QANTAS - Establishment of QD

[Domestos]

From the FAAA today:

As members are aware, during the last round of Enterprise negotiations, the Company indicated that in addition to MAM casuals, they were considering the establishment of a new entity to employ crew for the Short Haul division.

On 23rd December, the Company announced the establishment of Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas structured in a similar way to QCCA.

All new employees will be covered by a collective agreement between your Association and the new employer. Aspects of the agreement are still being finalised but will be available at the time offers of employment are made to new crew.

The Company will be offering current MAM flight attendants the first opportunity to express an interest for permanent employment with QD before any external recruitment occurs.

Once it is clear as to the number of MAM crew interested in employment, Qantas will discuss Short Haul base transfers with the Association as part the overall recruitment process.

Following the initial start up February/March 2009, there will be further discussions with Qantas on offers being made to regional members including Jetstar as part of career progression to the new Qantas Domestic Company.

Members should note that details of conditions of employment, rostering arrangements and the timing of base transfers for Short Haul members will not be available until mid to late January. Once finalised further information will be provided.

Regardless of various opinions on the establishment of the new company, there can be no doubt that this will provide Short Haul crew with employment protection and improvement in the application of current conditions of employment.

[QF skywalker]

Well here it is. Nice Christmas present to all at short-haul !! Keep smiling at working hard over the christmas period !!

So as a fairly young Full-time QF hostie....I now have about 5-10 years left before this new subsidiary forces me out ?

[speedbirdhouse]

Much will be dependent on which side of politics is in power.

I think that even the Australian public are starting to wise up to what the last 12 years has done to this [once fair] country.

Having said that. History has taught me to never underestimate the stupidity of the average Australian.

[GalleyHag]

QF Skywalker how do you figure that? As you know QD is not part of the domestic EBA you are employed under they are two seperate entities unlike QCCA which at some point in the future could very well arode the lives of long haul crew employed by Qantas Airways.

[Domestos]

GalleyHag....I suppose:

1. Qantas is relying on increasing the numbers of QCCA crew to play against the dwindling QAL LH crew. The more they hire QCCA to displace QAL, the more they will achieve their aim.

2. Qantas is relying on the use of one entity, QD, against another entity QAL SH. As much as the union denies it, multi day trips will be siphoned off to QD as they will be able to squeeze more hours out of them with less pay. QAL SH will be left with pitiful 2 legs MEL or BNE and the odd PER if you are lucky. The FAAA will of course deny that work can be witheld for QD, but really no one can dictate to Qantas how they run their company and who they give their work to. Also don't forget, the FAAA will be hungry for more memberships too so they will also try to appease their QD members.

The SH FAAA can be best described as a sex worker.....getting in bed with everyone....Qantas Airlines, Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd, Jetstar, Virgin Blue, Eastern Australia Airlines, Sunstate, Rex, etc. How can they best represent the interests of QAL SH when they also represent QD? Hello! Conflict of interest anyone? The SH FAAA does not exist for the benefit of its members...it exists for the benefit of itself....J.P + JA.D...they are both too busy justifying their existence to care about justifying ours. The plain and simple reason why they chose not to merge with LH FAAA was because they knew they would loose their jobs. Any member of FAAA, be it LH or SH, can tell you that we stand more to gain by being a united front and a united body.

Its too late now anyway. :rolleyes:

[dizzylizzy]

Under the new QD arrangement, will there be recruitment for CSM's under the QD company?

[dizzylizzy]

Domestos: With reference to your latest post with regard to the union. I have to totally agree with you. I believe the moment the LH and SH FAAA union combine together and step foward we may see some changes...

[QF skywalker]

There will be QD CSM recruitment, but not until 18 months after launch.

[Domestos]

Hey there dizzylizzy....

