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Best Western
8th Nov 2001, 14:10
VEX operated the LHR - BRU service on behalf of SN using SN slots at LHR. Now that SN have ceased existing, and have transferred all slots to DAT, do VEX still have the right to operate BRU - LHR? I think not.

From todays times.

A SMALLER and leaner Sabena is to emerge from the bankruptcy of Belgium’s 78-year-old flag carrier, thanks to a consortium of 15 investors, led by prominent Belgian banks.
As a Brussels commercial court yesterday pronounced the state-controlled airline’s failure and headquarters staff were ordered to leave, the last flight, SN60, arrived back from Cotonou in West Africa. Sabena has failed to find a rescuer, leaving 12,000 staff without employment and huge embarrassment to Belgium.

As Sabena pilots and cabin crew wept and staged protests at Zaventem International airport, other European airlines were rushing to carve up Sabena’s market and shares in BA, KLM and Lufthansa leapt amid hope that the carriers will gain from Sabena’s loss.

Lufthansa said that it had increased flights between Germany and Belgium, and Air France said that it hoped that Sabena passengers heading for long-haul destinations would go via Paris. A spokesman for Air France said that it flew to the same African destinations as Sabena.

The new Belgian airline is to be formed out of Sabena’s surviving subsidiary, Delta Air Transport (DAT), but will operate only a fraction of Sabena’s routes. Prior to the bankruptcy order, Sabena transferred its 1,000 take-off and landing slots to DAT, thus securing the airline’s most valuble asset.

The Belgian Government has cajoled a dozen investors, including the banks Fortis, Dexia, KBC and Bank Brussels Lambert, part of ING, to subscribe to a €200 million (£137 million) investment in DAT. Three regional investment corporations will contribute €45 million to DAT’s launch capital.

Sabena’s creditors are likely to sue Swissair, the defunct airline’s 49 per cent shareholder, which had promised in January to contribute €125 million to a bailout. In October Swissair suffered a cashflow problem and was forced to seek protection from creditors. A resurrection of the Swiss airline is being mounted using private sector and government funds.

The Guvnor
8th Nov 2001, 16:01
Interesting concept, this transfer of slots - especially here in Europe. I suspect that Sabena's transfer of them to DAT is illegal on a couple of counts: (1) they don't belong to the company, but rather to the airport/government concerned; and (2) if they do belong to the company then they are an asset which should be sold off to the highest bidder for the benefit of Sabena's many creditors.

I hear that both EZY and FR have already commenced action against the 'new' Sabena - claiming (with some merit) that it's really state funded and therefore illegal. Apparently, the banks concerned have been given 100% government guarantees for their loans. If correct, it tends to show that the new business plan is not exactly commercially viable!

s.lindburgh
8th Nov 2001, 16:31
Interesting concept indeed regarding the slot issue and one that will become more and more of a hot potatoe over the coming weeks I believe, nevertheless it would appear that the Sabena/DAT tranfer may not be as clear cut as most reports are indicting...........

from AFX news

Belgium plans to launch airline from scratch - govt source

The Belgian government is in intensive talks to launch a new airline from scratch after the collapse of Sabena Belgian World Airlines, a government source said.

Speaking ahead before a press conference by prime minister Guy Verhofstadt this afternoon, the source said the airline would not be founded around Sabena's existing regional airline subsidiary DAT, but would be a totally fresh start.

The new airline would have a new name and new shareholders, he said.

© AFX News

Story filed: 13:34 Wednesday 7th November 2001

Anybody heard anything else on this. This really would throw the slot issue into the limelight.

dayoff
9th Nov 2001, 04:22
Actually, the LHR slots are owned by the airline, not the government (established in Court proceedings between Air UK and The States of Guernsey Government, when AUK sold it's slots on pulling out of LHR), and so are an assett of Sabena to sell!! ;)

sabenapilot
9th Nov 2001, 18:00
SN passed all of its slots to its subsidiary DAT by selling them to this latter company. This way SN got some cash which could be used to keep the airline flying for about 1 more second I guess, but technnically speaking everythins was ok, because a company under chapter 11 is stimulated to sell assets.
The transaction was done with the explicit agreement of the 2 court commissioners at SN.
Good luck to those trying to block the transaction I'd say.
BTW, DAT has another point in case they might run into problems after all. As a newcomer to the Brussels airport, they have priority to any other airline currently operating in Brussels to take open slots on new destinations. Apart from Ryanair all airlines now stepping to the court have thus a lower proirity. Also, ryanair's request will in a Belgian court certainly be turned down, because they are not an involved party, as they do not want to fly out of Brussels.
these ruels are made to protect new companies like ryanair from established big carriers like Sabena, but now that we talk about DAT iso SN the tide has turned. ryanair now is the old strong airline and DAT is the new, small startup which must be protected.

FL310
9th Nov 2001, 19:02
Are you sure the slots have been sold to DAT....or is there someone else involved....
transfer of a lot of things are happening at these moments and there may be a lot of surprises reveiled soon.... :D :eek: :D

Silkman
9th Nov 2001, 19:44
Not sure that the slots have been sold as both bmi and Virgin Express have put in slots for MAN-BRU from next week, 3 X daily each.

G-INGER Roger
14th Nov 2001, 23:11
Interestingly from the VEX website and the departure info at Brussels airport, it appears that VEX and DAT/Sabena are no longer codesharing, with DAT keeping the original slots and VEX having to fit in where there is room and cut the number of flights.

I guess this answers the original question, but I can't imaging VEX are happy. Is this really happening? Are there now 4 carriers flying LHR-BRU?! Are there this many passengers?

G-Inger

thewwIIace
15th Nov 2001, 03:27
not sure why DAT dont share on routes, must be draining them. I hear VEX has in the 80% region full on LHR yet DAT are struggling with 3-5 pax on a good day. worked from loss to profit on routes for SN to code share, why would DAT want to shoot themselves in the head so early on in the game - just showing face one thinks, not commercialy sound but one does a belgian think commercially!

FL310
15th Nov 2001, 03:49
First DAT needed to sort out the IATA issues, done as far as I heard today. Now the next steps are coming.
Wait and see..VEX is desperate to grab what was ledt over, if they are not careful enough, their days may be counted as well...
DAT is patching together a network, the results will be seen in the schedule to be issued in the coming days. There will be interesting connections and adequate services. (I hear already the chains rattling...) DAT needs to stand on it's own feet (again), give them a chance to get up from the sofa... :)

VBO
15th Nov 2001, 03:55
Got this one from the horses mouth: the DAT slots are secured with approval of the slot commission and the European commission. DAT and VEX are code-sharing asof today.

Young Paul
15th Nov 2001, 14:52
How many passengers go to Brussels? Well, quite a few sometimes. More significantly, the yield is high - since it is the HQ of so many of the international political/military/business organisations.

Also, more significantly, I understand that MEP's are paid a flat allowance of around £500 if they have to fly. Regardless of the amount they pay for the ticket! So there will always be good business for low cost operators, as the eurocrats milk the gravy train.

I wonder who pays these allowances?

springbok449
16th Nov 2001, 02:43
Quite an interesting topic, can't imagine that the VEX crowd are best pleased, apart from the LHR slots I wonder what will happen to the BCN and FCO slots that VEX operated?