My new life

[marliz]

Hi all Dears,

i am an italian girl 18yo, i think to start my Flying School at the end of the High Grade here in Italy,
think to depart in august for SA, my parents are searching a good school for me, and my father is everyday in contact with a lot of FI to choose the best safe and secure school for me, hope that some of you can give me a lot of info about my new adventure, and hope also to find a lot of friends in my new house
where i think to stay for more than a year, i have look at many city, Jo'burg, Durban Pretoria etc.. but not yet made a selection, for now ciao for all and hope you want speak and write with me also if i am a very very newbie!

kisses

Fedy

[austra1998]

ciao,

why did u choose SA for your training?? i did my training 10 years ago so i;m not up to date...but i think USA has still the cheapest and better airspace in the world...am i wrong?

anyway...all the best with your training and happy landings!

study hard,

alessandro di milano!!:-)

[marliz]

my father tell me that he like more SA, for the quality of the training and for the pleasure of the place, also we have look at the rate for the total price cost and SA is a little more cheap so we headed in that direction.
Otherwise my parents don't like much the style of life in USA,

SA wait me i'll come like a newbie bird..........

thank for your reponse

kisses

Fedy

[marliz]

For all........

if someone has info or experience about a school that another, please give me all the info, i want start with right foot...........

SA expert pilots for some suggest are welcome!

kisses

Fedy

[perceval]

Don't know a lot directly but I had a few colleagues that did their schooling with 43 airschool in Port Elisabeth (I believe) and had a good time there .Good campus , multinational students , beach ...generally more relaxed than the bigger cities . They were happy with the instruction and judging what I could by flying/talking with them later , I have to say they must have had decent training . I believe they can also help with JAA certification ( European licences ), particularly the theory part , although you might have to do some practical exams in European airspace . That's important if you want to come back in Europe to work .If you want to stay in RSA , bear in mind that you won't have priority as you're not a citizen ( work permits...) . An SA licence can be converted in other ICAO countries though (Botswana , Zambia , Australia ...) .
Good luck and enjoy SA and surroundings .(even for an Italian , the wine is pretty good as well ).

[marliz]

thank you perceval i appreciate a lot your info,
i look at the school in their web site,


for the wine...........brrrrrrrr gasp, i'm too young to drink wine and don't want my future training cessna172 or piper160 go crazy with my wine/drive :-)

kisses

Fedy

[Carrier]

A few years ago a South African friend whom I met several countries to the north asked for my advice for getting his son started in flying. After a bit of thought I put a few ideas together in an email. Here it is below with a few updates. I hope you will find it useful. I have known pilots from both 43 Air School and Progress Flight Academy and both received good training. Good luck!


You mentioned that your son is interested in learning to fly for a career. I have been giving this a bit of thought. I am not familiar with the flight schools in SA but have heard good comments about 43 Air School in Port Alfred and Progress Flight Academy in Port Elizabeth. I do not know your son’s name. Perhaps it is Biggles? Anyway, that famous name will do for now. He and you can check it out on the Internet or at the local public library in SA! Here are some things that Biggles should be considering right from the start:

