NATS - Are You Happy?

[Potless]

Yesterday I listened to the red barons audio message to his NATS followers and have to admit that I was rather surprised at what he said.

1: He apparently believes that there is no split in the workforce (that one I'm not too sure about).
2: He doesn't believe (I wish I could remember his exact words) that there is any unhappiness amongst the troops.

Simple question, are you at a happy unit.

To give you a clue how happy we are at my unit, I've re-registered under a new pseudonym just in case somebody at work recognises my usual pseudonym.

[Dan Dare]

What plane of existence does RB inhabit? I've never known an unhappier nats and thats before the masses realise how screwed over they have just been.

In his defence though, there is nothing like a crap manager to polarise the staff in to a common, oposing view = team building (do you think this was his plan all along?)

[Standard Noise]

Unhappier than being outside NATS, personally yes, can't speak for the rest of my mob.

Potless, Not good at the Ice Station then? New boss not brought joy and rapture to the unit?

[ayrprox]

Yep, thoroughly p***ed off! here, people are starting to give up those extra things they no longer see as either worth the money, or worth the time it takes them to do. things like LCE, OJTI validations over and above unit minimum. we are reaching the end of our tether. Oh and to top it off, we allegedly move into the brand new sports centre they've built opposite THIS year, but still no timetable as to when we are meant to train on the new stuff they are putting in, or to train on the 15 year old radar software they are putting in. Still, as long as the ocean move in on time, thats the place officially open!. Tea and bonuses all round!!

Is it me?, or is the idea of a bonus culture in a safety based enivironment a bad idea??

[man friday]

worked for serco before being tuped over to nats 3 years ago...

bring back serco all is forgiven..with nats it seems to be all give and take, we keep giving and they keep taking.

were running one controller down on the union /management agreement, assistants are becoming an endangered species, and the whole unit runs soley on the goodwill of the staff to have their rosters chsnged at a few days notice,or cover for sickness.

4 highly experienced controllers are due to retire within 14 months,more than a third of our compliment,the first in possibly 5 months, and there is no sign of a replacement program.

in my youth air traffic used to be about providing a safe and expeditious service, not bean counting and buzz word bollox initiatives.

[Gonzo]

To answer the title......yes.

I do a job I dearly love.
Work with great people.
I cannot remember a day where I didn't have fun.
I get paid a good salary.
I get a good amount of time off/leave.
I am not forced into any extra work.

Yes, of course I feel sad for our ATSAs who have been increasingly marginalised, and NATS have lost a great deal of ATC knowledge by not utilising them to the fullest extent. There are concerns and issues, of course - as with any job - but yes, I am happy.

[kinglouis]

no... not happy at all.
NATS has got so bad in the last couple of years, cheers mister barron and your arsehole managers.

[anotherthing]

I'll second Gonzo's post.

Having NATS as a second career, I can appreciate the fact that it is a very good company to work for.

However, although I am happy overall, I honestly believe that the company has become more divided over the past few years...

The move of TC down to Swanwick has done nothing to enhance relations, altohugh it makes good business sense being together.

Swanwick being near CTC has caused more ructions because operational staff visit CTC fairly regularly and come away with the perception that it is overbourne with staff.

Throw in Banding (I think that units should be paid at different levels, but believe the banding we have at the moment is unfair to some units); the recent pensions, the growth of management posts, the continued employment of people who have failed in projects etc, and you get quite a bit of material for people to be unhappy with.


Potless - in reference to your point 2 - Mr Barron inferred that any unhappiness within NATS staff was caused by the UK economic situation and not to do with what is happening to NATS!

I do think NATS is a good company to work for, but it is slowly being eroded... we as a workforce need to try to pull together to make sure that Ts & Cs etc are not degraded even more...