The employment of CSMs will be reserved purely for QAL for the period of 18 months from the date of employment of the very first QD employee. Of course this is all in theory....what will happen in reality is that Qantas will not promote any QAL to CSM for 18 months from the commencement of QD (why would they...they've just transferred 16 to LH citing that there is an oversupply of CSMs at SH). Then, after 18 months...Qantas will turn around and promote the first QD CSM. I also bet my money that few QAL employees will get CSM...of course, Qantas would make it appear that they are giving everyone equal opportunity...but in reality, they will only select QD employees, with say 1 or 2 QAL thrown in so that it won't look so suss.

Our only way forward is to unite together....but the SH FAAA is way too stubborn and selfish to do so...the elected officials stand to loose too much if we united with LH FAAA because J.P and JA.D know that they have more effective counterparts in the other division usurping their jobs. The SH FAAA stands to gain a lot more by having all of its wrinkly, old, cigarette-stained boney fingers in the domestic airline's pies. I would happily overthrow the SH FAAA if I knew that I had the support of my colleagues at SH....unfortunately, it would be a loosing battle for me, as we all know, SH is full of beehives from TAA and AA, who are happy to do 2 legs MEL everyday.

[DEFCON4]

Dear Colleague
Qantas Domestic Pty Limited
I am pleased to be able to announce the establishment of Qantas Domestic Pty
Limited (Qantas Domestic). Qantas Domestic will provide Cabin Crew to Qantas’
domestic flying operations. Qantas Domestic is a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas
Airways Limited (Qantas) operating as an independent business with its own
accountabilities.
The establishment of Qantas Domestic on competitive terms and conditions is a key
element to provide continued flexibility to our Domestic operations and allows Qantas
to compete in a challenging domestic aviation market in very difficult economic
conditions. Our labour mix will continue to include casual flight attendants who will
continue to be an important component in assisting in managing flying fluctuations.
Both casuals and Qantas Domestic crew will also assist in supporting flexible working
arrangements.
Cabin crew employed by Qantas Domestic will be employed under a collective
agreement made between Qantas Domestic and the Flight Attendants’ Association of
Australia – Domestic/Regional Division.
Qantas Domestic will begin recruiting Cabin Crew shortly with a view to supplying
cabin crew for Qantas’ domestic operations from the February 2009 roster period.
Opportunities will be provided for current MAM Flight Attendants to apply for Qantas
Domestic positions.
There will be a dedicated communication to MAM Flight attendants regarding
employment opportunities with Qantas Domestic.
Your manager is available should you have any questions.
The Fat Controller

[Domestos]

I gotta hand it to Qantas for being quick to launch this company just in time to catch the high school leavers who are in search of work.

[cart_elevator]

I find it really odd that both shorthaul and longhaul are offering voluntary redundancies, leave without pay, part time etc yet the company is saying they will be hiring new full time shorthaul crew in Feb:confused: Does the shorthaul union have nothing to say about this?

The shorthaul union were really dumb to not include QD in their EBA - at least the Longahul union got the QCCA agreement as part of the QAL Longhaul EBA- so the two have to be negotiated together :ok:

I dont know about shorthaul roster rules, but the QCCA crew definately only get their flying after the longhaul bid run- trust me I went from nothing but Joburgs to londons, frankfurts, san frans, and even a honolulu on my roster thanks to the QCCA newbies.

I hope the QD crew will bolster the junior shorthaul crew's rosters !

[QF skywalker]

The website is up.

www.qantasdomestic.com.au

Good Luck to those who apply,hopefully the recruiters get it right.

[Sistema]

Just out of curiosity, who will want this?:confused:

Sure its full time but it is still - domestic. If your going to be paid b-scale money why wouldn't you at least want to fly long haul and have a blast, minus the tuck shop/good hour/chux rubbish.

I mean the reason most people are in short haul is because they have always been here, or either transfered from l/h to join the mothers club.
If you can't choose your time off, what's the point. I mean we don't exactly choose our trips cause they are exciting.