He should aim from the start to obtain commercial (CPL) and then air transport (ATPL) pilot licences from two countries. I presume he will want an SA licence for one. The other should be from one of the major aviation countries: the USA and Canada or the EU. Go for the biggest and get an FAA licence. Check the SA flight schools to see if they are recognised for both licences as this would make things easier. If not, he will eventually have to go overseas to do the FAA written (computer) examinations and at least one flight test. In the meantime, obtain the red books from Gleim’s for studying for the FAA exams and flight tests. (Note that the USA and Canada now recognise each other’s pilot licences and it is easy to get a full conversion to enable a pilot to have both.)
Regardless, all flight training and exercises must meet the requirements for both licences. This applies particularly to cross-country, night and instrument flights. If there are differences then the flight must meet the more exacting requirements. He must ensure this, the flight school will not do it for him.
Aim to get the CPL with multi-engine and instrument ratings. Add-ons such as a tail wheel endorsement or float rating can be done as needed. Try to do it full-time, as fast as possible, and get into that first job.
It is always difficult to accumulate night cross-country time, particularly as pilot-in-command. He should aim to get night flying time at every opportunity.
He should do his initial and repeat aviation medicals with a Civil Aviation Medical Examiner who is able to do both SA CAA and FAA medicals. I expect there will be several in SA who are qualified for this. Check the FAA’s website for medical examiners in SA. He will need a first class medical for both countries.
From day one he should regard the world as his employment market. There is a looming international pilot shortage. Be prepared to go wherever the job is within reason – exclude Iraq, Iran and similar risky spots. Use a computer to keep a record of prospective employers, job contacts, etc. Consider buying a current CD-ROM version of JP Airline-fleets International. Many smaller air operators do not show on this but are mentioned on forums such as PPRuNe, Africa Aviation and CRANe. Make a note of their details and of the comments.
The airlines are not the only possible employers. The first job probably will be with a small air operator but later on there are still good career options outside of the airlines. There are many professional pilot jobs outside of the airlines that provide nice pay and working conditions. In Canada according to the Big Blue Book 85% of professional pilot jobs are blue collar, whereas only 15% are white collar – airline and corporate. It would be very nice for someone who likes diving, sailing and a laid-back lifestyle to be a Twin Otter captain on floats, day VFR only, in the Maldives or flying a BE1900 or Twin Otter in the Caribbean.
Although he will probably have to start his first job on a single-engine plane he should try and ensure it is with an employer who has twins that he can move up to. It is vital for the future to build multi-engine time. Take a piston twin over a turbo-prop single such as a Caravan.
Planes are noisy and cause long term hearing damage. Get the best ANC (active noise cancelling) headset he can afford. The best is the Telex Stratus 50D. Next best would be the Bose X or Lightspeed Zulu. I have a Telex Stratus 50D with a Lightspeed 20XL that I bought about ten years ago and now keep as a backup. Treat it carefully, never lend it, and guard against thieves.
Aviation is a “who you know” business. From day one he should be making contacts and recording them on a laptop computer using a database or personal contacts application. He should keep in touch with people and use the computer to refresh his memory. These contacts will help him to advance in his career. It’s a tough career to move up in for the first few years.
Check if there are any bursaries, scholarships or cadetships that he might qualify for. It is always helpful to have someone else pay for part or all of the cost.
Passports (more than one) must be kept current. If he qualifies now for only an SA passport then he should consider in the long term finding a job in another country (USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, UK) where he can become a citizen. This might become easier as the pilot shortage develops. He would not have to stay there after becoming a citizen but would have the passport and the right to return there in future if necessary. Similarly, have more than one driver’s licence.
Immunisations for the world must be obtained and kept current ready for an immediate move anywhere. Polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, yellow fever, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, typhoid, meningococcal meningitis, Japanese encephalitis, rabies, BCG vaccine for TB. Carry Artesunate malaria treatment in flight bag.
Open bank accounts in at least two separate offshore jurisdictions. It is always easier to do this in person because of anti-money laundering procedures. Combine this with a trip for a flight test or a vacation.
He should monitor the forums on www.pprune.com AVCANADA :::WELCOME::: (http://www.avcanada.ca) • CRANe for the Caribbean :: Welcome, everyone!! • (http://www.caribbeanavenue.com/aviation/index.php) and subscribe to the free twice-weekly email newsletter from AVweb » The World's Premier Independent Aviation News Resource (http://www.avweb.com). He should also try and monitor aviation magazines such as World Airnews, Professional Pilot, and Business & Commercial Aviation. To save costs try and read these at the flight school or public library.
Always keep flying and keep building PIC time. Apart from the flight school, look for cheap flying elsewhere. I obtained hundreds of hours by towing gliders for Canada’s largest soaring association. This was done on a PPL for the cost of my annual membership. The hours counted towards obtaining the CPL. Then I moved to dropping skydivers, which requires a CPL and for which I was paid.
It is a mobile lifestyle so consider this when buying clothes, shoes, etc. Appliances, including rechargeable ones, should be dual or multi-voltage to work in different countries and should have warranties that will be honoured worldwide. Comfortable but smart footwear is needed as there can be plenty of time standing in terminal buildings or walking from one part of an airfield to another. Shoes must give good grip for standing on refuelling ladders and on top of wings for refuelling and checking oil levels. I have Etonic Sojourn and Journey shoes, both in black with velcro fastening. Hiker style shoes are useful for flights requiring a stay at safari lodges. I have a black CWU-45/P flight jacket from Alpha Industries Inc that is very useful here in the cooler season. He might want to look at some of the travel clothing available from a company such as Rohan Designs. It’s worth asking them to mail a catalogue anyway. Rohan - Travel Clothing, Outdoor Adventure Clothes, Accessories (http://www.rohan.co.uk) You might be interested in some of their gear. I understand there is some good clothing available from Capestorm Outdoor Apparel in SA. He could also obtain a catalogue from L. L. Bean.
The best pilot shirts come from Landerwood Corporation of Charlotte, NC. Contact Joe Claar at [email protected] Please quote code 2636 – I would get a small credit for a referral. This is something he in turn could benefit from in future.
Get first rate sunglasses suitable for flying. Check the sunglasses threads on PPRuNe and especially obtain the article on how to select sunglasses from the website of Hidalgos, Inc of Wimberley, Texas. I would suggest a Top-gradient Density Kontraster type of lens and it would help if they also protect from side glare.
Has he got a computer? I suggest a laptop such as an iBook. Get X-Plane flight simulator for it and a CH Products control yoke or good joystick. If a PC laptop is preferred then use either X-Plane or MS Flight Simulator. The flight sim will be handy later on for practising instrument scan and procedures. It will save him money when the IFR training starts.
Some other toys that Father Christmas should consider are a Mini-Maglite AA with belt pouch, a good Swiss army knife or Leatherman tool - I have a Wenger Ranger with belt pouch for just the knife, down the road a handheld GPS with TAWS such as the new Lowrance 600C but ensure it is the International database version, a Relief Band Explorer RB-EL if there is any tendency towards nausea, a Lifeventure zipped black mobile phone case with belt loop (8436) from Lifemarque, and a good pocket size digital camera. A flight bag - think carefully about the size, I have one from Sporty’s that is too big so I normally use a soft sided briefcase with shoulder strap that I obtained from L. L. Bean. A set of International Power & Phone Adaptors, ours is from Targus Canada Ltd. Try and obtain catalogues from Sporty’s Pilot Shop, Marv Golden Pilot Supplies and Harry Mendelssohn Pilot Supplies.
Never fly on an empty stomach. Always eat something, even if it is just a slice of toast.
Get an email address that works anywhere in the world. I use Yahoo email with a backup address on Gmail. Do not use PPRuNe email as it can be received everywhere but is blocked for sending in many countries and is subject to regular account suspensions.

One other option to look into is that of doing the training in the USA or Canada. Check into what it would cost at a flight school in Florida or Canada. The SA licence could then be done as an add-on.

I hope the above helps. Some of it is in the future but it should be considered now and worked towards.

