Info about life in Dubai

[sk61bulldog]

Hi

I'm currently working with an orange European lowco and am a bit curious about life in Dubai and perhaps Emirates in particular. I will be going on holiday to Dubai next week and will be there on the 6th and the 7th and I'm wondering if there's anyone who would be willing to meet over a coffee and share their thoughts about what life is like in the desert. The coffee will be on me of course and if you're interested just drop me a private message.

Best regards

[nolimitholdem]

Unfortunately I will be unable to meet up on the 6-7 as I will be doing my bit to ensure the company remains profitable. Sharing pain and so on. So I will attempt to give some information about Dubai.

Until recently Dubai was a ****hole that was growing very fast. Now it's a ****hole that people are leaving in droves as it financially implodes and its spectacular lack of any sort of fundamental worth is exposed.

Any more questions?

[Big Buddha]

nolimit....... , you leaving then?

[Snake man]

Bulldog, don't even think it........
Paul Simon sums it up:

"I don't know a soul who's not been battered,
I don't have a friend who feels at ease,
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered,
or driven to its knees......."

Good luck,
SM

[Von Richtofen]

Don't be a fool stay away!!!!!

[er340790]

Wow.... would be interested to hear some first-hand detailed accounts behind these comments.

[Mack Tuck]

Did you not read the post by 'nolimitholdem'?
It is a cesspool and you are surrounded by people habitually populating the same.

[grizzled]

I miss the real world. I've lived and worked “overseas” for many years now – throughout Asia and the Middle East – and I've always loved the people and enjoyed the places. But this place, this part of the world formerly known as "The Arabian Desert" is truly a world apart.

Where you now live, you can do the things that humans are meant to do and are energised by. Go for a walk, or a bike ride, or even a leisurely drive. Row a boat. Throw a stick in a lake and share some moments of real enjoyment with a happy dog.

My God! A lake! What a concept. I have vague memories of clear shimmering water, shaded by tall leafy trees. Oh my God! Trees! I'd almost forgotten about them! Do you still have some? We don't. And we can't go for runs or bike rides. Or, in the summertime, even walk without taking a break every fifty steps to duck into an air conditioned ATM cubicle to cool down to a temperature closer to the normal human range before setting out again for another quick march to the next (man-made) oasis. So if your plan for your time off is to simply hop from your apartment into your car, then from your car into the mall, you’ll be fine.

I'm forming a theory that gives a historical explanation (for me, anyway) for the root difference between this culture and my own. In essence, in those parts of the world where nature provides aplenty, cultures succeeded by revering nature and the abundance – the life – it provided. The natural world was (is) an ally, a close friend, the giver of life. In the sands of Arabia nature was an enemy; in order to live society had to defeat it and even rule over it. Which explains why Dubai was and is being created not within its natural surroundings but by destroying them. Scrape the dunes away and build monuments where they stood. Take the sand from those dunes and dump it in the ocean -- billions of tons of it -- to create low, flat, barren, fake islands. Solely to erect more monuments, more concrete receptacles for consumers; more hotels, apartments, villas, and shopping malls. And pull all the trees down (what few there were) and pave everything. Then bestow names such as “The Greens”, “The Hills”, and “The Lakes” on these flat, dry, dirty brown neighbourhoods.

The main roads throughout Dubai are all what are called freeways or motorways in the rest of the world – minimum six lanes, many eight and several 12 or 14. Downtown, around town and through town. No concept (or even concern) about pedestrian movement. Very few overpasses or underpasses, and even fewer sidewalks. So even if the outside temperature were bearable one can't get to where one wants to go by bike or foot without putting oneself in real danger of being dragged for a few miles under a speeding red Ferrari, Hummer or Mercedes; then killed by the next one that zipped over you at 200kph. (Think ostentatious wealth and virtual exemption from traffic laws.) Combine that notion with the ultimate consumerism (some would say "greed" is a more apt word): A culture / society where the philosophy of life is to buy everything, build everything and do everything, bigger, faster, higher, and more expensive than the next guy. A place where a smile – even in response to one given - is as rare as a camel in Coventry.

