Virgin Nigeria

[flying paddy]

Hi Chaps

Was wondering if anyone has any news from VK regarding the non payment of salaries. I hear that the pay is late every month, and that the pilots are getting a bit uneasy.

I also hear that the airline does not have enough money to pay for maintenance and that VNC has had to be left behind in France as they could not secure any finance to get an engine.

These must be worrying times for those left in Lagos.

Cheers

Paddy

[Gaius Westman]

TIA.....nothing abnormal here.

[LongJohnThomas]

flying paddy,
From experience in that neck of the woods, it's not difficult to see when a company is going belly up!
For those who're still there hoping to move on to the EMB190 or some long-haul fantacy?:= I wish you luck!
This is time to dust your CV's and start looking.
For me, late payments are the first indication that something has fundamentally gone wrong.:ugh:
When it reaches the stage that pilots refuse to fly, they'll start to get salaries off sales of tickets to pay, by which time, its already too late!:ouch:
Unfortunately, this is the jungle! You just have to learn to see the signs.:{
Time to move boys, thankfully, Arik has the 'METAL' to keep you all busy.:D
Here goes the once cherished positions held by those who never in their wildest imagination, believed they could possibly be bestowed with such.:}
A word is enough for the wise!:oh:
LJT:ok:

[AVSEC]

Pity.
VK as far as I am concerned have tried to provide excellent service under difficult operating conditions.
They are an excellent airline.
ALML their services provider is also an excellent company,and I feel for them if the claim opening this thread is true.
I hope it is not true,and if it is true that they come out of it intact.
If anyone can,ALML and current VK mgmt should be able to.
Good luck guys.

[NDB17]

AVSEC,

Don't blow smoke up our rear end. The current management were the ones that screwed up everything. Govt or the environment has nothing to do with the financial screw ups in the company. Get your facts straight.

[5N Pilot]

A company that employs alot of expats,and puts them in luxurious apartments, while they barely manage to fly 40 block hours a month will surely rock the boat.Guys, call me racist or eat me alive, but that is a waste and the fact..Pilots are living like Kings, doing nothing at the expense of the company.Some have been in the employ of virgin for almost a year now and have not flown even one sector.The company is over bloated.At the end of the day, the same expats will pack their bags and leave while the locals will be left behind with red eyes when the company folds up.I am not against expats please but a good planning will do.I am just citing one of the factors that has led to the problem.VK also has a lot of ground staff (locals)doing nothing from the check in counters to the ramp and etibets place.:cool:

[BALEWA]

5N-Pilot, no worries mate, we have room for local pilots here at Arik.

No red eyes allowed over at VirginNigeria as far as I´m concerned, hopefully this will not be the case, but if it happens will be waiting with arms wide open.

Goodluck and hang in there.

B
PS: Balewa supports local Pilots:D
PS2: LJT heard from me mates here at Arik u once flew for VirginNigeria, this true!;)

[AVSEC]

hey,hey....
Pilots are not the only employees at VK.
Apparently some think only pilot rostering/commuting is an essential part of what can make VK successful or not.
Shame on you.

[LongJohnThomas]

BALEWA,
Your mates are entitled to imagine who i may be, or where i might have worked in the past. No problem with that.
I am curious to know why you ask though, and what significance that would have to Vk going belly-up?:eek:

5N Pilot,
I agree with you that the management of Vk has been the reason why Vk has ended up where it is. As i hear it, thats now a company where HR has more of a say in operations than the DFO,CP etc?:ugh:
Apparently, the said HR guru's have been the master-minds of running the company into the ground with their less then ideal ideas about how an Aviation company should be run! :rolleyes:
What do you expect when most of them came form British-American Tobacco; Unseemly thinking this is the advent of cigarette marketing and advertisements??!!:rolleyes::yuk::ugh:

fayz76,
I shall ask your ear here.
I would imagine that what 5N Pilot refers to is basically what i have stated above or at least along those lines. Venting his frustration on what he may see daily or perceive.
I must point out that though you may view his statements as racist, i would implore you to see it differently.
I do agree though, that his mention of the word 'racist' must have spurred your response.
Expats sometimes come as Black people from other countries and do not necessarily have to be white.
If I for instance, took one of the deals being offered me either by Flightdeckrecruitment or one of the other agencies? I would be heading to Lagos as an expat, regardless of my nationality.
I must say, that what you have stated holds water.
Different people perceive particular events differently. It all depends on what angle an individual tends to view the same event.
I see where you are coming from, and i also see where 5N Pilot is coming from too.
You're both on the same side, just having two different views of the same situation.
I ask that we do not go into the racial connotations that could result from this thread and try to keep this discussion civil and within the boundaries of why Vk seems to be going under.

I BEG OF YOU ALL!!

LJT.:ok:

[5N Pilot]

Fayz76, i will like to ask you one question please: Are u not underutilized? How many hours do you fly ?How many staff and aircrafts does VK have? I am sure the answer will suffice.

If you feel insulted however, please i am very sorry, but in the context of VK being mismanaged, i stand by what i have written.

LJT, yes you are very much right, the DFO and CP are now errand boys of the HR, to the detriment of the company and VK pilots are treated as second class staff.

[flying paddy]

Someday VK HR should ask themselves if who justifies their jobs in the first place.

Oh and BTW I can confirm that there is no racism from expats who are working for VK, in fact I could go on to say that it is more of reverse racism in Lagos, without doubt I would say that some expats are treated with utter contempt.

Just an observation.

FP

[seper]

My fellow ppruners, note that this thread was started by a disgruntled racist from S.A fired from VK recently,for his racist behavioural traits.

They were so happy to see him go,they almost held a party!

He is very pained!first jet job!

Any opportunity to run down vk..................................

To all VK pilots,listen to LJT,it may be time to dust your cv's

[18left]

5N-PILOT
if the VK expat is your idea of luxury,i really would be afraid to see what "basics" mean to you

VK has the WORST deal for expats

-paid in local currency and in local banks and hit hard by exchange rate fluctuations
-only one month leave a year
-leave tickets are sorted out by expats themselves
-no meals in guest house
-transport srtictly for work,on your own for anything else
-medicals at your own expense.

Is this luxury?

They most have the lowest overheads for expats for any airline in Nigeria!

So how do they live like kings?

Guest house has bed tv/dstv and a swiming pool with algae................ are this luxury
you confuse me 5N-PILOT!

