Glider Pilots of PPRuNe

[glider12000]

How many do we have here? What experience and club?

I`ve done several solo`s, completed first Bronze leg, with written test coming up.

I am a member of Southdowns GC, was also a member of Leeds Uni GC (Current UK University Champions!)

[RatherBeFlying]

There's a bunch including tow pilots.

Fly out of SOSA at Rockton -- trying for 300km and visiting the odd farmer. Several lovely farmer's daughters have sat in glider and had piccie taken -- all under 12;)

[glider12000]

I`m sure it`s a shame they aren`t a few years older!

[IFMU]

I fly at Harris Hill soaring in the states.

Harris Hill Soaring Center, Elmira, NY (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org)

I own a Schweizer 1-35C

http://members.goldengate.net/~tmrent/soar/docs/135/KB1.jpg

I used to fly with Nutmeg soaring

Nutmeg Soaring Assn - News (http://www.nutmegsoaring.org)

I have yet to do any real x-c, hard to devote the time required with a young family. But it's fun, great people and great flying. I consider myself more of a recreational glider pilot, with a couple hundred hours. Plus I tow, which is how I got into soaring in the first place.

-- IFMU

[glider12000]

Nice looking machine, tend not too see many of them over this side of the atlantic..

[jgs43]

I fly from Portmoak in Scotland, home of the Scottish Gliding Union/Centre. Tugmaster and Full rated gliding Instructor. Also BGA Senior Regional Examiner
and CRI. Approx 4,000+ hrs. Fly Libelle, Falke 2000, Pawnee -235 and anything with wings that people will let me fly.

[Slats One]

Heads up, Slats One here- I have the gliding obsession. Indeed I am currently in Australia on a gliding holiday and my last vario reading was +12 with averagerer at +10 and it took ages to get down, even with airbrakes...

Incredible flying, but the thermals can be violent and I now understand why the Aussies use the Low Tow -much safer for Mr Tuggie.

If anyone is in the South West of the Uk and fancies a Prune glider pilots tall tales at a pub one day this summer, shout.

[shortstripper]

I started off gliding and will most certainly go back to it, but have been flying powered SEP and TMG exclusively now since 1990. My last solo glider flight was in a K6CR in Germany in 1989 :(

I'm very tempted to join up at Parham and start up again ... maybe this year! :ok:

SS

[glider12000]

Shortstripper, you`d be most welcome.

We are a great, friendly club, with a wealth of experience, with top Cross-country pilots and Aerobatics instruction too.

We also, this week, completed the purchase of the airfield so we are now owners, which is a massive step forward for the club.

[rusty sparrow]

I started gliding atSGCs old site at Firle Beacon, before they moved to Parham in the 70's. Flew their old Swallow and once (at Parham) got a vertical line on the bargraph as I rocketed it up from 800' to 7500' in a stonking thermal.

Is that Swallow still there?

Gliding is a great way to fly - but I have found that some people in UK gliding clubs can be very officious and there's less freedom to be a pilot than in power flying. For power, I can exercise the responsibilities of my licence with far less hassle.

I''ve got a bronzze C and Silver height - alos PPL (A) with tailwheel endorsement

[Humaround]

Former member of Bidford Gliding, did 130 hours between 1996 and 2005, including Silver "C". Loved it and consider recent non-gliding as a temporary phase.

I have to say I do a lot more hours per year now with a PPL and share in a Permit aircraft - about 60 per year, compared with only about 15-20 gliding hours. IMO you need to have more leisure time available to do a serious number of hours as a glider pilot compared with power. It was common to spend 1/2 day at the club with maybe only 20 minutes in the air.

[gliderkev]

Hi
I'm a silver c pilot at Rattlesden and I love soaring. Why dont more power pilots come and give it a try?
Kevin

[RatherBeFlying]

Why dont more power pilots come and give it a try?Power flying you go to the airfield at your booking time, take up the a/c, bring it back and go home. Takes two hours out of the day plus driving time.

Gliders is at the very least a half-day exercise. That's for the students who show up early in the morning, pull out the towplanes and gliders and leave after lunch. Other studes show up later and stay to put the toys back in the box;)

For those doing an XC, towing or instructing, it's often a full day.

There's a number of glider pilots who take a break from gliding to raise a family -- time and money being limited resources.

For a student, gliders can be more expensive than power flying. Think several score 12-18 minute flights along with the tow fees before you get your XC legs.

[cats_five]

Silver C completed last August, no power flying and no intention of any except as a passenger.

[MIKECR]

Nice to see some fellow gliding fans. Initially started flying through the glider scene and then moved on to power flying. Silver C, Tug Pilot.., fATPL.

[gpn01]

Gliders is at the very least a half-day exercise. That's for the students who show up early in the morning, pull out the towplanes and gliders and leave after lunch. Other studes show up later and stay to put the toys back in the box;)


Not necessarily the case. I fly with Booker GC (just to the West of London). We provide bookable slots for students. Reality is though that gliding is a sociable and fun activity and part of the experience is helping out, chatting to people and learning at the same time. I always say to prospective students that if they want to turn up at the alloted time, do a series of flights and then go then they can. But they're going to get far more value for their time if they help out and become a participating member of the Club. If that's not for them then I recommend that they take a look instead at doing a PPL with one of the resident aeroclubs (Wycombe Air Centre and BAFC).

Me personally, 800Hrs+, Two Diamonds, Full-Gold, aerobatics enthusiast and Full-Cat rating. I fly anything available in the fleet (K-21s, K-13s, K-18s, Juniors, Discus, Pegasus, Duo Discus) have a half share in a Std Jantar and am always eager to try out different types whenever anyone will let me have a go. Flown from quite a few UK sites (thermal, cloud flying ridge and wave, winch and aerotow).

There's something absolutely awesome to fly a task of 300Kms+, using just nature's energy and without an engine.

Have also learned that for some power pilots that gliding is actually quite difficult for them because it involves a good level of handling skill, the ability to assess constantly changing conditions and a need to develop judgement skills without relying on either ground communications or a lever that allows you to 'go around' if you don't get the approach right first time, every time. I get plenty of field landing practice each year too and so there's a lot of adrenaline flowing with selecting a suitable field, etc. I guess for some that's a bit too stressful!

[wings on stornoway]

Hi everybody,

Just seen this topic in the forum!

I am looking for a motor glider + Trailer that is out of permit rebuilds no engine no problem! if you know anyone with a motor glider that they are wanting to sell you can P.M.me on here! or look on the L.A.A site all help will be appreciated!

regards gary :ok:

[Blinkz]

ah its nice to finally see a decent gliding thread! The first time I ever flew an aircraft was in a glider, and the first aircraft I soloed in was a glider too! Good times were had!

I did all of my glider flying out of Portmoak with the Edinburgh uni gliding club, flying K13 initially and then K8 when solo. I have around 50 hours in gliders but never quite managed to get up to bronze since I then started my powered training and didn't want to mix the two!

I now have a fATPL and fly the A320/A321 for Aer Lingus based in Dublin. I keep meaning to go to the Dublin gliding club and get back into my gliding roots!

[IFMU]

Nice looking machine, tend not too see many of them over this side of the atlantic..
Thanks. They only built about 101 of them, good in their day but can't really match the performance of glass. But at 400 lbs empty, 36:1 glide ratio, its a great recreational machine with ability to do x-c and thermals great. Plus it's metal, so I can tie it out. On a nice day when I decide to play hooky from work, I have a 10 minute drive to the field, preflight, bs with my buddies a little, get in line, and I can be airborne within 40 minutes after leaving my desk. I only assemble once per season.

For a student, gliders can be more expensive than power flying.
There is truth in this, but in the long run it can be a lot cheaper. I like to fly at least 2.3 hours a clip, mostly because our tow fee to 2000' is $23. At 2.3 hours that is $10/hour, or what my Dad used to pay for a Beech Debonair way back when. Cheap. Of course you have to factor in insurance costs to come up with a real hourly cost, but why spoil the fun.

-- IFMU

[Dan Winterland]

There's lots of glider pilots about on PPRuNe. A gliding forum has been mooted several times, but has been rejected by the mods.

Personally, about 650hrs, gold with one diamond, lapsed Full-Cat. But haven't flown a glider since 1996. Miss it now and again.

Dangerous sport though. Thought one of my students (female) was quite cute. One thing led to another, and twenty three years later, we're still together and have two teenage sons!

[Mark1234]

Yup, 115hrs, bronze, silver height and distance, but not got around to duration, 5hrs is just too much like hard work! Originally out of booker, flew a bit down in aus, and got sidetracked by stubby winged heavy things with propellors.

Still consider myself a glider pilot, and will be back.. my most memorable flying of any kind was a week out of omarama in NZ, dual in a duo discus.

However, IMHO it's true - gliding is value for money, but not time. Powered value for time, but not money... Booker is/was a long way ahead of anywhere else I've flown for value for time, however I'm pretty sure you'll not get far in any gliding club if you turn up, fly and leave. Even if you own your own, there's always the risk of landing out etc. Granted spamcans do 'land out', but it's generally rarer :)

[astir 8]

About 750 hrs, 2 diamonds & a curious disposition towards old gliders made of wood & preferably topless (the gliders as well :D)

Gliding may be time consuming but it comes with a whole social life too.

[oversteer]

Went solo in Sept after about a year learning, on and off. Based out of Booker, a very professional operation. Have about 25 hours total and 8 hrs solo, now doing Bronze lectures and hoping to get Bronze/Cross Country endorsement by the start of the summer.

Wish I was in the States though! $23 for a tow to 2000' ... :ok:

[powerless]

Late starter, only 60 hrs learnt, mostly at Hus Bos but also now have US PPL with glider rating. Agree it takes time but much more social than power at most places.

[glider12000]

It`s good to see many other fellow glider pilots here.

Find this forum an easier format to read than gliderpilot.net..

[Blink182]

Glider pilot in remission here........... Silver C approx 110 Hrs. Have not flown unpowered for many years mainly due to time constraints.
Have to satisfy the urge with things such as this...................YouTube - Gliding Video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aumO0ZHwAro)

Does anyone know about the incoming EASA glider pilot licence rules ? will I qualify for Grandfather rights ?

[Kestrelpilot]

Would be good to have a gliding spot.
I fly a 19m Kestrel out of Aboyne, 400hours, lapsed BI.

[gsora]

How refreshing to have a Gliding thread.

Some have mentioned time, yes Gliding is time consuming but the rewards are great if you have the time.

Owning or part owning a sailplane is the way forward for more flying time, I have a share in a DG500/22 and usually manage 50/60 hours a year in it.

My tall stories include flying out of Fuentemilanos (Spain) and having completed one of the milk run 500`s on a day with 13000` amsl cu bases. The conditions were so good that when I got back I picked a tp 100Km away and did an o/r. :E

Am a CFI with over 3000 hrs gliding, 3 diamonds, 1300 hrs Tugs, been doing it for 43 years, only wish I could do another 43!