[marliz]

Dear Carrier,

a wonderful wonderful wonderful post this one, i think to use it now and in the future like a little bible, thank you for this great gift,

hope in the future when my dream to fly come true to give you a similar gift........

many kisses

Fedy

[flux]

If you need a place to stay Maliz............ ha ha :O Good luck

[Siguarda al fine]

Marliz. Is your father crazy or what? RSA is a dangerous place, I have a granddaughter your age and I would not let her be in RSA alone EVER. She was born there but she is with her family to protect and guide her. My angel do not take this advice lightly, go else where, not to RSA.

[alpha-b]

SA is one of the place on earth where u get one of the best flight training in the world so go ahead but i'd recommend 3 schools:43 airschool in port-alfred,Progress Flight Academy down in port-elizabeth or FTS(flight training college) these schools to my opinion offers the most quality type of training.I hope this help?

[Champagne Lover]

Marliz, what a pity that you have to burn first to learn. Heed what Siguarda al fine said. Please?

[sky waiter]

RSA is only as dangerous as you make it to be, I as a south african would not go to Burundi as it is too dangerous, same goes for Chad DRC etc etc

I see a number of guys said 43, they are a good school however very expensive, come and see port elizabeth, a huge different to Johannesburg. there are 3 fine schools withtin 20mins of each other. Algoa, Progress and APTRAC.

I instruct part time at one, PM me if you want further details, but if you are staying for a year and want good quality training in a relaxed atmosphere i can definately recommend the friendly city.

Its great here on the coast and the weather will really teach you how to fly properly as we have all types!!!!

[marliz]

i have look at Wonderboom, i don't know nothing about SA flight schools
but looking with my father on the web we find some well advertise school

Loutzavia
Pretoria Flying school
Eagle Aviation


Lanseria:

Aeronav
Foster Aero

Brakpan;
Airborne Aviation

Kitty Hawk:
Superb Flying school

Bloemfonteine:
Westline Aviation

Durban:
Aviation Training

Mfikeng:

AUAA

and so on, the choose is very difficult, also because not all the schools give accomodations, and stay lone in some self catering house is not a great idea!!


Otherwise my father is in contact and i hope he find the right school and the right place for me like every father!


But August is yet 5 months and we have time..........

stay tuned

kisses

Fedy

[Hobgoblin]

Well seeing as you seem set on SA rather than the US I thought I'd put in my two cents for what it's worth.

I agree with most of the posters here - get a school somewhere on the coast, make sure the accommodations are close to the airport, if possible stay at a residential school unless you're willing to rent an apartment on your own, and willing to buy a car. Forget about using public transport, it's practically non-existent and in any case dangerous to a young girl on her own. Also you would have to walk miles between where you live to where you can get on, and likewise between where you get off and where you would want to be.

I learnt to fly in George at a residential school and enjoyed it immensely. Make sure whichever school you go to that you know what you're getting into. You wouldn't want to get there and discover that you live 20 km from the airport with no means of getting there.

One more thing I would suggest is getting yourself a hand-held radio. It will help you to get used to the speed of the radio work, and the English (a special brand of English as you'll hear:)), and will make your flying that much more fun.

PM me if you would like to know more.

Have fun down there.

[marliz]

eeeeeerrrrrrrrrr, one little thing......obvious i know!! i am not so stupid!

what do you think i want work in Europe??

kisses

Fedy

[frogone]

Because when the **** hits the fan in SA, you'll wanna get the hell outta dodge!!

IR

[perceval]

oh please ...prophets of doom be gone . Nothing wrong with wanting to live and work somewhere else . And How do you want to work in Europe anyway ...The **** here IS hitting the fan . At least the weather is nicer down south .

[frogone]

Nothing wrong with wanting to live somewhere else I couldn't agree more, variety is the spice of life, however quality of life does come into play (for me).

I was in Zimbabwe 10 years ago and how things have changed. I have some SA colleagues who think it's heading the same way too. Sadly it is doom and gloom, but reality perception has to come into play "See things as they are, not as you would like them to be".

IR

[Siguarda al fine]

Burundi dangerous? Have you ever been here? We sleep with the windows open and the doors unlocked and allways have done, I dont believe you can do that in the murder culture you bask in.
My Italian angel, you wont be able to work in RSA without a work permit and they are difficult to secure.

[erik07]

Siguarda's last post hit the nail on the head for me. Yes, training in South Africa is relatively 'cheap' compared to Europe (as is the US where I did mine), and the training is certainly of high quality. I wouldn't even be so concerned about security issues because, thankfully, once you get out of the bigger cities the criminal atmosphere lightens up quite a bit. Though these factors are nevertheless important to remember, I believe the IMMIGRATION issue may be far more difficult to conquer. Unless you have South African citizenship, staying in South Africa on a permanent basis will be a challenging obstacle to overcome. From what I have heard, it has become VERY difficult to obtain a work permit in SA as a foreign pilot, meaning you might have to leave after your training. Most 'western' countries are not much better in terms of immigration laws....I'm currently in Australia finishing my tertiary education here, and have no chance of staying here on a permanent basis as a pilot after this year, since pilots are not in 'demand' here and they don't want foreigners taking local jobs. America is very similar, and Europe (where you could stay) will not directly accept your SA license without a lenghty conversion process.

Yes, I know there are other places where immigration might be a little easier, especially within the African region. But I'm not quite sure I'd like to spend my entire flying career as a bush-pilot. I could imagine that after a few years of flying 206's or caravans, there would be an interest to move on to bigger and better things.

I am not trying to discourage you in your dreams and aspirations, and I'm sure you will always reach what you set your mind to. Just make sure you take into account all of the relevant factors, and immigration is a very important one to consider!

All the best!