[NDB17]

Faisal,

I dont believe the "locals" are against you guys. Dont forget some of the locals live abroad, and have similar circumstances as you. The problem is the idiotic attitudes in the company and the fact that there are no avenues to vent. So what may seem as racist or anti-foreign attitudes are just misplaced frustrations.
I have to agree that the foreign guys have the worst terms in the nigerian aviation scene. But as you know the mgmt pilots are not going to do anything to help you guys. If it doesn't benefit them, to hell with you.
You guys need to come together and fight your battles, trust me on this.

Seper,
I beg to disagree, Flying Paddy may be a racist, i dont care. But is anything he posted racist?

[flying paddy]

I am afraid that having lived in africa for a very long time it has become obvious to me that any expat who airs a difference of opinion that flys in the face of any african plan, gets branded as a racist.

I just threw a question out there to see what the boys where thinking about.

cheers

FP

[Hold position]

They have just lost two pilots last week due to bad management decision to stop paying them their per diem . then not giving them the accommodation allowance .they still waiting to be paid their last month salary !!:=

[Shunanny]

NDB17, please edit your post...no use of PIN's please.

If the original post is true, and I have heard the rumors on the street, then this is sad.

The major bane of VK has been an overly powerful HR department, with no working knowledge of the aviation industry.

Secondly, and no less important, was the staffing at top management level, again no working knowledge of the aviation industry. FACTS.

Then there was the government interference which forced VK to start the international routes 3years too early, pull a/c out of scheduled services for an ill fated hadj exercise etc, etc.

lastly, whats this with refusing a major backer, UBA, from buying majority shares....if true.

At the end of the day, a bad case fro aviation in Nigeria.


And for all, the expats at VK have the worst deal ever. No Work, No Rec, enough to drive you up the wall..sad a lot of good chaps and lassies there.

[seper]

NDB17

SHUNANNY said it all!I believe and agree with him 100% on his analysis of VK.Mangement did them in!

My own intention is to point out that the likes of FLYING PADDY,are not people with any reliable information,but members of a "i must run down vk at all cost"

He is yet to deny that he was fired from VK!
Check his previous posts,that will show you this gentleman has scores to settle!

Dispassionate views like yours is what we want!

[Hussar 54]

If Flying Paddy is the guy I suspect he is, I would say he is no more racist than the other 30,000 plus ex-pats based in God's Own Country....

I'm European and hope I'm not racist...and I try very, very hard not to be racist - but after five years trying to deal with the bureaucracy and locals' attitudes here, it is almost too easy to either become racist or to appear racist due quite simply to the frustrations/conditions which Nigeria, and Lagos in particular, throw at you 24/7/365....

Was having a beer with some of the VK guys last week - to a man, all seemed pissed-off and couldn't wait to move on....The old timers to somewhere a bit ' easier ' to work and live, the younger guys to somewhere a bit ' easier ' to live....Not too sure they represent the attitudes of the whole of VK's crews, but seems to me that pretty soon the combined effects of VK's management and a Lagos basing might mean that VK soon will be one of the very, very few companies with more aircraft than crew....

[NIJASEA]

VK had a problem right off the bat when it was started, run by a set of managers who did not have the interest of the airline at heart but their own selfish needs. Sorry to say this but unless the company takes a real hard look at its expenditure it wont last the year. Forget expat crew and staff they dont cost that much in the scheme of things, talk about leasing a piece of junk (767) to operate against major operators. Realising the mess and starting from the foundation is a good start but it will take a lot of patience on the part of the staff to bolster and rally behind the management to make it work. All the advise and ideas can be put on this site but I really believe the management who can change things dont read this and those that read this site have their hands tied by those who are out for themselves.
I wish VK a long and speedy recovery.

[LongJohnThomas]

Hey guys,
As Nijasea has said the problem is NOT the expats, Not racism and surely Not the pilots in general.
The management team that VK has are a mess to say the least.
Unfortunately, Vk is now in a spiral nose dive. Recovery will only happen with an injection of some Arik kind of money, and the complete overhaul of the current management starting with HR.
The greatest problem a man can have, is NOT knowing he actually does have one!
The people in Vk right now do not admit there is a problem and that it's chocking them to death!
They all seem to sell the sugar-coated story that all is well at the moment.
Hopefully, the smart ones will see the light and get out now whilst the chance to get re-hired is still a plausible move.
It would be sad to find some 'under the tree' as was once a reference for unemployed Pilots in Lagos.
Like i said before, its time to pack your bags, dust your CV's and move on boys!!
Vk has done its share, sadly, its one of those carriers that will be remembered in folktale.

[AVSEC]

Dammmnnnnnnnn.Is it that bad?

[Cyclopps]

True true vk has some real management issues.
and the 767..,that's another story altogether.

[flying paddy]

Hi

Sources tell me that some Pilots have been paid this month, does anyone have any details on what the selection policy of VK is when it comes too who they wish to pay.

cheers
FP

[NIJASEA]

FP
if you don't work for VK anymore or ever did (don't really care), do you think it's a professional attitude to bring up the order of pay considering the airline is (as we hope) trying to get it's cr@p together.
Would it make a huge difference in your life who got paid first or not.This is a site to air views and make comments not a place for a personal vandetta against an airline or persons in the airline. :=
BTW I dont work for VK.

[Jettprop]

NIJASEA......your words = my words

[seper]

NIJASEA/JETTPROP your words=my words

By the way silence they say is the best answer for a :mad:l

[atedo]

Naijasea you are right, VK problem is poor decision made by management; the B763, ever readiness to sort out none-ops probs and very slow to sort ops probs. Instead of fixing the Long haul acft, they were busy developing products to cussion the killer machine. This products milked VK big time and product owners fed the milk from.

the reality is there and can be fixed if the management refocuse on the bizness and stop Spending jamboree as was the case before.

Also if they close some products and sections which are money draining and focuse on lifting pax from point A to B and ontime, 95% of their probs is solved.

Most of the decision that took VK to this slump was caused by none aviation directors who were not checked in their excesses and this affected the morale of the Ground and Ops staff.

VK can survive bcos the traveling naija public loves VK but flt delays sent them away; with improved otp, they will be back.

Sincerely if VK STOP unnecessary expenses, VK will be there for a very long time.:sad:

[hotmj43]

The dye was cast a long time ago, for events to turn this way.... a great shame. :bored:

[AirWasp]

It seems there are a lot of comments regarding the day-to-day issues of pay, HR and living conditions, however does anyone have any info on the longer term prospects ?

