Tattoos and the Airlines.....

[rockrats]

Hi everyone,

I'm just about to start my training, but I have a question;

What is the airlines views on tattoos? Would it hinder me getting a job,especially now as i'm nearly 32 and only now starting training....:eek:

I have a small letter E behind my ear, a my kids names on my forearms, and the rest are hidden!!! The visible ones really are quite tasteful, not exactly full sleeves...!!

Many thanks, as you can understand is it worth me spending out on my training if there is no way i'll get a jod because of my ink?!!

Cheers guys,

rockrats. :ok:

[Reluctant737]

Good morning rockrats!

First of all, I should warn you, there will undoubtedly be a few replies to this thread telling you anything from you haven't got a hope in hell, to chaps merely stating their distaste at your personal preferences. All are opinions, and all are equally valid.

That out the way, this is a very mixed argument - to cut straight to the chase, I am a first officer with a particular low cost Irish airline based out of Stansted, and half my back sports a very trendy looking Chinese dragon. Whether I regret that (which I don't) or whether it will look as 'trendy' when I'm stood in the shower aged 80 (which it probably won't) is not the issue here. Tattoos in themselves do not hinder you whatsoever in achieving a Class 1 medical, and so they shouldn't. The reason I mention this, is that some airlines perform their own medicals on you as their medical requirements are slightly more stringent or particular than the JAA Class 1. Whether the tattoo is on your back, the sole of your foot (ouch!) or your forehead, they may or may not accept you on this basis alone, I couldn't possibly comment. A prime example is British Airways who perform their own medicals on air crew.

However, my tattoo is obviously not visible when wearing a suit (as I did for my interview at East Midlands) or when in uniform, and it wasn't a problem because my airline don't conduct their own medical - so long as you hold the Class 1, that's not a problem.

Of course had I shown up to the interview and they saw the edge of a tattoo, for the sake of argument, on my wrist, they may have brought it up, or they may have said nothing and sent me the polite 'no thank you' letter a few days later, I honestly don't know.

As a summary, my opinion is this may prevent you from flying for CERTAIN airlines, but there are many (if not the majority) that don't have their own internal medicals (discounting random drugs testing), and so long as you are a professional individual, and when you turn up to that interview, or are at work, that tattoo is hidden from sight, I shouldn't think there would be a problem. Also remember that we mustn't consider only the itty gritty legal stipulations here, but professionalism, and I always wear a plain white T-shirt underneath my work shirt to make absolutely sure it is invisible to the eye.

The tattoo behind your ear, whatever sentimental value it may have for you, I would consider having that removed by laser surgery, as I have never seen nor know of an airline pilot with a tattoo anywhere on their neck or head.

Regarding the ones on your forearms - if I were in your position and made it to an airline, I would have all long sleeve shirts - that way, you can keep them down when you're interacting or within sight of passengers/airport staff etc, then simply roll them up if you wish on the flight deck. I have flown with a couple of captains in the past who have done this, no problem.

You seem like a decent chap, the best of luck to you :ok:

Ad.

p.s. in case you haven't heard, the economy's bad at the minute. Try to spread out your training over a couple of years or so at least if you can!

[Blighty Pilot]

We have a tattooed person working for us. I have heard it being spoken about in the crew rooms but I think the individual is aware of this and always wears long sleeved shirts (don't know if it is his choice or the companies insistance :ooh:)!

[Reluctant737]

We have a tattooed person working for us.

Ooooh gotta watch out for those tattooed folk! :p

[rockrats]

Many thanks Reluctant737. I also have a large back piece, I am currently a High Speed Train driver, and also wear the white tshirt under my uniform..!

My company are also quite strict regarding tattoos, but nowhere near as the airlines.

I feel tattoos willalways be a love/hate affair, and people should never judge someones ability of suceeding.......but, rules are rules.

I appreciate your opinion on my ear tattoo, and laser removal is something i have been looking into already.....ouch!! ;)

[Chesty Morgan]

They can be quite handy as they can be used to identify you should the worst happen:eek:

At least that's what my AME told me when he asked if I had any.

[Reluctant737]

l@ser removal is something i have been looking into already.....ouch!!I've heard it's about ten times worse than having it done :E Ah well, there's a price for everything I guess!

"What did your training cost you?" "Umm, well £35k, and it wasn't half a pain in the neck!" Sorry, I'll grab my things...

[student88]

I know a Captain with full sleeves, a covered back and front. Don't worry about it!

