Jetstar its all about choice, well sort of..

[uratool]

Well Jetstars its now March and its all quiet. Or is it JPA?

For mine, there seems to be a distinct last of interest from the more senior crews at Jetstar to move across to the NZ operation or anywhere else for that matter. To the point where its stating to cause managment some indigestion.

To try to ease the pain..... rather than take some Mylanta I suspect the proverbial atomic bomb maybe about to be dropped on the boys and girls in the Southern Jetstar bases to encourage some of those happy smiling Jetstar TV "choices" to be made.

Heres a theory......

First of all to achieve the correct result (choices) it will necessitate the "re-allocation of assets". Has anyone heard that Melbourne base is going to loose an aircraft??.....Hmmm if it did the base would be over crewed..right?? (work with me here a little)

Next.....Say that Hobart and Avalon then also had their "assets re-allocated"...Well possible maybe even probable.....(Now we're getting somewhere)

All of a sudden Jetstar have no base in either Hobart or Avalon + excess crew in Melbourne by a few.

NZ crewing issure resolved because the Boys and Girls at happy smiling Jetstar its all about "choice" (TV ad not my words), now get to make a "choice". Obviously Melbourne would be/is mostly the preferred "choice" but thats not an available "choice" anymore because itself has excess crew. Boys and Girls you're "choice" is now Auckland or may I say it Darwin....That is if you still want a job.

I maybe wrong but I'm sure someone out there knows something in regards to this.........

I just hope those eunuchs that call themselves the JPA remember who they actually represent! (Thats crew not management in case you HAVE actually forgotten). I suspect the the time to stand and be counted is approaching JPA; EVERYONE in the pilot community is watching you.

Now I'm going to grab a drink, a packet of crisps (paid for of course)and sit back and watch cause this is going to get very interesting.......

Oh, and before all the bash the posted messages come in......remember its not me who's standing behind making you weak at the knees if you get my drift..:ok:

[Wod]

A longwinded way to restate the old truism that the only constant is change.

Not confined to aviation, either.

[UDH]

So Avalon and Hobart based tech crew are about to get introduced to Bruce B., johnson!

Lovely.

ON YA JETSTAR !

[uratool]

waren9,

Thanks for the private message:D. Perhaps if you've got something to say you might like to put it out there for EVERYONE to see.

Its fact and common knowledge that some crew at Jetstar are sick and tired of comments and deals done behind closed doors hence the reason I felt it necessary to post in the first place.

As far as my last post goes why don't you get the JPA to issue a statement on where they stand if its "going to piss people off" (your words not mine.):ok:

[UDH]

What is that Warren 9 had to say that he doesn't want to share?

[funty]

So from the sound of all this Hobart and Avalon are going the same way as Adelaide.

Feel sorry the crew if this is the case although I'm sure the JPA and management would be talking to their members/Crew already if it was actually happening. If not then, the who's rogering who question might need to be asked.....

I hope I'm wrong

[waren9]

Uratool.

Havent disagreed with anything you've said at all. In fact, any bystander will find it easy to see the scenario you propose is probably roughly what is going to play out over time.

All I did was suggest that there might be a slightly more effective and constructive way of making progress than this forum. Thats all.

W9

[Outtahere]

And to top it all off, a long line of potential 'new' training captains willing to train their 'low cost' Akl based replacements despite the Pac Blue example of how it will all transpire. The race to the bottom seems to be quite competitive.

Its not management that destroy your T &C's, its the pilots.

[2FarCanard]

Latest i have heard is that they are RHS endorsing line Captains whether you want to RHS fly or not, during your Cyclic.


As you said its all about choice. Not


Edit after the above post: Won't be because they are training either.

[UDH]

Waren 9

But I thought this forum would be ideal for such a post, at least it is out there for all to see. (albeit the post is longwinded and difficult to follow)

Continual cloak and dagger does not assist any profession.
If all you were going to do "was suggest that there might be a slightly more effective and constructive way of making progress than this forum." all you had to do was post exactly that... on this forum.

[Chocks Away]

There are alot of Chess pieces on the board with alot of people watching too and IF Pornstar came up with a better package than the current low standard in NZ, they could effectively ground the competition - Jetcon, PB and AirNZ with resignations... "if they were smart"!

[rescue 1]

a better package than the current low standard in NZ, they could effectively ground the competition

And they could certainly have the choice of the most experienced.

[Muff Hunter]

uratool,

the previous JPA to say the least were a disgrace...but the curent group are busting their humps to get a better deal for all J* crew, while trying to establish AIPA as the representing union.

the HBA & AV bases will be closed with the crew having to relocate to DRW....or take a redundancy package.

their is going to be an FSO out this week or next explaining the above..

if this is the case, management will soon see what a group of disgruntled employees can cost the company....

stand by.