We all know about the near-miss a week or two ago when the aircraft lessors arrived in Lagos intent on siezing their aircraft because the Bank apparently 'forgot' to pay that months installment !! VK Management were able to bring themselves back from the abyss on that ocassion - but what about this month ?

Many thanks !

[seper]

Was it VK that recovered from the abyss,or U.B.A?

[DRPAM007]

Though it's an old story, but it's good to be proved wrong sometime. And VK proved me wrong! I did predict that unless there's a radical change in management strategy, the long haul operation will not survive past 31st December 2008. The HR lady was surprised when I told her that on my exit interview, but I did add that, the airline had all the potential for success any organisation could hope for except management strategy and group synergy.

Well, it did survive past that date, even if by only 27 days.

Now back to the future.............
From current evidence, it appears that VK is in a situation where:

"A B737 on take off roll on a wet runway, losses one engine after V1 and just before VR noticed the other engine fire....."

They're unsure whether to risk the overun by aborting well after V1 and degraded braking, or to rotate and hope the engine on fire survives a low level circuit in rain ( some even hope the rain will help put out the engine fire).
In either case, it is not going to be pleasant.

To make mattters worse, they're delaying taking "the vital decision! Meanwhile, the fire rages and what's left of the runway further diminishes!

I shall leave the riddle as it is and Consult my crystal Balls, even I will need more than one Ball!:eek:

[Klogic]

The coast now seems to be getting clear (hopefully) with the appointment of Capt Dapo Olumide as deputy CE0 as announced yesterday, while vk also announced that it will take delivery of 2 ejets in april to commence abuja-accra,kinshasa,and banjul,and increase more frequencies to other cities.

[DRPAM007]

I do hope that is a good thing, because I expected him to be made MD by the twilight of last year. Like all mortals, Olumide is no angel; but it's time we see a Nigerian (fully, half or even 1/16th caste) succeed in running a world class airline in Nigeria.
I fear that VK might be ruined beyond economical repairs, and then Handed over to Olumide, to be left holding the bag.

It still beats my imagination what on earth Conrad is still doing in VK. Why has he not been fired for gross incompetence or in my opinion economic sabotage and subterfuge of an iconic commercial venture?
There has been no logic in the madness that has pervaded the (management) decision making machinery in VK.

There is definitely the irony of tunnel vision at Play here; VK did try to motivate by offering good working conditions, but that only went as far as the Board, HR and senior management level (details of salaries and perks will require another volume).The top cats maybe motivated, but they have definitely failed to provide motivation and leadership to rest of the workforce.
A good salary to the pilot workforce is not enough to make a company an "employer of Choice."
Common sense dictates that in order to gain any sort of competitive advantage in airline business, All departments must understand the company mission and strategy ; and most importantly how their (departments) activities are required to actively enhance the "integrated-marketing approach" towards the achievement of the organisational goals.

Can VK clearly point out to a differentiating factor it has over the competition?

So far there no proof of management commitment to the company vision.

In a service industry, to get and stay ahead of the game, ALL activities must focus on either "the Customer", "the Product" or both!

After painting such a despondent scenario, I still think there’s still a silver lining behind these dark clouds.
But the clock is still ticking........!

[18left]

There's obviously some power tussle going on,unfortuantely its consuming the company up rather rapidly.

Its obvious some powers that be want Dapo as MD,for new ideas and push forward but some powers are also are fighting this hard!

Now if Dapo gets his way can he deliver?is there anything left to deliver?


What is clear the present management,or whats left of it needs a Dcheck,or better still replacement.

[jaalal]

Complete replacement is the best for them at this stage ,If vk goes for Dcheck,am afraid it wont last .

[skygod]

AS Our uncle oduks says, Its a Long race,and hes still in the Gym. Even Virgin Nigeria is out of the long haul market, and b3 is still operation to LHR. same environment, same equipment. Its a big shame. Dapo Has nothing but "Using Reserve Fuel" "hmm" I wonder how b3 He does it?

[NIJASEA]

Dapo might be a good manager but unless things change drastically he will be left as the man who sunk Virgin Nigeria and after such a colourful career he should really think well about what he is looking for. Conrad and his cronies are already planning the next big step onto another part of the planet to run down another hopeful startup.
Why didn't the core investors insist VA send a vice president ops from atlantic to initially start the ball rolling rather than send a junior (whatever) to gain experience by trial and error. The world aviation industry is in a decline at the moment when it recovers other airlines in Nigeria will be looking to replace their leaving expat crews, guess where they will find them if things don't move forward. As Skygod said B3 is still operating Y? Simple his admin dept is the smallest staffed dept in his company unlike VK (take a hint).
Lots of friends there.
Guys I hope for the best and believe it can survive. :ok:

[seper]

are these ejets deliveries continuing,or have they learnt grandstanding from Oduks?

[DRPAM007]

There is absolutely no doubt that Dapo can deliver. The question is

"will he be provided with the environment that will be conducive to success, or will he need to arrest the current decline and then create the neccessary environment that will give the ailing carrier the much needed shot in the arm ".


A synthesis willbe something in this vein:


i. .......Get the management out of the woods; may need to coalase the current size to a workable team backed by able line managers.


ii........... Review business model considering the current market condidtions.

iii............Bring out a robust a viable strategy.


iv........... Secure required funding.


I think the (iv) item may be the hardest to achieve considering the state of global finances and the current IATA's assertion that 2009 will present airlines with the most challenging revenue situation in the last 50 years.

If VK can beat Ariks target of direct flights across the Atlantic by July ( LOS-JFK), then there is a chance VK will not only survive but may even recapture the top dog position in Nigerian aviation.

(This remains in the realms of hypothesis..only time and Pprune will tell.):cool:

[woodcoc2000]

The Virgin nigeria website says there have been quite a few changes at management. just curious if any of those in the know think that these changes will lead to better things??