Often seen in the wave in good old Yorkshire! :ok:

[Crash one]

I wonder if I am a bit odd!! 4 first solo's? (1) 1956 RAF Hawkinge age 16 ATC, T21. (2) 1980 Portmoak, T21, followed by a share in a K6E, Bronze & Silver height, total about 50hrs. (3) 1987 Fife Aero Club, Cessna 150, 3 & 1/2 hrs. (4) 2006 Tayside Aviation, Cessna 152, followed by NPPL & Tailwheel checkout, bought an Emeraude last April. Finally made it to the dream I had when I was 12.
Still think the gliding was the best way to fly, apart from the time involved per airtime.
I still spend time picking fields every few minutes & get nervous over water or mountains. Engines driving gliders are a lot bigger & more reliable than a 90HP Continental!

[shortstripper]

Well if you want a gliding video .... Here's the Daddy :ok:

YouTube - UK Smoking High Speed (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ioLjWShI-ac)

SS

[snapper1]

IMFU
Hi, I also fly at Harris Hill, but only on our club simulator via 'Silent Wings'. My club is the Derbyshire and Lancashire club in northern England. We chose Harris Hill for the sim because its on a hill, just like us!
Me; Silver C and currently flying an ASW15b. I've tired a bit of power flying and enjoyed it, but I was so glad to get back in my glider and not have all that radio chatter to deal with, just the freedom of flight for flight's sake.

[Piper.Classique]

I fly my libelle from Chauvigny, France,also tug pilot there. Good soaring, not too much airspace hassle.

[Airbus Girl]

Well I think the Bookerites might know me....if they were at the club in the 1990s.....Silver 'C', a hundred or so hours, flown abroad too, good fun, never enough time!!!!
Of course I agree the club was very well run back then.....not sure about now though, hearing various stories!!!

[fisbangwollop]

Sailing took over from gliding about 25 years ago...... Bronze C , silver height and silver duration.....Done at feshie in K6 during a snow storm!!!.......learnt to fly at Strathaven in K7 then bought share in Pilatus B4 at Portmoak......many happy hours spent soaring Benarty and the Bishop but without doubt the best bits tyhe expeditions to Feshie........now spend my living looking after the light aircraft and helo's flying around Scotland......if you use Scottish Info 119.875 we may have spoken...:ok:

[Roger Cottee]

I fly at Rattlesden and have been solo for nearly a year with just over 31 hours TT. I should be completing my bronze in the spring and will try for silver this summer.

Its a great sport for young people, I have spent many great summer weekends there. I cant wait for the season to start again.

Roger

[IFMU]

IMFU
Hi, I also fly at Harris Hill, but only on our club simulator via 'Silent Wings'...

I don't know about the sim, but the Hill is a great place to fly. We have a little local ridge, with a north wind you can always bore up and down. The nice thing about being on a hill, especially as a tug pilot, is it is safer in an engine failure. All I have to do is clear the guardrail, which is about 30' lower than the runway, and I have 800' of altitude and a half mile to the 2500' emergency field. Great people there, great terrain for x-c. Some of the big boys have flown 1000K's out of Harris Hill. The soaring out west is supposed to be a lot better, but I'm happy with what I've got here.

-- IFMU

[snapper1]

We only winch at my club. Its an all grass field and it slopes in all directions. If we get a cable break when launching onto the ridge we have two small emergency fields about 600ft below us. Its a nice ridge with access to others nearby. Good wave - one of our pundits was at FL195 this autumn. He also has the club record for an official 750km.
If you ever get over to this side of the pond, come and see us - and if the weather's crap, we can use the sim to fly at Harris Hill.
snapper

[will5023]

I started gliding at Ringmer G.C, in 1983, then converted to power in 87, via the Silver "C" conversion, £400 at the time! Still go thermaling now, but usually borrow a mates self launching ultra-light glider, got a clip of it on You-Tube under Alatus-M glider(UK) along the south coast.

[DeepestSouth]

I to started off gliding (Husbands Bosworth and then Bicester) before PPL (MG) and then PPL. I absolutely LOVED gliding and it was only RAF postings to inaccessible places that stopped me. I'm now very seriously thinking of restarting this Spring if I can just make sure I don't exceed the CofG limits...! 157 hrs and Silver

[JW411]

Started on a glider when I was 16 and became heavily involved with the RAFGSA organisation from 1963 until 1979. I instructed for 15 years and was a CFI for about 7 of those. Gold C with one diamond.

[Astral_Flyer]

I have done a fair amount of gliding in my time, and I have mixed feelings about it all. It is pot luck to find a good club with instructors that are enthusiastic, and are able to teach others..

I did spend a lot of time (and money) at one club... I found that behind the scenes a lot of politics was going on, that managed to spill over to us poor students.. And it showed in various ways..

The training that I did was with one instructor who was fairly good. At odd intervals I was passed onto another instructor. Towards the end of my time with them on a course I went out with the CFI ... Most people were frightened of the CFI.. My experience was one of the best ones that I have ever had.. With the CFI I got to learn how to track over land, keep station over a particular spot and many other little things that you don't normally do. I learned how to make very small delicate movements and really control the aircraft. It was hard work, yet enjoyable. The CFI was talking to me all the time, and in turn I was talking back.. My second time out with the CFI was as good.. Landed out.. Most of the landing approach was done by myself, only on the final approach over a road into a very small field did the CFI take over.. And as a bonus to that experience. I was allowed to take off on a short tow rope.. I lost it after a minute or so. Short tow isn't all that easy, as some will know.. :)

All of the above came crashing down the next day. New instructor, fading light.. To say that I was being treated by him as a beginner wouldn't do justice.. He picked faults in everything I did. Took control from me at virtually every opportunity.. That included the landing that I had set up near the hangars that as far as I was concerned was perfect in position and speed.. I didn't bother going back to the club. I had, enough of it.. Such a shame really.. It took me ages to go back to gliding.. Power was a lot more relaxed and more organised..

The club is still very active.. But I will never go back to them.. They lost me and they lost my two sons who glide at another club..

I still love flying and fairly active on that front. Most memorable time was in Switzerland at Bex.. Lovely club and super people.. :)

Astral

[glider12000]

Astral, that certainly show`s the difficulty that comes from learning, and when not getting the same instructor on each occasion.

It`s hard to work out exactly what would be a useful way forward, without increasing prices of having professional instructors, or where it would be unreasonable for the same instructors to be flying every weekend.

It took me just 11 years from first flight to solo...with School, college, University and working slowing things up, as well as flying at Portsmouth Naval, Leeds Uni, Southdowns and Lasham. I managed to get solo at the Inter University Gliding Competition week at Lasham, after having a sustained period of flights with the same instructor.

[robin]

Silver C and PPL conversion. Thanks to the dear ex-wife I had to give up my gliding (my first love), but when she tried to tell me to give up powered flying as well, .... well. :=

I still see myself as a glider pilot first and foremost and will go back to it once the alimony has been paid.

[Blink182]

Robin........... well done sir !

[Fitter2]

Only just noticed this thread about 'proper pilots'. (Head down for incoming from interlopers).

2,000hrs gliding on about 80 types, 800hrs power. 3 diamonds, instructed including CFI for several years but now just enjoy my soaring whenever and wherever I can, in syndicate ASH25 or friends whatever.

[Fitter2]

Whatever activity you practice, sometimes you meet people who seem to delight in fun-removal.

However, there are always other places to do it. I moved clubs once when politics got in the way of fun, and I wouldn't let ego-maniacs kill of my enjoyment of the best fun you can have with your clothes on..

[TechCons]

It's nice to see a gliding thread on here - they are few and far between. I'm in my 33rd year of gliding (started when I was 16). Learnt to fly in Oz and continue to fly and instruct at a 'big club down south' today. 2,600 hours gliding time, 3 diamonds and a UK flown 750. Seem to spend quite a bit of time upside down these days too! Still enjoying it and hope to do so for many years to come yet.

[glider12000]

Ar Ni, Make sure you join up for the Inter Uni Gliding Competition in August. This year it is hosted by Leeds Uni, and hosted at Pocklington at Wolds. Great time meeting everyone from all over the country and also a great chance for some progression. I`m looking forward to it already!

[On Glide]

Nice thread, I guess there are quite a few glider pilots on PP.

I fly at Lasham, Hants which is the largest UK club - high fees but great facilities and full time staff so you can turn up and get a launch whenever you need one.

Cross country flying and racing/competitions is fantastic sport and the variations in the weather, often subtle, mean it never gets boring. I fly an 18m glider with turbo and have 1,400hrs. Longest flight so far was Aboyne (Scotland) to Lasham in a glider, 11:00hrs airborne! Memorable.

OG

[n5296s]

Interesting thread. I tried gliding about 18 months ago at Hollister, at the very southern end of the Bay Area. I thought it would be fun, I'd learn something, and get a new rating in lieu of a BFR. I got as far as soloing but just didn't see the fun or interest in continuing.

I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".

I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.

It seems to me, as others have said on the thread, that gliding is more about lifestyle than about flying - it really has to be a consuming passion (and it helps to be somewhere that gets some lift). Whereas powered flying is something you can structure around the rest of your life.

n5296s

[BRL]

I fly an 18m glider with turbo

:confused:

[RatherBeFlying]

I fly an 18m glider with turboThat's a glider with an engine that can save you from a landout, but not powerful enough for a takeoff.I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling". Quite correct as the getting to solo stage is 20-60 10-12 minute downhill sleigh rides. Each flight costs a tow charge.

Last year with poor conditions and other commitments, I managed 23 flights and 32 hours at a cost including club fees and trailer parking of about $2100 ~= $65/hr.

The year before was 65 flights and 65 hr. for $48/hr.

As you get better at staying up, the tow fees become a smaller proportion.

[IFMU]

It seems to me, as others have said on the thread, that gliding is more about lifestyle than about flying - it really has to be a consuming passion (and it helps to be somewhere that gets some lift). Whereas powered flying is something you can structure around the rest of your life.

n5296s

n5296s,

I have heard more than one professional pilot say that soaring is the only real flying there is. But when your first experience is stuck in a sleigh ride, it is hard to appreciate the truth in that statement. And if you really appreciate the utility of something like a C182, it is hard to find any utility in a glider, because there is none. Partly it is lifestyle, but I feel I'm in the soaring for the flying. Partly for the challenge, partly because now that I'm established it is cheap. Between tow and rental fees at my club I'm paying about $30-40/hour on the average. When I fly my own glider I generally shoot for direct costs of $10/hour. But, when insurance etc is factored in it ends up more like $40-50/hour to fly my own ship. The advantage to owning a glider is not financial. The advantage is that when it is good, and I have the time, it's there for me for as long as I want. Last time I flew the pitts it was $180/hour dual, and I think it's gone up.

I have met many people who have decided soaring is not for them for similar reasons that you stated. Nothing wrong with that!