[atcomarkingtime]

YES!!! I follow GONZO's words!!! I enjoy my job....I have fun everyday....I think they pay us ok.....I think i get lots of time off (having had a chat with my dad last week - he has a proper job working Mon-Sat!!!).
It is the only job I have ever had....and been doing it for alomost 17years now. But i always seem to think its the NATS people who have never had a different job who moan!! They've not seen life on the other side.....so moan about their good life!!
(Ok...rant over...maybe Im just a real happy chappy today as having worked all xmas and new year, today is my first day off.....and the rest of the world struggled back to work....the sun is shining.....:O)

[beaver liquor]

I have plenty of things to be happy about. I think we are paid reasonably well, not overpaid but commensurate with a profession.

If you are operational there is still the opportunity to come in, work, unplug and go home and not be terribly bothered by management.

Where folks sometimes get hot under the collar is when they start looking at other peoples jobs - something I have never understood is this fascination with what someone else gets paid, or what they do to earn their money!

Yep, when I go to CTC there are lots of people about, some of them - shock horror - drinking a Starbucks! I dont know what they all do. But if you stroll into Swanwick coffee lounge, guess what - there are lots of people about drinking skinny lattes. I know I'd be pretty hacked off if people started questioning what we were about, so I can see some of the CTC folks' feeling of being bashed about.

Do I feel as happy as a year ago? No. Because I have a horrible feeling I wont have the pension to retire on that I have been planning for. And I feel that management probably feel they they have the upper hand over us in the current pay negotiations.

But compared to what I am seeing and reading about every day, as another company goes to the wall and more people are made redundant... some folks on here need a reality check.

[Radarspod]

Am I allowed an opinion if not at a unit? :E

I am happy, for all the reasons Gonzo put down. I would rather be working for NATS right now than pretty much any other industry the way things are going.

RS

[Potless]

Thanks for the answers so far, however, the question was not really aimed at individuals themselves; more a question as to the feeling at your units.

[DC10RealMan]

I am very happy now as I retired on the 31st December 2008. I was asked by HR to fill in a questionnare when I finished and in answer to the question "how is morale at your unit" I replied "Dreadful"
I received a telephone call a few days later asking me if I would like to amplify my comments at an interview and I replied that I certainly would and be happy to. I never heard from HR again. NUFF SAID!!!

[atcodownsouth]

Not happy.....dont get me wrong compared to the real world we do very well but from where we were to where we are now and how the company is going.........

i know a lot of people that arnt happy and i think thiings re gonna get worse......

[Scuzi]

At this present moment in time I don't have a lot to complain about with regard to remuneration and holidays. I have it a lot better than most people. However, the outlook is bleak and as a result morale is slowly but surely slipping away. There are similarly qualified controllers elsewhere in the world handling much less traffic in less complex airspace and getting paid considerably more for it both in salary and benefits.

With the recent bout of bull**** to hail from the CTC and level 4, and with the inevitable continuation of that campaign in the near future, my loyalty to Nats is reducing by the day and the prospect of taking myself elsewhere to earn more than twice as much is very attractive.

[rumouroid]

At Swanwick AC morale has been slowly ebbing away, particularly over the last few months, fell a bit on 19th Dec, wonder why? Not quite hit rock bottom yet, but I'm sure a poor result on the 2009 pay deal will make it very close to rock bottom. A proper pay rise of 4.8% (August 2008 RPI) would go down well and may even boost morale, but I'm sure Barron won't let anything happen to improve morale under his reign.

After the pension result Barron has got us where he wants us and things are only going to get worse. My fear is that when Barron moves on his successor will know that we won't stand up for ourselves and we have opened the door for reducing our terms and conditions forever, regardless of who's in charge, I'm not happy about that.:(

[Me Me Me Me]

Morale here isn't great... but it's down to local issues more than anything. The pension decision landed fairly positively on our lot.

In general, I'm just thankful I have a fairly secure job, earning a decent income at the moment. When things pick up again globally I may look to get out for something new... but at the moment it's a case of sit tight and be happy not to be one of the poor buggers who've lost their income in this downturn.