[Jettprop]

Yeah.....I am curious about that too...
Please share the news with us

Jet

[hotmj43]

The departure of JH, first DFO, from VK, and the subsequent replacement, with Block head TM, was all HR needed, as their call up.
They took full advantage of, TMs total incompetence,when he was finally kicked out, for breaking the Law, what was his replacement. An errand boy as he has been labelled in this forum,. Apparantly they had not learnt their lesson.
The sad thing in all this, errand boy was interviewed, with JH, and chosen over JH, as the new DFO, to sort out the flight operations mess of TM and HR wars.What you are getting, is the obvious consequence of that choice.
The question that should be asked,to my mind is that do the powers that be really, want to run a first class airline on the lines of what was taken off the drawing board, prior to June 28th June 2005.... ?
Hmmmm:ouch:

[hotmj43]

SkyGod you got that right, if my memory serves me correctly, Dapo way back in the day,threw his hat into the ring as a potential DFO, but was not deemed, the right chap at the time.
No doubt, it is anticipated that his merry go round, which got him into Vk,will prepare him for the task at hand.......... Sadly i think not, but his name will go down in history...... not for the reasons that he may think,but for what has already been stated !!!! hmmm

[GlobalFlyer]

What has happened to Virgin Nigeria's plan to add 2 ERJ-190s to their fleet during the month of April? We have heard nothing about this, nor their plans to add regional destinations.

Is their punctuality deteriorating or improving? I know their only delivered ERJ190 was in the UK recently for skin repairs following a bird strike.

[5N Pilot]

Hotmj,
THE BATTLE LINE HAS SINCE BEEN DRAWN. The earlier VK mgt realises that there is a swine flu at the leadership of flight ops that requires immediate containment and quarantine,the better for the business.

We are no longer party to a team of selfish leaders who are more interested in arranging themselves than serving the interest of the whole lot.

Where in the world will a fleet manager dump his company in its time of need with sensitive company info,starts working for a strong competitor,and returns to vk and accorded red carpet treatment?.An ordinary Captain or F0 is sanctioned for absenteeism but a fleet manager is rewarded for disloyalty.Well this is unacceptable.

And yes, JO,the hr lady, still sits in the office of the DFO and CP giving them errands to do.

To those that have chickened out because the CP threatened you with downsizing threats,I say shame on you.The battle is still on going with or without you.Rostering will be to your favour now! But Justice and fairness will soon prevail.

[fantastic]

I now got the bigger picture of the wholelot. I think the two "errand boys" DFO/CP in that vir nig lacks the knowledge/capacity and courage to run that place.They dont know there profile at all and also why they are there for .The era for trial and error is over. they should just resign honourably and take a bow, b4 those hot boys disgrace them out of the office. It is really a shame. Vir nig use to be everybodys dream airline, but not anymore. Its a sinking ship now. Anyway, my advise to those boys is to vote in some serious minded persons that have the pedigree and the interest of the airline at heart not there own selfish interest. Thats the way forward.
thanks

[Rani]

Ok this is clearly becoming an internal political discussion.

In the meantime some of us outsiders are still wondering where the heck are the ERJ-190s VK said would receive during April, along with the wonderful new regional routes VK management said would "prioritize as part of a change in its business model". :cool::cool::rolleyes:

Anyone?

[seper]

-Over 8 pilots upgraded to commanders in recent past and counting
-they convinced management to listen to pilot agitation for payrise and secured approval and backdated till march
-secured TRI status for some locals recently
-got vacation increased
-gave support to a pilot lad who had an accident since xmas
-

what a hopeless flt ops management!:ugh:

Cant think of any pilot who would not want a good looking lady around him,could that possibly be the soft spoken interview lady JO?

she can come to my place anytime,have you seen the $%$#@*&^ on that lady?

[5N Pilot]

Seper please go back and check your facts.

The pilots directly approached mgt,two meetings were held, and they made their demands without the input of the management pilots.

Infact the pilots have made another latest demand for a change of some management pilots because it is apparent they are not on the side of the pilots. Whatever they are doing now to make the demands met are fire brigade approaches mate.As of today, no definite policy on rotation, etc.

Upgrades are normal in any organisation especially when there are shortages of captains and people on the line are qualified.

About having a lady sitting in your office ,It seems you are an errand boy that can sell out your colleagues for any thing under the skirt mate.Too bad.

Happy landings!!

[Localiser Established]

I'll have to agree with seper on this one. I believe they are doing their best with the powers available to them. Plus, I don't see any better replacements within.

[oba_idan_amani]

Looks like the moderators deleted my post again. What I would like to know is why hotmj43 post has not deleted as well. My post makes direct reference to him, using his name, but he also used Dapo's name on this forum. Dapo as we all know is the Deputy MD at Virgin Nigeria, Hotmj43 was a CP at Virgin Nigeria but was fired for gross incompetence. Hotmj43 from what I understand is still very bitter for this reason which can be seen from his posting. It is open secret that Dapo (who is also a pilot Captain on the B737 in aero before he left) and Hotmj43 go a long way and both cant stand each other.

This is someone who is meant to be a captain and almost killed everyone on board. I understand that would have been the end of Virgin Nigeria in the early days. I understand he had pressuriztion problems but failed to decend nor use oxygen mask, even though pax at the rear of the cabin were on oxygen (I cant even begin to imagine this).

This is the same captain now flying Arik A340 after having failed the same course (A340) initially I heard at VK. Same guy who went to Oman air and had no clue what was going on in the airplane. The present CP I heard used to fly the A340 and was the first nigerian to be checked out on it. I also heard he has been in the industry for a while, flew in the UK as a captain, working for major airlines there. You on the other had even though flew in the uk, was never allowed to take command of anything. I heard you were almost fired in Oman Air for not having a clue what was going on in the flight deck.

Now back to you moderators, please try and be fair, if you are going to delete my post then do the same to him. If not leave all posts and let people know who hotmj43 really is and why he is posting all this on this forum. This particular post would probably save lives one day, so please dont delete this one also.


