Mr Boeing your seat is appauling !

[fourgolds]

Well its been posted before about this issue. After a little more than a year and a half on the 777. I presented myself to the Doctor at the EK clinic with lower back pain. The first thing the Doc asked me is " what fleet are you on Airbus or boeing ?"
when I told him I was on the 777 , he said they were aware of it and have many from the same fleet with a similar complaint !!!

So there must be something in it. You really screwed up on the 777 ( yes Airbus has a better seat) , please redeem yourselves on the 787 for the next generation of pilots.

Conider how long we have to sit in these torture devices and design a little farther than just economics.

[12 twists per inch]

You wanna try the ones in the back :{

[inducedrag]

Even Airbus cockpit seats are bad

[DBate]

With the amount of time our profession generally spends sitting in the cockpit seats, I doubt there are any seats from any manufacturer which will avoid back pains.

The pain will come sooner or later if you don't exercise and train your muscles beforehand. No matter if you are flying Boeing, Airbus, any other airplane, or just your desk.

Just my two cents...

[fireflybob]

Mr Boeing your seat is appauling !

And so is your spelling! Sorry could not resist that one! Yes agree some flight decks seats not so good for one's back. Regular exercise is also a good way of preventing backache in my personal experience.

[K.Whyjelly]

Did an unscientific, random poll (i.e I quizzed the other two pilots I was having a beer with) and all three of us all suffer varying degrees of lower back pain..........all thanks to Le Seat de A330 courtesy of Airbus (well their supplier technically)

[mr. small fry]

Their spelling is pretty good though!

[john_tullamarine]

A significant design problem is to address the dynamic impact maximum load requirements. End result is that seat upholstery is comparatively hard ... long gone are the days of armchair crew seats .... Same comments apply to passenger seats.

[parabellum]

The doc told me that my bad back was primarily due to me spending my working life sitting on my arse and the muscles that surround the lower back did not get sufficient use and got lazy/weak.

Are the flight deck seats just one standard throughout or is it, once again, a question of you get what you pay for?

[RAT 5]

I have a 14 year old Opel car. 220.000kms. Great seats. Much better back rest than my B738 or past B767. Firmer seat cushion and better wrap around shoulder support. Have driven 13 hour days; no pain. I worked for one airline where the MD had come from the furniture trade. Odd but true. He told me all about the different types of foam. He said the B767 seats had grade 1 or 2 foam. One should be changed every 4-6 months the other a little longer. I was working 16 hour days and the foam cushion had collapsed to give no support. I bought a booster cushion to lift my pelvis and so give a good spine position. Meanwhile I asked the boss to change the seats. Sadly we were the daughter of a bigger company and the high level boss said no. They were not yet worn out. It was knackering longhaul. My boss said put it in the tech-log. It took time but it worked. Strangely my present company has the same problem with collapsed seat cushions, lousy backrests and overall worn out seats. Yet the sim seats are wonderful and they are used more hours per day than the a/c. Guess they are the expensive seats. How much more can the good seats cost in a 58mU$ machine.
It is still the case that the average car has better seats. A taxi driver, bus or lorry driver just would not accept this. The manufacturers spend massive amount of time and publicity telling us they consult pilots about cockpit layouts and systems; so why not the seats as well. Trouble is they feel great on day 1, but not after 4 months.

[TheGorrilla]

Lady Whiteadder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0546816/): Chairs! You have chairs in your House?
Blackadder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000100/): Yes, well...
[she slaps him twice]
Lady Whiteadder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0546816/): Wicked Child! Chairs are the work of Belezabub! At our house Nathaneal sits on a spike!
Blackadder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000100/): And yourself?
Lady Whiteadder (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0546816/): I sit on Nathaneal! Two spikes would be an extravagance.


So there, gentlemen, is the answer.

[Capt Claret]

I'm told by folk that have had the pleasure that the seats in the DC9 were ok.

I can tell you the seats in a B717 (DC9 on steroids) are shocking, appalling even.

I can drive 3000 km in two days in my Nissan Patrol and not come close to the discomfort that a 2 hour sector in the 717 causes.

[ray cosmic]

I don't understand if Nasa can equip their seats with Tempur Pedic material, why we shouldn't? Impact requirements should be similar?I understand you can buy portable cushions from said brand. Maybe an idea?

[DBate]

It is still the case that the average car has better seats.

and

I can drive 3000 km in two days in my Nissan Patrol and not come close to the discomfort that a 2 hour sector in the 717 causes.

While sure most car seats are more comfortable thant the ones on the flightdeck of a 'modern-day' airliner, I suppose the certification requirements of the latter ones are by far more restrictive.

