Can a greeting create confusion?

[cdnjetblast]

Hi there,

Canada has two official languages: English and French. Air traffic control services are provided in both languages in the Montreal FIR which basically covers the province of Quebec and the national capital (Ottawa) region.

For 15 years, I have greeted pilots with "bonjour" or "bonsoir" even if the pilots were making initial contact in English.

I have just been told to stop:= that practice because it could create confusion.

:confused: Am I a weirdo :8or are controllers in other countries also greeting pilots in their own language other than English. I'm pretty sure I did not invent the wheel...

:confused: I also wonder what pilots think about that.

I'd love to hear from controllers and pilots on this.

Until then, bonsoir! :)

[Lon More]

I still have my badge from CATCA back in the 1970s. "English is the language of international aviatiom.":*

[Jerricho]

The obvious ensuing discussion about "Aviation Languages" aside.......

I've heard an American carrier get confused with a frequency transfer. "Contact center on 118 decimal 0, see you" was read back as "Uhhh, Eighteen, zero three, uh eighteen three two, uhhh, say again the frequency.". Not being bi-lingual (yet), I don't know, does "bonsoir" or "bonjour" sound like a command instruction of number in French?

[Skybear]

Even english greetings are confusing from time to time. Saying bye ore good bye when sending aircraft to Frankfurt Arrival on 120,8 sometimes causes 120,85 or 120,825 as a readback.

[doc_exe]

as atc i always greet my pilots.

some of them don't respond:sad: but the majority do.:ok:

i think this is not a big problem....

i see a problem when pilots or atc .. use "point" but they must use "decimal"
use " Eighteen" but they must use "one eight"

when they say just switching without repeating the freq .. and after 2 minutes they come back and say "please confirm the freq for XXXxxx"

[Clerval]

Crossing the boundary of standard phraseology into Courtesy in RT is... tolerated pretty much everywhere. How far can you go it is (as I understand in your case) sometimes defined by your sup/competence officer.

Lets say that courtesy in english it's the accepted "norm".
From here on...

In another bi-lingual country they mark the paperstrips of the french speaking pilots so they can use french with them and english to others. Greetings follow the same rule, french with the french speaking and english with the rest of the world. But even this is not that obvious in this globalised world when the pilot of a german company can have a noticeable french accent.

One of my colleagues was driving me nuts by greeting everybody in THEIR native language. When having a more "exotic" company I would hold my breath to see whether he "knows" the greeting in that particular language. No harm done, even amusing at times. For the record, he was "suggested"
to stick to english, so it did not happen only to you in this world.

On the other hand It is corny when pilots greet me using the language of another country by ignorance (I don't mean english here). It is one reason I agree with my colleague being told to stick to english.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

In 35 odd years of ATCing I never ever recall a pilot mistaking my "Gooday, sir" for a frequency or anything else!

[NaFenn]

my understanding of the rules are that if one station talks in english, the other has to respond in english (no matter where they are) - but dont quote me on that

[ImnotanERIC]

"gooday SIR?" they are just bus drivers you know. buses that fly.
Sometimes i get called sir and it makes me chuckle. If they saw me they wouldn't.

[radorabatin]

We also use greetings,during the day I have max 1-2 acft not saying anything.We use at least english,but usually international greets.Older colleagues have huge database of foreign greetings :-).We have lot of fun usually when it is morning(after sun rise) and crews are saying goodevening :-).This happens also to me...as we don't have windows in control room :-).

Rado

[criss]

I always greet and thank in my local language, never had a problem with that. Quite often crews will do the same.

[lilibulle75]

I work in Paris ACC and we use "bonjour" all the time! Many pilots spontaneously use "bonjour" too!

I think the greetings should stay in the ATC's country language!

