plane was chartered by an American company Dynacorp International to transport logistical supplies for the African Union Peacekeepers in Somalia.

The aircraft was manufactured in 1978 with a flying life of 20 years, which expired in 1998. This means by the time of the crash the aircraft's flying life had expired 11 years ago. The IL-76 is a large-capacity turbo-fan-powered jet freighter designed to operate from short, unprepared airstrips. The prototype flew on 25 March 1971 and test flying continued until 1975 when the type was put into production.

Aerolift acquired the plane in 2006 and registered it in the Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. According to the commission, there were no documents to prove the aircraft had been overhauled to extend its flying life. Although Aerolift insists overhaul and season maintenance checks were done. Instead the aircraft had four engine replacements between 1999 and 2003 due to expiry of their flying life, according to the report.

"Since the dates stated, there have been no records to indicate that the engines were overhauled. Also, no documents confirming scheduled maintenance were found," the report reads in part.


The same plane had returned to Entebbe airport in December 2008 when two of its engines lost power soon after takeoff on a flight to Isiro in the DR Congo. It remained grounded for 13 days. "The aircraft turn-back to the departure aerodrome Entebbe in December 2008 was caused by reduced fuel consumption and power of one of the engines," a representative of the Soviet Air Charter, which deals with air charter flights and cooperates with Aeroline, told the commission.

However this did not awaken the Ugandan authorities to have a maintenance check on the aircraft. Instead two new engines were flown in and fitted into the aircraft. It was again grounded in Johannesburg for 9 days about two months before the March 2009 crash. All these could have been good leads for the CAA to realise the aircraft was in a defective mechanical condition to fly. Capt. Francis Babu, a pilot by training, said "observing the airworthiness time of the plane is very important in aviation. If one does not comply, it amounts to a criminal offence."

The report notes that CAA does not have the technical personnel to conduct oversight safety checks of aircrafts made in the former Soviet Union. The report also notes that the CAA succumbs to "external influence to allow" such aircrafts into the country. But it does not specifically name the "external influence".

How could Uganda's CAA fail to verify the flight crew's operational certificates and the aircraft's airworthiness?

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) spokesman Ignie Igunduura declined to comment.

"We cannot make a comment on the report. As CAA, we are not aware that the report has been released because the minister has not officially communicated to us," Igunduura said.

A highly placed source in CAA told The Independent that some of the planes from the former Soviet Union don't come with documents, which makes it hard for CAA to ascertain their airworthiness. He said others come with documents in Russian, which the CAA cannot interpret. Asked why CAA should not get an interpreter, Igunduura said: "We can't employ a person just as an interpreter. It's not economical."


The CAA, however, does not have to employ a permanent interpreter. It can only hire a casual interpreter who is paid when work is available. It can also send the Russian documents to the country of origin and ask for a translated version in English or seek the assistance of the Russian Embassy in Kampala. For example the Mudoola commission sent a letter to the Soviet Air Charter to crosscheck the competence of the IL-76 crew and they received an English version. That's how they established the navigator had a forged certificate and the co-pilot had no licence.

However a senior CAA source, who declined to be named, admitted to The Independent that they have no control over the former Soviet Union planes. The source said defective aircraft from former Soviet Union are brought in by companies owned by local business people with close links to State House.

The source said when they aircrafts are brought into the country, they are parked at the army's Entebbe air base, which the CAA has no control over. The CAA cannot, therefore, go there for inspection to ascertain their airworthiness.

The source said that prior to the IL-76 crash, CAA had written to the UPDF informing them that CAA could not ascertain the airworthiness of such aircrafts and would not clear them to fly. But the army replied that they understood the problem and they would not blame CAA in case of any eventuality. He said the UPDF agreed to take responsibility in case of any eventuality.

When there is a military related mission especially out of the country, the source said, the government charters these planes. The CAA only sees them coming for clearance. The source said when the CAA refuses to clear the flights, the local aircraft operators tell top officials from the army or Ministry of Defence who call the CAA to clear the flights. The CAA succumbs. The source said this is the same scenario that happened in the IL-76 crash.