[Homo Simpson]

Morale here is on the floor!!!

Management followed blindly by ass kissing yes men have seen to that!

Only when someone has a real nasty will people finally wake up and see how bad it is. Controllers are spending so much of their time here talking about the problems while plugged in and that's a distraction.
As long as we keep them apart and the profits are good then PB and the paper shuffllers at CTC will keep their collective heads in the sand.

[Roffa]

Controllers are spending so much of their time here talking about the problems while plugged in and that's a distraction.

Manch are always going on about the banding, looks like the case for downgrading to three is proven :rolleyes:

[Homo Simpson]

Don't believe i mentioned the banding. However if you want to get into that bring it on!!

[landedoutagain]

Manch are always going on about the banding, looks like the case for downgrading to three is proven

Thats a bit harsh Roffa, I'm sure manch would accept it if LAC was only downgraded to band 4 !! :ok:

[Minesapint]

AS CTC slime - NO I am not 'happy'. I work longer hours than any NATS ATCO I have known, the work is damded difficult and I am treated like $&*t. On top of that we get slagged off by the people that we work to help! A lkot of CTC people work very hard - more than a comfortouble amount kiss ass with a finesse that I have not seen before, and I am ex mil!!! :suspect:

[throw a dyce]

Minesapint,
Bet you weren't working at 2am Christmas morning,or New Year's day.:hmm:
I'm curious to what you get paid.From what I see some ATCO CTC types are on mega buck compared with Band 2 units,that have a pocket full of ratings and validations.If you aren't an ATCO or an engineer,then be quiet.
I work very close to what is legally allowed,with frequent night shifts as well.I know that on every shift I could easily kill 500+ people,and not just a Starbucks machine.If you don't like your CTC number,then go somewhere else,or if you have an ATC licence see what the real world is like out in Band 2 land.:}

[BDiONU]

;)AS CTC slime - NO I am not 'happy'. I work longer hours than any NATS ATCO I have known, the work is damded difficult and I am treated like $&*t. On top of that we get slagged off by the people that we work to help!
Now now! I'm sure that if anyone who slags off CTC staff bothered to find out what people who work there did then you wouldn't be slagged off. You just have to accept that systems are planned, replaced and maintained by little magic fairies. The same ones who do airspace planning and interface with European and other ANSP's. Who do project planning and financing. Who test the NERC system, NAS, NODE and all the other software builds. Who run the simulators. Who do pay and allowances. I've only touched the surface of the magic fairy kingdom so apologies to all the other departments whose non existence and Starbucks slurping (when they're not off attending million pound away days and glittering fancy balls) makes no contribution towards the safe and successful running of our business (ugh, filthy word, how can ATC be a business! Its not Tesco's).
Know your place Mr pint and remember its always only the depth that varies ;)


BD

[beaver liquor]

throw a dyce, thats a bit harsh telling someone to be quiet, its a forum and he's just as entitled to sound off as you or I.

I had to laugh when you told him if he doesnt like it to do something else, then in the next breath you moan about your banding! Well if you don't like it... do something about it! I hear that due to a cock up somewhere there is a shortfall of new approach persons for TC throughout 2009. Come join us!

[BDiONU]

Minesapint,
Bet you weren't working at 2am Christmas morning,or New Year's day.:hmm:
But then he doesn't get UHP (or if non operational NOS) for working Unsocial Hours.
If you don't like your CTC number,then go somewhere else,or if you have an ATC licence see what the real world is like out in Band 2 land.:}
And take a pay cut? No fear! ;)

BD

[throw a dyce]

Beaver liquor,
I might just do that.Probably couldn't be released until 2020,because the same cock-up affects us as well.:D

[mr.777]

But then he doesn't get UHP (or if non operational NOS) for working Unsocial Hours.

