LTN closed for snow??

[VP8]

It's started to snow here at 2320z, any bets on when the runway will be closed???

Brgds
VP8 ;)

[LTN man]

I was listening to the fireman last year who operate the equipment on their
radio frequency. Despite snow being forecast they had to retrieve some of
the snow clearing equipment from various parts of the airport, as it wasn't
on standby. De-icer booms would not open out, grip testers would not function and snowploughs would not start. A fireman throwing a stick at a
dog with a broom tied to its tail would have had more impact on snow
clearance at Luton last year.

[VP8]

That's what i was thinking matey, coming past Hanger 51 there seemed equipment under repair!!

Brgds
VP8 ;)

[BOEINGBOY1]

now there's a fvck!ng surprise!!! 3 or 4 flakes of snow and ltn has to again be the only airport in the country to close ( anyone care to prove otherwise). makes our so called "international" airport a pathetic joke and embarassment. the past few years have seen no change despite management changes and ltn still being the only airport closing for snow. why - cos a) ltn has no snow plough and b) they wait till every last single flake of snow has rested before even attempting to clear, by which time the snow has compacted and turned to ice. the so called snow clearing equipment (a few tractors with rotating brushes attached) by now have no effect possibly even adding to the problem. simple answer and reccommendation to ltn airport management. after removing fingers from arseh0les, buy a snow plough, and for christ fvck!ng sake - USE IT EARLY. why is it so hard to "begin" clearing a runway of snow in the early stages (like every other airport - even the much smaller provincial airports).

[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: BOEINGBOY1 ]

[Stagnation Point]

Whos the biggest operator into LTN and how much do they pay in landing charges, perhaps the airport can't afford a snow plough and give discounted landing fees. :eek:

[The Guvnor]

What idiot uses snowploughs for snow? Come on people, everyone knows that they are valuable pieces of kit designed specifically for preventing aircraft belonging to airlines that are about to go tango uniform from leaving without paying their bills first!

Clearing snow indeed! :D :D :D

Ummmmm, how do we clear snow around here, chaps? :puzzled: :eek: :puzzled:

[aviaraptor]

BOEINGBOY1

Too bad your not a pilot. A pilot would appreciate an airport operator who doesn't leave the runway open in poor viz conditions when occupied by eight pieces of snow clearing equipment. Then again if you want to operate in snow conditions and not have clear runways check out Munich 1958.

You should check the SNOWTAMs

090429 EGGWZTZX
SNOWTAM002
A) EGGW
B) 11090410
C) 26
F) 2/2/2
H) .60 .65 .66 GRP
T) AERODROME OPEN 0410

090319 EGGWZTZX
SNOWTAM 01
A)EGGW
B)11090307
C)26
F)5/5/5
H).31 .67.28 GRP
L)TOTAL
M)0600
T)RUNWAY AND TAXIWAYS DEICED

I'm sure another Ppruner will help you decode the SNOWTAM if you can't read it.

BTW FR had diversion into LTN from STN because of early closure of the runway which was due to be closed for maintenance because of ....snow. LTN had a diversion to SEN during the closure however, there was another issue wind was gusting at at 25 kts at 80 degrees to 26/08. Prudence rules.

[BOEINGBOY1]

aviaraptor. what a complete and utter moron you are.
quote "A pilot would appreciate an airport operator who doesn't leave the runway open in poor viz conditions when occupied by eight pieces of snow clearing equipment"
very true (eight pieces of equipment is genorous for ltn isn't it - bet there still isn't a single snow plough amonst it.
nobody is suggesting that the airport should remain open if clearing is taking place, or indeed if runway/taxiway conditions are below par. problem is that ltn remains closed with no attempt at clearance. i am pointing out that the airport management should not let the runway get to the state that they have done in previous years before comencing operations to clear. if frequent runway sweeps are commenced (depending on severity, maybe even after every rwy movement) snow would not be allowed to settle and would not turn into compacted ice which then takes an eternity to shift. any delay for rwy sweeping is not a problem - the problem is (as in last year) when you are sitting on the apron waiting to departfrom ltn, with the airport having been closed for 3hrs already with zero attempt at clearing, and then you are advised that clearing will take a further 3hrs +. it tends to p!$$ you off. question is, why cannot snow clearing commence whilst snow is still falling? come on aviaraptor you are obviously so upto scratch on this subject, perhaps you could offer us an explanation.why cannot snow clearing commence whilst snow is still falling?