Erik

[petesevenseven]

For what it's worth I've heard a number of good reports about 43 airschool I also know quite a few of their former instructors who have since moved on to bigger and better things. I understand they also have a jaa programme up and running which you might want to consider if your intention long term is to fly in Europe.
It all depends on what your plan is after flying school. If you want to stay in a afterwards and build your flying experience then a south African licence is an excellent start because although it's a mission getting an sa work permit there is nothing from stopping you from contract flying and the top contract companies flying in Africa are sa companies that require you to have an Sa licence or validation. And If you have already done the licence then you are marketable for some excellent contract flying all over the place. Don't get me wrong some of the places and people you meet along the way are not always the nicest but the experience will stand you in good steps for your future.

Btw 43 airschool isn't the cheapest but you get what you pay for.

Best of luck!!

Pete! s

[marliz]

Dears,

just to clear some things:

- my father look at SA schools, some are more cheap than other, but the difference from each one is not in the quality service or quality training, look at 43 they rent aircraft at a more high price than other like Loutzaia in Wonderboom, can one of you tell me where is the quality difference? is the rent hour in Loutzavia less quality that hour at 43?

i think the difference is made by the FI, Superb Flying school has a rate houre at about 600/700 hour, this not mean that the school is undervalued, also because
i have speak with the CFI (that is C.B.), and is a very lovel and experienced Fi with a lot of thousand hours.

So don't tell me that i have what i pay, i can pay a P180
at 700 rand/h or i can pay the same P180 at 1200
rand/h, where is the quality difference?

kisses

Fedy

[organ donor]

Mariliz,

Good luck with your endeavors. I don't know which school is better than others, but try find one with experienced instructors who will have more to offer. 43 has a reputation for being a good school, but they are very big, and you might end up being just a number, but perhaps more airline orientated? Maybe try one of the smaller schools for a more personal service? I would suggest to stick to the coast, places like PE, East London, George, and of course Capetown for the lifestyle, rather than Joburg, and Pretoria, which can be a bit intimidating for some.

With regards to safety and work permits that some posters have warned about - don't listen to the doom and gloom! South Africa is safe, and it is easy to get a work permit, and or permanent residency here (I did it with no problems at all).

Good luck

[marliz]

Dear Organ Donor,

thank you for the post, i like when someone post something with real info and not only a lot of words
that are worthless!

When i start to posting here i was so happy that someone more expert can give me a lot of info,
now this happyness is gone a lot of posts without sense
take is place.

I was happy that "pilots" with experience give me that
little help that a newbie need but..................

kisses

Fedy

Fedy

[vanman208b]

my advice would be Lanseria Flight Centre<also very good package deal is 43 Air school in Port Alfred <(well structure all in one PPL to CPL training

try these links:

Pilot Training Lanseria Flight School and Air Charter South Africa (http://www.flylfc.com) (for lanseria flight centre)
Pilot Training South Africa | Port Alfred Flying School (http://www.43airschool.com/default.asp) (for 43)

I trained at lanseria flight centre 5 years ago and it has really progressed into a fantastic institution.

if u need any more info let me know

good luck

[nibbio86]

Marliz,
you have to listen also the advices from people who tell you that things are not that easy at all. If you want to succeed you have to be realistic and know the difficulties which you may come across with. Immigration is always an issue for expat pilots, do not underestimate it. And consider the current climate of economic crisis. Don't listen only to the people who tell you -Oh, yeah, everything is easy, go for it!-. Try to be as realistic as possible and be ready to divert when necessary.
That being said, buona fortuna from an italian bush pilot.

[rick1128]

Marliz,

Each situation is different. However, keep in mind that even the SA government is concerned about the crime issues in the country, especially in consideration of the 2010 games. NO training is good if you have to worry about your personal safety and security all the time. I have flown in SA from time to time and am currently flying in Nigeria. I have operated in such fun places as Angola during the civil war, Sudan and Afghanistan as a civilian pilot. I still watch my back and where I go in SA. The so called Doom and Gloomer's are trying to bring some not so pretty fact to your attention. You are especially at risk if you have no support structure in place. Not all schools will be willing or able to do that. Remember they are a profit making (hopefully) business that provide a service.

Definitely look for a school where you can get at least 2 certifications. Since you are European, I would look carefully at getting a JAA certification.

Also do not only look at price. Look at what support they provide to the students, like yourself. Get names and contact information for current and former students. Talk to them and be sure to get not only the good, but also the bad and ugly. Know the full picture before you go.

And I would suggest that you and your father look at other places in the world besides SA. Keep your eyes and options open.

Good luck.

[erik07]

Well spoken Rick. None of us here are trying to scare young aspiring pilots off trying their luck with training/working in Africa. I know Africa is not as bad as what the western media makes it out to be...I've spent a large portion of my life in Africa too, and I wouldn't want to trade it for anything. In fact, I am looking into heading over next year for more experience.

BUT, like Rick mentioned, you have to look at ALL factors. Not just the good ones. What you make of the advice that people give you on this forum is completely up to you. You asked for advice, and that's what you'll get -- positive and negative experiences and things to think about. No one here receives any gain of lying to you about things....people are just sharing experiences. No one said it's impossible to get a visa, no one said you'll get shot the second you set foot on the continent. But immigration and security issues are an undeniable factor you must consider if you're serious about coming to South Africa for your training and it would be foolish and naive to just dismiss it all as bogus. Whether you'll encounter any of these problems remains to be seen...but you have to make sure you're aware of them before you embark on this adventure!

Good luck!

Erik

[austra1998]

sarai mica l'elefante vero?:-)

for the young pilot to be...good luck!!!
ciao
alex

[OLVpilot]

Marliz,

Glad to hear you are pursuing an aviation career. I understand you're not so keen on training in the US, but if price is an issue, our flight school here pretty much takes the cake in affordability and price. Not to mention, the best instructors (including myself!) and people I've ever experienced in my career.

PM if you're interested in details, otherwise have a great time and fly safe.