Oba Idan Amani

[hotmj43]

The E 190s due are probably on the slow boat from Brazil, they might have docked in Dakar, by now....... bearing in mind that their was a Pilot shoot out to get on the present course, that just got back from Crawley.Well arrival might have to do with Uba Bank......opening its vault.
Funny though, both errrand boys, as this forum chooses to call the ops mgt team are on the single aircraft E 190 fleet.......With the Brasilian Fleet manager just returned from, his travels with an NG recurrent from Wings of Nigeria, it is a complete DREAM TEAM.......what a great shame.
Well as for Judith, she is just stepping into the over sized shoes ,of departed Victor Ban..And being HR she is tripping big time....she has been their from the beginning, and knows everybody, as she has risen with all the departures
You harvest what you plant !!! Hardly Sun shine dates at the place.
Hmmmmmm:ouch:

[hotmj43]

Thanks Oba dan amani....... life goes on you forgot to mention that i recently won the Euro Lotto. the situation at hand you should delibrate on. Better luck next time.........Funny enough what occured to me,in the same B733, 5N VNB, happened to another VK Captain, he did exactly what i did, follow the check list.Nothing to hide mate.
Hmmm:ok:

[oba_idan_amani]

Really happy about you winning the Euro lotto, at least you wont be seen in an aircraft again on the left seat with pax at the back. On checklist issues, now I should not be the one giving you lectures even though am only new to the B737 (FO currently) but again goes to show everyone here what am talking about. If you are flying at FL350, you have pressurization problems, you put on your mask and establish comms, try and control the cabin, if you cant you decend. You then carry out the checklist. Its a recall item, not we followed checklist when the Cabin has climbed above 14,000ft and cabin altitude horn is ringing. whats your TUC at that altitude, why you didnt kill everyone is beyond believe.

I dont know / care about the situation in Virgin Nigeria, they can shut down for all I care. The company is messed up anyway and if they leave, good for Aero and the other local airlines. My concern is what is your business with that anyway if you are not bitter you were kicked out of there.

Your likes who abuse power when they have it and refuse to give the youngs ones a chance. Like LJT has said so many times, your time and your likes days are over. You demoted so many Captains to FO, you had a requirement of 3000 Jet hours to be an FO on the B737, you created an empire for yourself. Your FO's could not talk when they fly with you. You were the master, now let any FO's that flew with you when you were the CP at Virgin Nigeria come out and say otherwise. Note your mate, dont think you have any.


Oba Idan Amani

[hotmj43]

Oba idan amani, whooo you are a man with all the facts wrong, what i would strongly recommend, is that when you get the corrrect facts and figures, we can have an academic debate.As opposed to i gather i heard,or i was told.
This is a rumour net work,so i will take your rage in that light.
As for the education of a recall item thanks, I only hope that at some stage in your career, which you have mentioned is F/o stage, you are able to hold your own up, as well as the chap who was with me on that day, held his up...
or do you think i was flying solo, on that day, well given the insight, i have into you, you probably heard, or gathered i was flying solo
Take care and chin up......
P/s
If you choose for further conversation, i will only chat with you, with the auto Pilot on,and my Oxygen mask on, aar Speed brake out of course, in the descent
Hotmj43

[GlobalFlyer]

Well judging from the rumours and facts, it seems VK is better off shutting down and admitting the whole Virgin / FGN partnership to have gone sour, very sour a long time ago.

No punctuality, under-capitalized, stiff competition and no staff morale.... I wonder where things can improve given that clown Clifford is still sitting on his desk.

Sadly, VK's possible demise will not make much of a difference as Arik and other airlines can come in and fill the small gap it occupies now.

[NIJASEA]

O_I_A
I really feel you have a personal grudge with Hmj and dont think this is the right place for it :=.
VK has major problems and when the crew meet with upper mngt bypassing their immediate managers, that should tell them there is a problem with the chain of command. I personally have no beef with the mngt and think it is just lack of experience and the fact Hr took control of the Airline from the start. There is still a chance to save the company but based on my experience the person instigating the move to meet upper mngt has big plans (lets hope they are not selfish plans). Flying all over the world does not make you a good manager it only means you have experience and hopefully you can impart some of that experience giving the right opportunity in mngt. A ceo of a company needs to be an administrator not a technician and if the advise giving by his chosen advisers is faulty then his decisions will be wrong and it seems the VK ceo only listens to the people in the office with him not the respective aviation managers.
Guys only suggestion I can give is you have to back your managers 100%, coz if they go down you might be saddled with a DFO like the previous one ( Door closed policy).
As is said "only the man who is wearing the shoe knows were it pinches".
FLY SAFE :ok:

[seper]

QUOTE 5N-PILOT:Seper please go back and check your facts.

The pilots directly approached mgt,two meetings were held, do and they made their demands without the input of the management pilots.

5N-PILOT you obviously dont have your facts well!who set up this meetings? Do you for an inch think they listened to you without CP and DFO input? if you do you must be the most ignorant of VK inner workings

Infact the pilots have made another latest demand for a change of some management pilots because it is apparent they are not on the side of the pilots. Whatever they are doing now to make the demands met are fire brigade approaches mate.As of today, no definite policy on rotation, etc.

Your leave has been increased has it not?
Which pilots made a demand for change,the digruntled few or majority?
Are you pissed off by the non support of your colleagues?
CP is not capable of threats,he cant hurt a fly,he's a gentleman
After all at the virgin court meeting this was not the plan,why did you deviate to personal attacks

Upgrades are normal in any organisation especially when there are shortages of captains and people on the line are qualified.

I quite agree but mention one airline in Nigeria that has upgraded 10 f/o's in less than 8 months?



About having a lady sitting in your office ,It seems you are an errand boy that can sell out your colleagues for any thing under the skirt mate.Too bad.

am sure your colleagues will be willing to be sold for a higher salary and more vacation maybe you should concentrate on advising and helping the CP in constructive criticsm,than woeful attempts at turning flight ops into EKITI,afterall the management people who put him there are not complaining





Happy landings!!

[LongJohnThomas]

OIA,
It is quite unfortunate that when we all do not like what we read/hear, we get out our GUNS and get ready for battle!!!
Thank you so much for helping buttress one of my major points about the Old-Gen Pilots; but i must say that when i made those statements, they were not personal.
I find it a bit difficult to believe that you have gone all this way on a public forum to discredit a colleague, be it true or false and regardless of past and present sins.
We are all human, thus, subject to err at some stages of our lives.
The thing is whether we learn from our mistakes, pick ourselves up and move on.
I could go on forever here about everything and everyone, self included, but it think our audience would find it quite as distasteful as what you have put down for the consumption of others.
Based on what i know of you, i bet if we dig into you? We WILL find skeletons for sure, other than those we know already!! There was a time you looked up to HMJ, thats now taken an unfortunate turn.
It is my take that you tender an apology to HMJ and let this story die here.
We cannot all at the slightest provocation, go all out to malign others because we are displeased with their utterances, its called growing up!!
Yes, we are entitled to our opinions, then again; airing them can be quite damaging!!! And you must remember that opinions are like A$$holes, everybody has one!!
I am sorry, but on this occasion, i must hold my support for you and ask that you do what's right!!
The Vk issue is one that will play itself out for good or bad. We as by-standers just have to sit and watch it unfold. Its not personal!!!
These are the things that separate us, our ability to self destruct!!! I don't see the oyinbo boys washing their linen here??!!!
Get it straight mate, you're wrong on this one!!!
Cheers.:ok:

Seper,
FYI i disagree that your CP cant hurt a fly!!! Tell him i said so!!!!

