Where do you look?

[framer]

This question is for jet pilots.
In the last 200ft before touch down how often do you glance inside to check the airspeed?
I ask because a checkie said to me the other day that it should all be outside for the last couple of hundred and thats not what I do. I tend to glance back in once every couple of seconds all the way down to about .....at a guess, eighty feet. I've never had any problems with landing or speed control, it was a comment that made me think though ,and I wonder what everyone else does.
Your thoughts please.....

[Bullethead]

I'm with you, the focus shifts from predominantly inside to predominantly outside as you get closer to the ground. As to my 'last look' height, somewhere just as the threshold goes under the nose. Another thing I include in the 'last look' is the thrust setting, decaying airspeed due insufficient thrust is the last thing you need as you approach the flare in a swept wing jet.

Regards,
BH.

[Crusty Ol Cap'n]

Keep your instrument scan going and treat the window (outside view) as an extra instrument to be scanned. Served me very well for more than 40 years!
:8

[TheGorrilla]

From 200' down to 100' it's 70% in 30% out. The from 100' down 50' about 50% in 50% out. Then 50' to touchdown 100% out. When looking in I'm scanning RoD, ASI, G/S and N1 (in that order roughly). When looking out I'm scanning centerline tracking, runway aspect and papis.

I tend to think of the landing flare as a set piece of movements based on known datums. 50' look at far end... 30' close thust levers and begin flare, 20' rudder to remove drift, 10' end flare pause and wait for touchdown. Roughly! Works not too bad on A320.

[411A]

Keep your instrument scan going and treat the window (outside view) as an extra instrument to be scanned. Served me very well for more than 40 years!


Likewise...works for me as well.

[framer]

Thanks guys,
It sounds like I could glance inside even more and still be conforming to the norm.!
I'l just put that checkies advice in the 'not for me' basket. Ta

[amber 1]

a checkie said to me the other day that it should all be outside for the last couple of hundred and thats not what I do.

Just because he's a checkie doesn't mean he's necessarily any good as an aviator.
Have come across one or two over the years who knew all the manuals and SOPs and such like but were pretty crap at handling an aeroplane. The trouble is they thought they were good and pontificated accordingly. God's gift to aviation, I don't think.:rolleyes:

Treating the window as an extra instument in the scan sounds like good advice.

[privateer01]

As a long habit or perhaps extreme paranoia....I look at the gear indicator at about the 200ft height too......

[Denti]

I got all kinds of statements from trainers and checkies, ranging from "whenever visual you stay purely outside" to "fly the damn flight director until it disappears" (which is at 50ft).

All in all i do it roughly as TheGorilla stated above, its a gradual shift from totally inside to totally outside.

[framer]

"whenever visual you stay purely outside
I have had that too although it was right at the start of my initial 737 training. I think that this has lead me to feel like I am 'inside' too much below 1000ft, this thread seems to indicate that I am not and could even afford to come inside a bit more. I too check 3 greens and also flap and speed brake somewhere between 500ft and 200ft, makes me feel good :) Cheers.

[SNS3Guppy]

Depends on the conditions. In clear conditions or good visibility, I'm nearly all outside. If visibility is low, I'm in and our, with brief checks of the airspeed.

Let's face it, if you're on speed, configured, and stable passing through 200', an you're on the glideslope, then the only reference you really need inside is a quick confirmation that the airplane is where you want it to be. If you can see outside, the airplane is going to be continuing down to the touchdown zone all by itself, and you can concentrate on the landing by looking outside.

[BelArgUSA]

Gentlemen -
xxx
We are discussing here personal techniques and approved procedures.
Two different entities which are combined for safe operations.
Fact is, by reading you all, you seem to fly "single pilot" environment.
Shall I remind you about the PF and the PNF duties.
Do you forget about "who does what" and "monitors the other"...?
xxx
As mentioned by our friend Guppy - we fly airplanes that are quite stable.
Stable by their mass, flight controls and thrust well trimmed.
My old 747s were, by their mass, the epitome of stability.
At 100'-200' DH, on proper speed, power and G/S, you can go "visual".
If the plane diverts from path, the PNF, as per SOPs, will advise the PF.
xxx
Assuming I am PF, I am inside the cockpit for the ILS approach.
Then, standard call from PNF "approaching minimums" 100' ABV/DH, PF starts looking.
When the PNF calls "minimums" - PF announce "landing" and proceeds 100% visual.
Based on last "speed trend" observed, slightly increase/decrease power
xxx
I only flew Cat.I and Cat.II in line operations
We discontinued Cat.IIIA in 1997, only flew these in simulators.
In Cat.IIIA, went visual at 50' above TDZ, "ABC" autopilots engaged for flare/touchdown.
xxx
:8
Happy contrails from a "checkie" in rocking chair...

[TheGorrilla]

Fact is, by reading you all, you seem to fly "single pilot" environment.
Shall I remind you about the PF and the PNF duties

Errrr... NO!

Regardless of how many pilots/crew you have on an aeroplane there is no shift in the PF responsibility of instrument or visual scan! What we're discussing here is the last 200' of a manual landing. I think you may be talking about further back up the approach BelArgUSA, about SOPs relating to monitored approaches.

The gist of the thread as I understand it is all about visual reference for the landing maneouver.

[bossan]

FRAMER;

Pilots are human beings too.

Below 200' they quietly close their eyes and soil themselves...:eek:

Like I do.......