Being a very junior s/h'er, I just hope this new company (somehow) allows us to transfer to l/h.. Somehow?? Please... ;)

[dizzylizzy]

There will surely be some sort of roster request system in place (ie: days off) as there is with the majority of shift work.

[Mr Seatback 2]

People - could we just keep this thread on track regarding recruitment, T&C, etc? Please?

I'm sick to death of threads being closed down time and again by people who see fit to 'teach others a lesson', or make their point at the expense of respecting others.

I can see this thread already starting to veer off course. We don't know very much about the new entity for a number of reasons (least of which is the time of year). Let's just all wait and see, and avoid a slanging match.

I have a few friends who are interested in this opportunity for a variety of reasons, and no doubt there are others on here with the same goal in mind.

In closing, I would also appreciate if we didn't get into the whole issue of QCCD being set up, etc. These are complex issues, which aren't going to get resolved or even changed within the confines of an anonymous internet forum. Let's all just move forward, exchange valid info, and assist those who are genuinely interested in joining S/H in same way many other people joined QCCA just on a year ago.

Many thanks ladies and gents.

[firyice]

Just a quick question....How hard would it be to transfer from qantas domestic to QCCA? I was initally told i got the job with QCCA but was put on hold because of 'economic issues'. To hold for how long is the question?

I received an email regarding a position with qantas domestic and am trying to consider all my future options. How does the process work?

Any info would be appreciated.

Happy New Year to all. :)

[Domestos]

Sistema...I am totally with you...I can't wait til QD starts up so that it gives the company the opportunity to purge some of the divisional transfer list to LH. Whilst the company starts up QD and ramps up operations, I am sure it will want to start getting rid of full time EBA 7 (varied) crew.

I hate to say it...but whether we like it or not, QAL SH is a sinking ship. Do you really think our pattern books will ever have high yield patterns and lucrative multi-day trips? I don't think so. As QD ramps up its operations, we will see our patterns become progressively thinner and thinner. Case in point....our colleagues down in MEL experienced this when the company openly stated that they were trialling 'no-overnights' in MEL a couple of months ago. FAs at the 8-9 year seniority level were doing 21 SYD returns in a roster period !!!!!! So when QD starts up, expect multi-day trips (and any chance of earning DTA) siphoned off. Domestics will spend the rest of their lives tossing muffins between SYD-MEL-BNE on CitiFlyer. I ain't doin 2 legs Mothers Club flying thanks...for as long as I draw breath, I categorically refuse to step foot onboard the same aircraft as those chux-wielding women.

Current EBA 7 (varied) crew are blocked 123 hrs and paid to 140 hrs. I reckon QD crew will be blocked 140 hrs and paid to 140 hrs.

QF A330....if you found my reference to 'beehive' to be interesting...then you should take a look at my post (on pages 9 & 10) of the thread called 'Another QANTAS CC Thread', which is found in the 'D & G General Aviation & Questions' forum. Also take note of the picture posted by someone of a pair of Lesbian Loafers that are commonly worn by beehives and mothers club.

Oh if there is a God, please answer my prayers and activate the divisional transfer list to LH.....I have done my dues and tossed enough biscuits and muffins....I want out of QAL SH.

[Domestos]

There are currently no provisions to transfer between Qantas Domestic Pty Ltd and Qantas Cabin Crew Australia Pty Ltd. They are 2 totally different cabin crew labour-provision companies serving different purposes. The EBA for QD has not been established yet, and I doubt very very much that there will be provision to transfer to QCCA. QD is a bare bones operation and it would cost too much to administer any transfer mechanism to another subsidiary of Qantas. There is also no provision under Part II of EBA8 (which covers QCCA) to allow for transfers.

To answer your second question....it all depends on what you want to do...if you want to fly around the world, then apply to QCCA. If you want to fly around Australia, then apply to QD. Don't apply to QD hoping that you may get a transfer to QCCA because at this stage, there is no mechanism for this.

[cartexchange]

Domestos stated!