-- IFMU

[Fitter2]

Longest flight so far was Aboyne (Scotland) to Lasham in a glider, 11:00hrs airborne! Memorable.

Ah, so that identifies On Glide as Afandi.

ChrisN is obvious, as are one or two others.

It's fun working out who is who.

F2.

[aviate1138]

Started at Lasham 1966. Tony Burton instructor. Did a winter course and started a syndicate with 2 pals and bought an Oly 2B from the Polish Air Force Assoc. Did my 5 hours / 6 actually and landed with a numb bum. Gain of height at same time. Never got the cross country leg as I was sent abroad. Took up power because one could do it alone and when suitable. Still really glad I learnt to fly in all manner of winds and the sound of an engine quitting is never quite so traumatic if you have gliding experience IMHO. Talking single engine VFR aircraft. Bronze C - final solo glide was in a Pirat - seemed so advanced after an Oly 2B but you could really scrape in the Oly!

[BackPacker]

I have just sent in my enrollment form for my second week of gliding at Salland (the Netherlands). Last year I did 15 dual flights, and I hope I can go solo this year.

[chrisN]

Fitter, Oi! I was trying to figure out who OG was! And you know I know you!

I think I have met Robin, but I’m not absolutely sure. Most of the others I couldn’t guess at.

All I wish to divulge about me is that I started in 1970, have gold and two diamonds, ex-instructor, and am involved in various gliding and other aviation committee work. My only 500 km flight for the third diamond didn’t count, as the camera jammed.

Cjboy, the restriction on not taking your wife for a flight must have been a club rule, not gliding as legally determined in the UK, nor as allowed by BGA operational regulations. On the contrary, there is a BGA licence which does not require any instructor rating, and confers amongst other privileges the ability to take passengers. It is basically about the Silver C standard (I can’t be bothered to check the rules, but if you are that interested you could find out for yourself).

To other mainly power pilots who comment adversely on gliding, of course it is not a utility means of transport. It is a pleasurable hobby, a sport if you choose to take it that way including competitive elements, or whatever. Regarding costs, yes it is approximately equivalent cost per hour of flying to get to solo standard, but the total hours to solo and therefore cost is lower than power flying. After that, it is very much a question of how you choose to do it. A cheap secondhand glider owned on your own, or with even lower costs by sharing with several others in a syndicate, will result in very much lower total costs to someone who does say 50 hours a year than power flying. On the other hand, yes, you do have to give more time to it. If you do your share of work around the gliding club, it is much more time-consuming than power flying. To my mind, they are no more comparable endeavours than are dinghy sailing and owning a power yacht that enables you to visit Monte Carlo. My total annual costs for typically 50-60 hours a year used to be around a thousand pounds when I owned a 30-year-old wooden glider (K6E for those who understand). Now it is a lot more, because I bought a new high performance glider, but that’s just my choice.

Chris N.

[cats_five]

I got as far as soloing but just didn't see the fun or interest in continuing.

I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".

I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.

You seem to have had a rather unfortunate experience. By the time I went solo I had been soaring on ridge, and in thermal and wave - we had a wave flight to over FL100 one evening. My first flight was ridge-soaring, and I was allowed to do most of the flying. The longest pre-solo flight was about 1:40 - that was the wave flight.

We mostly do winch launching where I fly, so when there's no lift the up round & down takes 5 minutes or so, but if one needs to practise landings it's much cheaper than using aerotows.

If you go back when there is lift around you might have a completely different and much more rewarding experience.

[sunday driver]

Hi

Another budding (?) glider here.

First flights topless in 1965 at Lasham
Solo at Haddenham the following year at 16 - seemed as easy as p!55.

PPL solo in 92 + IMC (resting) mainly with the much missed Barry Dyke

And 18 months ago, a couple of weeks hol with Mrs SD at Lasham, and solo once again. The most challenging learning task I have ever had.

Love to do more (time & ££ :()

SD

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

I have about 150 hours gliding, a Silver C and held a BI rating.

I gave up about 6 years ago, mainly becaues of club politics and partly due to a suspect back which was made worse by ground handling and rigging.

I was a member of a large(ish) club made up of 80% nice people, 10% idiots and 10% a*&%holes who got their satisfaction by spoiling somebody's day!!

I would love to get back, particularly it it could be away from the traditional gliding club. I dream of finding a farm strip with a handful of friends.

Chris

[chrisN]

TF, there is at least one. If not in your area, why not try forming one?

Chris N.

[tinpilot]

The BGA ensure you can't do this, you have to have a CFI. The whole setup is all about teaching ab-initios not about enjoying flying.Drivel.

The newest BGA club doesn't have any ab initios, they are set up purely to enjoy solo soaring in the Peak District.

They may get round to instructing beginners one day, but only because they want to, not because they have to.

[cats_five]

Which club would the newest one you know of be? The newest one I know of is in the Eden Valley (near Penrith), not the Peak District, and aspires to start offering tuition.

[WE992]

I went solo in 1978 and have just short of 3000 hours. I am am a BGA full rated instructor and ex CFI of 2 clubs. I currently own 11 types of Slingsby gliders.

[Cat5 in the Hat]

Have been gliding since 1995, and loved every minute of it - especially the aeros!

[ProfChrisReed]

Thoughtful_Flyer: I dream of finding a farm strip with a handful of friends.Suffolk Soaring Club, of which I'm a member, flies out of Rougham near Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. We're all solo, XC-orientated pilots with our own gliders; all the club owns is a Rallye tug and a caravan for clubhouse. No training, no politics (we're too small for that, and what could we find to argue about apart from mowing the runway?), just rig, fly, derig, pub (or retrieve followed by pub).

If anyone here is local and wants to get back into gliding without the standard club experience, they could re-solo and gain their XC qualification at ChrisN's club (I've flown there, all very friendly and relaxed and no obvious agony meetings over club issues), buy a sub-£10k glider (lots of decent XC machines at that price) and do the "group of mates at a farm strip" kind of thing with us. PM me if you want more details - website is at http://www.suffolksoaring.co.uk (http://www.suffolksoaring.co.uk/).

I guess I should introduce myself - 12 years in gliding, Sliver + Gold distance, former Basic Instructor, flying an Open Cirrus (the gentleman's conveyance - everywhere at 50kt, none of this unseemly rushing around the sky). My planned 500k is the Welsh borders O/R.

[cumulusrider]

Started in 1978 when my driver(I was a rally navigator) gave up to go gliding. Went solo in 1979. PPL in 1982 Gave up in 1984 as I was fed up flying a Cessna 150 for 40 minutes to land have a cop of tea and fly back to stay current.
Rejoined gliding in 1996 after being made redundant and the wife was fed up with me around the house. Now 300+ hrs gold and a diamond and have the use of a Mosquito (thanks Rob) A winch launch for £8 can set me off on a cross country flight of 4-5 hrs during the summer. Even club aircraft are only £33/hr for a Discus. Still love it but have been forced to only join as a social member this year for financial reasons. Any one got a spare seat in a cross country 2 seater this year?
NP

[ChampChump]

crashone (and others) No you are not alone.

5000 ish flights in gliders (Bronze, silver height, never much motivated to do the rest) with an AEI rating. Loved the AEI flying.

PPL SLMG followed, followed by Group A. Bought a motor glider, spent 7 happy years pottering, but the gliding club commitments meant that my PPL had nothing much in the way flights going anywhere.

New partner, new motivations. Political changes at gliding club. More PPL flying, purchase of Aeronca, new love.

Gliding abandoned, as per last two sentences.

Miss it? Yes, but the Aeronca life wins.

[glider12000]

Thanks everyone for coming forward and introducing yourselves on this thread. Great too see so many other glider pilots. Hopefully from this thread we can go forward and stimulate some great debates about the gliding world and just share some stories, anecdotes and general pieces of information for those of us, that are early in our soaring careers can use for the future.

Once again thanks!

[Jim59]

THE CFI ENDORSEMENT
This is a mandatory endorsement for the Instructor at a club who is responsible for flying standards where any flight training takes place.
At clubs where the club has formally notified the BGA that no flight training takes
place and where no flying takes place by pilots with a lower qualification than a
bronze badge with cross country endorsement, a non-instructor BGA endorsed senior
pilot may be appointed to be responsible for flying standards.
If the Club does not give pre-solo (ab-initio) instruction then there is provision for a Restricted CFI Endorsement. Restricted CFI Endorsement Requirements:

Previously have held a BGA Instructor Rating
Have 20 hours flying in gliders in the preceding 12 months
Be in current cross-country practice.Above from BGA Laws & Rules.

[Zulu01]

Most of you seem to be UK based, I was South Africa based when I flew gliders.

Gold badge with about 220 hours, my 500km was dual in the Nationals in a ASW 21 so did not count towards Diamond. Did ridge soaring, mountain flying and wide open plains as well.

Flew out of Goldfields Gliding for 6 years in the 90's , held an instructors brevet and passenger approval. We were mostly a winch club but I had aerotow rating as well and we did practice LOW TOW.

Flew twice in UK in about 98 at Lasham. Flew once in the States in 92 while a crew member for SA world champs team in Uvalde.

Have at least 8 types in my logbook , cant remember where it is to check, as family commitments stopped both my gliding and flying in 99.

I admire the UK pilots who fly in difficult conditions, as in South Africa we regularly get lift off the winch and have a soaring day, so much so that club gliders had to be booked and you had a max time aloft on good days. Even winter days 1200ft off the winch was normal in a single seater.

Started to do some aerobatics with our CFI too , which was awesome, and did some formation flying which was much more difficult than I thought it would be. LS1 and ASW19 so similar flying characteristics.

Glad there are plenty of other glider pilots out there on PPRUNE

[bad bear]

Do they have to have a CFI who is a full cat instructor?

If he's a full cat instructor and there's no instruction done at this new club he must be instructing elsewhere to maintain the rating!

Edensoaring edensoaring (http://www.edensoaring.co.uk/) will reopen on 2nd May and do have a full cat CFI ( 4 fullcats and several as cats too)and there was instruction last year. The club should have a K13 on loan plus the possibility of a 2nd 2 seater.... why not visit? With the £ / euro so bad it is great value and the soaring is awsome. great wave, ridge 50 km long great thermals. Good in all wind directions and famous for the Helm, an easterly wave.. oh and good airspace. There have been diamond heights in south east wave
b b

[Crash one]

I may be wrong but one of the reasons I haven't kept up gliding is not being allowed to take a passenger, even in a privately owned a/c.
Is this a BGA rule or just a club thing?
I can do it with an engine up front.

[rusty sparrow]

That's one of the reasons why I dropped out - I can take anyone up as a passenger in a light aircraft without asking permission but not in a glider despite having a Bronze C and several hundred glider flilghts.

That and the politics and the 'Dad's Army, Captain Mannering, attitude of so many of the officials who saw gliding more as an arena for egos rather than a way to enjoy one of the purest forms of flying. I also feel that some of the petty restrictions do not make for safer flying - the AAIB investigate GA incidents and publish them for others to learn from. The BGA do not.