Here we go again, seconds away, round 883 :rolleyes:

Why do you insist on banging on about UHP as if its some sort of bonus that we get just for being ATCOs?? We get it for a reason...as somebody else said, I bet you weren't in on Xmas Day/Boxing Day or New Years Day...come to think of it, 2 weeks off was it until jan 5th? Just like Mr Barron eh?
Instead of banging on ad nauseam about UHP all the time, if you want it so much, may I suggest you get a position that is entitled to it? And don't moan about how there aren't any positions available to you that are entitled to UHP....we could use a 24hr Starbucks facility.:}:}:}:}:}

[Hooligan Bill]

beaver liquor wrote:-

I had to laugh when you told him if he doesnt like it to do something else, then in the next breath you moan about your banding! Well if you don't like it... do something about it! I hear that due to a cock up somewhere there is a shortfall of new approach persons for TC throughout 2009. Come join us!

Now that's quite funny! There is a bloke who has meant to becoming to our unit from Dyce's for years now. In fact it has been that long, I'm not sure if there actually is someone or if it's just an urban myth.

[BDiONU]

Why do you insist on banging on about UHP as if its some sort of bonus that we get just for being ATCOs?? We get it for a reason...as somebody else said, I bet you weren't in on Xmas Day/Boxing Day or New Years Day...
Precisely my point! Why bang on about being at 2am or xmas etc. when there is financial reward for doing so?

BD

[Gonzo]

Less hassle on the roads too! :p

[Roffa]

Is it only the atcos who managed to pull off NOS or did any other grades manage to pull that particular fast one?

[BDiONU]

Is it only the atcos who managed to pull off NOS or did any other grades manage to pull that particular fast one?
Only Prospect negotiated it for ATCO grades, no other grade receives it.

BD

[vintage ATCO]

I would like to say I am delighted with NATS, but then I retired 16 months ago. Interesting discussions . . . . ;)

[flower]

As a fellow retiree perhaps I shouldn't comment but when i joined NATS all those years ago what a happy place it was with excellent Terms and conditions of employment. Privatisation happened and well anyone with half a brain cell knew that they would be eroded. I see even now they have been further eroded.
However before folks go around demanding 4% pay rises perhaps they should switch the news on and see all of those folks losing their jobs and homes and even taking pay cuts just to try to keep in work.
It isn't the NATS it was say even 6 years ago but as T&Cs go it isn't half bad, good pay even in the lower banded pay units ( yes i know the banding isn't fair) , good leave entitlement, sickness and as I found a good ill health retirement policy ( I hope you have kept that in all the pension negotiations)

Take away all the blessed politics as well and the actual job of controlling is superb. As I hear of more and more of my friends losing their jobs or with a real threat of redundancy over their heads I guess NATS ATCOs do OK

I was at a NYE party which had a number of airline folk at, all most of them hoped for was that they would still have a job this time next year

[Ayrshott]

I`d like to say I am happy with NATS, but I would be lying.
Nats, and their predecessors, have made four basic mistakes.

1, Station grading.
2, ATCO2 posting policy.
3,Pension policy.
4, Vast overmanning, except on the shopfloor, and the "room nextdoor".

Our unit IS divided. There are those who still belive it is best to keep our powder dry, and those who have to hope RB`s successor will honour the pension "agreement " for the next 15 years.

Yet there are those who continue doing overtime, keeping an undermanned ops room going, and even some who sell their leave!

The job pays quite well, is often cracking work, the people alongside you are brill.
Its just there are not enough of them, so we "have to make do".

Rant over, time for my cocoa and slippers.....

Bitter and Twisted, and still in exile.

