View Full Version : CSFF refreeze 737 NG
stendec
7th Jan 2009, 12:03
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii356/vincentlerins/ice2yu3.png
Is it common for CSFF to refreeze this way?
Callsign Kilo
7th Jan 2009, 15:33
By what to you mean refreeze?
Could it just be moisture which has refrozen after the hold over time has exceeded? Assuming that the NEI / CSFF has been de-iced.
just.n.av8r
8th Jan 2009, 13:38
The aircraft in the picture was not de-iced.
How can you tell?
Swedish Steve
8th Jan 2009, 16:33
Assuming that the NEI / CSFF has been de-iced.
All right I give in. What is NEI/CSFF when its at home?
spannerhead
8th Jan 2009, 16:41
Thanks Steve, I didn't want to be the first to ask what the hell they're talking about. I'll be the second....What the hell are you all talking about??
Non-environmental ice and Cold Soak Fuel Frost - plenty here and Google in search.
CaptainSandL
8th Jan 2009, 19:44
What is NEI/CSFF when its at home?
Info here.... (http://www.b737.org.uk/fuel.htm#Fuel_Temperature)
RYR-738-JOCKEY
9th Jan 2009, 01:11
Never seen NEI/CSFF like this.
Just to expand abit; The NG's got a completely new wing with wingtanks closer to the surface making them prone to NEI/CSFF. We have an SOP saying plan to land with max 5 tons if temp is below 10C at dest. But from experience it's the combination of fuel temp/time in the cruise (cooling the fuel), relative humidity AND below 10C and of course turn around time that might create this ice.
Lets say you cruise for two hours and land with 6 tons, dew point/temp is 6/9...then you'll get a lot of ice even if it's Cavok.
Well, back to the picture...what puzzles me is how the ice seems to run like water towards the fuselage. This has clearly not been created in the air because the speed of the air would have "pulled" it parallel to the movement of aircraft.. I'm just wondering if this is actually deice fluid, frozen onto the wing. Might happen if someone decides to put on a coat to prevent frost next morning. This is done to ensure ontime departures, but in my view is a complete waste of fluid. I dunno the cost of not being ontime, but generally from my experience it has been done too early, requiring a new deice, or simply uneccesary...and I know the price of the fluid normally creates a loss for that leg.
Anyways, this is an NG problem. I like the aircraft, but this problem is solely down to Boeing design fault.
Golden Rivet
9th Jan 2009, 08:07
Just to expand abit; The NG's got a completely new wing with wingtanks closer to the surface making them prone to NEI/CSFF
The top surface of the wing is the top surface of the tank.....:confused:
Swedish Steve
9th Jan 2009, 10:55
OK so I have worked in Sweden for 20 years, and deiced thousands of aircraft.
I have never seen the abbreviation CSFF before, or heard the expression. So I suppose it is a Boeing NG phrase, as I have managed to miss that aircraft so far.
But looking at the original photo, I can't see that being frost. It looks like deicing fluid that has frozen on the wing, perhaps being applied long before departure as RYR 738 said.