[Propellerpilot]

Geez OLVpilot that is quite a speech... Age:23 and claiming to be a best instructor. Why would you and your collegues be so much better and how can you compare yourself to some of our SA instructors??? That is a particular American attitude that many folks outside your borders dispise - being better than the rest of the world. If the lady chooses not to train in the US for mentioned reasons, then your posting here just shows you do not have a clue when a touch of modesty would be slightly more applicable.

To get back to the subject: Loutzavia seems to be a good outfit also with fair prices. I have not dealt with them personally, but a few former collegues have done training there and gave positive feedback.

43AS has a good product but is way too expensive - we call it a rippoff... I have done line training with one of their students and unfortunatly we did not give him a contract because he was doing things he was taught without thinking or knowing why he was doing it and he was extreamly insecure in the cockpit as well. That is just an individual example, that 43 also produces lemons sometimes. Rather go to 43Advanced after training elswhere if you want to do a special type rating course and for CRM,DG and SEPT courses.

From a location Cape Town Flying Club can be pretty nice - although not all instructors can be recommended, best is to go there and socialise and find out who the best ones are. Other downside is that the aircraft there are getting old. You are operating out of an international airport, which is good for radiowork, however another drawback is the time waiting for clearance.

Why not try Namibia - Westair has a very high standard, comes at a price - but get a quote. Windhoek Flight Training Center is also an option. The best thing is, that it is quite a safe place there. You will have the option of getting a Namibian and a South African licence in the same go and might be helpful getting contacts for the first C210 job if you are keen on bushflying.

You have not specified, what kind of flying you want to do - if it is airline the South African market is very limited for non citizens. In the case of direct airline, the costly 43AS might be the best option generally as it is quite a well known establishment.

There is a lot more to choose from and all have their pros and cons - not easy to decide... any flightschool institution with a reputation will do - the more important thing is finding an instructor who contributes positivly to your personal learning curve in order to get most out of the time making it enjoyable and that is the biggest issue. For most students this is trial and error, mostly just taking anyone allocated to them by the CFI (Chief Flying Instructor).

[nibbio86]

No, mi spiace, non penso di conoscerti ma probabilmente sono tuo omonimo -a meno che l'Alex non stia per Alessio.
Alessandro

[rick1128]

Marliz,

While it is possible to get work with a South African certificate only, as a non-citizen, it will most likely be with a South African company that one or more international contracts. I have run into many pilots flying South African registered aircraft that were not South African. Places like Angola, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Nigeria and so on. They were flying on contracts for oil companies, NGO's, UN, etc. They were not able to work within South Africa. So I would strongly suggest that you look at doing a course where you would be able to get a JAA certificate also. This would open many other possible opportunities.

Also with the current economic situation in Europe, look at schools within Europe. Spain comes to mind. Some schools might consider negotiation on price.

[Impala]

Hi

I have experienced a lot of the schools training pilots around South Africa. Eventually you will have to decide for yourself. At Wonderboom in Gauteng, I would strongly reccomend Loutzavia as the top school for quality training. At Lanseria I would rate Lanseria Flight Centre the highest. I would steer clear of Rand due to the area and proximity of JNB Intl Airport. At Grand Central there are also a few good schools with CFA Babcock topping the list closely followed by Superior pilot Services.

In the Freestate I would most definately look at Westair in Bloemfontein.

Depending on your plans and the time frame, the coastal towns may or may not be such a good idee. Reason being that during the winter months in the Cape Town , George, Port Elizabeth and East London, the weather can be a big factor in you completing a course in the scheduled time period. Having said this you must take into account that it can be managed though. In PE I rate the Keith Patterson outfit very highly and will reccommend it strongly.

43 Air School is also good, but very commercialized. If you want more info , please send me a personal mail and I will be happy to discuss.

Happy Landings

[ct2003]

Hi,

also from my side some input to your thoughts. My background is German (most posters seem to have an UK or SA background here). I am employed in a worldwide aviation consulting companmy so I have some idea about pilot training and airline employment but with personal focus on Europe and SA. Some years ago, I also asked myself the question where (and how) to train as I used to live and work in SA for more than a year. I finally did my PPL back in Europe, will move on there (JAA) but also did some hour building in SA (Stellenbosch).
This post reflects my view and opinion, I don't want to be rude to anyother folks here.

Question 1 (also asked by others before):
Where (and how) do you plan your first years working as a pilot?
If you plan to work in the EU, rather get an JAA licence. There is no place in SA offering JAA acknowledged ATPL courses/licence/exams. It is comparably easy to get a SA PPL and then convert it to a JAA PPL. There are also JAA ATPL courses in the EU with entry requirement of an PPL, not matter if JAA, FAA or ICAO (like SA).
All other options you need to carefully check with YOUR relevant CAA. The UK SAA accepts course concepts having part of the ATPL training in SA. The German CAA does not accept this, they only acknowledged a few flight schools with parts of their traing in the US.
Apart from the PPL, most "higher" licences and ratings from SA are not easy to convert to JAA. You often need to undergo the relevant JAA theory exam as well as practical skills tests, sometimes with additional conversion training. All this conversion is impossible with minimum or low hours (like right after ATPL) but needs a high number of hours flown.
Result: If your aim is to fly in the EU economics and also time don't add up so rather do a JAA training from the beginning (may be with SA PPL).
If you are intending to stay in SA you must not underestimate the issue of a work permit in SA. I assume that this will merely be impossible to get easily as there are many qualified pilots in SA. SA is much more stricter than EU countries, they are protectiong their local workforce.
Also keep in mind that the EU pilot market/airlines (may be apart from ultra boom phases like 2006/2007) is not based on the US or SA like priciple of "working yourself up" (CPL/ATPL, then flight instructor, then C210, then B200, then B1900, then...) up to 1500 or more hours before getting into a medium or heavy a/c. There are a lot of EU airlines who actually don't like this way as they rather train their pilots from scratch or soon after to there standards without years long bush flying habits.