[Bombs Away]

What about long hair :confused:

[johnnyDB]

tread already exists somewhere. however, i do also know of one pilot with a tattoo on his upper arm.

[londonmet]

The visible ones really are quite tasteful, not exactly full sleeves...!!

How? Tattoos aren't tasteful. They're disgraceful. Well not generally but airline pilots are professional and smart. Tattoos aren't.

What about long hair

See above.

L Met

[future.boeing.cpt]

I don't see the problem with a tattoo that is not visible in a working uniform. One with bodily tattoos or even sleeves could maintain a professional appearance whilst wearing a longsleeved uniform.

Tattoo's aren't all distasteful londonmet, some can have a very emotional message to the bearer.

Rockrats, I'm afraid if your ink looks anything like this, you have no hope..

http://www.wickedlocal.com/salem/archive/x288020331/g258258a12bea42cb1272fbb6d0f07ee1f637f9fdebf4b8.jpg

[rockrats]

:rolleyes:

Londonmet I feel your comment was a little uncalled for? As future.boeing.cpt quite rightly said they can - and mine do - have a very emtional meaning. I agree that some are a little OTT like the full face one for example, but to say ALL tattoos are disgraceful is a little unfair?

What gives you the right to judge somebody because they have a tattoo?

The thread is asking for advice as to weather the airlines take HIDDEN ink into consideration, not for your opinion on the rights and wrongs of tattooing. This is not a tattoo forum.

You never know, one day our paths may cross and we may work together. I am not the sort of person to ram my ink in peoples faces, but should our paths cross, i would expect you to treat me as you would any other pilot? Like a professional, not some walking freak show in a pilots uniform.

Anyway - How does having a tattoo make me a lesser pilot?

Sadly, and i was warned, this thread has attracted some mixed views, and i apologise for any one if i have offended them - londonmet in particular. It is a pity that some people aren't as open minded as the majority and realise that some of the nicest people in the world have some ink somewhere that you may not know about because you cant see it. That doesn't make them a disgrace. londonmet is making me out to be some big hairy @ss'd hells angel type fella with 'love' and 'hate' on my knuckles!!!!!!! ;):D:D:D:D;)

Anyway, thanks thus far for your views, keep em coning!!

The "disgraceful" tattoo'd guy. Lol!!....;)

[future.boeing.cpt]

Pedalz' idea of sending anonymous emails to a few possible future employers seems like a decent thing to do.

Agreeing again with rockrats, how does the addition of a tattoo to somebody's arm defect the way in which they fly? If you didn't know, then what difference does it make?
I think also, at the age of 31, rockrats doesn't seem to be the type of guy who will hastily go out and get inked up all over just for the sake of it. As he states, his tattoos mean a lot to him, and I see, in no way, how a hidden and personal memorandum of his family/children is 'disgraceful'. Maybe ten years ago, but society has advanced slightly since then. Many highly, highly successful people, in a variety of excelling 'professional' jobs will in no doubt have the same type of thing.

No need for the personal attack.

[MikeAlphaBravo]

londonmet, :ugh: the only thing that is disgraceful is your attitude....I have tattoos as do many of my colleagues, including the FCTM. Ink never stopped anyone driving a plane. Get a life...
With regards the "hair" comment, I presume you dont have any?:D

[londonmet]

Chaps,

By no means a personal attack. Just an observation. The majority of people in the UK don't have a tattoo. People don't have a tattoo for the reason they don't like them. Ergo the majority of people don't like tattoos. Why? Well there are obviously quite a few reasons why.
Tattoos in the any form aren't really "smart" are they? I couldn't give a toss if it has an emotional meaning? The fact is if a passenger (whom didn't like) tattoos saw it they wouldn't give a toss either.
Just look at all the tattooed vest wearing yobs abroad. They're very smart aren't they?

L Met

[future.boeing.cpt]

The majority of policemen I know have tattoo's. They aren't frowned upon and they also hold a very high status amongst civilians.

Don't be so old fashioned. Tattoos are acceptable in many professional careers, and if it's hidden, then how is a passenger going to see anyway? Nobody needs to know. As rockrats said, he doesn't go shoving his arm in front of every second person saying "look at this", it's personal, no need for a show to anyone, no passengers would ever know.

However, if rockrats happened to be a 'tattoo wearing yob', then maybe that would be the case for calling his tattoos disgraceful. However, they appear not to be.

[londonmet]

They aren't frowned upon and they also hold a very high status amongst civilians.

Yes and no. LOL. A whole different discussion point I feel.