These aircrafts are preferred by the army because they are cheaper than the normal commercial aircraft because they don't charge like others do. They also don't spend a lot on aircraft maintenance. But also these planes have become a lucrative business for senior security officials who get "a commission" after the charter deals.

The source said the Ilyushin are part of the various types of aircraft that were stolen from the former Soviet Union after the breakup. Even their countries of manufacture no longer have control over them. They are used especially in Africa in lawless countries or countries where aviation rules are not strictly adhered to. Their airworthiness cannot be ascertained because they are not subjected to technical inspection.

This is the reason these aircrafts are not insured because the insurance company would require them to meet international standards. Indeed the IL-76 had not been insured.

Because of the interference of the "external forces", the Civil Aviation Authority has largely been powerless to ban those operators whose planes have not invested in the maintenance/prolongation programme that is offered by Ilyushin - The prolongation program costs around $3.5 million per aircraft and involves downtime of at least 6 months.

At the time of the crash even the airport radar was not operational. In the run up to the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) in Kampala in 2007, the government spent Shs.712 million on radar equipment which only worked for 4 months after installation. According to the Auditor General's (AG) report of June 2008, the government paid Shs.512 to a South African company, NetSys International, to repair and upgrade the weather and aviation radar. "... at the time of writing this report, the radar was reported to have developed some technical problems, was not functioning and required repair," noted the AG's report.

Experts in the aviation industry say that having radar at an airport is very important as it guarantees more air safety. Once the pilot gives the codes of the aircraft, the radar is able to locate its distance, height from the ground and speed. Here, the person controlling the radar can ably determine the speed interval at which planes can land. There is transmission of codes and messages so that there is knowledge of where the plane is coming from or going. The radar increases the aviation safety as well as the management of the speed at which aircraft reach the busy airport, what is otherwise known as Air Traffic Control. Air traffic control (ATC) is a service provided by ground-based controllers who direct aircraft on the ground and in the air. The primary purpose of ATC systems worldwide is to separate aircraft to prevent collisions, to organise and expedite the flow of traffic, and to provide information and other support for pilots when able. In some countries, ATC may also play a security or defence role, or be run entirely by the military. The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) though, strongly recommends the separation of Civil and Military RadarIn addition to its primary function, the ATC can provide additional services such as providing information to pilots, weather and navigation information and NOTAMs (Notices To Air Men). In the case of the IL-76, it was not fitted with the collision avoidance systems and this was made worse by a non-functional radar at the airport

However a senior source at CAA downplayed the importance of the radar. He admitted that it's importance for enhancement of air safety but that its absence does not pose a big danger. He said Entebbe airport space is very small and aircrafts can safely fly in and out without a radar.

Indeed in the case of the IL-76, a Notice to All Airmen (NOATAM) had been issued to all air crew flying into Entebbe notifying them about the status of the radar.

The CAA source said this is the practice when an airport radar is not operational but it does not disrupt the normal air traffic.

This view is corroborated by Capt. Babu. He says presence of a functioning radar means the cost of the airport insurance reduces as it is highly deemed safe and thus allows more air traffic at shorter intervals. However, he said pilots are trained even to fly on airports without radar implying that an airport without a radar can still operate, although with some safety issues.

Radars are used by the army especially air force to detect and track planes that violates or enters the country's air space. This helps in detecting enemy attack through air. This means that without a functioning radar, a country is highly vulnerable to enemy attack.

Indeed the radar's breakdown made the work of the Mudoola commission difficult as they could not obtain certain useful information about the cause of the plane crash.


One of the witnesses who were fishing on the lake at the time of the crash told the committee that the plane looked strange. "One of the fishermen said it was unusual that the aircraft did not have front lights, but only red indicators," the report quoted the witness. The witnesses also told the commission that he had noticed fire coming from the left side of the plane before the crash. This account tells the extent of the aircraft's mechanical condition at takeoff.

"The loss of engine power was possible based on witness accounts, a recent even in which a loss of power occurred and the fact that the engines had exceeded their service life," the report says.