Oh if there is a God, please answer my prayers and activate the divisional transfer list to LH.....I have done my dues and tossed enough biscuits and muffins....I want out of QAL SH.
very clever and funny domestos.... but somehow I think you will be tossing muffins for while longer, I really don't see them actioning any transfer list at the moment!
Make the most of it whilst you are there, anyway keep up the great writing as I thoroughly enjoy your sense of humour.

[Domestos]

Hi there cartX...I answered your question re: girt bar in our thread under D & G....hope this satisfies any morbid curiosities? lol :)

I am on the lookout for any virgins out there who are willing to be offered up as sacrifice to the God(s) of Divisional Transfer. Must be current in EPs, have up to date knowledge of this month's The Source and Cabin Crew News. Preference will be given to those with bun tossing skills (wholemeal and sour dough varieties). I have resorted to sacrificing virgins to appease the Gods now....my previous attempts at offering my bedroom services to the departing CEO was politely declined.

My mate told me some MAM casuals have already been interviewed for QD. They were informed that the terms and conditions will be revealed to them after they sign up. Applications for MAM casuals close mid January apparently. Hello QD recruiters!!!!!! Do you really think people are that desperate to give you a blank cheque to sign? Lets hope that the QD recruiters aren't as picky as they were when they interviewed MAMs for QCCA. I heard people were being rejected....only to find weeks later that they were being called up to reconsider! Hello recruiters!!!! People have dignity you know!!!!! Its not like you are offerring a fabulous job with a harbour view corner office, a secretary, and a company provided Audi A6 and platinum Amex....(in which case, I would happily be a door mat that Qantas can wipe their feet on).

I find it irretrievably absurd that recruiters are making MAM casuals sit for an interview for a position at QD. Hello!!!! Were the recruiters busy picking the lint out of their belly buttons when our MAM colleagues were working with us all these years??????? Get a grip QD....our MAM colleagues are hard workers and they deserve every modicum of respect so treat them accordingly please!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blow.n.gasket]

I wonder what the Qantas Domestic new hires will be called?
QANDOMS?:}

[skyshow]

Just out of curiosity, who will want this?http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif


Sistema, totally agree. One could get a full time position at Virgin Blue for example, on more pay (already more than QCCA let alone what QD will be)and for same hours (currently same duty limitations) with additional benefits, eg: bidding.

But, just like any new entity/airline workforce, it will always be one step below the last, with young new budding hopefuls willing to fill spots. As always of late, its a race to the bottom.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Gasket, CLASSIC!!!!!

Totally agree, why should current S/H crew have to interview for a job they already do... they have the personnel files, they have BPRs, customer letters, blah blah blah... look at them, toss the ones with no reasonable reasons for high sick leave, or too many disciplinaries and let the rest who want to transfer, transfer.

I'll take a look at what they're offerring, why not- what?? They want to what? Make me wait until I accept before I can see what's on offer? I seriously hope that isn't true, they will have a lot of people laughing in their faces :p

I heard from a fairly reputable source that it will be a similar setup to QCCA in regards to bidding- that is, none. So I suppose it might be better for MAMs to stay where they are if they want any modicum on control over their home life. I'll take 3 consecutive days off over no choice of anything!

Does anyone think they'll resort to 'join QD or there may not be a position for you' anymore, or in the rumour that MAM hours will drop to the minimum 80 hours? It seems to have happened to a lot of crew already for the Jan rosters... I thought Jan is traditionally busy...?

[Domestos]

You are right. It is interesting when you visit the QD recruitment website how desperate Qantas sounds when they scrape the bottom of the barrel in trying to advertise the benefits:

1. "Working Environment": it states "exciting and flexible". Clearly a blatant lie....there is absolutely no flexibility at all because there will be no bidding, no control of your roster or how you are allocated work or any means of input.

2. "Enjoy Travel": perhaps the company's only best selling point....Staff Travel.