Yes, if they're hidden then what's the problem. I'm talking about ones people can see. That's completely different. Bit like earings on gents too.

[TugaFly]

Hello guys,

I am cabin crew, and I´ve seen loads of CPT and FO with tattoos, but they are not visible in uniform!

About ur ear tattoo u can use a DERMABLEND its make up to hide tattoos, thats what my collegues use.

[Reluctant737]

TugaFly, I bet you have!

And londonmet - I fear I may fall into one of your deluded catagories :( In the Summer I happily stroll around in a tank top which does allow Joe Public a fantastic view of parts of the enormous dragon on my back! I wear a baseball cap also and torn jeans... I guess you would refer to me as a tattooed yobbo!

And then the next day I hop in a 737 again with some other chap :ok:

[rockrats]

Alas, I too am one of the vest wearers in the summer. I am proud of my ink, so why not show it off? I too have to keep my back piece covered up all day everyday in work so why not show it off....? :cool:

I once read a letter in a tattoo magazine from a Doctor who had full sleeves; although he saves lives for a living in the theatre, he is still discriminated because he has tattoos.

I feel kind of.....bizarre? I feel I have opened up a can of worms that is walking a fine line of getting personal, but I never had any intention of starting a slanging match over tattoos?!! I was just asking for some friendly advice from the peolple in the know, doing the job I dream of doing.

I guess at the end of the day, being realistic, I may have a tougher time compared to somebody who is...'ink free' shall we say?

I feel I will be whizzing to London and back in my Intercity 125 for a few years more LOL!!!!! :p

Many, many thanks for those who are sticking up for me, and indeed the tattoo community. :ok:

[rockrats]

Alas, i too am a vest wearer during the summer time. I am proud of my ink, especialy my back piece so why not flaunt it. Its not as if i go around scaring iold people and have a spiders web tattooed on my face, or swear words inked on my forehead?!!!

I feel at the end if the day i may have a tougher time getting a job than somebody who is....'ink free' shall we say?!

I guess i may be whizzing around the country in my Intercity 125 for a few more years yet LOL!!!;):p

Many thanks for everyone who has stuck up for me, and indeed the tattoo community. :ok:

[shaun ryder]

Get the E for ear or whatever it means removed, or forget it. I know if I was pax and saw the flight deck sporting any facial/ neck tattoos, I would be questioning their judgement. Needless to say, it seems unlikely that any airline would employ you with that on your head. Not saying there is anything wrong with a tattoo, but on the facial/ neck/ ear area, you have to wonder why?

As for ripped jeans and tight tank tops, tattooed yobbo? I would be thinking something quite different to that.

[rockrats]

"E for Ear".....that is hilarious, not thought of that one :D
I know what you mean about the ripped jeans or whatever; could come across as a chav or whatever they are called?!


This is getting bitchy.............????? Trust me, not what I intended. :sad:

[Reluctant737]

I would be thinking something quite different to that.Love? ;)

Time for bed now - my four days off have come to an end... goodnight sweetcheeks :zzz:

edit @ rockrats - I think the term he may be referring to is 'puff'!

[rockrats]

Reluctant737 that is funny... :ok: puff pilot

I mean i haven't even started my training and i'm already the butt of some peoples jokes?!!!!

Crazy fools.....;)

[Reluctant737]

It definitely goes in your favour if you have thick skin in this industry - aviation sometimes seems to be one big pisstake, but I guess that's where the fun lies. Helps keep us witty for the ladies aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

One humble chav pilot is now signing off for the night!

[rockrats]

Cheers for now 737, safe flight tomorow, and see you for round 2!!!:ok:

[suraci]

Never mind the tattoos, are you sure you can handle the salary drop from High Speed Train driver to pilot?

[rockrats]

I know.... that is something i have been, and continue to think about...:bored:

Being realistic it would be a hell of a drop, but i would try to convince myself that it is an investment?! lol...:confused:

[leeds 65]

londonmet i agree with you

Tattoos are generally for pikeys,chavs,chimbos,gooks and crooks

i find it so funny to see the stereotypical chav on a beach in playa de .burnt red with bottle of san miguel or german pills,bald,fat(but thinks he is a bodybuilder),earings and piercings(also his girlfriend wears those hoopy ones!!) and those bloody bulldog designs on the arm.:ugh::ugh::{:{

to be honest i just laugh at them(and there thinking = 'who da hell is he laffin aaat')

bottomline = chavs or alternatively pikeys,knackers and tinkers

also they look stupid when your an old prune of 70.we are not sexy for life unfortunately.

beckham loves them.pro soccer players = pikeys.look at the difference between soccer and golf for example ;)

[rockrats]

I agree, chav's are fools. they think they are something so special...
They bring the country into disrepute, and listen to all that 'hip hop' and 'rap'....thats rap with a capital C....!!!