The report also says the sirens at the Entebbe Marine South/North marines were not working at station and at the time of the crash. Even when they responded they had no capacity to fight fire on water. Indeed the first CAA rescuers at the crash scene had hand fire extinguishers which could not put out the smouldering fire. "There was a fire, about 10x15 metres, burning on the water. Because of the size of the fire, it was decided that the fire be allowed to self-extinguish, which it did about an hour later," reads the report. "Some of the personnel stated that their training did not consist of fire-fighting on water. The marines did not have equipment to fight fire on water surfaces. "

However, a source inside CAA admitted they have no capacity to fight fire on water. The source said said they usually wait for the fire to self-extinguish, then they go for rescue operations.

Competence of the crew

The crew comprising two Russians and two Ukrainians had less or no sleep at all the day preceding the flight. They reported to bed at 3am and by 4am they were heading to Entebbe Airport to fly to Mogadishu. This suggests they had little sleep time and were suffering from fatigue, which could have caused the crew to doze off, leading to loss of control of the aircraft.


But other witnesses who were with the crew in the last hours to the flight said they had been drinking alcohol. This suggests a combination of drunkenness and fatigue. This is not surprising considering the record of Russian pilots and their excessive alcohol drinking problem. In November 2008, two very senior Russian Pilots were arrested at Manchester Airport in the UK after they were found smelling alcohol. When tested, they had more than the acceptable alcohol levels. They were due to fly an aircraft from Manchester to Moscow. In February 2009, passengers who accused the Russian captain of an Aeroflot flight of being drunk were told by the airline that intoxication was 'no big deal'. "It's not such a big deal if the pilot is drunk," one representative said, according to the English-language Moscow Times, which had a reporter on board. "Really, all he has to do is press a button and the plane flies itself. The worst that could happen is he'll trip over something in the cockpit." Part of the problem may be the important cultural role vodka and alcohol play in Russian society. "Moderate" drinking is considered healthy by many Russians. Which begs the question, should the CAA in Uganda pay closer attention to Russian pilots as was the case in Manchester and if by admission of their own national carrier, "drinking is "no big deal"?

However, the investigations reveal a more serious breach of air safety standards. For example, the IL-76 flight navigator Eugeny Korolev had a forged first class navigation licence. This means he was not competent to fly the ill-fated plane. The commission discovered that the licence he was using had been issued by the Ukrainian aviation authority to another person. "Navigator Licence First Class No. 000316 which you have in possession was issued on 08 October 1996 in another navigator name. Please, pay attention to the fact that the photo of Korol is stuck over the stamp. Therefore that certificate in the name of Korol should be considered illegal," reads a letter the accredited Russian representative Yuri Grigoriev wrote to Mudoola's commission.

Co-pilot Vovchenko Alexander had served in the Russian Air Force from 1988 until 1999 when he retired. In April 2008 he joined Vertikal-T airline as a co-pilot. Checks confirmed he was fit to work as pilot until May 2009. However, in October 2008 he asked for leave and the Vertikal-T airline management accepted but they were unaware of his employment in Africa by the time of the Entebbe crash. This suggests Vovchenko was working as a mercenary pilot. Even his competence to fly the IL-76 was questionable because of lack of practice and requisite flying since retirement from the Russian air force in 1999. This finding is corroborated by the Russian representative Grigoriev.

"It should be noted that Vovchenko did not fly IL-76 for about nine years. You can require information about his rating to fly IL-76 from Aerolift airline .... Most probably Vovchenko's authorisation to fly in IL-76 after a big break in flights involved serious violations," Grigoriev wrote to the commission.

Even the captain Victor Kovalev's competence was questionable. He served in the Russian air force between 1998 and 2001 and retired. By 2009 when he was in Uganda, it was not known whether he was fit to fly. A letter from the Russia representative says: "I have failed to get information from CAA RF about Kovalev's airline pilot licence. May be Kovalev did not have airline pilot licence."

"Apart from the flight engineer, the investigation did not determine that the crew was properly trained, experienced, proficient, and certified in accordance with applicable company and regulatory requirements," Mudoola's commission states in its report.