[throw a dyce]

Hooligan Bill,
No he's real alright.I don't think he'll be heading your way soon either,as we have several part valids who can't get fully trained,because of the increased night manning.That's before losing people to the sandpit,retirements etc..
It's happened before but people yote with their feet.Nats and Prospect are not prepared to improve things,so if they get better deals off they go.Yeah I could apply but I think I'll be retired by the time I could get out.If any more leave for sunnier climes then that will cause big problems.:hmm:

[45 before POL]

Mixmastermike...unfortunately you've been shafted with your pension before you even start, as the final salary scheme is closed as of end March. Something in the RAF you still get...but point taken on working conditions. Its still a good company to work for. What you may recognise is rapid changes sweeping in. Pension terms changed and final salary scheme closed. Job losses and cuts sweeping in over next few years.(atcos at present untouched)Shortages of staff are apparent in certain areas of the company and does affect moral and of course workload, some are working stupid hours without any return. Banding, postings even a broken starbucks machine.:E.list is endless. . . but what also the colleagues, which are most valuable to the company and who we all rely on are getting sick of the spin that gets fed down our throats by the likes of RB.:mad:

[250 kts]

I know that on every shift I could easily kill 500+ people:D:D

Is that all? I guess with all of those helicopters around you would have to have a really bad day to get anywhere near 500.;)

[throw a dyce]

OK 300 if you're counting.Some of us work in the west wing and talk to planks.I stop counting after 1.:cool:
The helis and oil platforms are quite good at destroying themselves without help from me.:uhoh:

[anotherthing]

Flower - you can comment, retiree or not - after all, we are bemoaning the reduction in Ts&Cs, so having some people around who can help put it into perspective is no bad thing.

However, I do take umbrage with some of your post...

However before folks go around demanding 4% pay rises perhaps they should switch the news on and see all of those folks losing their jobs and homes and even taking pay cuts just to try to keep in work.

Sorry, but as much as I feel for those people, that argument does not wash with me.

Provision of ATC services is still very much an 'in demand' commodity, and there is still a huge shortfall in ATCOs worldwide (I know ATC is more than just about ATCOs, but lets stay with this for a moment).

NATS are about to announce some very nice profits - a record year in fact.

Inflation is still in the positive percentages.

All those things combined mean that I want a pay rise - 3 to 4% minimum.

I'm sick of people who try to compare apples with pears - I don't care if firemen etc get paid a lot less than me... footballers get paid a lot more for kicking a ball FFS, but the jobs are incomparable. When it comes to my pay rises and Ts&Cs the following is what counts:

1. I work for a profit making business, which has turned several years of good profit.

2. This company 'sells' a highly demanded and extremely good product, mainly thanks to it's workforce.

3. I am highly trained and people like me are in demand around the world.

That means that my situation has nothing in similarity with a shelf filler from Woolworths etc.

You state:

It isn't the NATS it was say even 6 years ago but as T&Cs go it isn't half bad,So the NATS you no longer work for has gone downhill in the past six years... does that mean we should continue to allow a degradation in our Ts&Cs??

That's a bold statement from someone who no longer works for the company.

The fact is NATS is a strong company, who allegedley have given the airline group another nice dividend on the supposed 'not for profit' investment.

It is wholly acceptable that we as a workforce should expect a fair pay deal.

[flower]

I don't think I said you should accept a reduction in your T & Cs far from it. I was amazed to see the result of the pension vote but then I am often amazed at what we voted through often for a small bung from management.
Since leaving I have come to the conclusion that those of us who post on here are firebrands in comparison to the majority of NATS employees who seem to sit back and take what they are told.
I'm just saying that whilst you are demanding what you see as a valid rise in your income many of your airline colleagues are wondering if they will even have a job next year and in that sense the T&Cs that you have are OK.

We haven't as yet seen the real bite to the economy, when we do lets see how many more businesses fold and then how it affects the airline industry, that will be what your paymasters will be looking at. It will be fascinating to see what they offer and why they offer it and whilst anotherthing you may not compare yourself to a fireman or a shop employee I bet your paymasters do.

[anotherthing]

Flower - I have no argument nor gripe with you...


...anotherthing you may not compare yourself to a fireman or a shop employee I bet your paymasters do...


You may well be correct... however if Tescos staff go on strike, I would go to another supermarket for my groceries...