I ride a 996cc sports bike, and i'm sick of these chavs on there scooters in just a hooded top and tracksuit bottoms.... they then have the nerve to laugh at me for wearing full race leathers in the middle of summer?!!!

I'm big into 80's and 90's classic rock, and tattoo's are widely known in that scene... Although one of my idols - Bruce Dickenson - i'm sure you are aware he is a 757 pilot, but also Iron Maidens lead singer, hasn't got any if i'm right.

Some of the respondants to this thread sport tattoos, and /or know Captains/FO's with them...some with full sleeves!! Would you be calling them pikeys? ;)

Anyway, as i said a few posts ago....this is getting to be a "what i think about tattoos" thread, not what the original question was?
Instead, apart from the odd few people, i am getting a negative opinion about pilots...? I absolutely dream of doing your job, i considered you all to be very open minded about everything, with a balanced opinion. I am not sure of your personal interests, but i am damn sure i wouldn't slag you off because of it? generalising yourself and tarnishing everyone who has the same interest with the same brush.....??? i hate soccer, i hate golf. iam sure there is at least one pro golfer with a tattoo???????!!!!!

Im thought a few of you would be a little more open minded, and not so up yourselves?

Rant over, i hope you see my point.:ugh:

[theballetbrusque]

Evidently, several posters to this thread are stuck in some peculiar timewarp where it's only criminals and sailors that have tattoos.

As for the insinuation about homosexuality, perhaps you can jump into your cosy seats and fly all the way back to 1950, and do a little gay-bashing before you go home drunk and beat your wives.

Frankly, your views are appalling.

You are perfectly entitled to your grotesque opinions, but I am no moral relativist, and so will tell you what I think of you, that is, reactionary neanderthals.

[leeds 65]

After re reading my post i agree its a little harsh - but an awful lot of it is true!

I just dont like them

There will be a headset around your ears anyway so it wont be noticed on your ear.

And no not EVERY person is chavy who has one but someone who has loads is chavy,ie David Becks,boy band dudes etc. You know the type!they cant spell CAT basically.

Generally i dont think the airlines care too much.if you meet the required standard then your in.Its not as if your whole body will be in view,you will be in uniform,unless of course the capt needs to take a piss and the hot babe is left with yours truly momentarily up the front ;)

[Ten West]

In case any of our foreign readers wonder what a Chav is:

ChavTowns (http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/)

Search for your town's Pikiness index! :ok:

[MikeAlphaBravo]

Rockrats, that wouldnt be a nice shiny Italian 996 that your riding would it?:cool:

[rockrats]

;) it sure is!!.... A nice red one at that!! :cool:

You ride too, yes?

[MikeAlphaBravo]

1098S but mines black:\
Might have a tattoo of her on my back LOL:ok:

[rockrats]

oh my god i want a 1098S?

Not too jealous...lol ;)

Pity its not possible to tattoo the sound of a pair of Termi's?!! :cool:

[rog747]

go and fly for monarch?!
all the chavs go on hols wiv them so having tattoos wont be an issue.;)

ooh i wanted to be a train driver before i got into planes in the 1960's,

im soooo jealous you are an HST FGW driver,
do you drive the night riviera too? class 57 ?
(dont any of you dare call me a geek)
i live at paddington too, can have a cab ride please ?:O ta ever so,
(i'm serious)
or are those banned now too like letting boys n girls into the cockpit now incase they blow you up?:ugh:

do you realise what you are getting into wanting to be a pilot nowadays!
i think you are mad!!
stay as a train driver (much better pay too and much more green, planes wont be fashionable anymore soon anyhow lol)

btw pikey seamen in the old days after the war in the merchant navy went on to be the first airline stewards for BOAC and BEA and loads of em had anchor tattoos or 'i love elsie' tattoo'd on their arms,
for the older ones amongst us the services and especially the navy had lots of chaps wiv em...

i was in marks and spencers buying some grub the other day and the chap on the till had a tattoo on his head
hmmm i wasnt impressed sorry....
i mean marks and spencers, how very dare you,

[rockrats]

I work out of Bristol Temple Meads. Used to be at Paddington though a few years back, so yes, passed on 57's and the Night Riviera.