If I could find a simple, reasonably basic gliding club flying K13s or other tube and fabric glliders, that was for enthusiasts and didn't cost too much then I'd join!

[White Shadow]

On returning from WW2 flying, I joined Cambridge University Gliding Club and did some gliding, and towing with the CU Flying Club's Tiger Moth (gaining height with the T31 on tow was a a long, slow business). Then Lands End Gliding Club, cliff-soaring in their Blanik, and towing with their Auster, with occasional wave-soaring when the wind direction and strength formed wave over the airfield from the Irish mountains. Later, when there was no easily accessible gliding club where I lived, I changed to SLMGs - Fourniers. At Yeovilton the RN gliding club had the use of a lovely, privately-owned SFS31 Milan, which we could fly when the Navy aircraft weren't training on the field. Then at Exeter I flew my own RF4D, and a sydicate RF6B. I took them all over the UK. Not nearly the performance of a modern sailplane, but enough to soar the sea-breeze front along the S Devon coat East of Exeter, and I appreciated the ability to turn on the engine when there was no lift about (or I couldn't find it or stay in it). A lovely flight one beautiful late-summer day was Exeter - Severn-Bridges - Shobdon - Hawarden - LLandudno and around Snowdon to Caernarfon - Borth - Swansea, and across Exmoor back to Exeter. A mixture of soaring, and engine-on through the rotors and down-draughts downwind of Snowdon. The best of both worlds.

[Windrusher]

Gliding for 25 years, mainly in Oxfordshire but with spells in Bavaria and northern Italy. Haven't always been able to follow the pastime as intensively as I'd have liked, but would never give it up. Acquired NPPL (SSEA and SLMG) a few years ago - partly for the complementary disciplines of clock-and-compass navigation, experience of controlled airspace and so on - and dabbled with hot-air ballooning for a while, but still feel you can't beat gliding for the pleasure, exhilaration and satisfaction of pure flight.

Misanthropes on gliding fields? Well, I guess there are always a few (didn't Platypus reckon that competition gliding required at least six of the seven deadly sins?), but for the most part you find remarkable warmth and generosity. As for the BGA, it strikes me - in recent years at least - as by far the most sensible, effective and professional of the sport organizations that I know, and is doing an excellent job of keeping our sport as free from external control and bureaucracy as possible.

Windrusher

[glider12000]

Lots of people raise the issue of passenger carrying, what would you determine to be a fairer way to allow passengers to be carried by pilots?

[ProfChrisReed]

Lots of people raise the issue of passenger carrying, what would you determine to be a fairer way to allow passengers to be carried by pilots?To be fair to clubs, this is a much harder issue than it at first sight appears.

I think the main difficulty arises because of the delegation of power from the CAA to the BGA. The BGA has implemented this by requiring the CFI (via the duty instructor) to approve each pilot for flying from the site on a particular day. For solo flying, this is done via simple currency rules in most clubs, with the duty instructor having a veto (e.g. for early solo pilots in difficult conditions).

Indirectly, this imposes potential liability on the club if a pilot is permitted to fly when doing so created an unacceptable risk. The easiest way to cope with this is either to limit passenger flying to those with a formal qualification - the most objective/least risky is to require an instructor rating; alternatively the club can devise its own passenger carrying rating (meeting the BGA minimum experience, which I can't recall from memory), but this involves regular testing of pilots by the club for an activity which does not really benefit the club.

Add to this the fact that the club's two-seaters are probably in demand by club members for instructional/mutual flying, so that restricting passenger flying is a good way of ensuring that demand is met.Additionally, insurance requirements may limit two seaters to instructional flying unless both on board are solo, so extending insurance to non-instructional passenger carrying could be a cost.

At a previous club which had an "instructor only" rule I suggested to the CFI that we might start by allowing passengers to be carried by those who (a) had at some previous time been trained and achieved an instructor rating (demonstrating training helps avoid liability), (b) passed annual checks aimed at passenger carrying, and (c) were current under club rules. Even this was thought too difficult, although it would have applied to maybe two members.

Where the two-seater is not a club glider, there is still the problem of needing the instructor of the day's approval to launch. This may go away once formal licensing of glider pilots is introduced - if you have a licence whose privileges include carrying passengers, and are current, the club should have no liability from allowing you to launch. The current problem is that the only "qualification" at present is an instructor or club rating, and allowing an "unqualified" pilot to carry passengers creates a liability risk.

This is a long way of saying I don't have an easy answer.

[rusty sparrow]

I don't know how it works in USA but this extract from the Colarodo Soaring Association faq (http://www.soarcsa.org/soaring_faq.html) states

'In the US, glider licenses are issued by the FAA, just like airplane licenses. The Private Pilot license for gliders allows you to carry passengers.'

That would answer the question - perhaps Bronze C would be equivalent to a PPL with area restricttion and Silver C as PPL without area restriction.

How do things work in other countries?

[IFMU]

rusty sparrow,

Here in the states, once you get your private pilot glider rating you are free to take who you please, where you please, regardless of badges held or not. You have to meet the FAA requirements for currency, 3 landings in 90 days. Our club requires attendance at an annual safety meeting and an annual field checkout. If somebody is observed doing something unsafe, either from recklessness or poor skills they are talked to by an instructor and it is taken care of. Most often happens with folks who adhere more to the minimum FAA standard, and shows in their poor energy management at landing. Does not happen often though.

-- IFMU

[rusty sparrow]

IFMU

That sounds like a much better and fairer system!

RS

[Fournier Boy]

Just seen this thread -

Current Glider pilot, Gold C, 1 Diamond, ex Instructor, ex Junior Nationals regular, ex private owner, current tuggy....

and a fellow Southdown member :-)

FB

[David Roberts]

As for the BGA, it strikes me - in recent years at least - as by far the most sensible, effective and professional of the sport organizations that I know, and is doing an excellent job of keeping our sport as free from external control and bureaucracy as possible.

Nice of you to say so!

Past Chairman (2000-2006) BGA!

[oversteer]

I also feel that some of the petty restrictions do not make for safer flying - the AAIB investigate GA incidents and publish them for others to learn from. The BGA do not.

This is not true, accident reports are listed on the BGA website.

It's password protected for some reason, but the AAIB website gives the username and password..

Air Accidents Investigation: Links (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/links/index.cfm)

[chrisN]

The system for major glider accident investigation was changed two or three years ago. There are now three kinds of accident investigation.

As I understand it, fatal or very serious non-fatal accidents are now investigated by the AAIB, and the AAIB reports are filed by them and are accessible via their website. (Previously, some of them were handled by BGA accident investigators, under delegation from the AAIB. In order to maintain consistent handling, and satisfy coroners that the same degree of professionalism was applicable with gliding fatalities as with GA accidents, that delegation stopped. The AAIB teams today will however often have a gliding specialist to assist them if they deem it necessary or helpful.)

If it is not sufficiently serious for the AAIB to wish to be involved, there is a BGA accident investigation team which looks at the initial report from a club, and decides whether to do their own investigation or leave it to the club safety officer etc. I believe only a small percentage of such accidents are now investigated by the BGA accident investigators.

The vast majority of minor accidents are reported by clubs to the BGA using a standardised form, augmented by various witness statements etc. Just as the AAIB does not publish individual witness statements, only the resulting report after they have completed their investigation and summarise what they choose to make public, the BGA does not make public the individual witness statements etc. from these minor accidents, nor the personal details which are revealed on the accident report forms. All these details are seen only by those who need to see them.

Summaries of all accidents are published in Sailplane and Gliding.

As I understand it, the accident summaries visible via the AAIB website (Oversteer’s reference) include all, and are more detailed than those published in Sailplane and Gliding. I believe they are summarised by one of the BGA people for that purpose.

Chris N.

(Edited to add last paragraph)

[Doodlebug]

Silver-C, ex tuggie.

Good to see all the thermal-junkies here. What a shame we can't have our own little corner on the forum, as somebody stated earlier. Was any reason given?

[cats_five]

Good to see all the thermal-junkies here.

Some of us are wave junkies as well.... :)

[7of9]

Silver C 150 hrs.
Not flown Gliders since 1998.
Used to fly at Humber Gliding Club when it was at Lindholm near the then RAF Finningley, then moved the Club to RAF Scampton where i last flew from.
Have flown from Sutton Bank, Cosford, Perranporth & Syerston.

Brother still flies as a ful cat Inst down south Known as CIV (Alan Marshall)

That's him there in the early 1990's

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/kirksandall/Alan.jpg

:eek::eek:

Now thinking of going for my PPL if i don't get made redundant soon.

Some of my Gliding photo's can be seen here;

Gliding. :: Fotopic.Net (http://trevor1019.fotopic.net/c606597.html)

Cheers Trevor Marshall

[thermick]

Had a glider flight at St Athan in 1956 pilot Doug Bridson, 6 flights on a duff gliding holiday at Withybush in 1968 then took up gliding properly in 1969 at the RAE Farnborough.
Since then I have not looked back, now got 4000+hrs gliding, 400+hrs PPL, Diamond Badge complete, Full Cat instructor, shares in an ASH25 and a Kestrel 20, fly Robin DR400, Super Cub & Pawnee tugs + Super Falke and Grob 109 Motor Gliders and now fly at Lasham.
This fascinating hobby (obsession!) has taken me to fly gliders in Australia, New Zealand, Spain and France. Yet I did all of my badge flights in the U/K.

It has been brilliant!! :ok:

Cheers.

Mick.

[Dave Unwin]

I've done a bit. Easily the most cerebral way to fly, using the atmosphere as your fuel and your intellect as the engine. Three-dimensional sailing.:ok:

[good finish]

that photo bought back memories.
knew gash civ really well - great character and always at his happiest when moaning!
other chap is malcolm billany who was a c cat instructor with the ATC and a nicer man you couldn't hope to meet.

i would agree with a lot of the previous posters - gliding gives levels of fun, challenge and excitement that you just dont get from other forms of aviation - enjoyable as they may be.

[7of9]

Yes thats him, always happiest when Moaning.......... I should know being his brother, the photo was taken at Cosford i believe as that's where i was given it.......

Trev

[mary meagher]

Hey, you sound like my kind of guy! how about a date?

I started flying gliders at Booker in 1983, went solo in 3 months, silver C following summer, PPL at Wycombe Scare Centre following winter, and never took a break, so now have 1,800 hours in gliders, Ass Cat Instructor (regional examiner said I was too careful to become a Full Cat). And l,200 hours in SELP, mostly tugging; holding US IR and seaplane rating. At Jack Brown's, in Florida.

Somebody sent me a SPORTING LICENCE from the FAI, now what kind of sporting do you suppose they have in mind?

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

That's one of the reasons why I dropped out - I can take anyone up as a passenger in a light aircraft without asking permission but not in a glider despite having a Bronze C and several hundred glider flilghts.