If firemen strike, the Armed Forces get lumbered with the job.

If NATS staff strike, the country is buggered.


...that those of us who post on here are firebrands in comparison to the majority of NATS employees who seem to sit back and take what they are told...
I would go even further and say that some people who spout off on this forum are keyboard warriors...

I was appalled at the turnout for the pension vote - regardless of how one wanted to vote, the apathy shown for such a huge issue was terrible.

However I also heard of people who admitted to voting 'no', but when asked if they would have gone on strike if push came to shove, they have stated they wouldn't. That would have been playing right into the managements hands. It would have given them carte blanche to push anything through.

For the record, I voted 'no' because I truly believed that NATS could offer more and that their roadshows did not do a good job of persuading me otherwise.

I would have also been happy to strike over the issue.

If I was senior NATS management now, I would be rubbing my hands with glee.

A seemingly apathetic workforce and an economy that is undoubtably still to bottom out before the inevitable recovery.

People being made redundant on a daily basis. Therefore no public sympathy for our cause (not that I care).

Regardless of the 1.9% offer on the table a couple of months ago - if I was them, I would be pushing for a pay freeze now because they have us over a barrel.

They will argue that the situation is worse now than when the initial offer was made. They will say that if they knew then (when the initial offer was tabled) what they know now about the economy, they would not have offered a rise at all.

Ops Managers are already walking around Ops rooms at Swanwick sowing the seed for redundancies and harping on about pay freezes and even pay cuts.

Mark my words, scare tactics will be employed by NATS.

If NATS want to save money, start with getting rid of Swanwicks' Safety and Training manager posts and the Ops manager Posts - a complete waste of money and duplication of effort. In fact posts that could be covered by 2 people, not 10.

That would save about £1.75 million a year right off.

[privatesandwiches]

Anotherthing... couldnt agree with you more.
If times are THAT tight, lets start by getting all these mickey mouse managers back in the ops room and earn their keep. Only when NATS start to show willing to actually cutting their costs and stop wasting money on these ridiculous managerial position, armies of admin staff at CTC and crap projects will my ear begin to be a slight more sympathetic to their plights of poverty.
As it stands, they can ram it up their arse and if the big RB ever returns his emails I will tell him that in person.... but i guess he dosent need to engage staff anymore.... he has us where he wants us. Funny how his secretary was more swift with her responses BEFORE the pension vote. Too busy popping the bubbly and shopping with our pension money at John Lewis these days!

[Minesapint]

So in answer: Less than 60k, I often exceed the European working directive and we we do is NOT easy. I appreciate what ATCOs do and I have 35 years in ATC - like it or not - civil and mil - area and towers (and mobile radars up mountains - tent city etc. Just stop slagging off something that you dont understand - or find out!

[mr.777]

As usual anotherthing, your comments are right on the money. :ok:

As it stands, they can ram it up their arse and if the big RB ever returns his emails I will tell him that in person.

Mr Barron is no doubt unable to answer your e-mails because

A) He can't be arsed
B) Why should he? He's ruined the pension...job done
C) His 5 a side team were busy thrashing the Starbucks Over 50s All Star XI on that particular day
D) The DB9 was being washed and valeted by some hard up ATCOs in return for some Aramark canteen vouchers
E) Strictly Come Dancing was on:ugh::yuk:

No doubt he'll get back to you soon though!

[kinglouis]

To set something straight, any engineers on here who are based at CTC... I dont count engineers as CTC monkeys and neither do any of my colleagues in the ops room that have ever spoken to. It is a job vital to the operations of ATC.
However, If engineers get bees in their bonnets and start mouthing off about how would us ATCO's survive if we didnt have our nifty radars and kit that they provide and maintain you will get a short answer.... in the nicest way,we are not that bothered.
If my radar, RT or phone line goes down and cannot be fixed I will move to another console. If that is not possible then everything grinds to a halt and I catch up with some sky sports until I have the equipment to do my job.
It's the company that will take the hit and unfortunately engineers are the ones who will be under pressure to get it fixed asap.
I will take a pager and you can call me when its fixed and I will casually wander back and get on with it.
I used to care about it a lot more but at the moment my enthusiasm has gone, I turn up for work, talk to planes and go home. You can thank the RB for that :D

[Flybywyre]

If NATS staff strike, the country is buggered.