When driving in the manner of this culture, to let someone merge into your lane, or pass you, is to be defeated in battle. To use a turn signal (other than as a deception tactic before turning the opposite direction) is an admission that you have no faith in Allah to protect you.

In summary, living in Dubai is like living in a 3D movie, playing on fast forward, of what the future will be like when we have destroyed all other natural life forms, and all the mountains and rivers and trees and lakes are gone. And the humans no longer care. And the air conditioning on the movie set is broken . . .

(Having said all the above, I'd be happy to enjoy a beer with someone visiting from the Real World. Feel free to PM.)

Grizz.

[Panther 88]

Could not agree more. Perfect analysis and well said. But you did forget to mention the "beaches". Anybody gone swimming in the Gulf lately off one of the beaches?

And we don't even need to go into the locals attitudes towards their "guests". You are scum under their finger nails. Need proof? Watch how they drive, see the way the legal system works for them. Yep, it's their country, but if you want to be a major player in the world, ways and attitudes just might have to change. Not in our lifetimes......

It has been said many times.....a third world country with a first world facade.

And if you say, just leave. The CV is updated and out there. My bucket just got filled. Haven't tried Kimshi (sp?) yet.

[Old King Coal]

Folks, bitch & moan all you like.... but rest assured that there's very little waiting for you should you presently decide return from whence you came.

E.g. Wanna guess what's being said these days to those Captain's, F/O's & crews from Colombus, Excel, EOS, Frontier, SilverJet, Futura, MAXjet, Oasis, Skybus and Zoom, and many many others... how about?

"BigMac and fries please!"

[Iver]

It won't happen, but imagine the quality of pilots who would flock to EK if they offered a CX local-basing scheme (i.e., London, Paris, Frankfurt, New York, LA, SYD, Toronto, HKG, etc.). EK would draw some of the best pilots in the world and retain them as well... That would cut training expenses and probably lead to safer operations.

But no - it won't happen. They want to control everything at all times. Too bad the EK management is sooooooo shortsighted - CX should at least be lauded for being progressive on the basing front.

[Panther 88]

Old King Cole,

You are exactly right. No arguing there. But LR3 is also spot on. Everyone here is probably damn glad they have employment in their chosen field. But there are a few other major airlines hiring and once the world economy turns positive and others start hiring the perfumed princes will reap what they have sowed. And that just doesn't include pilots. Ask your engineer the next time you both have a few minutes to chat.

All that said above it still does not change the fact this place is full of hypocrisy and discrimination seen on a daily basis. And their legal system backs it up. Just ask the family and friends of the British woman who was run over not once but twice (and killed) by a local, because she and her friends had the intrepidity to make him wait whist they paid their taxi. Anyone want to guess what his sentence was? How can EK mitigate that type of culture. We aren't so naive as to believe that discrimination isn't alive and well in so called first world countries, but there are usually watchdog groups, the press etc. that attempts to keep it in check. How about the new censorship rules for newspapers here? Watchdog groups? How's that union thing going here?

Dubai had the potential to be an oasis and holiday destination for many. But if you want to see fancy lit up buildings, go to Las Vegas. Want to see some incredible culture, go to Paris. Want visit (and swim) some incredible beaches, check out Phuket and others. What I am saying is, they have truly shagged the proverbial golden goose. They have to give people a reason to come here. As the economy falters, the true stripes of this joint show. And to think, I used really like this place.

But I am now going to enjoy the true meaning and culture of Dubai-going to the mall.;)

[Payscale]

Just because you should be happy to have a job in ones chosen field, doesnt mean it should give management free hands to change T&Cs as they like.

What is their share in the PAIN. If they had any they would use that as a marketing tool. So I expect we take the pain they dispense. :D

[Manyarra]

I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have escaped Dubai. I have been back in the "real world" for six weeks and can't wipe the smile off my face! It is fantastic to be home!