[Guvnor]

Boeingboy1 - Congratulations on your posting. I count 39 syntax, spelling or grammar mistakes. Is this a Pprune record for one paragraph?

----------
NOW who gives a damn?!?

[Pete Otube]

Guvnor - you're wrong again! I make it only 35.

[4llA]

Oh booger, GUVNOR.
I only get 27.
You're making this up; aren't you?
None here.

[FlapsOne]

I'd check out the use of the semi-colon if I were you.

[BOEINGBOY1]

dislexicks rule ko !

[VP8]

LTN must have spent some money as I saw a brand new Rolba driving along Percival Rd today!!! Either that or it was a demo vehicle to see what they could have had...

VP8 :)

[LTN man]

I can remember last Christmas easyJet moaning like hell about LTN being snow closed for around 18 hours only to cancel even more flights over the following days when Reeds had only one operational aircraft de-icer to cover the whole airport. I see easyjet have bought their own equipment this year.

[fmgc]

LTN Man

Shame on you, having to slag off another compnay to try and divert attaention away from your own problems.

Guvnor,

Lost for things to say, reosrt to sarcasm.

[dwlpl]

LTN Man,

Does not EJ now do there own passenger/aircraft handling?

[LTN man]

Yes but they used to contract out de-icing to Reeds. There were problems from last October with de-icing, which I raised at a management meeting in November with LLA but as the Airport Authority have no input in the amount of aircraft de-icers at the airport there was nothing that the airport could do.

What I will never understand was that the writing was on the wall and yet easyjet and Reeds were taken by surprise even though there was often only one serviceable de-icer available for most of the autumn, which had already caused problems for easyjet.

[Tarek Nor]

boeingboy

If LTN was so bad, what were the FR B737-800's doing there ?

Just come to play in the snow, or diverted from elsewhere ? :rolleyes:

[BOEINGBOY1]

tarek
could it have been operating an fr flight from ltn? they do fly from ltn you know. i would hazard a guess that any other fr737's diverted in from stn (well outside ltn snow clousure period) and did so because of the excessive crosswind being experienced at stn at the time.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

The Ryanair flights both diverted into Luton from Stansted - one was ex Dublin, the other ex Pescara.

Whilst weather (cross-wind/snow) at STN may have been the problem, I think it is more likely that both flights were running late and fell foul of the runway work that it taking place at night at present. The work has lead to a couple of other STN flights diverting/operating to Luton over the past few nights, although I'm not sure if there is a total runway closure or reduced landing distance available.

[ 12 November 2001: Message edited by: OLNEY 1 BRAVO ]

[aviaraptor]

BOEINGBOY1

I see your position now. You are a pilot who is embarrassed to fly from Luton because airport management were unable to clear snow last year. Well what do you expect from a Bank. I hear the money changing facilities were good though.

Any airport worth its salt (no pun) starts its snow planning 4-6 months before the season. The plan should be updated every year to take account of the lessons learnt from the last snowfall. Cleartly what can't be anticipated until the day is the type of snow (I sound like Brit Rail and leaves on the line). Snow planning on the day typically occurs with the forecast when the anti-icing measures are considered. Air temp vs Ground temp, humidity and dew point etc. If the icelert and open runway programmes indicate a trend then the runway is usually closed to anti-ice. The use of anti-icing fluid/crystals is designed to stop ice formation. Get the timing wrong and you make the situation worse. De-icing and snow clearance occurs once the snow is settling. The is no point in clearing snow when it is falling unless it is sticking.

The type of snow falling (and sticking) will dictate whether the aiport uses a plough -if there is a large accumulation, a snow biter -for drifts, or rotating brushes. If the snow is slushy brushes and ploughs tend to be either useless or just clog. The best bet would be a vehicle mounted de Havilland Goblin (showing my age now)or some such with a hot jet directed at the slush. There is however a tad of a problem with this approach - it can melt the runway.

I understand that last year the snow froze to the runway - big mistake. You have to work hard to clear in that case - usually manpower. I think the big issue was even when the surfaces were clear, the one ac de-icing truck was not available.

I expereinced the same at STN last year on an early morning dep. when we were told that we were number 12 for de-icing and it was going to take at least 15 minutes for each ac.

Let's hope it doesn't snow -oh dear tonight looks like more dodgy weather.

[rob- johnsons- pigeon]

Try getting a snow plough from the football ground!

[machone]

With the inceases in charges to use Ltn there should be no problem for the airport to keep it open this winter Ha!Ha!