3. "Be Recognised": this one is really, really lame. Somehow they think they can convince people to join because there is a reward program called eXcel....which really is a pin on your lapel and a monetary gift voucher. What a lame selling point this is...hardly enough to make people jump out of their skins.

4. "Uniform": oh please...another lame selling point. Do you really think the police force advertise the fact that you get to wear a uniform in order to entice you to join? Do you really think that Westfield outlines how exciting it would be to wear their uniform if you are applying to be a food court janitor? Get a grip QD! A uniform is hardly a selling point. if you really want to make this one stick...perhaps throw in "we'll even dry clean your uniform for free", maybe then people might give validity to this point.

5. "Further Education": this is a blatant lie. Qantas College is not a higher education body that confers qualifications, clearly the angle that Qantas is pitching at. In reality, Qantas College have cut back courses for staff and only conduct courses that are mandatory for certain parts of the organisation...cabin crew are not one of them. Qantas College is mainly a training facility that QF sub-contracts out to third parties...it is no longer what it used to be.

6. "Finance": another weak selling point. Becoming a staff credit union member is hardly a strong selling point in order to win over potential applicants. The benefits of "a competitive range of products and services" is intrinsic to being a credit union member, not intrinsic to being a QD flight attendant.

7. "Health and Wellbeing": a blantant lie. With the high hour rosters that QD will promulgate, one will definitely not enjoy health and wellbeing....more like fatigue. The provision of "discounted fitness memberships, insurance and childcare" from the Employee Assistance Program is somewhat of a misnomer...I have not seen this advertised openly for existing staff, and if it has been, then it would be some obscure weblink that is embedded deep, deep, deep, within the Qantas Intranet site.

8. "Supporting our Community": another weak selling point. How does QD attract potential flight attendants by advertising its social responsibility to the greater society? More to the point...what has this really got to do with being a flight attendant for QD?????? OK, so Qantas has an environmental policy called "BeGreen"......AND???...how does this DIRECTLY relate to being a flight attendant with QD???? Also...how does Qantas' support for charities got anything to do with trying to convince people to sign up to be FA with QD???? Where is the direct beneficial link??????

9. "Sport and Culture": a potential applicant says to him/herself "Oh goodie....I see there is a Qantas Lawn Bowls team...I'm definitely going to apply to be a flight attendant with QD....I want to be a part of this team".....oh please, get me an inflight sick bag. Do you really think people are gonna be leaping for an application form simply because there are recreational sport teams organised by certain employees at QCC Mascot? I mean really...with the amount of flying that QD will do, there will hardly be any time to sleep or eat, let alone play sports.

10. "Keeping up to date": I nearly fell off my chair in laughter when I read this selling point: "Regular publications, newsletters and information websites are available to all employees to help them keep up to date with the latest Qantas news, events and cabin crew standards ensuring every employee is up to date with the latest of ideas and headlines.":D

As one can see...all 10 selling points for QD are totally weak and lame. There is obviously no mention of a 'competitive salary' cos clearly, there is none. The only thing that Qantas can rely on to sell this deal to people is the fact that you get staff travel and a Morrissey uniform to wear. Granted, the fine details of this package have yet to be fleshed out....but really, do you think that it will get significantly better?source: www.qantasdomestic.com.au

[Whitelighter12345]

Domestos, no muffin, it has shrinked to mini pink cupcakes! enjoy... :cool:

[QF skywalker]

Domestos - can you and I please buddy bid ? I need a good laugh.

I really hope whomever composed the QD website has a chance to read your response. Hilarious and TRUE.

[ditzyboy]

The shorthaul union were really dumb to not include QD in their EBA - at least the Longahul union got the QCCA agreement as part of the QAL Longhaul EBA- so the two have to be negotiated together

cartexchange -

Some would view the ability for QCCA to vote alongside QAL-LH on a common EBA document as a 'really dumb' move by the Longhaul FAAA. When QCCA out-number QAL-LH crew do you honestly expect them to support the people on the A-scale pay if it means bolstering their own salaries and conditions? Especially when everyone employed under that document does the SAME job!