The country is safe from that then ...............
As PB well knows
:eek:

[fisbangwollop]

Right guys we all know we have been shafted but to be honest who's fault is that???...every one I speak to says they voted no!!!...therefore I guess someone is telling porkies??....if we had been like the French we would have walked months ago and got what we wanted....a bludy good pension scheme........that said no bickering on here will reverse that now , we have been shafted for good.........maybe now instead of the constant bickering between departments and grades you could take a moment out to think about the 30 ATSA grades that will no longer have a position on entry to NPC....and then the other 40 that will no longer have a position once electronic strips come in........after 30 plus years of service I can tell you many are pretty peed off!!!....think about that next time you stash your £500 for the next AAVA you do!!!!!!:=

[Gonzo]

mixmastermike,

From 1st April the current pension scheme will close, and new joiners will be on a new, defined contribution, scheme. Admittedly not quite as good as the current defined benefit scheme, but still very, very good when compared to other pension schemes. Ask any IFA.

Not quite sure of the details off hand, perhaps some kind soul will post some information. If not, I'll try and get some tomorrow.

[mr.777]

The MOU will probably be written on the back of a Starbucks cup.

[Gonzo]

I thought maybe Yahoo might have given you more info, mixmastermike, hence I 'un-ignored' his/her post.

Never mind. To answer Yahoo, of course I had details of the new joiners pension scheme when I met with my FA, to ask his opinion. I'm sure you did too, when you went to see your FA. I don't have those details with me right now. Hence why I wrote: "Not quite sure of the details off hand"

mixmastermike, here's a brief rundown from my memory and some notes I found on my computer:


Defined contribution, NATS will pay up to 18% contributions.
Employees pay default 6%, max 9%, min 4%
NATS match cost 2:1
Choice of what the money is invested in (i.e. higher risk, higher return to begin with, changing to low risk low return nearing retirement).
SMART pensions
Dearth benefits to spouse/family.

[terrain safe]

NATS match cost 2:1

Not quite. I think it is 1:1 otherwise if you pay 9% Nats would have to pay 18%.

[PeltonLevel]

if you pay 9% Nats would have to pay 18%.That's exactly what the briefing said - 2 for 1 from 8% for 4% to 18% for 9%, with a default of 12% for 6%.
terrain safe, are you a NATS employee? From your other posts you would appear to be, but you don't seem to have grasped the pension proposals you were objecting to!

[Traffic is...]

As far as I remember from the briefings, that is correct. They will pay up to 18% as this is still reducing the liability and guaranteeing it at 18%. Still not a final salary scheme mind you, but fairly good.

[eglnyt]

According to the information published during the consultation it is 2:1 up to a maximum of 9% employee, 18% NATS.

[250 kts]

Not quite. I think it is 1:1 otherwise if you pay 9% Nats would have to pay 18%.

It sounds like a few people couldn't be bothered to attend a briefing or missed one of the key points in the "propaganda brochure".

Also there is nothing to stop an individual contributing more than 9% of their salary but NATS will only go to a max of 18%.

[45 before POL]

Terrain safe ...new pension is 2:1 so max contibution is effective to 27% of salary based on contribution of 9% by the employee. current contributions are 6% employee and 20%? employer(correct me if wrong) The difference being that the employer contribution is certain to rise higher in the near future for current scheme, something the company have little to control.(apart from the cap) The new scheme will go no higher than the combined total of 27% and is based on a fund value which is exposed to risk to the employee not the company, whereas the old scheme is defined benefits and leaves the employer liable, something the company wants to get away from.