Cab rides are pretty much a no-go now sadly, similar to flight deck visits...
I'm unsure about the simulator though? may be able to get in there and play for a couple of hours.....i'll ask the question!! I've looked at doing an hour in the sim at Heathrow, about £600!! Gotta be worth it for me though.

It is a pretty cool, 'different' job,very similar to your own in many ways just on a smaller scale. We have a BA 747 ex flight engineer with us, i love talking to him, however he kind of agrees with you about me being mad? lol!!

Hey, we should do a job swap for the day.......? ;) :ok:

[rog747]

hi there
im retired now rockrats,

its no fun any more sorry,

just like now trainspotters are treated like terrorists then the airline industry has also issues like that v crews/staff etc...

i do miss the aircraft and the crews a wee bit, maybe the passengers too
a little (depending where u flew to and who for, then the pax could be charming or vile)
i worked mainly for holiday charter airlines so it was lotsa camardarie and lotsa fun...

i cannot bear the security problems/abuse/aggression/pc'ness that crews and staff have to endure and lack of freedom that the aviation industry once was,
cant do this and cant do that has ruined it for me.
cant even take a bloody yoghurt to work is madness....

they heydays for me were in the mid1960's-80's of jet flying and props
all this has now sadly gone.
(yes i like steam engines too btw so yes i am nostalgic but we had standards then LOL)
so you can see why i have gone....

i had fun, lotsa fun....

rog

[African Drunk]

I personally would not recruit anyone whose tattoos could not be hidden by the uniform. But in bizjets we are probably more strict as there is much more pax interaction.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Bottom Line - there's ten guys for one job even after selection. Why choose the guy WITH the tatoos over the one without given that some customers have a negative view of people with them? Choose the other identical guy without the ink. Easy.

So if you've got 'em, hide 'em.


I have no view either way as I have friends with them but I'd have to be at gunpoint to have one myself.

Good luck with your dream. I'd love to have you as a guest in my flightdeck in return for a trip in the cab of your train. I've often wondered how the operations differ/compare. Unfortunately the stupid irrational illogical rules made by the little people shrieking SECURITY means it will never happen.

WWW

[rog747]

hey weasle

u like trains too! me too......

isnt it funny how the train geeks like us come out the woodwork when discussing airline pilot tattoos...how funny is that,

come on rockrat, cab rides in your HST please LOL

cheers rog

[rockrats]

I once heard a story from a senior driver that years back (in the good ol' days!!) he had a Captain up frontfrom Paddington to Bristol.

It was very thick fog, and the Pilot found it hard that there where no radar's as such or in fact anything at all to tell the driver where you were... Doing 125mph in the fog with only your knowledge of the route to guide you, you were basically driving blind?! You look, or 'feel', marker points along the route to confirm where you are.

Also back then there were only the very basic of safety systems fitted, unlike todays HST's. They now give you advanced warning of speed changes, and signal changes, so its not all so 'last minute' to react, thus giving a safe, smooth ride.

Should anything happen, a full brake applicaton made would still take 1.5 miles to stop from 125....on a dry rail in good conditions..

The Pilot sadly got out after the first stop (Reading) and went to sit with the pax. I think in my opinion, he got a little disorientated, not knowing exactly where he was, kind of an 'out of control' type feeling if you get me??

God how i wish we could have people up front......:(

[rog747]

yes rockrats thats a great story re fog at high speed...

like driving yer car too and u look at the speedo and its 40-50 mph you feel nothing and u cant see 50 yds in front,
then a very weird feeling and i guess in your train u must be cr***ing yer pants?

do you not have to slow down the train in extreme vis?

i guess the colour light signals have good fog intensity,

[rockrats]

No, we keep on going at line speed, to keep time. Obviously if the rails are slippery, or leaves on the line, then those factors change the braking performance of the train; 417 tonnes on a couple of inches of metal rail, travelling at 125, when braking occasionally the wheels can lock up, and the speedo goes to '0', and it feels like an ice rink. When you know you're approaching a red aspect, with a junction in front of you, thats quite scary....!!!

As regards to signals, they are better now, as they are being replaced by LED singnals. Sometimes you cant see them though until they go past your cab.

I have to admit, i feel a great sense of pride, skill and a little buzz when its thick fog, night time, 125mph and you brake for a station, hit the platform at 60mph and stop in a trains length at a small marker saying 'HST Stop'.
Rather the same as the smoothest of landings in the worst of conditions....??