[Old King Coal]

Panther 88... might I compliment you on a very succinct & nicely put post! :ok:

[mensaboy]

90% of pilots would leave this place tomorrow if there were other viable jobs available.
Dubai is a horrible place from a normal human being's perspective.

Considering Dubai is a disgusting place and the fact that our T&C's have now dipped below the tolerable, you have to be in a desparate situation to be applying to EK.

[Panther 88]

Mensa, you ok? That's the shortest post I have ever read from you. And it's not even hot out--yet.

[Geebz]

While you may feel fortunate to not have been one of the mis-fortunate pilots of the aforementioned dead airlines, the reality is most of those pilots have found jobs by now and moved on. A good many were retired from the major airline job anyway so the SilverJet/ Maxjet gig was just beer money anyway. But you're still stuck in Dubai.

I know so many pilots who left US major pilot jobs for the lure of the slick EK recruiting campaign. I tried to talk them out of it... nothing doing. Now, even though some US carriers are hurting, many thousands of pilots remain employed and they only work 1/2 the month back home... if that even. No US carrier has taken pay cuts from this downturn... yet.

Sure you make a little more coin upfront by joining EK, but in the long run, a job in the West, BY FAR, outweighs anything the M.E. has to offer... especially once you get over your 'bout of SJS.

Sorry if I've offended any by my comments. I'm mostly basing it on the stuff y'all write about DXB. I myself have lived all over the M.E., including Dubai (I've already done enough M.E. time for this career) but you guys give me the latest perspective since it's been nearly 5yrs since I lived there. Thanks for that.

Great read BTW, Griz. You should be a writer. Maybe you missed your calling.

[Jet II]

Dubai is a city in the middle of the desert - so if you are partial to tall leafy trees and walks by the river then you are going to be disappointed. If you are aircrew and still come here expecting that then it shows somewhat poor navigation skills.

Dubai and EK are not like airlines in Europe or the US - if you expect them to be then perhaps you are the sort of person that really shouldn't travel overseas.

The worst thing about Dubai is the whinging expats :ok:

[Alvord]

Besides hearing the same old negative comments each thread about how bad life can suck in Dubai, does anyone do anything on their free time outdoors (when temps permit :eek: )?
Put a paddle tire on your dirt bike and head to the dunes.
Camp in the mountains.
Scuba Dive.
Fish.
Water Ski/wakeboard
Kite board.
Play golf.
etc.
I like being active on free time and am curious if anyone has some insight into any of these activities or do they do any of them. I live with the big leafy green trees and have rivers and mountains to look at. I spend free time enjoying them by getting out and seeing what they have to offer for recreation. Just trying to make the best of any situation.:ok:

[Miles Gustaph]

Alvord,
The golfs great.... if you have a spare 1000dhs for a round; the fishing is great if you have the money and time to sail offshore, since the palms not much lives inshore; water sports, no problem, subject too....money and the right day of the week, area of beach, permission from..... etc

Dubai=Money and lots of it... you can do anything there but it costs!

[coconut99]

Grizz, an excellent piece if writing if i must say so :ok:

My experience of living in the concrete desert is mixed. Having been living here for just shy of 4 years, some days I wake up and wonder if I really made the right choice to come here. On the other hand, often I wake up and think how lucky I am to be in this often strange yet wonderful city that is Dubai.

I guess it depends on what your expectations are when and before you arrive. I am originally from a small Island floating somewhere in the Pacific which is very third world compared to here. For me, it's another world which I have come to usually enjoy. Sure Dubai has its moments where you want to pack your bags and leave, but if you decide to live in the positive side of life your experience can be truly quite remarkable.

I suggest you make the most of your visit here and talk to other expats, not just pilots, before you decide to come and play in this immaculate sand pit some of us now call home.

Good luck!