I, for one, prefer that QD have no voting rights on our EBA (to which I voted no). Ideally there would be no QD, but that's out of our hands now. At least the SH EBA (as varied) has clauses protecting the daily duty hour limitations of QD. That is some consolation.

As far as T&Cs for QD it will be VERY interesting. Will they go the Virgin Blue/Jetstar (ex-Impulse) conditions? Or will they go along the lines of Team JQ or something else again?

[Door_One_Right]

I can see them offering something akin to a 'Team Qantas Domestic' package.

Their recruitment page is also asking for photos in uniform or business attire. Is that normal for Qantas? I didn't think that was allowed in Australia but I could be wrong.

[flitegirl]

It's legal to ask for a photo to be included for a job application.

Ditzy,

I couldn't have said it better myself. It is definitely safer that QD don't have voting rights for our EBA 7 Varied, unlike the QCCA crew who are included in the long haul EBA

[Domestos]

Whitelighter12345: Oh dear...so they've decided to do an 'Alice in Wonderland' trick on the muffins. Babes, its been a while since I've done AM refreshment on a short sector in the main cabin...so understandably I am out of touch with the culinary updates. I am better at 'tray-wrangling' [long sectors].

QF Skywalker: Babes...I'd be happy to buddy bid with you so as long as you:

1. Aren't a member of the beehives
2. Do not wear Lesbian Loafers
3. Do not use paper liners (except for taking drink orders off crew for duty free purchase and for giving out phone numbers to pax)
4. Feel at ease watching me toss a cory pot/oven rack/coffee mug down the garbage collection cart
5. Are able to spot out B.O.B. with an eagle eye
6. Do not use a silly grandma fold-away-wheelie to transport your esky bag
7. Do not use full bright lighting in the galleys...even if your life depended on it
8. Do not froth at the mouth if you see me dragging/operating a fully laden meal cart with bar on top all by myself.
9. Are comfortable using 3 drawers on top of a meal cart that is triple stacked on a regional flight. [MEL base....this one counts you out...I know you love to use only one drawer on top]
10. Can contribute to the general pool of gossip in the galleys. Any gossip is good gossip. Bonus points if the gossip involves someone sleeping with someone or someone's misfortunes (eg. demotions/being stood down/disciplinary action). I looooove gossip...being the source of it; creating it; spreading it; and adding to it.

Flitegirl and ditzboy: You are both right in your analysis of the situation and so too is Cartexchange. The truth of the matter is....both outcomes are right. QCCA will one day out vote QAL over at LH. On the other side of the coin.....even though QD is not a part of QAL, the company will still use it to their advantage by playing off one entity against the other in a sort of mini war where one tries to outdo the other. There is merit in cartexchange's argument and there is also merit in flitegirl & ditzyboy's. The company has all its bases covered to manipulate its own desired outcome. This 'power' requires very little effort on the part of Qantas....the outcome will be delivered by virtue of the arrangment that the company has set up:

1. Over at LH....the company does not have to lift a finger...they know that QCCA will someday out vote QAL.

2. Over at SH...the company does not have to lift a finger....it will siphon off multi day and DTA generating trips to QD...and gradually, SH QAL will slowly jump ship.

So...at the end of the day....no matter which division we are in SH or LH...we are both dead men/women walking.

[Domestos]

I believe the company would still need to have MAMs as part of its veritable smorgasbord offering to support the FWA system. Whether or not it will try to squeeze out MAMs is uncertain. It all depends on how they will build the rosters for QD and where MAM rosters slot in. Will they build the QAL rosters first, then MAM, and then QD or will it be QAL then QD then MAM?