[notlgw53]

This one is close to my heart and has been the subject of discussion with my LCE as well as an ongoing source of amusement to my colleagues. I recognise that we should communicate in English and daily admire the proficiency of pilots for whom English might be a second or even a third language.
I view pilots as welcome guests in my country and am a frequent visitor to many of their countries. In a troubled world I hope I do a tiny bit to improve or maintain relationships wherever I go. In my job I do not feel that salutations and valedictions - when time permits - are strictly part of the ATC communication and do feel that it is nice to perform them in a pilot's native language. I only do this when I am not busy. I can do this in at least ten languages and regard it as an extension of the courtesy I would show when abroad of troubling to learn a couple of words of someones language.
I am aware of some pitfalls, in particular when saying goodbye to a German speaker I have to enunciate very clearly or use "auf wiederhoeren" as "tschuess" can be mistaken for "two" at the end of a frequency.
So, non-conformance notwithstanding, is there not a matter of judgement here?
As I recall - although I am not a legal expert - French, Spanish and Russian are official ICAO languages so I can not see the problem with the appropriate use of them outside the UK where the situational awareness of international visitors is not at risk.
In summary and except as caveatted above, I do not believe greetings and goodbyes are routinely mistaken for other elements of a transmission and for pilots of countries where courtesy is a part of the culture rather than a burden I hope it might even make them smile.

[forget]

I work in Paris ACC and .....

Then you may remember the first of the day BA flights with 'Good moaning ......' (Allo Allo :))

[BIRD2008]

If I were to use my language the greeting would be... Góðan dag!
And saying good bye would be something like... Vertu saell or bless!

I usually stick to English for most of them, Icelandic for the locals and German for Germans! Has worked fine so far, no trouble at all!

[Northbeach]

Je susis un pilote commercial, “bonjour” “bonsoir” c’est nepas un problem pour moi.

[Coast]

"In 35 odd years of ATCing I never ever recall a pilot mistaking my "Gooday, sir" for a frequency or anything else!"

the female pilots didn't object to being called sir?

what gets to me is when a pilot checks in, after a handoff from montreal centre, and "bonsoirs" or "bonjours" me.

[Jagohu]

I agree with most of you guys - greetings should stay - they just show that we actually acknowledge that there's another human being at the other end of the mic...
Personally I use English with most of the pilots and if I'm not busy then I greet them on the languages that I speak (and of course they too:)). If I don't speak the given language, I rather use English.

It's just that I don't wanna get that embarassed as a few colleauges who said "hi" in for example Japanese and then stay very silent when the pilot encouraged by this asked something in his own language :)

[Hotel Tango]

as "tschuess" can be mistaken for "two" at the end of a frequency.

You can get around that by stretching it and almost singing it (pitch change) as the Germans themselves do. A bit like byeee instead of a straight sharp bye.

[ImnotanERIC]

dis post has been removed by der mods

[privatesandwiches]

the mods who drove scooters in the 50s/60s..... your mum told me she used to be a mod eric??

[anotherthing]

tut tut, one shouldn't speak with ones mouth full...

[Gargleblaster]

On Dec 31st 2005, I spent some VFR time inside of EKCH's control zone.

Medium traffic of in- and outbound jets. Everybody was in a really festive mood. The controllers were having fun getting every pilot to teach them to say "happy new year" in their own language.

[Gargleblaster]

Came to think of this RT story (recited from memory as I read it years ago and can't find the original text):

A foreign student, learning to fly in the US, English not too good, gets told by instructor that adding a greeting is a good thing on first contact, e.g. good morning, etc.

Next flight is a night one, so student calls "XXX TWR, YYY Good night !".

Silence for some seconds, whereafter TWR Replies "YYY, Good night to you and sweet dreams !".

[_L_]

Hello everyone,
While doing a random search i came across this thread, and its really interesting. I always used to stick to standard phraseology and I had a feeling that the ATC's would get annoyed if I would greet them. But, I want to know your personal opinion(s), if whether you do actually like being greeted or not?


Thanks:)

[Lon More]

It can sometimes go TU. At Maastricht there are 38 different nationalities represented. A German colleague was very proud od=f his linguistic aility until one day Dosvidanya came out as Grossbritanien.
I see no real problem, until things go wrong and there is the expectation that things can be conducted in a "non-standard" language.