[Shinobi]

It is rather unfortunate that hotmj43 was critisized on an earlier post.He was only relaying some facts about how V/K got into this situation. Unfortunately, after the company started, it was voiced out that the it didnt seem like structures were being put in place for a long term venture.At that time, it was out of place to mention such.

The things you would expect an Airline to pursue for a long term plan were not being done. An example is building , or acquiring a Hangar for the maintenance base. Most things were being outsourced i.e. being contracted to other companies at exhorbitant costs. It was much later that it started to occur to people that these stop gap measures, which were supposed to be temporary were becoming permanent, and seemed to be facilitating the "fast track ambitions" of some individuals, at the expense of the company, and the loyal staff. It seemed like these people did not care whether the company collapsed or not, provided they achieved their goals. They were getting into outrageous deals , at the expense of the company.

Did anybody wonder how/why the initial D/FO left a Company he had just helped to build, without waiting to see positive the results of his work? Did anybody wonder how/why the initial CEO left a Company he had just launched, barely a while ago? The truth is that there were some forces at work which were not visible to everybody.


Regarding the issue of Captains that applied for a job, were assessed and then taken as first officers,the initial C/P was being criticised. The truth is that the assessment and recommendation was conducted by GECAT. I am not using this opportunity to vouch for, or vilify the process. All I can say is that "the powers that be" , were manifesting at an early stage . A lot of rumours and heresay have been going around, and I believe the earlier post was one of the victims.

Contrary to what was mentioned on the post, the C/P was never part of the A-340 course at Virgin Nigeria.The Pilots selected for the A-340 course eventually began their course. Allmost all the Pilots selected for the Captains position were sidetracked into the F/O's position. Some of these Pilot's had even flown Airplanes big as, or bigger than the A-340 with thousands of hours. What is the big deal about flying an A-340. The A-340 was being turned into the "next generation space shuttle" . Information available indicated that this process was heavily steered by some individuals that are from a company, which is one of the share holders.

The initial C/P was the only remaining shield that acted as a barrier between the SHARKS, and the future of Virgin Nigeria with its staff, who had a lot at stake, having put their future in the hands of the Company, out of trust. That is why he was unpopular with these powerbrokers.He was not fired from the Company. He did follow a very noble cause.

It seems like, some of us from the outside, have a good view of events that have transpired, since the inception of V/K. Have you forgotten the changes in the Nigerian Aviation environment that took place, with the emergence of V/K. Without V/K, things would return to "Status Quo".The truth is that Nigeria needs V/K as well as the other Airlines.

Good luck Virgin Nigeria

[GlobalFlyer]

News from Thisday just in, Clifford and a 5 other executive managers (from Virgin Atlantic) have submitted their resignation. Olumide will take over as CEO from early June.

I think it's about time the current management admits failure. It's time to avoid blaming the government, Virgin Atlantic, or whatever easy target. It's time to try turning this airline around, and yes, I believe keeping the Virgin brand is essential, but they must clean up their image and PR, as these have gone very bad lately.

Good luck for Olumide.

[BALEWA]

Hmmmmm now Olumide is new CEO, same Olumide from Aero (ACN).....Well all the same Goodluck Virgin .

[flying paddy]