I would advise our MAM colleagues to exercise caution before leaping into the QD company. Sure the lure of paid sick leave and staff travel is enticing...but make sure you weigh up what is important to you. Don't be pressured in joining up now if you smell something fishy and prefer to wait until the EBA is knuckled out. Conversely, the advantage of joining early is that you will be more 'senior' in terms of CR, should it happen. If you get in first, then people from the Regional airlines and off the street will slot in under you for the purposes of CR ordering.

[Pegasus747]

Having the QCCA AND QAL crew in the one EBA makes sound industrial sense.

THE QANDOM EBA will be at a different time to the QAL SH EBA. Therefore you will not be able to work together and take protected industrial action if QANTAS decides to screw one group or the other.

With the LH EBA both group have a symbiotic relationship and can work together and STRIKE together to protect each other

Secondary Boycotss provisions would stop that with the QANDOM group and QAL SH

It was one of the selling points of the LH EBA that crew accepted as a sound judgement call by the negotiators.

QANTAS fought very hard for a separate EBA for QCCA for that very reason and the LH FAAA would not agree.

Just another perspective. Personally i dont agree with the whole outnumbering issue. When the Red Circled chiefs and Seniors were protected in terms of income the other crew did not try to trade off their protection to benefit anyone else in fact quite the opposite.

The more QCCA and QAL crew work and respect eachother despite the differences the better chance they have of COLLECTIVE bargaining

[indamiddle]

i think it will be a huge amount of years before qcca or qandoms will be able to dominate their respective unions. with low pay and higher hours they will have neither the time nor energy to become involved let alone the turnover of thesecrew due to above positions. to quote a qcca recently, " after 6 months of flying i have had to move back to my parents home because of the pay and who wants to spend the next 5 years flying to singapore and LAX". u will probably find the same attitude with the qandoms eventually, no overnights,poor pay.

[skyshow]

" after 6 months of flying i have had to move back to my parents home because of the pay and who wants to spend the next 5 years flying to singapore and LAX".


As you know this is obviously because of the cheaper wages and the more work they do and also its not really an appealing job because its more tiring (more hours worked) and there's no financial reward for it (weekends, public holidays, no bidding, jet lag, B/First-for-free)...

Oh but you do get to wear the uniform! :D


So...at the end of the day....no matter which division we are in SH or LH...we are both dead men/women walking.


Isn't the number of QCCA going to beat the number of QAL in 3 years? And domestically I'm sure this will happen in years to come, meaning no power to QAL in the future. I believe you are right Domestos.

In addition, perhaps QD and QCCA crew will get a taste of this too, when Qantas decide to find a cheaper option and move everyone to that cheaper option (like MAM to QD eventually) also eg: QCCA to QCCA2 in a few years! I think a job at Qantas is safe, but conditions will never be safe in the long term - a lot of swapping and changing and this is the beginning. Australian Airlines and MAM and Jetstar EBA crew are gone/going because they're not the cheapest anymore. How long till QCCA and QD won't be as cheap?

[AirborneSoon]

Well personally I think it's a big mistake for QF to go down the road of cheap labour and high staff turnover. You cannot give someone a job they have no pride in and don't like doing and expect them to fly the flag of "worlds most experienced" & "premium" airline at the same time.

Nothing can ever cover up the fact that someone doesn't like being there or resents the conditions of their employment. You can't make it policy for someone to love their passengers, what they do and their employer. That is something that has to come from within and is born out of people feeling personally valued.

If you take a mean stand towards your employees you'll get employees that will do everything in their power to perform their duties at the bare minimum, take every opportunity to rip the company off (in lieu of decent terms and conditions) and tell your customers that they are getting a crappy experience because of management. Not exactly the way to cultivate long term business.

While I understand the drive to create a more economically flexible workforce in challenging times if you push too far it will become a false economy. You can only trade on the excitement of a newcomer to the industry to shore up your customer service for so long.