That and the politics and the 'Dad's Army, Captain Mannering, attitude of so many of the officials who saw gliding more as an arena for egos rather than a way to enjoy one of the purest forms of flying. I also feel that some of the petty restrictions do not make for safer flying - the AAIB investigate GA incidents and publish them for others to learn from. The BGA do not.

If I could find a simple, reasonably basic gliding club flying K13s or other tube and fabric glliders, that was for enthusiasts and didn't cost too much then I'd join!



Sadly how right you are!!

I'm amazed there are not more private gliders operated outside of the club scene. Lots of people seem to feel the way we do but it doesn't seem to progress.

It was one of the main reasons why I packed it in. I had (well still have I suppose) a Silver C, and a BI rating

Correct me if I'm out of date but I think there is still no legal requirement for a licence. Providing somebody has the correct paperwork for the fitting of a tow release on their Piper or whatever, there is nothing to stop them towing me in a glider from their farm strip.

Obviously, being sensible, I would want some refresher lessons with a current instructor but how nice it would be to find a setup like this.

Again, does a K13 (say) need a G-XXXX reg these days or is this only gliders newer than a certain date?

Also, what about a C of A.

It would be good........

[cats_five]

<snip>
Again, does a K13 (say) need a G-XXXX reg these days or is this only gliders newer than a certain date?

Also, what about a C of A.


K13s are not on the EASA annex 2 list so they need an EASA CoA, an ARC and a G-reg.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/ptf/Annex_II-25-Feb-2008.pdf

[cats_five]

That's one of the reasons why I dropped out - I can take anyone up as a passenger in a light aircraft without asking permission but not in a glider despite having a Bronze C and several hundred glider flilghts.

But who owns the glider? Most 2-seat gliders belong to clubs, so asid from anything else the club wants their 2-seaters available for instruction as and when needed.

Laws and Rules (2008) states:

7.5 Before carrying a club member in a glider, the pilot in charge must be authorised by his CFI and hold a Bronze badge or higher certificate and have at least 50 hours P1 on gliders.

Beyond that it's up to the individual CFI. In theory you are qualified to take passengers, but at the very least I expect the CFI would insist you are in current flying practise for the type of launch to be undertaken. To let your passenger have the front seat (the one with the good view!) you would almost certainly need an Instructor rating.

EASA Pilot Licensing will cause some changes, but it's not clear yet what those will be.

[snapper1]

If you haven't already done so, have a look at the thread, 'EASA regs' - just for a bit of light relief!

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

Laws and Rules (2008) states:


7.5 Before carrying a club member in a glider, the pilot in charge must be authorised by his CFI and hold a Bronze badge or higher certificate and have at least 50 hours P1 on gliders.

Beyond that it's up to the individual CFI. In theory you are qualified to take passengers, but at the very least I expect the CFI would insist you are in current flying practise for the type of launch to be undertaken. To let your passenger have the front seat (the one with the good view!) you would almost certainly need an Instructor rating.


Yes, but this assumes that you are flying from a BGA club!

What about if you buy your own glider and get towed up from your friend's farm strip?

Apart from the catch all of "endangering person or property with an aircraft" etc. I think I'm right in saying you don't need any certificate or anybody's permission.

I know that may change in the future.....

[rusty sparrow]

I do remember years ago hearing of some guys who used to fly off a hill using bungy launch - not as part of BGA. I think it was some where on the south coast.

If you can self operate a light aircraft from a farmers field, then why not a glider?

[Thoughtful_Flyer]

I think there is little doubt you can do this (at the moment!), it just seems strange that it hardly ever seems to happen!

I'm not in any way "anti" BGA clubs as such, I used to be a very active member of one and a regular visitor to several others. However there are a significant number of people who drop out for the reasons given by several posters on this thread. I'm one of them!

I could spend the next hour describing the frustrations that made me walk away but, to be honest, you will have heard them all before. I would much rather look forward and explore possibilities for getting going again in an setup that would suit me.

[ambidextrous]

Cut my teeth in a T31 Cadet in 1958 with the ATC(was it really that long ago!) followed by Silver 'C' in 1969 & a last flight in an Olympia 463 in 1972.
Then got sidetracked following the oil & gas industry offshore for the following 35 years until a refresher flight in a K-31 at Bicester in 2008.
Q-Does the BGA have an age limit for P1 solo in a glider in the UK, if so, what is it? (and yes I know I shouldn't even be thinking of doing it!)
with fraternal greetings,
ambi:ok:

[chrisN]

No age limit, it's on condition. 89 and 90 year olds have been known to be allowed solo after daily checks.

The legendary DP is still flying solo or PIC in his eighties (or was last year), and did a 500km flight in a lowish performance glider a few years ago.

Most cease solo earlier, by choice or at CFI's ruling.

Chris N.

[shortstripper]

Well I took the plunge and joined the Southdown Gliding Club at Parham yesterday. Only went to sign up but ended up flying as passenger for nearly two hours in a DG1000T (most impressive).

I last soloed a glider in 1989, so look forward to doing the same again soon. Quite a change from the fabric gliders I flew to these glass ones though!

Here's a couple of pictures from yesterday :)

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s308/ivanmanley/DSC00127.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s308/ivanmanley/DSC00123.jpg

SS

[kevmusic]

That is beautiful stuff, SS! :ok: Pure Merrie England flying.

[glider12000]

Some nice pics Shortstripper, and I hope to meet you at the launch point soon.

Should be around a fair bit for the Vintage Week to help out, and that is always a well attended event and always good to be at.

[IFMU]

Great pics. I was going to bring my camera today but forgot. It was a good day for local flying before the storms popped.

We have a vintage soaring meet June 27th through July 4th this year. Only bad thing is they kick my 1-35 out of its tiedown spot. Oh well.

Some photos of the last one here:
International Vintage Soaring Meet 2005 (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/images/shows/ivsm2005-1/html/index.htm)
and here:
International Vintage Soaring Meet 2005 (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/images/shows/ivsm2005-2/html/index.htm)

I did a little towing at the 2005 meet.

You can find more harris hill photos here:
Harris Hill Soaring - Photo Album and Graphics (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/photos.htm)

We have a contest July 19 - July 29 too. Another chance to get my 1-35 kicked out of its tiedown. But, it's a small price to be part of such a great club. Here is a contest picture from our home page:
http://harrishillsoaring.org/images/photos/highshot.jpg
-- IFMU

[Exaviator]

My first glider flight, a Kookaburra 1959, age 19

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2457/3558668816_562b632ce4_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3603/3558703744_a0041665be_m.jpg

My most recent age 69, my how things have changed............:D

[astir 8]

Welcome back from the Dark Side, Shortstripper! Still sorry you had to sell the Motor Tutor but Parham is an excellent place to fly gliders - The ridge in a good Northerly must be awesome.

[glider12000]

Astir 8 it`s always good fun to beat along the ridge. You`d be (along with anyone else) welcome to join us on a nice Northerly Ridge day!

[Rod1]

Some of you may wish to comment on this;

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/375241-flying-imc-out-cas-now-dangerous.html

Rod1
(ex glider pilot)

[mary meagher]

That was awesome weekend weather for the UK, wasn't it? Real headboiler, and a challenge for our local Interclub Competition, which was held at Hinton in the Hedges ....... (don't mention the parachutists!).

OUR TEAM WON THE DAY! SHENINGON GLIDING CLUB novice, on his very first cross country flying an elderly single Astir, made it to Hus Bos and Pittsfield Reservoir and back, well done Gavin! And the Intermediate and Pundit pilots from Shenners also got round. Many didn't.

Meanwhile, back at the club, visitors turning up to sample the sport, some used to fly in ATC, some are power pilots feeling the pinch and wondering how we go places without paying for fuel. . . .

Of course, if we get it wrong, we visit a farmer. I flew on Sunday with a nice chap from the US of A who used to fly that tin behemoth, the Schweitzer 233 or whatever, in the Napa Valley in California. Dare not go x-country, if you land out you get speared by a grapevine pole. We managed 56 minutes on a winch launch (cost £7) and didn't have to come down. Now I call THAT flying!

[snapper1]

Well Mary, it was great for sunbathing in Yorkshire although we did manage one contest day in the Yorkshire Inter-Club League. I hobbled down from Ruffirth to the first turn point at Burn Gliding Club but chickened out of trying for the next turn at Knarsborough and went back to Rufforth. The sky was a beautiful blue - all over! My first contest, so quite pleased that I managed to put some points on the board for my club.

Best story of the day was a land-out at Doncaster International Airport (AKA Robin Hood Airport). The pundits had been tasked through the Upton corridor but one ran out of height and asked ATC for use of their nice, under-used runway. ATC agreed. As the glider was on final he got a request to orbit to make way for a 737. Naturally ATC got the response, 'negative, FINAL' !!!:D

[mary meagher]

Snapper1, love that story! Did the 737 have to go round at Robin Hood?
Did the glider get out of his way after landing?

I went on a x-country once long ago from Aston Down to Great Yarmouth, wonderful downwind dash in a Pegasus; considered turning an oil rig as the cu was marching out to sea, chickened out, swanned up and down the beach, looking at North Denes airfield, where absolutely no activity was taking place. Not switched on enough to switch frequencies, decided it would be ok to land at that sleepy little strip.

When I rolled to a stop, not thinking to clear the runway, a red land rover roared up, 4 very upset chaps jumped out, not to welcome me, but to shove the glider out of the way, because a North Sea helicopter was coming in with only one engine, their first emergency of that year. Ooops.

[snapper1]

Mary,
I understand the 737 was not inconvenienced in any way.
The pilots of the (DG505) landed on the main runway and used the first available taxi-way. They stopped just short of the yellow line, got out and pulled the glider over the line. Don't know if/how much they were charged.
Quite what the ATCOs thought of it I don't know either. After all, they are somewhere over in Liverpool and couldn't see what was going on!:)

[Tankengine]

Just found this thread, don't usually look in "Private Flying" as my day job is in an airliner cockpit. Great to see!:ok:

2800 hrs, 1000k badge. Usually fly comps here in Oz in ASW28 [now my wife's] or my new ASG29.:} plus some instructing.

Re taking passengers, down here we usually give a passenger rating to Pilots some time after solo and off checks [we have a different C cert here - and no "bronze"]:)

See some of you on a flying field somewhere! :)

[IFMU]

Over the Elmira, NY area today:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/Aerowerk/Pawneebreak.jpg

[airwave45]

Just blundered into this too !
SilverC, BI, 1 Diamond.

Having been a tad busy actually making a scheckle for a while, have been starting to deeply feel the itch to do something with my life rather than wasting time at work.
I intend getting on a mission to get a full Diamond in 2010, maybe get towing endorsement to do some tugging to help out, maybe not, we never seem to be short of tuggies ? (not sure why anyone would actually _want_ to fly powered, pull the doofer out to go up, push the doofer in to go down . . in the words of the great man himself . "How hard can it be?")

