Do birds fly in clouds ?

[rmac]

US Air birdstrike incident got me thinking about whether birds fly in clouds and if they do what do they use as attitude reference.

Does anyone know ?

[L'aviateur]

Only if they have IMC rating or an IR.

Sorry... Couldn't resist

[tmmorris]

I was always taught, basically no. They are day VFR only.

Tim

[SNS3Guppy]

I've had two significant bird strikes at night, each at 10,000', both about 0100 in the morning. One in a Cessna 182, and the other in a Learjet 35A. The Cessna was messy, but undamaged (it was a big bird), and the Learjet's radome was shattered and the copilot side windshield damaged.

Birds are found in instrument conditions. I've found them there. I have no idea how they maintain their attitude or their direction, but I've seen birds, usually larger ones, in IMC on occasion.

[bonniejack]

Owls are night rated and equipped (and oh so silent) In fact night aerobatic. One passed me walking dogs half an hour ago at head height pulled up and virtually stall turned onto a branch. Very skilful!

[mad_jock]

Acording to our Birdy there are a couple of types of goose that do, and for that matter IMC as well at anywhere between 1000ft and 15000ft.

But only when migrating they have one thing in common they are all bigger than the caa Seagull.

If you goggle about it there are quite a few articles on the subject

[henry crun]

The bar tailed godwit migrates to/from Alaska/New Zealand.

One female bird been tracked flying the southbound leg non-stop in 8 days, a distance of 7270 miles !

She maintained speeds of between 30mph and 44mph, at altitudes of up to 6,500 ft., so had plenty of night flying experience at the end of that trip.
I wonder what the chances are of completing the trip in the northern hemisphere autumn/southern spring without going IMC at some point.

[LH2]

Some more commentary in this thread (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/350475-birds-clouds.html) over at Tech Log

[vanHorck]

my girlfriend does not have an IMC

[tom_ace]

Do they comply with the quadrantal rule? Thanks, I'm here all week.

[AC-DC]

You will find the big birds at high alt's (can be > FL300) and at night as well.
Smaller birds fly at night but most will not fly very high.

[effortless]

I have seen pigeons dropping out of the clag.

[Pace]

I was always taught, basically no. They are day VFR only.

Tim

Birds most certainly do fly at night one of my heaviest bird strikes was in the pitch black. A heavy bang on the screen which after landing was covered in blood and mess.

I have also had an Eagle fill the screen over the Alps at 14000 feet. It was a fantastic sight to see that bird of prey drop a wing and avoid my aircraft at such close proximity.

Also had another large bird miss the prop and hit the tail on my second solo many moons ago in a C152 the sound was horrendous and scared the Sh~t out of me :)

In cloud ? Not yet

Pace

[IO540]

I've seen huge vultures over Spain at c. 9000ft.

You will find the big birds at high alt's (can be > FL300) and at night as well.

They are not as attractive as they used to be, though Virgin are still doing all they can to keep up the reputation. I do agree some of the low cost airline ones are pretty big...

[scooter boy]

My two bird strikes were day VFR. Both in a helicopter at around 1000ft within 10 miles of the coast.

I have never seen a bird (or much else) in IMC or at night.
I do hear migrating birds flying over my place in Cornwall at dawn and dusk.

IO540 - Sir Richard B's airline seems to be the only one valuing aesthetics these days :D.

Perhaps we could have som input from the cabin crew forum here?
Which airline has the hottest (female) cabin crew?

SB

[LH2]

I've seen huge vultures over Spain at c. 9000ft.

So have I, in huge swarms. They mostly congregate around the real estate market.

[Helol]

Birds do fly at night, and are able to fly in cloud, although probably not for long periods of time.

Large species of vultures (Gyps) can be seen at altitudes of around 10-15000ft.

Ruppels Vulture Gyps rueppellii holds the record for high flying - more than 37000ft. (Bird Migration By Thomas Alerstam, David A. Christie, Astrid Ulfstrand - Cambridge University Press)

This vulture is generally seen in the regions of central Africa.

Species of ducks, geese and swan and waders are examples of long distance migratory birds.

[vee-tail-1]

Migrating geese fly at upper flight levels, and I remember seeing a pic of a goose strike on the wing of DC 10. There was a report in New Scientist which suggested this to be normal goose procedure to take advantage of jet streams. It was also suggested that the birds would be in a "low metabolic state" which presumably means they would not be keeping a good lookout :eek:

[IO540]

They mostly congregate around the real estate market.

Not any more surely, since the bottom fell out of the UK one :)

[BoeingMEL]

Back in 2000 (IIRC have to check my log-books) I hit a biggie at 1200' in dense clag whilst on R/W 15 ILS. Not sure what type but it could have been a large gull ... certainly plenty of sh*t and white feathers... and a nice dent on the port-wing leading-edge of the KingAir too! Miss those days. bm

[AC-DC]

Ruppels Vulture Gyps rueppellii holds the record for high flying - more than 37000ft. (Bird Migration By Thomas Alerstam, David A. Christie, Astrid Ulfstrand - Cambridge University Press)


IO540
Shame on you to assume that I spread rumors. :p

[Love_joy]

Interesting. How do they manage in icing conditions?

[Pace]

Interesting. How do they manage in icing conditions?

I do believe they have found the bodies of crashed birds which have experienced severe icing in thunderstorms and have literally dropped out of the sky!

For normal icing conditions they use their feathers like boots on aircraft expanding and contracting the feathers to remove high levels of ice build ups.
Too severe and the ice build up on their backs and exposed surfaces becomes too much and they crash.

It really depends like aircraft on the specific bird type on how prone to icing they are.

Swans are notoriously bad as are ducks. Water based birds which have large swimming legs and webbed feet designed for water propulsion ice up badly.

Water landings in such a situation have caused many problems with the birds unable to extend their legs for landing with fatal consequences.

Pace

[Diatryma]

Suprised by the lack of gory pictures on this thread!

[effortless]

Oh all right then: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/IAF_UH-60_after_birds_strike_outside.jpg

[matt_hooks]

Scooter Boy wrote

I have never seen a bird (or much else) in IMC or at night.

Damn these birds. When will they stop flouting the rules and carry proper lighting?