[porch monkey]

Just goes to prove it really doesn't matter which airline you work for anymore...... They're all the same on the inside.....

[lunars]

what about the AKL base anyone done the interviews any offers .......
will it be an internal transfer for many as Hobart,Avalon are closing ????

[blow.n.gasket]

How long before there is an announcement of the CHC base closing??:eek:

[TMAK]

I think the plan is for 2 or even 3 aircraft to remain based in CHC....so should be safe....

[zed583]

Not once they get their NZ domestic operation up and going. The current CHC base will be closed as soon as possible for eba pilot's, why would they operate that base at 30-40% greater crew costs if they don,t have too.
We have just seen how ready they are to close bases and uproot at least 120 tech crew at the drop of a hat. CHC is gone as far as jetstar EBA pilot's are concerned, it's just a matter of time.

[UDH]

Waren 9,
As I have previously stated in this thread "Continual cloak and dagger does not assist any profession".

So please refrain from your rude and somewhat poorly written Private Messages you keep sending me.

Oh, P.S. For others, they are printed below.

P.P.S. I have not nor ever have, poked the JPA with a stick or any other pointy object.


PM's
________________________________________
UDH

A PM is exactly that- a private message.

If I wanted you or anyone else to have read it, I would have posted it publicly or cc'd you in.

Pull your head in.

W9


your jpa posts
________________________________________
Uratool and UDH

Poking (the JPA) with a stick on an annonymous forum I think is both somewhat cowardly and unproductive.

Given that management are aware of what gets posted here, is the picture of a pilot group prepared to show division publicly what you really what you intend to put across?

If youre both that concerned, roll up your sleeves, give the JPA a ring and ask how you can help.

Thats not to say we cant all have some bloody big arguments about where the JPA should be pointing, but to do it here? Surely you guys are smarter than that.

W9

[mohikan]

Seeing as JQ pilots refuse to countenance having proper, professionally run and resourced industrial relations advocacy, and fund growth and promotions by undercutting other pilots to obtain aircraft and flying then I and many others on this forum have no sympathy for you.

You reap what you sow.....

[RFN]

The undercutters being undercut...

[max autobrakes]

Mohikan when are you going to spell like a "real" pilot.
It's sew not sow!:}
or is that sow not sew.
Bugga, I give up, I'd better go back to knitting.
Or shud that be nitting?
Oh bugga I give up, I should go back to writing Flight Standing Orders!:ok:

[waren9]

Sadly, theres some truth to mohikans post. good luck with whatever it is your trying to achieve with this thread fellas.

[teresa green]

Guys, just putting in my whinge, not once but twice in the last fortnight, on two seperate flights to SYD from OOL, the aircraft waited off airbridge about 30 ft out and on BOTH occasions the PAX were allowed to stand, get down luggage, and continue as aircraft taxied in, aircraft moving, pax jostling luggage, perhaps a little talk to the cabin manager in the future as their trainers don't seem to be doing their job, and if a CASA person on board.................?:rolleyes:

[Dash1]

The undercutters being undercut? Does that mean Jetstar NZ crew flying Jetstar Oz routes domestically or internationally? If that were to happen I would be concerned for all Australian based crew in Jetstar. It would be interesting to find out whether Jetstar are recruiting in New Zealand currently while stopping recruiting in Australia. The economic downturn could explain a slowdown in recruitment here but then when things improve will Jetstar commence recruitment in Australia or recruit overseas?

[Condition lever]

Undercutters.....????
Wouldn't that have started with QF mainline crew taking lower terms and conditions to bypass their mates for a 767 command in CNS????

[Horatio Leafblower]

I think you have hit the nail on the head - and it paints a picture for not only AUS JQ but QF domestic crews as well.

I have an application in for J* and, like all other J* applicants, I received an email inviting applications for J*NZ. They made it very clear that there will be NO transfers to JQ AUS and meanwhile JQ AUS is not recruiting at all.

KRudd has only last month been to UnZud to broker a deal to make trans-tasman flights "domestic".

Qualifications are mutuilly ricognised through the TTMRA.

Language and skin colour aren't a barrier to the prijudices of the gineral publuc.

The stage is set for a wholesale export of high-paying Australian jobs to New Zealand. It will happen soon, it will happen quickly and smoothly, and to the general public it will be imperceptible.

Right under the AFAP and AIPA's noses :=

I ask again - where are the angry public statements from OUR union? :yuk:

[hongkongfooey]

They made it very clear that there will be NO transfers to JQ AUS
and yet Jetstar Pacific get a seniority number from day 1 with right to transfer to Oz after 2 years. With just a few more different pays and conditions you blokes might be able to overtake CX :{

[Sand dune Sam]

Condition Lever..no not really, it would of started when Qantas bought Impulse.

[Zed]

Lets see Sky Gods there is Jutconnect and Aus airlines and! National Jet.