It seems to be a recurring theme the club politics, to be fair all clubs in all walks suffer this. It's always cyclic, ignore them and get on with it. (often quite hard to do, I appreciate)

started out flying hanggliders, still the best flying I've ever done. Got a bit long in the tooth for that and went gliding (not quite old enough for golf at that point)

Have had some simply stunning flights as P2 with one of the other ABO members. it's like sitting in front of (insert Diety of choice here) watched amazed from the front as we went off "for a wee bimble" he then proceeded to spend the next 2 n a bit hours showing me how to recognise different types of wave, recognising where the good bits were and pointing things out I had never even noticed before, just talking from the back, chatting about what we were flying through letting me fly the whole time, came back to ABO and he told me that was my first 300 out of the way :D (was too, with quite a margin in there) sadly couldn't claim that as was P2 :{
Couldn't claim my second 300 either as I wasn't qualified XC at the time, despite profound and detailed explanations (if somewhat tounge in cheek) that I was actually "Local Soaring" the whole time (verified over several beers at the "wave bar")
And just to clear it up, it was "local Soaring" there was no point at which I was under glideslope to get back :ok:

Fun place to be with some really nice people. helpful and friendly. scheckles providing, I'll be there next summer not in the sandpit.

[shortstripper]

Some nice pics Shortstripper, and I hope to meet you at the launch point soon.

Should be around a fair bit for the Vintage Week to help out, and that is always a well attended event and always good to be at.

I hope to be there either Tuesday or Wednesday if you're about? Look for the tubby short ar$e with pfa wings on his beany hat (also has glider wings and was my "lucky" gliding hat in the 80's :rolleyes:)

SS

[TURIN]

At the risk of getting ridiculed,

Is this thread for all free flyers?

I.E. Hang-gliders & Paragliders included or should we flexwing, hedge-hopping bags of washing start our own thread? :ok:

Started in 85, on a Hiway Stubby. 18 years of happy memories, flying on three continents in and out of competitions, small XCs across the vales and peaks of England, Scotland, Wales, I of M and Ireland.

Hill, Winch and AeroTow (well in the US anyway) rated.

Happy days!:{

[longer ron]

Some Dodgy people on here... Hi Mary :) just kidding :p
ATC 'wings' with 644 GS at RAF Spitalgate in the summer of 69,solo in 21 lchs.
Joined 613 GS at Halton in 70/72 whilst i was apprentice there,got to dizzy heights of P2 (G1).
Didnt fly for 11 yrs (confidence crisis) but resoloed in zimbabwe...21 lchs again (spooky)...could have soloed earlier but they tried to teach me to thermal :eek:(oh how they had laughed at my log book - 330 lchs but only 25hrs TT !!).eventually got the hang of staying up and poled around in Skylark 3b,once climbing to 10,500' agl in a thermal (no baro of course ****)
Back here had std libelle and lots of x/c out of various clubs,i see from my log book that my last solo was 3h 17m in the YS53 in '96.
I really miss it

[IFMU]

The vintage meet is going on at Harris Hill. Last Wednesday I went up to fly a little, and I had to chuck my 1-35 in the box to make room for all the guests. Flew it one more time first. Plus took a buddy in our brand new ASK 21, shared a thermal with this beautiful ASK13, freshly restored. Great evening.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/Aerowerk/ASK13and21half.jpg

Not the best camera, my buddy had a cellphone and that was all. But check out the reflection of the -13 in the wing of the -21.

-- IFMU

[glider12000]

SS

I`m duty pilot on tuesday and wednesday so should be about :)

[hightower1986]

I have just completed my PPL in New Zealand and so have an ICAO licence and have had 2 glider flights so far, whilst I am saving money again I thought about taking gliding a little further to help the whole flying mentality going and it seems like good fun.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar position or knows how many hours etc can count towards the gliding and vice versa and any other rules with exams and medical would be great but cant find it anywhere on the net.
thanks

[cats_five]

Have you checked this?

Gliding New Zealand - (http://www.gliding.co.nz/training/syllabus)

[ProfChrisReed]

Assuming you're in New Zealand, the place to ask is the New Zealand Gliding Association http:///www.gliding.co.nz (http://www.gliding.co.nz/). This sets out the training syllabus.

A brief look at their site suggests that the system is similar to that of the BGA, with which I am familiar. If so, there are likely to be almost no minimum hours requirements to achieve the "licence". Gliding training works on the basis that you're approved for each stage when you're ready, whether that takes 1 hour or 100 hours.

In the UK system there are only two hours requirements that I'm aware of: to achieve your Bronze badge (one of the prerequisites to solo cross-country flying) you need either 50 solo launches or 10 hours/20 launches; and to carry passengers you need a minimum of 50 solo hours plus sign of from the Chief Flying Instructor at your club (or whichever club you want to do this, though in practice many clubs require a Basic Instructor rating to carry passengers).

From my limited experience as a Basic Instructor, PPLs with good handling skills (i.e. those who fly the aircraft, rather than just "driving" it) make rapid progress to solo. Thereafter the soaring, navigation and field landing skills are quite different to flying power, so you progress at the same pace as others depending on ability and application.

[hightower1986]

Yeah good point im back in the Uk now, so best to change me loaction thingy too! A lot to be said for gliding me thinks, I just like the winch launches to be honest oh and the aircraft being about £30 an hour!

[astir 8]

So where in the UK?

If you've a PPL you should progress fairly quickly to solo - there's no fixed hours requirement, its all done on ability/consistency (just a hint, those funny pedal things on the floor need to be moved in conjunction with the stick and the "window" is for looking for other aircraft)


Google "British Gliding Association" and most info on gliding should be revealed, including club locator. :ok:

[hightower1986]

:zzz: yes thanks thats all Ive heard so far from glider pilots "this is proper flying" and "do you know what the rudder is" yes thanks im well aware! do you know what spending money is!?! if not try powered flight!:}

[astir 8]

OK, point taken. :) so where do you want to glide then.

[cats_five]

The closest gliding site might not be the best for you, depending on when they offer instructional flying and when you can get along. Some are 7-day per week operations, some are weekend only, some have more challenging sites than others.

IMHO tzhe real fun (and challenge) of gliding starts once you are allowed to start flying XC (e.g. out of glide range of the launch site) and also when you can visit other clubs. My club would let members hire a single-seat club glider for a week for an expedition (subject obviously to CFI's approval) and it's a mind-expanding thing to do. It tends to be a waistline-expanding thing as well, along with being a wallet-shrinking thing.

But however much or little gliding you do, and however far to take it, here's hoping you have a great time. Do be prepared for a lot of standing around on gliding fields though... Gliding clubs only manage to run as cheaply as they do (compared to power flying) because we help each other. There might be a paid instructor at work but the wing man and signaller will be ordinary club members, and the winch driver / tug driver might well be as well, all doing their bit to get you safely (we hope!) into the sky. There is also the fun of collecting a glider from a landout... :)

[flying_highover]

Hi,

This one goes out to existing tug pilots.

I'm looking for advice on getting in on it. I've wanted to do it for a while now partly out of fun and love for gliding and also for building hours.

I've done about 20lchs 7yrs ago. Limited experience I know. I got solo on my 7th hour of PPL. I'm not a bad pilot I have to say but my experience is limited I know.

What would your advice be about approaching my local club or indeed any club? I've been thinking about it. I'm thinking of offering myself as a stand-in pilot, there for whenever weather is good and people want to glide but no tugger. And maybe offering to pay any expenses in showing me how to tug...

Any advice would be really appreciated!
Thanks.

[cats_five]

Suggest you start by reading the BGA guidance on aerotowing:

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clubmanagement/documents/aerotownotes.pdf

However I did find the following near the beginning:

"It is preferred that tug pilots are and remain current as glider pilots, or better still, instructors."

Also the tug at my club (and many others) is a taildragger, so the tug pilots need to be appropriately qualified. Since it's a Pawnee there is no chance of using it for a conversion!

(sorry for that being in a large font!)

[flying_highover]

That's a great document.

Thanks for that, will give it a read...

I've flown a little in a dailtragger... I notice you need to kick in with the rudder a bit more than otherwise when applying power. The run on take off and landing needs a fair bit more concentration too.

[shortstripper]

I've flown a little in a dailtragger... I notice you need to kick in with the rudder a bit more than otherwise when applying power. The run on take off and landing needs a fair bit more concentration too.

Better get ready to duck! ;)

SS

[GAZSD]

Shortstripper

Glad to see you're getting back to proper flying again after the loss of your T31M last year. You still looking for wood and fabric restoration work?

Hope so, drop me a line, better still make sure the Vintage Club have your details too, when you get your BGA inspectors ticket

Catch you soon

GAZSD

[IFMU]

A new site for Harris Hill Soaring pics:
Harris Hill Soaring Photo Gallery - Home (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/coppermine/)

Some of the pics are old but there is also a couple brand new pages from IVSM (international vintage soaring meet) 2009.

-- IFMU

[MarkerInbound]

Just found this thread. Cargo pilot (unemployed at present), FAA ATP blah blah blah, type ratings in blah blah blah, COMM glider and CFIG, silver badge. I've been flying with Texas Soaring south of Dallas for almost 20 years. I was lured into the sport under false premises. At that time, TSA's insurance had very high tailwheel time requirements. In all that blah blah blah is 4000+ hours tailwheel time which I'm willing to bet would meet anyone's insurance requirements. I told them it was almost all multiengine tailwheel time and when things started to go sideways, I was used to powering the plane straight along with rudder and they said it didn't matter, the insurance just said tailwheel time. So I've got about 3 times as much time towing as in the gliders. Done some winches outside of Auckland, NZ and a bit of ridge in Hawaii.

We had students up almost 9000 feet AGL yesterday.

[glider12000]

Any Glider Pruners at the Inter-University comp at Pocklington??

For anyone else that is at or has been at University then feel free to join us!

Get in contact with your respective University Club for more details!

[MLS-12D]

I originally learned to fly in gliders and have about 130 hours logged. I completed two legs of the Silver C prior to obtaining my license but then made the fatal decision to learn powered flight so that I could fly the tow plane. Since then I am really a propellor head, although I too see myself as a glider pilot first.

What would your advice be about approaching my local club or indeed any club? I've been thinking about it. I'm thinking of offering myself as a stand-in pilot, there for whenever weather is good and people want to glide but no tugger. And maybe offering to pay any expenses in showing me how to tug...IIRC, the current issue of one of the GA magazines (don't remember which one, sorry) has a fairly detailed article on this topic. I just skimmed it at the shop but it looked fairly decent.

As cats_five noted, most clubs - though not all - operate tailwheel tugs. They will not typically teach would-be pilots how to fly tailwheel, and you will be probably expected to have a certain number of tailwheel hours logged before you will be accepted as a trainee tug pilot. At my club it used to be 10 hours total, five hours solo. I believe we increased those minima after we switched to a Pawnee (the Cadillac of towplanes!) ... not that the Pawnee is a difficult aircraft to fly.