Question 2:
What style of training would you prefer?
In Germany, we are not used to that style of flight schools like a boarding school where you have to wear pilot shirts, tie, blue trousers and black shoes for the entire duration of your training.
Many UK flight schools (OAA, CTC...) are like that, 43 air school is also one of these mass pilot factories.
There is also another question involved: Do you want some kind of life apart from the flight training? I would then recommend Stellenbosch Flying Club or may be Cape Town Flight Training (about the latter, I am not 100% sure about their advanced training offers). You can then live in Cape Town or Stellenbosch, bot very nice places. I do not recommend Cape Town Flying Club, they might be good but they are much more expensive than others around. Both other schools are located closer to CPT airport (but not at CPT) so that you get in touch with CPT traffic and ATC most of the times anyway but you do not wate time because of the congested traffic at many times a day.

If you should decide for SA training I recommend to go there first and check out the possible places before deciding and signing for training.

[Propellerpilot]

Long bush flying habits :cool: - what a pity at least we know how to fly a plane :)

I now that you are right, however you will be confronted with SOPs and Multicrew when starting to operate under Part121 at the latest and usually operators are quite strict even in SA. I also agree that joining a cadet scheme in Europe would be the best if the goal is stricly airlines - at an age under 20 that would be the way to go, pity AItalia is pretty down. The guys getting the bush job is usually in his or her mid twenties or older as this is single pilot ops - companies do not always trust youngsters with their 1.5 million C210 and selfloading cargo. Because the airlines want conformity, they want the guys to all tick the same, which is good in a sense but can also pose a danger of hating your job and your collegues one day because there is no variety. It is however also not true that a pilot with thousands of hours in a 1900 can not adapt to these procedures as well. Flying is not rocket science - it is to gain as much experience as possible and learn doing what ever it takes to fly safe - that is the real art. So I think it is just a philosophy.

In Germany (and other JAA countries will be similar, but make sure) you "only" have to write the 14 subjects and have 1500 comercial hours, do a skills test with an examiner on the type you will be employed on and you will be issued a JAA license. The best is to fly in the UAE, get that license and then covert it into a JAR-ATP.

[B Sousa]

Flight training aside, only one or two here have addressed the fact that she is 18 years old and is going to hop off an airliner in a country that will eat her alive within an hour.
She should have a chaparone of some sorts until she does a serious reality check on conditions of just getting around.
Next thing you know someone here will say she can get cheap housing in one of the townships which gives her a life expectancy of maybe 24 hours.
Come on folks, help this girl out and then worry about the training.

[Propellerpilot]

Well said BSousa ! I didn't want to say it like that but you are right.

Another thing that worries me is that it may be sort of custom for youths to blow "kisses" at each other, however this does not belong in a professional pilot forum - I really have to say to almost all of you that posted here: respect, great to see that you still took the lady seriously, I almost expected her to get blasted with connotations.

Many people read this forum and guess what will happen if a 18 year old italian "girl" that threw virtual kisses at everyone around here, rocks up the flightschool next door...

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Geez OLVpilot that is quite a speech... Age:23 and claiming to be a best instructor. Why would you and your collegues be so much better and how can you compare yourself to some of our SA instructors??? That is a particular American attitude that many folks outside your borders dispise - being better than the rest of the world. If the lady chooses not to train in the US for mentioned reasons, then your posting here just shows you do not have a clue when a touch of modesty would be slightly more applicable.

Unlike the arrogance of those who know it all and never miss a chance to take cheap shots at the USA.:hmm:

[marliz]

ok ok ok........time out!!!!

then, i must made a breath before..................

Just for clear some concept!

i want start my flying school in SA, i like that place
i know that is dangerous but here in Italy we live
at the centre of 97 Nuclear Power Plant around us
From Spain to France, Swiss, Austria, Slovenia, Croazia, Greece, i don't know how prob i have if one of this
go wrong, so i like the open space of SA and fly over that and not over here!

I never claim that i want work in Europe, a lot of you tell me that i must convert Jaa, convert here convert there, no work for me, etccc.
For the last time a that this is very very clear!!!!

I DON'T WANT WORK IN EUROPE AFTER MY FLYING SCHOOL!!

I want live, fly, be happy, have friends, see the world
have a family, extreme normal things no more of this,
very simple, i don't want Airline company, 747 Airbus,
NG non NG Super type rating etc......i leave all of this to you, i only can fly for safari? ok is good for me, i can only fly C210 or some little chrter, well non problem, i only can made air spray, best for you! i leave at you all the place in all the gorgeus great airfamouscompanyawarded in the world, take it all, i just want fly, simply, look around look at the animals, look at the life look at the sky, and look at me...........

If for someone kisses are a problem and are not serious ok, no more kisses!

ciao Fedy

[thewatcher]

Dear Marliz,

I wish you succeed in everything you plan for your life and future. I was starting to admire your determination and maturity till this last post that reminded me that after all you are just a teenager that still have to learn what patience and respect is and I advice you to start controlling your reactions if you want to survive wherever you may decide to go!

Another African proverb (besides the one from the title) says "It's a bad child who does not take advice" so be a good girl and don't behave as a brat. := Just take into account all advices that people here gave you all with the best intentions and do as you like. After all no one obliged you to do something that you don't like and what makes you furious is maybe the fact that you have realized that things are not so simple as you may have imagined! Maybe you need to grow up a little bit more before taking this step !

Good luck because you'll need it!