The Mudoola Commission findings may come as news to many but not exactly surprising to a citizenry who have come to almost accept the word "corruption" as an integral part of the execution of duty in public office. It hopefully will give the CAA a tool to check the legality of the operators that apply to operate flights especially those fifth freedom operations ("Fifth-freedom" operations in aviation lingo are defined as the ability of an airline to carry traffic between two foreign cities on a flight that also goes to or comes from its home country).

Business

Hopefully this will also mean that the Aid agencies and the large logistics companies will start using legitimate operators rather than using the cheapest option and feeding the cowboys that bring the industry into such disrepute. It would be nice if a respectable government official was to pick-up on this story line and ask Dyncorp some awkward questions why they persist in using this type of operator.

Hopefully the CAA will be brave enough to look at banning those operators that cannot show that they have put money into the maintenance/prolongation programme that is offered by aircraft manufacturers - Respectable carriers put their aircraft through such programmes. Operators that comply with programmess cannot compete with the cowboys on charter rates, but at least they can sleep knowing their aircraft are maintained to the required standard and that their crews are not pressured to do anything unlawful. People's lives are worth more than a few extra dollars profit on a risky charter. "

Shaman
28th Jan 2012, 18:31
V interesting - thanks for posting this.

flyboyike
28th Jan 2012, 19:29
TIA- This Is Africa.

AircraftOperations
28th Jan 2012, 22:17
If one charter company such as Dynacorp decides that it won't offer the cheapest solutions to their client, then that is admirable. However, another company probably will.
Until all "brokers" decide between them that they only offer legitimate carriers for charter requests, or the client specifically demands all paperwork at time of quote, then these cowboys will continue to be booked for flights - both for "businessmen" and for NGOs/the military.

maxred
29th Jan 2012, 14:09
I probably know the answer, but why would individuals (pilots), fly such heaps, aware of the 100% probabilty that it may fall out of the sky, or through their own inexperience allow it to fall out of the sky.

That report made quite astonishing reading. It is akin to near suicide missions.

Is it the thrill? The money? The fact that it hits at authority? Or just plane nuts?

zlocko2002
29th Jan 2012, 14:53
For those poor :mad: it was money...more money than they can get in any normal job they could get.

That was probably only job they could get...

FGC
29th Jan 2012, 14:55
Maxred, I think it's the Vodka.

DX Wombat
29th Jan 2012, 15:53
John Farley

You seem to know very little about the center of lift on some Russian designs.172 Driver - there is a saying about it being better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and confirm that you are. With that comment you haven't just given confirmation, you have shouted it loud and long and also shot yourself in both (or maybe more) of your left feet. You obviously have not the faintest idea of who John Farley actually is, or of the great respect in which he is held. I suggest a little research is in order followed by an apology.
His response to your idiotic comment is one of extreme restraint and modesty.

MELDreamer
29th Jan 2012, 16:28
172 Driver - I suggest a little research is in order...To save him the bother:
A View from the Hover (http://www.aviewfromthehover.com/johnfarley.php)

JEM60
29th Jan 2012, 18:25
Brilliant book. Got it from my local library [sorry JF] Couldn't put it down.
172 DRIVER. You could learn rather a lot from this book!!!!

Phalanger
30th Jan 2012, 06:05
John Farley (http://www.pprune.org/members/9046-john-farley),
Just with that video the reason the ATC makes the joke about it not being over yet is because that the aircraft is doing the take off to the south, which faces a small mountain range. They can not be seen in the haze which is sitting just in front of them, but they are not really anything to worry about.

The runway is fine and has takes many large aircraft (used diplomatically long-haul and for diversions for Sydney/Melbourne).

jetdrvr
13th Feb 2012, 09:53
Ethiopian, Kenyan, and AU Troops are in Somalia and have been kicking al Shabab butt for quite some time for the greater good of mankind and starving Somalis. The AU recently booted and blasted al Shabab out of Mog. So the cargo could very well have been tents and water purification equipment. There seems to be a lot of conclusion jumping on this topic.