I know a few tug pilots who do not soar, but there is no real doubt in my mind that the best tug pilots also fly sailplanes.

[MLS-12D]

IIRC, the current issue of one of the GA magazines (don't remember which one, sorry) has a fairly detailed article on this topic.
Here is the reference: Colin Goodwin, “What’s Involved in Glider Tugging”, June 2009 Pilot, pages 36-41.

Speaking of soaring: I was sorry to learn that Jean-Pierre Aguilar and Michel Fache were killed last Saturday, on the final day of the Open CFM de Vol à Voile – Barcelonnette 2009. Both were extremely experienced pilots who gave a lot to the sport.

[IFMU]

Not much soaring lately. My ship has been in the box rather than tied out, as we had a vintage soaring meet and a contest 3 weeks after. They needed my spot. Plus I have been trying to finish my FAA instrument rating. Yesterday however I talked my wife into letting me take my two boys. The older boy has been eager to get into the ASK21, as he has only been in the 2-33. Took him up first. The younger boy went for his first ride earlier in the summer. We were in the back of a Schweizer 2-32, a 3-place sailplane. That turned out to be a bit of a bust, as I didn't realize the canopy skirt took out some more of the view as compared to canopy open. I wish I had propped him up with cusions a little better so he could see. But he did great in the back of the 21, holding his 3 stuffed animals. When we cleared the edge of the ridge he let out a "wow!!!" and it was all good from there. Not much of a soaring day but I would trade that day for any 3 great solo days.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/Aerowerk/3boysonthe21.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa72/Aerowerk/MKC2ask21.jpg

-- IFMU

[MartinCh]

This is my first solo, K21. Would have shaved for the picture if I knew I'd be flying solo today (Sunday 9th). I started gliding with Ulster GC. I didn't get to fly often due to crazy work rotas, Irish weather, transportation hassle and weekend only (pretty much) instructing.

Flown K13, K21, DG505 (once) and G103. If it wasn't for my intensive gliding 'holidays' flying old Twin Astir, I'd be far from solo now. Many thanks to all instructors at UGC, namely Brian, Ted and Phil and Robert in Aeroclub Prievidza (organiser of WGC 2010!!), all folks of Queens Uni GC as well. Also grateful for nice pics taken by Kerry.

I didn't want to post 'my credentials' (as if there are any..) until I went solo, since I could then talk about being glider pilot, logging some P1 time.
I'm already dreaming of places far away with gorgeous nature, thermals, wave. It's all quite far from my current skill level, though. Solo is a licence to learn, so it is.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs130.snc1/5568_113507008998_704998998_2303840_5234823_n.jpg

[rodthesod]

Mainly RAFGSA flying. First flight T21 Swinderby 1967 when a frustrated Vulcan co-pilot. Silver C 30 days later in K8.
Gold C, 2 Diamonds, Full Cat.
Last flight (bar a few) ASW17 500k triangle from Bicester 1976.
Tug Pilot c1000 hours mainly ag Chipmunks at Bicester.

Now retired, the only times I get airborne are when my 14m F-One Bandit kite hauls my 17 stone bulk out of the water. Of all my flying, including RAF military, airline and Rothman's Pitts, it is the Halcyon Days of my Bicester gliding that I miss most. I am forever grateful to the likes of Dickie Feakes, 'Black' Jack Harrison and John Dellafield for introducing me to the wonderful world of gliding.

Thank you.

[oversteer]

Could anyone advise of the cost of running and insuring a glider?

I was thinking something like a Pegase. Am hopeful to complete my Silver this year and by next season I should have 40-50 hours P1; what sort of glider is suitable for that experience? Say up to £20k. Am I better looking at shares instead?

[gpn01]

Lovely pics IFMU, if we could do that in the UK I'd still be gliding! :ugh:


What can't you do in UK?

[Pegpilot]

Oversteer

I'm a Peg owner and currently pay about £750 per year for insurance, but that's with 480 hours and a Basic Instructor Rating (but add back in a loading for a rather silly and expensive ground handling accident a couple of years ago). Annual inspection and ARC should cost around a couple of hundred quid or so a year, and then there's the trailer parking fee of between £100 and £300 depending where you fly from.

Insofar as flying a Peg is concerned, as long as your speed control on approach is good there's no reason why a Pegase or ASW19 should be beyond your competence, but check with your CFI and try and fly a club one somewhere (eg Gransden Lodge) before you commit. My former syndicate partner had much less experience than me and coped quite adequately with ours.

Caught me on a good day, as I did my first 300km in 4 years on Saturday, and shaved 45 minutes off my best time for the distance :ok:

Cheers

Pegpilot

[hoodie]

This is my first solo, K21.

Well done, That Man! :D You didn't have plans to spend money on anything else, now, did you? :E

[mary meagher]

Hello, Peg pilot, and Oversteer!

The Pegase is an excellent glider. It has no vices. It should have a forward airtow hook and a winch hook in the wheelbox. Don't consider any glider without a forward airtow hook, if you can help it, it may save your bacon more than once.......

But I recommend, Oversteer, at your present level, that you fly your club machines; hopefully you can get weekday availability; weekends the club gliders may be in great demand. In that case, for experience on type, be willing to fly in the morning, and bring it back for the person who intends to use it for a X-country or a badge flight. (if you ever don't bring it back when you promised, don't expect to be forgiven!)

When you have your silver and a few X-countries under your belt, sit in different gliders to see if they fit your butt, and have enough headroom.
I spent 8 hours and 53 minutes sitting in my peg, doing a 500. ( Not very fast, but got round.) And you might plan to have oxygen installed, for that trip to Aboyne.

Then see if any LS4 or Pegasus or ASW19 or well tried and tested glider with no vices is owned by a syndicate who would possibly welcome you to help share the bills. Especially if you promise to retrieve your partners when they land out ........

Buying one on your own nearly always results in underutilisation. Lots of yachts sit at the dock and never move.

[glider12000]

Inter University Flying Comp...This was at Pocklington.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs172.snc1/6455_251227310092_663125092_8261003_1516993_n.jpg The Ka8 on the winch queue..with a fantastic sky...

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs192.snc1/6455_251227315092_663125092_8261004_3259480_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs192.snc1/6455_251227325092_663125092_8261006_3299720_n.jpg Me in the Ka8.. some good altitude..

I had a particularly good week, went from 9 solos to Bronze with my XC Endorsement completed and a Silver height... Plus my university won the Progression Competition

[IFMU]

Nice to see some more soaring pics on this thread.

Congratulations on your solo MartinCh. The ASK21 is a nice machine to fly. They don't let us solo it on the hill until we have at least a private rating and a little time. Our primary trainers are the Schweizer 2-33's. A great machine in its own right, though many sneer at them. Very low cost, very strong and forgiving, easy to repair. The -21 is a pretty nice all around club ship though. We have 3 of them.

Thanks for the kind words cjboy. If you were to move over here to take up gliding again you would not be the only Englishman in the club!

Buying one on your own nearly always results in underutilisation. Lots of yachts sit at the dock and never move.
Very true. I seem to fly mine less than 20 hours/year. The balance of my soaring is in club ships, taking somebody else in a 2-place. I can't justify owning a glider financially when I can rent a club ASK-21 for $9/hour, or a 1-26/1-34/2-33 for $6/hour and a $23 tow. But, when it is a great day, and I actually get time to go, I don't have to wait, don't have to share, I just go and fly.

glider12000, great photos. Glad you had a great week, get as many of them as you can now in case work/family etc makes it harder later.

-- IFMU

[airwave45]

And you might plan to have oxygen installed, for that trip to Aboyne.


where scenes like this (below)
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa90/airwave_photo/royw.jpg
Lead to this
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa90/airwave_photo/aboyne260403033.jpg
which leads to this . . .
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa90/airwave_photo/aboyne170403013.jpg

It's just the best way to spend the weekend, with the best people.
(we even allow "full timers" who do it as a day job on the airfield at the weekends)

Aboyne is a fairly magical place, hope to see you up there (may even show you where to get the O2 :ok:)

middle piccie looks for all the world like a "photoshop" job, it's actually taken with a Sony compact, held above my head and forced flash _on_.

ABO, only place in the UK you can do a 300k triangle as a "local soaring" flight . :) and where you usually end up with a "diamond" before you can go XC . . .

[Bird-watcher]

Calling any PPRUNE glider pilots in Scotland...

I'm a glider pilot who's coming to Scotland for a year, to do a postgrad course at uni. I'll be joining Portmoak and, since I'm not current, I have some refresher flying booked in there when I arrive later this month.

I also hope to visit as many of the Scottish gliding clubs during the year as I can, and would love to hear from any glider pilots flying in Scotland with any tips, advice, suggestions to impart - please feel free to PM me.

Apologies for brief diversion from main thread, and ta very much

Bird-watcher

PS: Those wave pix look just fantastic... Can't wait!

[ProfChrisReed]

I'd echo Mary Meagher's comments about trying as many types as possible before buying. The Pegase is a very good glider, handles well, has no real vices except perhaps that it's rather sensitive on the elevator when lanching and landing (PIOs on early flights are commonplace). However, I just don't enjoy flying them. If you had the same reaction, you'd be sorry you bought one!

My suggestion for someone just finishing their Silver would be to find an insurance share for a year if they can. That will tell you (a) how much flying you might be likely to do, and (b) how many times you would have flown but it wasn't your turn in the glider. From that you can work out whether to buy a share or buy your own.

Visit other clubs and fly their single seaters so you have points of comparison when seeking to buy.

I suspect PegPilot's costs for annual inspection and renewal are on the low side - I'd budget £400 and be pleased if there was change. Say £1,200 a year before you fly it, plus club subscription and trailer parking fee.

[glider12000]

Bird Watcher, Edinburgh Uni GC flies from Portmoak..why not give them a look up?

[low'n'fast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjboy
Lovely pics IFMU, if we could do that in the UK I'd still be gliding!


What can't you do in UK?
Take the kids for a jolly, unless you are an instructor, or perhaps in some special "circle of trust" which is only open to the few....

Sounds like you are flying at the wrong club! I have flown many friends and family with no Instructor rating. Just needed a check flight to get it signed off. Easy, just part of the club rules.

Some smaller clubs seem to have these rules to make sure they get new Basic Instructors coming through.

[gpn01]

Sounds like you are flying at the wrong club! I have flown many friends and family with no Instructor rating. Just needed a check flight to get it signed off. Easy, just part of the club rules.

Some smaller clubs seem to have these rules to make sure they get new Basic Instructors coming through.

Ditto, at my club you need to demonstrate safety/competence but don't need an instructor rating. I think at some clubs you'll find they do mandate 'instructor only' rules simply to avoid confrontation with some individuals whose opinions of their capability is greater than their actual ability.