[Propellerpilot]

In that case I recommend you go do your PPL somewhere on vacation in SA or wherever so that you can have fun. Then go to college or university and get a degree in something you like, while you can always hourbuild between semesters. Then go for the higher licences-you will have more life experience and confidence, it will be more likely to land a job and if all else fails you have something to fall back on - a very good thing to have. You are young and have all the time in the world.

[rick1128]

Fedy,

Propellerpilot has made some good suggestions. Having a degree and something to fall back on is something to consider.

You asked for advice so please take it as it was given. Many of us who commented on this thread are concerned for your future well being and safety. The suggestion to do your Private Pilot course while on a holiday, would be a prudent step to consider.

I realize that it sounds thrilling to be an African Bush Pilot, flying around the bush all day. Books and Movies make it seem so. However, my first job was flying a Cessna 140 on floats in the bush of Northern Maine. Bush flying is not all the movies or books make it out to be. Long hours, hard work, old tired airplanes, pushy bosses and passengers and so on. It can and does get old quite quickly.

The world looks much different through 18 year old eyes, than it does 50, 40 or even 30 year old eyes. It is much easier to learn when you are younger, so look at getting good qualifications and background as early as possible. Please keep in mind, that while you presently do not want to fly in Europe, you as a EU citizen will always have the right to work there. So having JAA qualifications will give some sort of backup. Plus JAA and FAA qualifications are among the easiest certificates to get validated in other countries.

I started like you many years ago. I did my training right out of High School and got my private, commercial, instrument and instructor one after another. While I was attending college. It isn't easy and the hours were long. I flew full time in the summer, fire patrol, instructing and so on. When I started looking at this career field, I talked with as many professional pilots I could. This was well before the internet and I was in a small area. Just about everyone I talked with told me to get a degree. This industry will always have its ups and downs, so having something else to back you up is well worth considering. Plus I have gotten a few jobs, just because I had a degree. As I look back at it now, I am glad I did get the degree, because if I did not, I would presently be looking back at my life saying, 'If only I had done this'. That is not a good feeling to have late in your career.

Working in this industry has never been easy. Your life will always be controlled by the economy, long odd hours, changing time zones, and so on. When you commit to this industry you are committing yourself to a lifestyle that most people will never understand or be able to deal with.

[organ donor]

Well, this thread has turned into something special. All the poor girl wanted to know was some recommendations for a flight school in South Africa, and it has turned into a lesson in life for her, travel advice, emotional advice, and some bizzare suggestions for her to start training in countries she is not even interested in. How about just answering her question?

Marliz, I can't answer your question either, but the best suggestion I can make is get together a shortlist of schools, in various places here, come over, and spend a couple of weeks traveling to each one to give you a feel for the place and the schools before you commit to a particular one.

good luck

[eish]

Well done boys - I love the way in which you all take pity on Marliz (seriously) and it makes me proud to be a man.

If the thread was started by an 18 year old male prospective student we would have had 3 replies :).

Marliz - I will adopt you for 18 months then you can live in Pretoria and do your CPL at Loutzavia - I can recommend a good instructor who incidentally is also my son :ok:

[marliz]

Dear eish, thank you for the support, i have start a contact with someone at Loutzavia, don't know if he is your son or not, but was very fine with me and my father, like i said before i plan a trip to SA to visit some schools, for my study here in Italy (is the last year for me) i can only stay in SA 7 days to do this so i must made a circle of the
most good and serious schools around, i appreciate if you can give me in PM some good info or some address where i can go and talk,

obvious i must stay in SA for at least 1 year after i decide where

and then i need a good and serious instructor that take my hand and take me to CPL like a father.

Hope my dream come true but also understand everyday that is an hard road.

regards

Fedy

[Siguarda al fine]

Eish! You are a man after my own heart what a good idea this can work for the little girl.

[marliz]

i plan to depart from Italy in the last days of february
if my father can take some days far away from his work,
we have look at a lot of school, and after a lot of contact the circle is
more small. i like some school that impressed me also on the web,
otherwise some other don't like, hope to made the right thing
in the meantime all suggest and info are always welcome.

regards

Fedy

[perceval]

good luck in finding your school .enjoy the trip , the flying later , and africa in general .

[RedB@ron]

Do yourself a favor and go and look at Progress Flight Academy.Their website is really bad,but its been like that for years!

The school is really good and has very high standards, and I reckon with the accomodation they offer it will suit your needs prefectly.

Their fleet is also really young.90% of their aircraft is under 10 years old.

Also the weather in PE is ideal for all your training needs.Bad weather every now and then, but that's exactly what you will need when you do your IF training.

Good luck.:ok:

[avionimc]

Hi Fedy,


I assume you want to become a professional pilot.

If you just want to please your Dad and spend lots of money, then go to SA. Try these and other fine schools/contacts already mentioned in earlier threads:

www.algoafc.co.za (http://www.algoafc.co.za) TEL. +27-415813274
CFI DAVE PERELSON TEL +27-827722961
CFI (Ms.) IVANHOE PERELSON TEL +27-825771794

or

www.43airschool.com (http://www.43airschool.com)
CFI RUSSELL LANGLEY TEL +27-722193658
* * *

Why not then earn a FAA pilot certificate in Europe: www.orbifly.com (http://www.orbifly.com/) it will cost you the same kind of money you will spend in SA, not more! And it will be in a better aircraft (Europa, Diamond or Cirrus), busier airspace and in a more challenging environment & weather. www.orbifly.com/index.php?mode=tutor&lang=ENG (http://www.orbifly.com/index.php?mode=tutor&lang=ENG)


* * *
If you want to become a better pilot, compared to merely have an expensive "paper pilot license”; and enjoy a real aviation experience, then go to the US and learn to fly in an environment where aviation is, and always has been, a normal activity, and not an extraordinary one as it is in the rest of the world.