I know, I said that before, and yes, the seats are a pain, but like in every profession where you spend most of your time seated: Backpains will occur sooner or later - if you don't excercise regularly. No matter how good the seat is!

The human body is simply not designed to spend excessive times seated on it's butt. It needs a lot of excersise - especially nowadays - to counteract the negative side effects of our everyday lifes where we simply move and excersise too little. Evolution simly takes its time :}.

Besides that, using the footrests on the flightdeck (which most of us do, I suppose) is plain poison for the intervertebral discs. The position of the pelvis while using the footrests changes in a unfavourable way and increases the pressure on the intervertebral discs thus increasing the risk of a herniated disc or a preliminary stage therof causing the lower back pain.

Regards,
DBate
(Working out regularly to avoid all those problems :ok:)

[fourgolds]

Sorrie aboutt the speleeng boyz and goils. Interesting feedback , but must say 8 years on the bus A330 and A340 and not an ounce of pain.
But man the Boeing is a different story.
.

[FullWings]

I agree completely about the pilot seats on the 777. If they were fitted in prison cells they would be described as "cruel and unusual".

There are always mutterings about certification requirements - do the specifications include minimum discomfort levels? Does anyone have any links/quotes to back this up?

As someone who's flown the 777 for over a decade, I've evolved a coping strategy. I'm a natural fidget, so don't sit in one position for long but I make sure that I get out of the seat regularly and do some exercises. I also adjust the height/rake every now and then so as to not be sitting the same way all the time; a few cushions/pillows and a blanket make the park bench experience more bearable.

I contrast that with my glider, in which I can sit for 10hrs+ in perfect comfort with only 20mm of crash (high-hysteresis) foam between me and a carbon-fibre seat pan. It's not rocket science, why can't Boeing do something?

[Mr.Buzzy]

5000 hours in the Boeing and no complaints here.
The remark about lazy lower back muscles was spot on.

my 2c anyways..........

[Wader2]

First, as a pax on a 767 I had a pain in my coyx for 3 days after one flight.

With many bum hours on a Hawker Siddley seat, it had a flat profile and was made of reconstitued foam scraps, I had severe lower back pain.

Then on a 30-odd year old seat, made by Mr A V Roe, I had no problems. The seat shell was rigid but the padding was leather strips over a dunlopillo padding. It was not thick but gave excellent support with minimum thickness and it was not hot.

Too many modern seat makers equate comfort with thickness of the padding whereas better materials is the key.

[rubik101]

Having flown Boeings, 707 and 737s for 30 years now, with over 26000 hours logged, I have to tell you that I have never had a backache in my life. I do not use the footrests and recline the back just one click.
I have the lumbar support at the lowest it will go and the back support wound fully forward. I do not excersise to any great extent, other then taking a few good walks on my days off.

It has to be 'onesize fits all' so we have to live with the compromise they have provided us with.

Sorry to disprove the 'fact' that the Boeing seats are appalling.

[BelArgUSA]

fourgolds -
xxx
I know the feeling - and about your back pain...
At 65, I retired recently, and happy to be away from these seats.
However -
xxx
I have flown "older airplanes" much in my career.
You fly rather new airplanes, probably all same seats as selected by airline.
I flew with old planes, same type, but different seats.
Second hand airplanes, sometimes had great seats. Some newer planes horrible.
Some with sheepskins, some with nice padding, some with power adjustment.
And some with "made by Ikea" comfort of a public park bench.
xxx
Your airline selects what seat THEY want. Not Mr. Boeing.
Boeing has $99.98 seats, and $25,000 models, Louis XVI upholstery.
It is the airline's option. Certainly same with Airbus.
xxx
In long-haul most of my career, took a 5-minutes break every hour.
Move my legs, get my cute little rear cheeks a massage by F/A...
Wish we had hired more little Thai ladies to walk on my back during layovers.
xxx
Bring the issue to the chief medical officer of the company.
Get your doctor to get you a certificate often to get "days off" for back pain.
Maybe they will get the picture, eventually.
Ask company to supply padded back support. Appears best solution.
Recall some pilots having pillows or inflatable cushions.
I wore a big belt as lumbar support quite often last few years. Try that.
xxx
Good luck -
:ok:
Happy contrails

P.S. -
Just thought of something... my doctor asked me about my bag carrying habits.
I said I often carry ONE flight bag (heavy). And suitcase on wheels.
He said "bad idea" - Told me to put all on wheels.
Your body (spine) suffers to be "pulled down" on side, unequal weight.
At worst, carry "equal weight" on both sides, if you got muscles.

[parabellum]

Had the same advice from my AME about the wheels. In my younger days used to think it looked 'soft', changed my mind quite quickly once I had them though. Carrying just an average weight Nav bag, over a period of time, will do damage to the spine, put everything on wheels, the doctor said.