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ONTPax
9th Nov 2001, 22:42
From today's LA TIMES... :D
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-000089571nov09.column?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dcolumns

November 9, 2001

Steve Lopez:
Points West
How Do the Airlines Infuriate Fliers? Let Me Count the Ways

To the surprise of absolutely no one except airline executives, air travel continues to tank, with no quick recovery in sight.

"Suffice to say, demand is off," said the befuddled boss of Northwest. Delta's chief said business is down as much as 40% from this time last year.

Chopping some fares has not helped. United Airlines commercials in which giddy employees extol the virtues of flying have not helped, despite the one in which a pilot assures us he is the kind of guy who really means it when he says hello. I wondered whether, with that $15-billion federal bailout, you and I had paid for this clod to tell us he's not kidding when he says hello.

But I digress. Fortunately for the airlines, I am the kind of guy who really means it when I say I think I can help.

The economic slump and the drop in business travel are obviously a big part of the problem. But indulge me in a wild guess here. You think part of the problem is that the airlines haven't done zip to significantly bolster security since Sept. 11? If United had spent on security what it spent on those hokey commercials, we might be more inclined to fly.

Congress has not distinguished itself either, and continues bickering over an airport security bill that should not have taken more than two days to put together, tops.

Then there's President Bush, who went to Chicago's O'Hare International Airport to tell us it was safe to fly, and then opposed federalizing airport security. Last week, not far from where Bush gave us the green light, some wacko got through a United security checkpoint with nine knives and a stun gun. He might as well have brought the bazooka along too.

But I've written plenty about security risks and the lap-dog regulators who make them possible. Today, I'd like to fill airline executives in on just a few of the 1 million or so other outrages that make travel by burro seem a reasonable alternative.

You're ready to cash in your hard-earned frequent flier miles and find that although the flight you want is half empty, you're out of luck. They've already given up the handful of seats allotted for freebies.

You make a reservation three weeks in advance and they refuse to give you a seat assignment, and then when you get to the airport they cram you into a middle seat, sandwiched between a bad case of bronchitis and a national pie-eating champion.

You see a great deal advertised, call the airline, wait on hold long enough to lose several relatives, and then find out the terrific $249 fare is actually $1,760 on the days you've got to be in Cleveland.

You get to the airport, stand in line like a cow in a cattle chute, and when you finally work your way to the counter, some clerk starts with the typing, staring zombie-like into a monitor, absent any recognizable human quality, typing and typing and typing as if trying to make contact beyond the known universe.

Your travel plans change, you call the airline, and they flat-out refuse to give you a refund and whack you $100 a ticket to make the slightest little change.

You'd like to leave at 10 a.m. instead of 11? Hundred bucks.

You'd like to leave Tuesday instead of Wednesday? Hundred bucks.

You've traveled a million miles on this airline and wonder if they might make an exception in appreciation of your business? Hundred bucks.

In Montrose, Leslie Emer of Village Travel hears complaints about the airlines all day long, and she has a pet peeve of her own.

"Why do they always advertise a one-way fare?" she asks. "It's like advertising the price of one shoe based on buying a pair."

Emer is ticked off because the airlines have tried to bury her industry, skimping on commissions and undercutting it with online deals. "If they put us entirely out of business, they'll raise fares and customers will have nowhere else to go. As it is, I can sometimes find cheaper fares than the ones they offer on the Internet."

No industry, anywhere, at any time, has had worse customer relations, treated its own employees more shabbily, or spent more time lobbying for the freedom to continue all of the above.

And poor, beleaguered airline execs wonder what to do?

My first suggestion would be for the CEOs themselves to spend a few weeks making their own reservations by phone, schlepping their own bags, flying coach and sampling the microwaved cardboard they call dinner.

Then they ought to check out Southwest Airlines, the only carrier that seems to have any idea how to treat customers.

And finally, if they want our business back, they ought to spend more than a nickel on safety, quit the bait-and-switch air fare tricks and get rid of the ridiculous restrictions.

You'd like to depart on Monday instead of Tuesday?