Virgin Nigeria Crisis Deepens as 6 Executives Quit

•Olumide named new MD
05.25.2009


THISDAY Investigation


Ever since Virgin Nigeria Airways (VNA) announced the suspension of its long-haul flights from Lagos to London and Lagos to Johannesburg, its fortunes have gone from bad to worse.
The once proud airline, credited with upping the ante and setting new standards for domestic air travel in the country, is about to lose six members of its senior management staff comprising executive directors and other senior executives.
Some of them were seconded to the Nigerian airline by Virgin Atlantic Limited (VAL) under a Technical Services Agreement (TSA).
The top executives who have resigned their appointments with effect from this month are the Managing Director/CEO, Conrad Clifford; Chief Operating Officer, Kevin Dudley; Director of Safety, Alistair Henry; Director of Ground Operations, Yves Gilbert; Director of Maint-enance, Jim Barnes; and Mr Ronnie Classen who also was contracted to the airline in an executive capacity.
Yesterday, the airline announced that the Deputy Managing Director, Captain Dapo Olumide, will become the new Chief Executive Officer on June 18, 2009.
The mass resignation of the senior executives along with other management staff of VNA is linked to among other factors the harsh global operating environment that has dogged the aviation sector, the inability by the airline to raise badly needed working capital to revamp and expand its operations, and shareholder issues that hindered the sale of 42 per cent of VAL’s shares to United Bank for Africa (UBA) Plc and Afrinvest Limited, a Lagos-based investment firm, in September last year.
Since the airline was fully constituted in March 2005, it has had a co-branding and distribution/point of sale relationship with UBA, in addition to domiciling its operating accounts and salary accounts with the bank.
The relationship shortly afterwards evolved when it became clear that VNA would have to secure a bridge facility from banks, because its initial working capital from shareholders’ funds had been eroded by the TSA and lease agreement it had with VAL.
Even though VAL invested almost $25 million in VNA in lieu of its 49 per cent stake in 2005, it immediately took back most of the money through exorbitant management and leasing fees, thus leaving the Nigerian company with insufficient working capital.
On this basis, VNA requested UBA for a bridge facility of $20 million to cover working capital financing and aircraft guarantees. The facility was subsequently restructured to a $40 million loan for a 24-month period.
One of the main conditions for the approval of these facilities by UBA was the irrevocable domiciliation of all sales proceeds generated locally with UBA and the execution of a right of set-off on the company’s accounts with the bank.
In early 2007, discussions began between VNA and UBA involving the re-financing of the company through a zero coupon bond issue of $100 million for working capital and to pay off outstanding debts to VAL.
By this time, VNA owed VAL royalties amounting to $11 million for the use of the Virgin brand under a Trade Mark Licence Agreement.
The facility given the company by UBA was then withdrawn and replaced with a global facility in February 2007 which covered an overdraft facility of $26.5 million, a bond and guarantee facility of $13.5 million, and bridge facilities of $5 million (available in Lagos) and $20 million (available in New York).
All these were granted by UBA to enhance its cash flow and augment working capital requirements. There was also a bank guarantee facility of $10 million for the Umrah and Hajj operations.
By late 2007, VNA’s board then determined that its exposure to UBA was too high and advised the management to look for cheaper ways of refinancing the airline.
The decision coincided with VAL’s decision to sell down its equity in the Nigerian company from 49 per cent to 7 per cent.
VAL, like all airlines around the world, was contending with the harsh operating climate and was under pressure from its equity partner, Singapore Airlines, to divest from other loss making ventures.
On the advice of Afrinvest still in 2007, VNA decided to undertake a private placement, followed by an initial public offer at a future date.
The airline was convinced that through this arrangement it could raise $300 million, which would enable VNA settle its loans and still have working capital to pay at least for two of the brand new Embraer aircraft it had ordered from Brazil.
In the interim, attempts to sell VAL’s shares through a private placement were proving unsuccessful.
Initially, VAL tried to sell the 42 per cent of the shares in VNA for $85 million to UBA without the knowledge of the board of the Nigerian airline.
The sum was later negotiated downwards to $55 million despite the objections and court injunctions by the company’s shareholders, who were by this time aware of the deal.
When that failed, the shareholders later consented to the sale on the condition that First Bank of Nigeria (FBN) Plc partners UBA in the transaction.
FBN, however, got frustrated with delays and pulled out, leaving UBA as the sole interested party for VAL shares by April 2008. UBA then offered VAL $24 million for its shares and $11 million to pay for the outstanding royalties for the use of the Virgin brand, totalling $35 million.
As all this was going on, VNA was haemorrhaging badly, compelling its management to seek the assistance of Afrinvest to acquire the shares and re-inject the proceeds of $35 million from the sale into the VNA, pending the time the private placement and IPO takes place.
But UBA went to court to stop the deal with Afrinvest, and insisted that it must be part of the transaction.
In order to save the airline, UBA and Afrinvest agreed to partner on the deal by acquiring the 42 per cent VAL was offering for $35 million.
Both firms (UBA and Afrinvest) were meant to hold 50 per cent each of the shares that were to be sold by VAL, and warehouse same as underwriters to the transaction until such a time they could be offloaded through a private placement and IPO.
But the timing for the transaction couldn’t have been worse. UBA and Afrinvest had consented to pay for the shares on September 30 2008, but failed to pay the amount owing to the global credit crunch.
In frustration, VNA went back to UBA for another facility that was needed to pay for the first Embraer aircraft which was ready for delivery.
Given the stricken situation in which it found itself, VNA’s board had to sign away a full asset debenture of all its assets as part of the conditions under which its facilities would be rolled over by UBA and fresh funds amounting to $35 million be made available for the Embraer aircraft.
Today, VNA is indebted to UBA to the tune of $203.5 million, was compelled to lay off several workers late last year, suspended its long-haul flights in January, has seen its aircraft fleet reduced from 10 to five, and is in danger of losing the Virgin brand.
On top of all these, it is still grappling with how to recapitalise its operations.
Sources on VNA’s board who have been privy to the airline’s attempts to get out of the woods, said the situation got to a head, forcing Clifford and other expatriate executives to resign after failing for almost three years to turn the airline around and make it competitive.
A non-executive director of VNA, who confirmed Clifford’s resignation, feigned ignorance of the resignation of other key staff with the airline, maintaining that they are contract staff whose contracts may not have been renewed on expiration.
He defended UBA’s role in the entire Virgin saga, and explained that had UBA not insisted on the full asset debenture, it would have been in violation of CBN credit guidelines.
“UBA played a significant role in funding the company, without which it may not be alive today. Its demands were not out of the ordinary as any other bank would have done likewise under the same circumstances,” the source said.
The director was confident that VNA can still be turned around, and that plans were underway to conclude the deal on the sale of VAL’s share which would then be sold through a combination of a private placement and IPO.
“The environment today is different from what it was a year ago. We are confident that the company can still be recapitalised to enable it pay its obligations to UBA and expand the business,” he said.
On whether VAL will withdraw the Virgin brand, the director said VNA’s directors had advised the British airline not to withdraw the brand as this could devalue VNA and dampen investor interest in its shares.
VAL, he said, had accepted the advice in good faith.
“As long as there is an acceptable plan for payment of the backlog of royalties due VAL for the use of its brand and safety standards are adhered to, VAL has no intention of pulling its brand,” he said.
Announcing Olumide as the new CEO in a press statement yesterday, VNL Chairman, Mr. Felix Ohiwerei, said the appointment had been approved by the board.
Olumide, who joined the airline late last year as Deputy Managing Director, had the oversight responsibilities for Commercial Planning, Sales and Marketing, Cargo, and Corporate Aviation and he brought with him 25 years of aviation experience as well as a brief period in banking.
The new CEO is an aviation professional who earned a Bachelor of Science degree from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida, USA in 1980 after which he joined Aero Contractors in 1982.
Following many successful years, he was appointed the Deputy Managing Director in 2002 at which point he transformed the original company vision from an exclusively B2B model to the more demanding and more modern B2C approach.
Prior to joining Virgin Nigeria, Olumide had a brief stint as a banker with the Africa Finance Corporation (AFC), specifically in the area of Transport Infrastructure project development.
Making the announcement in Lagos, the outgoing Managing Director, Clifford, said: “I am thrilled that Capt Olumide is taking over from me. We have worked together in these past months and I am certain of his capabilities. He worked with me firstly as the Chief Commercial Officer and as Deputy Managing Director.”
Clifford also said: “Virgin Nigeria Airways will indeed be repositioned as he comes in as Chief Executive with years of experience in airline administration especially now that the business has been restructured to focus on its profitable domestic and regional service”.
Reacting to the appointment, Olumide said: “I am coming on board at a period when the global airline industry is going through challenges but with the rest of the hard working team, I am sure we will further position the airline and make it safe and profitable.
“We will keep premium to safety and passengers’ comfort at all times and our passengers should look forward to an airline that adds value. This is our promise”.

