Practice ditching in the simulator

[dogcharlietree]

Do any airlines actually practice ditching in the simulator? :confused:
I know that there are procedures laid down in the manuals, but do airlines actually practice it? I'm curious re the airlines, as I know some military operations DO practice it.

Sorry. I meant to mention that I'm interested in the configuration, handling and control of the aircraft at low speeds and low rates of descent, not normally experienced. A good way to simulate it is to presume an artifical sea level of, say 1,000ft. That way the sim does not crash on splashdown :ok:

[AltFlaps]

You could practice the procedures, checklists ..etc.. but the excercise (in most airliiner sims at least) would end at about 10 feet from the surface.

These sims are just not up to that level of simulation ...

[BEagle]

When teaching ditching in the VC10 sims, I used to hit the big red 'motion stop' button on touchdown - it really did feel as though the aircraft was sinking and surprised the crew no end!

[Reimers]

I've had the Hudson ditching scenario thrown at me as a way of passing the last 15 minutes of SIM time twice since it took place in the real world.
It is quite good practice IMHO to actually see what can and needs to be done in such a short time, and how fast the ground comes at you.
The SIM (FSC in AMS) will, however, no longer give any realistic simulation once you've hit the water. I suspect the deceleration was way too small, the water remained a hard surface and we even 'sideslipped' for a long way before coming to rest.
Surely the NTSB will analyse exactly what went right during the actual flight and enabled such a good outcome. They will propably find small things that could be done differently, and might publish suggestions to enable training departments to enhance the training.
However, since so many accidents still occur for other reasons, I believe the focus will remain on those scenarios.

[dogcharlietree]

Perhaps if I explain a little better.
Many years ago on P3's the procedure for ditching was;
1. Gear UP
2. Flaps - LAND
3. At an altitude of approx 300ft, maintain a steady rate of descent of 100fpm at an airspeed of Vs + 10kts
Again, if in the simulator you brief that 1000ft will be the assumed sea level then nothing should stop at simulated impact.
If you have spare time when next in the sim, I suggest you try it.
The 100fpm ROD is hard and check the attitude at Vs +10.
It is all to do with attitude at touch (splash) down and your much lower contact speed with the water.

[JW411]

As someone who has been around simulators continuously since 1962, I seriously doubt that you could get a realistic result without spending a HUGE amount of money. There are just too many variables and no one really knows the answers.

I might have mentioned it before on pprune, but the two colleagues that I have met during my flying career who have successfully ditched 4-engined aeroplanes and who have survived "both did it wrong".

In other words, they went in the water with the gear and the flaps down (due to lack of notice).

As it happened, no one got hurt!

[BelArgUSA]

With PanAm, we were presented ditching procedures, a movie etc. presenting a discussion about ditching in the middle of the ocean, what to do, who to call with 707 or later 747 airplanes, but nothing was worth to be performed in a simulator... call Coast Guard or Oceanic on HF, call the cabin staff, prepare passengers for ditching, rate of descent, call "1 minute" before ditching at 500' above surface, and cockpit crew duties after ditching in cabin...
xxx
Really nothing for the simulator. All this is better presented in a 2 hrs classroom review, manuals in hand, and review of overwater flotation equipment available on board, who gets the 121.5-243 emergency beacon, and bla bla bla. Question next time will be a crash landind inthe Sahara desert... well, ok, landing gear up... nothing for simulator again.
xxx
Everytime there is an accident, there are immediately questions "can we do this in the simulator" after the accident. How about training for the type of accident before the event, in a simulator... Next accident (God forbid) will be crash landing in the Amazon selva... How do we do in simulator for touch down on top of the trees... jaguars, crocodiles and piranhas in the rivers... again, nothing for simulator.
xxx
Let us do our normal training, engine failures on takeoff, engine fires or engine out landings, missed approach, ADF approach in severe crosswind... hydraulic failures. all generator failures, emergency descents... Enough to practice. Captain incapacitation because his gonads are burned by hot coffee in overfilled cup... Nice to know how to ditch...
Now, besides that, can you do a proper holding pattern entry and timing...?
xxx
:D
Happy contrails

[Pugilistic Animus]

And they want the BelArgUSA's of this world replaced with an MPL program:*

Great points BelArgUSA!!!
I've just learned a great deal, it's hard to get out of the beauracracy of Today training enviroment and place one's mind back into training PRACTICAL Apsects of aviation --without people like you still around to teach I would fear greatly for aviation's future I'm glad you continue to teach and consult:ok:

PA

Just one little point ---I've always felt that a seaplane rating would be one of the best weapons--in facing this scenario---all pilot's learn to glide their plane:)

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Señor PA -
xxx
I bet you learned proper ditching techniques early in your training...
Like within your first 5 hours of dual training, way before your first solo...
Did you not practice POWER OFF approaches with your FI in the C-152...?
Downwind at 800' AGL, power off, turn base, control airspeed...?
Then turn finals, at 500', maybe some flaps, still power off.
Control speed, and rate of descent... Short finals...?
xxx
All that sounds like training for ditching... NO...?
After only 3 or 4 hours of dual training. You must be pulling my leg.
Only people like Sully and 20,000+ hrs are capable of the above maneuver.
xxx
PA, at times, I want to cry...
:{
Happy contrails - can you swim, at least...?

[Pugilistic Animus]

!Si, Buen Capitan! :)

PA