[RatherBeFlying]

Worked around a couple blue holes North of the home field and got stuck into cloud streets in the general direction of first turnpoint. Rounded that, headed back to the cu, first dying, second one taking me up to 6000' (after letting me examine possible fields:uhoh:) and happily trucked back South to find the streets veering off into Class C:mad: and blue on the way home:{ -- well there were itty bitty puffs every 20 km or so which worked quite well and managed to hopscotch from one airfield to the next for most of the way. A bit warm for trailer retrieves and every bit closer to home reduces the air retrieve cost. Got to a busy field during a traffic lull -- the freq was uncharacteristically quiet and there was no lift to be found; so time for my first glider landing on pavement. Nice touchdown and rollout, but the glider just kept rolling and rolling, even with double panel spoilers out. But the runway was long and eventually attempted a turnoff to the grass between the lights.

A few folks turned out and were quite helpful in pulling the glider to a spot on the ramp where it was out of the way. And there was no shortage of volunteers to position the glider on the runway when the towplane showed up:ok:

The employees and C-152 / C-172 students came out for cockpit tours.

Oh yes, there was a bit of noise from the tail skid on take off that took me a while to catch on to;)

Well, that's three of the fields North of home that I've landed on. Farther North gets more expensive, but there's local tows available if they will fit you in. Another member did his 50 km. the same day and chose to land instead of flying back. He had to call for an expensive retrieve, but got a bit of a reduction as the towplane picked me up on the way back.

[727gm]

Furloughed Int'l Cargo pilot in California.......440 glider hours, 1260 flights (lots of winch launch patterns) ......... Aerotow, winch, auto, self-launch ........CFIG.......Tow pilot - VG-2150, CE-182, MXT-7, A-9.........I have been to 25000+ a few times, ~20 years ago in wave (Calif. City, CA).......One thing about soaring sites - many don't fly anywhere other than the home field, and for the traveling enthusiast, it's curious to see that what is considered normal ops at one field - "the way it's done", is absolutely verboten at another field; AND vice-versa..........

[Con Air]

Hi to all you glider types

I was a member at Essex Gliding Club based at North Weald and Ridgewell.

Personal circumstances (work mainly) made me let it go about 3 yrs ago. A real shame as I was just about to complete by BI course.

Flew various types and had a half share in an ASW 15 (JDR). I'd be interested if anyone knows where JDR is now.

longest flight 6 3/4 hours - pissed like a donkey when I go back !:(

Now just started powered flying. Keep wanting to turn when we fly through lift, but my instructor won't let me :=

[mary meagher]

Actually, I think that is a terrible idea. If they are under ten, they will be bored, and probably throw up.

If they are between ten and fourteen, they will want to learn, and still be too young to solo, and YOU are the wrong one to teach them!

If they are over 14, under 21, as above. Though probably more interested in the opposite sex by this time. Joining a youngster's group at your local club (like ours at Shenington) gives them friends and kindred spirits, and fully qualified instructors. I certainly would not like any child of mine to fly in a glider with an unqualified person. And simply being a solo pilot with a basic rating leaves a lot of room for problems. It is not as easy as flying in a l52 or a warrior.

If your wife/girlfriend wants to fly with you, in a glider, once again you will probably put her off for life. Same result as for the under tens.

[chrisN]

Zilly, if you go to G-INFO, the CAA database, you can find the current owner of G-CJDR.

GINFO Database Search | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1)


I don't know who has it, don't recognise the name. It is based in Kent.


You may recall me at North Weald and Ridgewell.

Chris N.

[sollas]

I glide at deeside gliding club at aboyne. Great site, haven't done as much in the past year as I would have liked to. Just working towards bronze but have a ppl.

Sunday sees the start of the UK mountain soaring championships, no doubt there will be pictures and info on the web site if your interested to find out how it's going. Click the UKMSC link on www.deesideglidingclub.co.uk (http://www.deesideglidingclub.co.uk)

happy soaring :ok:

[fisbangwollop]

Sollas...many happy hours spent flying my Pilatus b4 in that neck of the woods.......mainly at Feshiebridge...one of the most exciting places to fly you could find.......great hill lift, especially once you move round into the bowl...a big decision to make though from the front hill to the back...will I have enough height on to make the bowl?????.......good thermals on nice sunny days popping of the ridges and cracking wave in the right conditions!!.........did my Silver duration 5 hours flying the ridge in a snow storm one April many moons ago...... sold the B4 about 20 years ago and took up sailing instead but now got a hanckering to get back flying and convert my 300 hours P1 into an NPPL...:cool::cool::cool:

[sollas]

fisbangwollop, glad to hear you had so much fun gliding.

We have a good selection of club gliders, 3 puchacz, 1 junior, 1 asw 19 and a discus, and if your in our neck of the woods a reasonably priced bar and some bunk rooms if your tempted to get back into gliding or fancy a weekend away to try it again. :)

I think you get 10% of your P1 time upto a maximum of 10 hours towards your ppl, not quite as much off the time as in days gone by with having your silver c. Its all in LASORS

Best of luck if your go for it.

sollas

[IFMU]

Actually, I think that is a terrible idea. If they are under ten, they will be bored, and probably throw up.
I can't say I agree with this! I think it is important to ease into it, pick the right day, and not stay up for hours. I think it is also a very important part of the brainwashing.

If they are between ten and fourteen, they will want to learn, and still be too young to solo, and YOU are the wrong one to teach them!
We start our juniors between 12 and 13, so they can solo at 14.

If they are over 14, under 21, as above. Though probably more interested in the opposite sex by this time. Joining a youngster's group at your local club (like ours at Shenington) gives them friends and kindred spirits, and fully qualified instructors.
Amen to that! Plus having gliders as an interest is likely to keep them out of more troublesome interests. Lots of good role models at the glider club.

If your wife/girlfriend wants to fly with you, in a glider, once again you will probably put her off for life.
Here in the states, at least from my experience, your girlfriend will fly with you but your wife won't. Even if they are the same person separated only by time.

Same result as for the under tens.
Not my experience at all, either with my own kids or other people's kids.

-- IFMU

[MartinCh]

IFMU, Mary probably means 'too long ahead of being able to solo' as in the UK it's 2 years later, 16. I guess the rest depends on individuals and as you say, 'brainwashing' :)

EDIT as reply for IFMU's post below: Well, and Australia, 15yo to solo. NZ should be 16 these days (found some bits of info possibly from past, that NZ CAA allowed under 16 solo in the past, don't bother too much about it). I get to do more research on various flying in various countries, so I see it more. There were some keen youngsters in the past who were good enough to fly solo so they soloed on their hols in Australia etc.

[IFMU]

MartinCh,

Thanks, did not realize it was 16 to solo a glider in the UK. Here we can solo a glider at 14, power at 16. Doesn't mean it makes sense here in the US, but it does seem to work ok.

-- IFMU

[IFMU]

My first real rope break today. Was flying with my 8 year old son in the back. A bit windy. On the second flight the rope busted just before the edge of the ridge, we were about 100'. We coasted over, figured I was in the emergency field. Nice thing about harris hill, you get over the edge then you have an immediate 800' below to the valley and the emergency field. The winds had shifted enough from west to northwest that I was able to climb up about 600' and make a landing. My 8 year old thought it was great and has the busted weak link rope as a souvenir.

-- IFMU

[RatherBeFlying]

Nice bit of flying IFMU -- can we call that a low save:E

One of our members recently lost the rope not very far above 100' over flat country and bent the glider getting back.

We are not at all sure what happened, but the suggestion not to fiddle with the rudder pedal adjustment when low on tow has been made:eek:

[Fantome]

Many glider pilots would be familiar with the excellent 'Accidents Happen',
by Ann Welch. If they are not, it should be put on the must read list without delay. Typical of her reporting is the one she included about a very lucky glider pilot.

It has to do with a 3 glider X-country tow in Jugoslavia. Three gliders behind three PO2s.
They were flying close together because the Jugoslav pilots enjoyed flying in close formation. (Their aeroplanes were smaller than the gliders). Shortly after take-off the middle glider, piloted by a Swiss, started to fly in a most erratic manner. This was unexpected because he was known to be a most competent pilot.Ann and the third glider pilot, on either side of the Swiss, watched the performance warily, ready to release if the collision risk became too high.

The Swiss fellow's glider continued to be flown as if the man were inebriated.
Arriving overhead their destination,the Swiss released, opened his airbrakes and went rapidly down, while the others released and stayed up in the evening sunshine as long as they could.

What had happened was that shortly after take-off the Swiss pilot had decided to have a smoke (permitted in fuelless gliders), but his box of non-safety matches had burst into flames and not surprisingly he had dropped them. The ball of fire disappeared out of reach under his plywood seat where the control cables lay.
Thoroughly alarmed in his wooden glider the pilot wondered whether to release and land in the unsafe looking country below, jump out by parachute before this too caught alight, or try somehow to extinguish the fire.

He kept feeling the base of the control column to see if it was getting warm, and wriggling about in his seat to extinguish any hot spots his parachute might be acquiring. During one of these body shifts both bottom seat harness straps came free, charred right through. None of this improved his formation flying capability.

Becoming desperate, he suddenly remembered that he had a bag of plums in his pocket. Laboriously he wrung out the meagre juice from each plum above where he hoped its dribbles would do most good. Not any too soon did the welcoming home airfield appear, with the Swiss pilot losing no time at all in getting back to terra firma.

It turned out that for the last minutes of his flight, there had, in fact, been no problem. The fire had burnt through the bottom of the fuselage and fallen out.
The Jugoslavs thought it was hilarious.

[glide69]

Just joined SGC!!

[vinavia]

+1 glider pilot:)
Joined at the end of 2014, first solo flight at the middle of 2015.
EXYrlNbX3SQ

[3wheels]

Nice to see the Blanik is still flying in Ukraine...loved instructing on it.

[India Four Two]

I miss the Blanik very much. I spent many happy hours in the back seat, instructing students and introducing them to wave-flying.

I much preferred flying from the back seat. Better stick-geometry and more room, although laterally, it was like wearing "blinkers".

I always found the front stick too tall and I use to encourage my students to hold the stick at or below the bottom of the hand grip, so that they could brace their forearms on their thighs, to prevent PIOs on take off.

In the 70s, I was in a club that had an IS-28B2 Lark. It was interesting to see, during some "owner maintenance" (ahem!), that the manufacturer, ICA Brasov, had copied the Blanik's control geometry exactly.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

One of the first aircraft I flew was a Blanik; that and a T21 'Barge'. Both were at Nympsfield in the glorious summer of 1976 on a week's gliding course.

Joined Derby & Lancs when we got home. Got lots of tractor time.

Joined LAC at Barton in '78. Had a PPL and a Chippy share by '79! Never looked back!

[vinavia]

Nice to see the Blanik is still flying in Ukraine...loved instructing on it.
Yes, we are still flying on Blaniks. All the training flights are carried on only on them, pilots who have passed the training course can also fly on Jantar Standart 3 or LAK-12 (there are few of them left in Ukraine) .

Thanks for comments, it's quite an interesting observation! I will try to do this during my next flight.