[5N Pilot]

:DThe hitherto Scattered CB clouds of change are finally overcast.Three more to go, and the clean up exercise will be complete.:ok:

[LongJohnThomas]

And the cookie came crumbling!!!!!!I wont say i said so some months back!!!! Hahahahaha.
Hopefully, our brother olumide will be able to make the required changes to see the airline to it's next level.
I see them passing the buck now that the ship has sunk though.
This shall be an uphill task for the man.
Good luck to you all though.:ok:

[Rani]

Coming to think about it, and as an outsider and former VK enthusiast, Conrad Clifford was a total failure. He was out of the loop from "internal processes" and I doubt his heart was in the project. More like VS's eyes/fingers in management. If only he put 1/2 the committment McTighe puts into Arik Air, we would have a functional and perhaps profitable operation by now...

Don't get me wrong I never met Clifford but had the pleasure of meeting the Arik MD. That guy wakes up at 0300 every day to check on the LHR ARRIVAL and can be seen on the ramp regularly sorting out problems. If that's not committment I don't know what is?

[TonyWilliams]

Sadly, VK's possible demise will not make much of a difference as Arik and other airlines can come in and fill the small gap it occupies now.


W3 is starting LOS to Johannesburg on June 1, 2009. The gaps are getting filled.

I don't know of anybody who has recently left W3 for VK, but there has been the other way.

[atedo]

Sadly if this trouble swallows VK, it is aviation in Nigeria that will suffer; we will go back to those dark days. VK have been a yardstick for airlines even the CAA.

VK drove this industry to the significant development it has achieved in the last four years!:ugh:

Sincerely

[flying paddy]

IMHO

It looks to me as if the Rats are desserting a sinking ship.

FP

[InSoMnIaC]

flying paddy,

either that or..... this was the plan from when Dapo stepped n.

the position of Deputy MD was created for him. it didn't exist before so It could be true that the presence of the previous management was what held back any potential investor.

I guess the next few weeks/months will be interesting to see. either Virgin crashes and burns (as a company i mean) or some serious money will be invested to save it.

[aamandani]

hey guys im a tanzanian flying a caravan in arusha with company tht i strtd out in november and things r nt gng well here as here well..i hve close to 400 hoursTT and just a lil over a 100 on the caravan..just want to know if virgin nigeria is stil hiring low timers n need some advice from some fellow aviatiors..help willb much appreciated..happy landings..

[alpha-b]

People are looking to go to TZ and get jobs u,u're thinking to go out to get urs.I'm sure with the new ATC coming u may get a chance too,but hey follow opportunities wherever they're.As for VK u're in the right forum to find out if they're hiring low-timers or not.Good luck mate

[9jarep]

Sadly Half the Haters here either could not get a job with VK or were Fired by VK:ugh: ....The way the company operated gave some Industry watchers concern but can we name one Airline in Nigeria that is not in a crisis or one waiting to Happen ,Nigerian Pilots are the only Pilots i have come across that don't care if ground staff are underpaid or don't get salaries at all :\ VK and Aero changed that ,Over the Years we have seen that Pilot Management in Nigeria Airlines rarely work life expectancy of a Pilot managed Airline is Six years of Mismanagement the Only problem VK has today is someone is telling them to Account what about the other Big boy on the block.....OIA what ever you heard about HMJ s 30% true i think he is a nice person from whatever perspective he was just too strict for some Lazy Pilots:E

[Golf_Seirra]

Did VK take on any South African SACAA guys last year or were all the guys taken for P2 or P1 positions, FAA or JAR...?

I am still waiting for an explanation from them about an employment offer that was withrawn early last year.....apperantly due to there been no NCAA approved training facility in SA.....

Did they guys ever get out of the hotels and into better accomodation ?

[flying paddy]

I hear from reliable scourses that the pay for some pilots is late again this month. It must be great fun there at the moment.

FP

:{

[NDB17]

FP,

It's no longer a joke, it's getting very annoying. It's amazing how gung ho they are if you have any 'issues' but to pay on time is a challenge.

[flyingvikings]

Please mate, can you tell if the Canadian License and South African license has different priority in terms of getting job in Nigeria. Is any of the license rated higher or tend to get job faster. Please advise

[InSoMnIaC]

flyingvikings. Any ICAO licence is acceptable to the Nigerian CAA.

you will find however that the Validation of Any licence in Nigeria is very frustrating. patience is the key.

As for the airlines.. I don't think It makes too much difference which licence u possess.

[flyingvikings]

INSOMNIAC-

In this case it is best I go to South Africa for the training hence it is $8,000 cheaper than Canada. I actually was scared of little opportunities with the SA license. Thanks for the answer mate.we are destined to fly

[Crepello]

Quick snippet from the OyibosOnline newswire this morning:

Nigerian transport minister Babatunde Omotoba is to visit Virgin Atlantic in London to discuss the UK carrier’s decision not to extend Virgin Nigeria’s access to the Virgin brand.

Flashback: Last year Virgin Atlantic, which owns 49% of Virgin Nigeria, outlined plans to sell its stake in the Nigerian carrier. See Chief’s Briefs 18.08.08. In a further development, earlier this month, Virgin Atlantic was not extending Virgin Nigeria’s brand rights. See Chief’s Briefs 08.06.09

Omotoba attended the Paris Air Show on Tuesday to formalise Nigerian regional carrier Afrijet’s order for four ATR 72-500s. After the signing ceremony he said: “We are going from here to London to speak with Virgin Atlantic.” He added: “We want to find a soft landing for Virgin Nigeria. We have given them so much. The government is intervening to make sure the two companies come together to solve their differences.”

Virgin Nigeria is planning to rebrand by 7 July. New names under consideration include Nigerian Eagle and Air Nigeria.

[flyingvikings]

Does any one know the average salary scale of FO's in Nigeria? Pleae advise. Local wings and International route

[Rani]

is VK's future now REALLY in doubt?

1- No sign of the new ERJs
2- Aviation Ministry/FGN directing threats at VS and their ops in the event their divestment from VK is not "amicable".
3- 737 fleet down to 4 operational aircraft.

I wonder is VK even worth it? It is a private concern after all, so why not just let market forces have their way?

If govt was sincere about saving it, why not bail out some of its debts?

[Tiburon peligroso]

Rani
You have a point, but it's like walking on egg shells with these people.

BTW, if it's the same whitehaven beach I know, would love to be there now!