Make sure to also participate at the EAA Airventure in Oshkosh (end July/early August).


Forget the political views of your father: go to the US, you won't regret it! And, the money you will save in learning to fly there will allow you to give a substantial donation to a good humanitarian cause in Africa. I mean it!


Here are a few contacts I can recommend (but remember: the most important is to find a good or excellent instructor, not a school):

www.prairieairservice.com (http://www.prairieairservice.com/) TEL +1-316-778-1712 -- CFI Herb Pello :ok:

www.iflytailwind.net (http://www.iflytailwind.net) -- CFI Bruce Vogel, TEL +1-720-201-2063 :ok:

www.atpflightschool.com (http://www.atpflightschool.com/) -- All CFIs I met there were really good! :ok:


To prepare and pass FAA written test(s): www.aviationseminars.com (http://www.aviationseminars.com/) :ok:


To prepare for the FAA oral exams and check rides: www.kingschools.com (http://www.kingschools.com)


Check also these web sites:


www.aopa.org/learntofly (http://www.aopa.org/learntofly)
www.beapilot.com (http://www.beapilot.com)

www.eaa.org (http://www.eaa.org)
www.eaa.org/apps/blog/learntofly/Default.aspx (http://www.eaa.org/apps/blog/learntofly/Default.aspx)

www.ninety-nines.org/license.html (http://www.ninety-nines.org/license.html)


( www.airventure.org (http://www.airventure.org/) )


Happy Landings, Buona Fortuna,

[marliz]

Ok all is done, i want thanks many people that help me in find and contact schools in SA, i want thanks in particular a guy that help me a lot, i have arranged a meet with him here in Milan with my father, you all give me a lot of info, some more some less, and i appreciate, in the future i hope to see one two or more of you out there in SA, who know what the future reserve for us?

:)

Have a nice flying and a gret day!

Kisses for all ;) ;)

Fedy

[lexxie747]

have a nice flying and a gret day.
right old wind up.

[ct2003]

Ciao Fedy,

after all the discussion here, would you mind to tell us where and how you actually intend to undergo your training?

May be see you in RSA air space then...

Happy landings!

[marliz]

at the moment i have 3 options, the choice is only now a logistic question.
I am a girl i need a safe and secure place where live for about 1 year
close to the airport is not now important stay in Lanseria, Wonderboom or Grand Central, important is solve this question.
when decide about this 3 options i am happy to tell you!

Fedy

[alpha_lima_xray]

:8 From Dublin here, heading down to Cape Town for PPL, is it really that dangerous? Can anyone point me in the right direction for decent apartments/areas near FACT?

[Gooneybird]

Hey Marliz, for a number of reasons I wouldn't go to Jo'burgh. Firstly without a vehicle you can't go anywhere and it's wayyy to spread out to use private taxis. That said you'll need a vehicle, a car anyway. Hope you have a drivers license.

I came here from the UK in 2002, straight to George but, I already had a Canadian private license and most of my hours. I found the level of organization in SA pilot training quite hit and miss. Also the curriculum for the PPL in those days was very dated compared to Canada/USA, maybe this has changed. The controllers here feel that they are Gods irritated by pilots. The controllers in North America feel they are service providers to pilots.
You don't need a South African pilots license to fly in Africa. To see the world there better things than being a pilot.

To alpha_lima_xray: Go down the bottom of Blouberg road in Cape Town and you'll see many estate agents with properties to rent on short and long term basis. Count on about $500 USD per month. It's hard for me to answer the dangerous bit as I've been on this continent along time now and am a bit desensitized but, South Africans tend to be drama queens when talking about it. They seem to have the impression that rape, murder and car jacking is peculiarly South African. Put it this way, plenty of young South Africans go out at night in certain areas and enjoy a fairly enviable outdoor lifestyle compared with many other countries. You do have to have your wits about you and make friends here who can show you the ropes but beyond that there are bad areas and good areas like everywhere else in the world.

Good luck.

[organ donor]

Alpha lima xray,

Your best option would be to rent in the CBD or City bowl. I have a flat in the city bowl that I rent out to pilots for R3500 a month. You will be able to get a place for around R3000 min.
Failing that, if you are Afrikaans go stay in the northern suburbs, places like Durbanville, Blouberg, or if you are English speaking stay in the southern suburbs, like Claremont, Kennilworth. (This is a grossly steriotyped statement)
I would stay away from Observatory, Mobray, Athlone, and anywhere within 10 kms of FACT. If you look on a map of Capetown you will see these places and get an idea.
Make sure you have your own transport as there effectively isn't a public transport system.

Capetown is a safe place, you just have to keep your wits about you a bit more than you would in European cities.

Good luck

[Tapejara]

Ever thought of Namibia? VERY safe, flying is not that expensive AND with its excellent weather - makes it an ideal place to do flight training. Lots of private and other accommodation available.

Contact me at [email protected] for more info if you're serious about this.

[contrabando]

Otherwise my parents don't like much the style of life in USA,

Yeah, really. I live in the bug infested, fly blown state of Florida USA and believe it or not...I WANT TO GO BACK TO bug infested, fly blown Africa!

[Deegan]

Dear Fedy,

over 70,000 (!!) forreign students are doing their licence after FAA Rules every year.

In my opinion, as a Pilot you have to be flexible anyway as the jobs hardy come to you - you have to go and get the jobs.

Many Pilots here moved to other counrtys to get their jobs.

The FAA licence is in may states all over the Globe easy to convert and dont expires, too.

So if you want to go on and work in Europe - I recommend the JAA JAR license.

Anywhere outside Europe FAA