Years before Impulse was bought buy QF.

Thanks for your help. Sky Gods

[Dash1]

Hlb,
You raise some interesting points particularly with respect to KRudd's timing and lack of union action. Talking stimulus packages I read travel agents are packaging overseas holidays to NZ, South Pacific and some Asian destinations for around the $900 mark. I expect the economies in those countries will do well from the stimulus package. Sorry to diverge back to subject. I have friends who are teachers and recently travelled Jstar to Asia. They were surprised there was one Australian based flight attendant with the remaining crew being from overseas bases. I don't know if this is representative of Jstar crew flying to Asian ports so I'm happy to be corrected. They were concerned if there were Australian jobs being lost overseas. I asked them two questions:
1. What does a first year teaching graduate in NSW earn? They thought approx $43000.
2. What would be the reaction from the teachers federation in NSW should the NSW education department begin recruiting teachers from NZ and south east Asian countries to teach in Australia for $20K-$30K?
There was response was it would never happen in Australia. Hmmmmmm.

[zed583]

Well I,ll tell you Dash. The flights out of Sin -Per return, the PER-BALI and the PER-JAKARTA flights are crewed by THAI flight Attendants.
The CNS-DN-SIN return flights are now crewed by Singapore Nationals, Except for the odd aussie cabin manager. What,s most disturbing is that Cns aussie flt attendants were forced off this route with forced relocations to other bases or to domestic operations. These foreign nationals are flying domestic sectors ie Cns -Dn at the expence of Aussie,s because they pay these girls about half as much as an Aussie.
Not only that but they are about to introduce a scheme by which the foreign girls will have to share hotel rooms on Overnights. When I tell themthey should protest this and that they would be very unlikely to get away with this here, they reply , so sorry but 5000 people Bankok apply for job, they just sack us we object.
Well come to think of it they're dead right, the dirty c**** would find a way. Dash your scenario is spot on , WE ARE ALL BEING LINED UP.

[Mr. Hat]

foreign girls will have to share hotel rooms on Overnightsyou're fn kidding aren't you?

[waren9]

Nope hes not.

And wait till you here the one about JQAisa pilots over here on "short term" secondments.

[neville_nobody]

They will build an airline with foreign based labour, paying them less than the cost of living in Australia if they could. It is happening in IT/computer industry, they did in the states with the RJ's, they are trying in Europe with the whole EU setup (ie no borders) and now they will try it in Australia with Asian and NZ crews.

Thankfully for pilots we won't be undercut by Asian counterparts because the airlines in Australia won't want to have the training costs of Asian airlines. They will however start running everything out of NZ with subbies flying around in Jetstar/QF/VB aircraft. You will just work for a labour hire firm who has a contract to provide labour for your particular airline.

Begs the questions:

Why didn't the unions go for scope clauses like the US unions?
How does CASA regulate foreign operators flying in its jurisdiction?
Maybe AIPA should have let Impulse to join them eh? Good decision that one!
How can Cabin Crew share hotels rooms under all these new Fatigue Management systems??

[freddyKrueger]

Maybe AIPA should have let Impulse to join them eh? Good decision that one! Lets just say the AIPA president who made that decision when on to become the Chief Pilot not long after.

[Jetsbest]

"There are none so hard to help as those who will not help themselves." :hmm:

Some here need to stop blaming pilots on supposedly "better" contracts for their own persecuted states. Leveraging off higher pay to get the entry-level job, then crying about the lack of help in improving the "new-low" conditions is simplistic in the extreme. :rolleyes:

[max autobrakes]

Unfortunately at the time AIPA couldn't legally cover the Impulse boys even if they wanted to.No point in letting the truth get in the way of a good story though!
As for scope clauses, been tied on many times in the past but management were two steps ahead and wouldn't have a bar of it.

[aulglarse]

Right said there Freddy... GD's promise came true.

As for sharing accomodation, flighties of some asian airlines usually share a room, apparantly it's been the norm for quite a while.

[Dash1]

So let me get this right, its starts with overseas flight attendants taking jobs away from Australian Jetstar flight attendants followed soon after by foreign pilots taking jobs from Australian Jetstar pilots? As my teacher friends would say, would never happen in Australia. Hmmmmmm. Interesting comment about Impulse and AIPA.

[waren9]

Lets not dwell on when it started. Lets have a think about whats gonna fix it.

One union.

[UDH]

W9,
I cannot believe it, I agree with you!
Well said.

[Al E. Vator]

Absolutely right.

You guys need to put the past behind you, let history-affected egos take a rest, get cohesive and have one STRONG representative body.

It doesn't matter which group you use to represent you (though from a distance the JPA seems weak) so long as you are a united group. No more of this silly "I'm ex-Impulse, or ex-Ansett, or ex-Dispute" stuff. Move on.

Last year there was a pilot shortage that was killing airlines worldwide and starting to severely hurt those in Australia. The current financial downturn won't last forever and because there are no new pilots being manufactured but many aircraft on order, that shortage will soon be bigger and 'better' than last year.

Thus, don't go throwing away Terms and Conditions to opportunistic airline managers at this time. To force pilots to continuously move bases (thus houses, kids schools etc) at the whim of today's favourite management whiz-kid is a case in point. Start getting tactical and apply a little pressure back on those managers.

Rightly or wrongly, the Australian public will not accept say Indonesian pilots replacing you guys to save money (there are too many images of unsafe Asian airlines that such a move would be a PR nightmare) - so you are very valuable assets. For goodness sake, take advantage of that position.

However as it stands, some 22 year-old management graduate may decide that with 787's flying to Europe, it is financially prudent to base say 60% of pilots in the hub at Chiang Mai and you will then be told to move there or leave. What will you do then?

Dixon allegedly referred to QF pilots as 'soft-cocks' because he was amazed at how wimpy and easily manipulated they were. It seems that stance is even more pronounced when it comes to Jetstar pilots.

You need to change that if you want a reasonable career in the future. You need to start formulatin action-plans NOW.

[Friction Nut]

Well said to you to Al..

Lets stand up and fight for our rights... For once, and for all... It has to be done... Dixon was right with that comment. We are... And enough is enough.

To the unions, get it together will you. We only need one union, and if we were all a part of that one union, imagine the strength.

Lets stop being weak, wimpy, and manipulative. And lets stop it now!!!

FN.

[Hugh Mungus]

Yeagh Right on!!!...lets sit here on an Annonymous Forum with Made up names and post feel good dribble to one another.....Sheeeeesh!!

[Al E. Vator]

No - get off your complacent arse and actually DO something rather than (as per usual) making stupid (and anonymous) snipes on PPRuNe.

Any wonder we are in such a state when this attitude prevails.

[Tee Emm]

As for sharing accomodation, flighties of some asian airlines usually share a room, apparantly it's been the norm for quite a while

Mutual protection from prowling pilots, maybe?:ok:

[aulglarse]

Ahem, no comment........;)

[Mr. Hat]

neville, sounds like a viscous cycle really. Because what will eventually happen will be a norm where people will turn up, stuff their pockets with experience and fk off (not caring to improve the conditions as its just all too hard). Its very clear that companies that have been around for longer with less turn over have better conditions in general (Qanats BA ect and even VB if you compare to JQ pound for pound). So I think the execs have cottened on to opening new companies every 5-10 years is the way to keep the costs going down. Knowing that Shiny Jet Syndrome and highly automated aircraft will keep their dream going. Unfortunately it will take an inexpeirenced under paid crew to put something into the side of hill to convince the Australian public that a 50k pa pilot isn't a good thing.

As for putting the past behind us. Well this is the exact reason why it all keeps going down. And the reality? I can't see it changing - I can't ever see JQ and QF and VB pilots saying "enoughs enough" side by side, it will never happen. Whats more goverments are secretly (and some not secretly) happy to see wages go down no matter what side you are into.

Crew sharing rooms really takes the cake for me! What is this? An fn pijama party?

A pesimistic veiw i know but it looks like reality to me.

[Beeroclock]

To stop the rot we as in pilots in all airlines need to be in one union!!:ok:

[blow.n.gasket]

Easier said than done BeerO!

[snoop doggy dog]

Everyone needs to back up each other and get on with it.

You guys are the Union. You Guys make up the Union. It is up to YOU.

You can make a difference. Your attitude makes a differences. You stand up and be counted.

It's up to YOU. :ok:

If you leave it to someone else, it wont happen.

Take contol of your own life and make a difference.

"You can't change the past, but, you can make a difference to the future."

[Al E. Vator]

Problem is people like Hugh Mungus feel such sentiments are just "posting feel good dribble to one another". Therein lies the very attitude that condemns us. Sad I am a peer of individuals like this.

Pilots care only about themselves and in being so are too self-oriented to realise that by becoming united they have a greater chance of achieving their aims.

The older I get the harsher becomes the reality that I suspect pilots will never get their act together. Too many ego's, too little intelligence.

I can but hope but I suspect I am dreaming.

[Zed]

It dosen't help when 4 Jetstar FOs have taken commands in with Jetstar NZ.

[pigdriver]

Thats a bit rough Zed, especially when most of the so called senior ones ( and with that I mean senior by the so called seniority list only, as alot of these guys have only flown up and down the east coast of aust for the last 5 yrs or so in a jet) are ex impulse and got their first cmd by under cutting everybody else.....( qantas, national jet etc)
Funny how things change, once people get what they want...
I am not saying I agree with these f/o's going over to NZ, but I would be very careful to take it out on these guys, when alot of nopulse guys have a long record of doing it themselves...