[tbaylx]

Alvord,

The key to keeping happy here is to do exactly what you suggest...stuff on your days off. I do most of the things on that list, some more expensive than others, some cheap compared to NA typical costs. Keeps it interesting. Lots to do around here besides malls if you go looking for it.

Some of the largest unexplored caves in the world just across the border and if you are into climbing at all its very good here as well. Diving in musandam (bout 2.5 hours from dubai) is very good as well. Don't expect red sea visibilites but the corals and wildlife are world class.

[jinglied]

Hey TBAYLX...

Where are the caves? And where to go climbing?

Tanx


Jinglie'd

[schismatic]

The main reason most of us are here is for the money. It cannot be denied that EK pay fairly well though they demand much labour for their shilling.
As a company they are generally decent.

However, the pay is only relevant in context of what it costs to live. The rest you ship home to pay for one thing or another. You could spend it on local investments but recent events have proved that to be a fool's erand.

So given these basic objectives one must look at the cost of living and the ability to get funds out.

Cost of living: For the past few years this was completely out of hand. However while the rest of the world has in fact cut this back, Dubai has not worked out the necessity to do this. As their profits fall (largely driven by the amount of people leaving or cutting expenditure), they find other ways of extracting money. From actually raising borrowing rates (go figure) to daily schemes to indirectly tax individuals (with more to come) you face an ongoing barrage of overcharging. Salaries are unlikely to rise this year or next. There is little recourse to dispute what you may have be forced to pay, so you pay it or face penalty.

Until Dubai substantially cuts the cost of living the appeal to move here to work will decline as will the economy.

Getting funds out: So far no problem. In fact they are offering up to 6% to keep your money here pegged to the USD. However that in itself tells a story of how anxious they are that there is no massive flight of capital.

But there is! With the Dirham strong many ship their funds out. People are liquidating assets here on a massive scale as they call it a day or lose their jobs.

Banks have a strange way of changing rules overnight with a new "policy". They could make it very difficult to move cash. Recent rumours of currency purchase limits and more paperwork to do it (under the guise of certifying origin) suggest that they may take measures to curb the outflow.

Fine if you want to spend your salary here. But as you cannot remain here forever that is generally not the objective.

So to anyone who plans to come I say; consider the economic status not simply the maths on salary and other enticements. You will be stepping into a failing economy, and no safety nets. So think carefully before making the move

[tbaylx]

Jinglied.

Caves across the border in Oman in various locations. Lots available on the net if you are interested. Climbing is also good in oman, or closer to home around musandam and RAK.

[Count von Altibar]

If you like going out for a few drinks forget it. I've just spent 84 Dhs on two pints of Belgian beer in blue bar! That's an exponential increase from my last visit a year ago.

[Dropp the Pilot]

That's easy. Last time he was here he only drank 1.4142135 pints.

QED

[Count von Altibar]

You underestimate my drinking ability!

[White Knight]

Jinglied - there're also the sinkholes of a grand scale down near Salalah (bit of a drive:}:}) but they did feature in NG a few tears back....

[Alvord]

tbaylx,
Thanks for the info on the diving, caves and climbing. I will check them.
Alvord

[Tower Ranger]

Quite contrary to the Count I think drinking here is one of the real plus points. Of course it is not cheap but by and large you are sipping your juice in 5 star surroundings with the option to sit outside by the sea or at a roof top bar.
If you want value for money lots of Hotels do all you can eat and drink buffets starting from about 30 quid and if you like your drink in less celubrious surroundings there are plenty of Aussie,British and Irish bars like any other city in the world.
For sure there is a lot of red tape to cut through sometimes but if you are patient and friendly things can happen much more smoothly than you`d expect. Dubai is what you make of it and if you come here expecting it to be just like home you haven`t done your homework. I realise that with the changing T`s and C`s currently happening it is a stressful time for many but my opinion is that a lot of the people who are not happy in Dubai are not going to be any happier no matter where they are.

[jinglied]

Tbaylx, and White Knight:

Thanx for the info!!

Off Spelunking....

Jingkie'd