No problem.

No charge.

Thank you for calling.

*

Steve Lopez writes Monday, Wednesday and Friday. He can be reached at [email protected]

gyrohead
9th Nov 2001, 23:02
I'm only laughing because its so true!!! :D :D :D

The Guvnor
9th Nov 2001, 23:42
The man's spot on!!

Customer service ... what an alien concept! :D :eek: :D

phd
10th Nov 2001, 01:27
I am on this wavelength Mr. Lopez - but there are not many who are. See my comments in the 'self loading freight' thread and note the many negative responses I received when cricising the appallingly bad so-called 'service' that many airlines provide their customers. The airline industry still has a lot to learn about the true meaning of the word service and the Regulators have even more to learn about risk management in the areas of safety & security. Let's hope they catch up quickly before too many more airline businesses fold. Only when passengers truly feel they are safe, secure and getting good value for money in the air will they begin coming back to fly in the numbers we need.

-----------------------------------------

That's torn it!

BRUpax
10th Nov 2001, 02:21
If you're going to criticise and compare, then be fair. Southwest also charge for changes in reservations (with the exception of the unrestricted fare of course - same as the majors). Other than that you're spot on.

penguin
10th Nov 2001, 04:05
I concur! :cool:

exeng
10th Nov 2001, 04:57
Good post ONT pax'

The recent shennanigans with regard to security evident with the USA majors leave me speechless (well nearly!).

What will it take to make them learn? I was in shock (I really do mean 'SHOCK') for about 24 hrs as Sep 11th developed.

The CEO's of the American majors are doing nothing to help the confidence of the American flying public.


Regards
Exeng

411A
10th Nov 2001, 05:12
...nothing except running to DC with begging bowl in hand looking for Federal bailout cash.
Those airlines that offer poor service (and on-time dependability, security etc) deserve to fold...only that way will the others learn a lesson. But what do they do instead...offer huge payouts to pilots and execs and then cry to the government when plans go awry.
In nearly every other business, the customer is king...except airlines. Disgusting scenario.

ONTPax
13th Nov 2001, 06:18
411A wrote:

Those airlines that offer poor service (and on-time dependability, security etc) deserve to fold...only that way will the others learn a lesson.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I noticed from your post that you're a resident of Arizona, 411A. Phoenix, possibly? Are you willing to allow Phoenix's favorite airline, America West, to bite the dust due to poor management and those other reasons you mentioned?

I think the state of Arizona, on several occasions, has come up with some "sweetheart deals" to make sure HP stays afloat.

On those occasions where I've flown HP, their customer service counter is always on the brink of a full-scale riot due to irate and mistreated passengers. Not a good way to run an airline. :eek: :mad:

N380UA
13th Nov 2001, 11:46
:D :D :D :D :D :D
too right!!!!

fionan
14th Nov 2001, 09:12
they cram you into a middle seat, sandwiched between a bad case of bronchitis and a national pie-eating champion.

You see a great deal advertised, call the airline, wait on hold long enough to lose several relatives, and then find out the terrific $249 fare is actually $1,760
You get to the airport, stand in line like a cow in a cattle chute, and when you finally work your way to the counter, some clerk starts with the typing, staring zombie-like into a monitor, absent any recognizable human quality, typing and typing and typing as if trying to make contact beyond the known universe

Your travel plans change, you call the airline, and they flat-out refuse to give you a refund and whack you $100 a ticket to make the slightest little change.

the airlines have tried to bury her industry, skimping on commissions and undercutting it with online deals.

Guvnor,
The first quote would apply to any low-cost/economy seat. The second almost exclusively to low-cost outfits.
The third to any airline unless you are travelling up the front. The fourth to your favourite airline almost exclusively. ( Do not not fly O'Wearyair if the weather forecast is dodgy ).
As for the fifth quote Mr. O'Weary pioneered that.

What I don't understand is after reading your oft stated philosophy on aviation, you agree with this fools vilification of everything you have stood for!!
;) ;) ;)

411A
14th Nov 2001, 09:39
Yes indeed ONTpax, especially to HP, their service is abysmal, to be avoided at all costs.
Not only that, but some years ago they sacked most of their maintenance staff and outsourced to the max, which resulted in LARGE FAA fines, well deserved IMHO.
A perfect example of management run amok and an airline run into the ground. Their employees deserve better.
Sh@t runs downhill.

TimJCarter
14th Nov 2001, 10:42
Just goes to show that "passenger service" is an oxymoron, just like "airline food" and "military intelligence".

Epsom Hold 2
14th Nov 2001, 15:17
Don't forget "socialist worker".

While we're on the subject: "Pretentious, moi?" "I would never exaggerate in a million years" and "I would never be patronising, I assume you know the meaning of the word?"

Epsom Hold 2
14th Nov 2001, 15:20
And without wishing to labour the point, "airline food" as an oxymoron reminds me that Boeing pilots in Seattle refer to the cafeteria as the "food simulator".

kemo
15th Nov 2001, 03:52
.........I also hear that Aer Lingus call one of their simulators Saint Thetic... :)

(edited for bod spilling)

[ 14 November 2001: Message edited by: kemo ]

PAXboy
15th Nov 2001, 04:41
In 22 years of work, I have been permanent and contractor in: Retail, Local Govt, Banking, Pharmaceutical, Plastics, Agri-busines, Sea Container frieght, Air frieght, Energy and some others.

The bad news is that they, almost without exception, treat the customers they same as described here. They ALL p*** money down the drain on pet projects and downright stupid projects. THEN tell staff they cannot pay better wages.

I work in technology and increasingly find myself hired to clean up the mess of someone's project that went wrong. I have watched a company give a handsome retirement party for someone and then told me that they will not spend any more money to fix the problems he made. That, after all, would be admitting that it was not the Great Success, that they told the MD it was! :rolleyes:

As with any field, when one has seen it from the inside, it is pretty shoddy. I find this when I talk to one friend who is a barrister and another that is a doctor and one who is a funeral director!
So, I do not doubt what was said by Steve Lopez and have experienced many of those things myself in 35 years as PAX. The bitter truth is that this is normal human behaviour. Which is to say:

1) Do the minimum for as long as possible
2) When found out, find someone -ANYONE- to blame
3) Use jargon and bull at all times
4) Always say that it would be difficult to change anything ...

I am sure that you can all continue the list!

slim_slag
15th Nov 2001, 05:13
Southwest are easily the best airline in America. Their fare structure is open and straightforward, if you change your flight you pay full fare. Their cheap tickets are cheeeeeeep. Their full fare tickets are cheep, and once you have full fare you turn and if there is room on the plane they let you on - its that simple. I can tell you within 10% the price of a Southwest full fare ticket from anywhere to anywhere at anytime, they don't f^%K with it like the others. Other majors have to match their prices in the same market out here in the west and they must hate it. If Southwest don't fly in that market the majors will rip you off something rotten (dollars per mile).

The only problem with Southwest is they don't interline baggage - and they don't fly to Colorado. That's because the airports are too expensive there. Everything else is superior, and I don't care about not getting a seat allocated on their short sectors. Their frequent flier plan is the best in the world. It's a delight to fly with FA's who try to make you laugh and wear a smile.

America West are the worst airline in America. Bad. Bad. Bad. Appaling, I've flown more reliable airlines in the developing world. I'll fly America West only if they are the only non-stop service. A bit like I only fly our favourite carrier across the Atlantic if they are the only non-stop service.

And now the airlines go cap in hand to the Federal Government for a bail out because of their ridiculous business plans. Not even the insurance companies had the nerve to do that! Lopez is right on the money.

[ 15 November 2001: Message edited by: slim_slag ]

gaunty
15th Nov 2001, 07:37
Steve Lopez

Funny that it seems to be an International phenomenon.
Maybe they learnt it off each other at the bimonthly funfests disguised as "interline conferences".
We have just had Ansett one of our 2 major carriers go belly up for much the same and now bleating for Govt handouts.