[Ka.Boom]

Qantas management dont give a ****e about experience,loyalty or simmering resentment in the work place.Cabin Crew are just arms and legs as far as management are concerned.
This "evolution" in the work place occurred in the States 25 years ago.In the U.S airlines are nothing more than a bus service.At least they are honest about what they offer.With Qantas its lipservice.
All this crap about wanting to be the worlds best airline is laughable.
The aircraft are dinosaurs,the IFE is rubbish;Ontime departure is abismal.
Its down to the crew to apologize and fix the phuckups.
If you are paid less and have less agreeable conditions are you really going to give two ****z?
Shop party bonk leave...Churn and burn.
You will probably end up with a Clause11 because your name tag is a centimetre off centre.Doesnt matter that you have three excel awards.
You cant provide a Mercedes product on a Volkswagen budget.
Qantas will never ever be the best airline on the planet with the current dollar underspend and inept and incompetent management in place.
Tell 'em they're dreamin'

[Pegasus747]

Some of the funniest posts i have ever read have appeared on this thread and another from Domestos :)

Please keep up the entertainment its cold here in London and we need the laughs for NYE!!

[Little_Red_Hat]

Seems the pruning shears came out again, and it wasn't even getting nasty this time!! :E

[Little_Red_Hat]

Also, did anyone notice the change on the roster screen under base & line which says:

WorkRule: AUSM

What does that mean? And I wonder if now being able to access standing bids, Pref bidding etc when I couldn't last week means anything either???

[Vandal28]

It has been a very sad state of affairs to watch the dimise of the greatest airline in the world. The last 8 years under the total control of the poison gnome have seen a once proud workforce beaten into submission, well almost. Qf has turned into a company of smoke and mirrors, all the glossy brochures about designer skybeds that pax. slide off, designer amenity kits, that are pancake boxes and self serve refreshment bars that only stock 6 chocolate bars for 24 people. I think that it is time to get back to KISS, keep it simple stupid. Enough of change (to keep a corridor crawler) in a job, lets start listening to the people who handle the phuck ups everyday as a matter of course. It's time for the new chairman and CEO to use that big broom that has been hiding in the cupboard and get rid of all the management that so willing adopted the former leaders approach. Hate the crew, treat them like bun tossers and you will get ahead. What our managers forget is that we are the reason that they have a job.

[argusmoon]

We always end up in the same place with the same result and directed here by the usual suspects.
No wonder Tighslot has a Nana moment and turfs us out

[QFinsider]

Guys,

You must understand THEY only understand one side of the ledger...Cost.

Once this beds in then Jit connect will be the next port of call.
As far as flight crew are concerned, Q mainline had the vitriol of J* They are now finding out the tasman flying will actually be cheaper using Q aircraft and J cinnect crews..

"Jet star lite" J* flight operated by J connect....

Welcome to the mainline party.....

The longer one lives, the more things really do repeat......:ugh:

[fluffyderby]

Speaking of Jetstar...are their any other shorthaulers out there who a little concerned with EVERY flight of ours being codeshared with them.
I remember not so long ago, when it was in start up mode, that management said that there would NEVER be any codesharing except in the case where Qantas provides a feeder to a Jetstar international flight.
Makes me wonder how this is affecting our bottom line.
Call me paranoid, but I hope that it isn't a ploy to render Qantas financially unviable, sack us all, move the assets to Jetstar then rebrand back to Qantas.
Any comments?

[jet.jackson]

Management arent that clever.
They do however get a lot of ideas from PPRuNe

[TightSlot]

Fun's over now...

[call button]

As I understand, the first group of QD recruits are due on line on 31 Jan. They are all to be MAMers who have decided to take up a fulltime position. Could anyone tell me how many MAM crew have taken up the offer and what your pay, t & C's will be??

[speedbirdhouse]

In the breathtakingly arrogant but typical Qantas fashion I believe they are going to leave those inconsequential details as some kind of, "surprise".

[call button]

But surely any propsective employee would have to be provided with details of salary and conditions prior to accepting a job. :confused: