To all those who think they are on a bad deal.

[joehunt]

This should cheer you up!

There is a job advertised on an orange background site, offering $6000/month for B727 Captains. It gets worse! I kid you not! Based in Pakistan and the Congo, 6 months contract.

[JJflyer]

But you get housing. My guess is that they are offering Burj Al Arab style single accomodation in lieu of a salary NOT :E

[Mach E Avelli]

Ah, but if you were Pakistani or Congolese and living at home, or possibly from one of the failed Soviet States, this would be a king's ransom......

[JJflyer]

If you lived there, then perhaps, but the job was advertised on a forum requiring a membership and it is read and subscribed to by predominantly Western pilots, Americas and Europe. I would think the target audience is well defined as pilots from these areas. For that and the area the salary is rediculously low.
Even for those coming from those areas you just mentioned, it is not the deal of the century or kings ransom. Many companies and people in those areas operate first class modern equipment and quickly have the chance to move to contracts that are paying double or even triple to what this contract offered.

Peopla forget that when you work in an other country than your home, you still have those fixed expenses back home that are there regardless of what you make in your host country. Salaries and compensation packages often do not account for this. Alas high turnover or need to constantly advertise as the terms and conditions do not interest people.

[captjns]

These bottom feeding operators are making a King's Ransom but paying the crews peon salaries.

Beware that some of these bottom feeding operators disappear after they bet paid but never fork over the final month's wages after the contract is complete.

With a short term contract, one should ensure that the final month's pay is in escrow to ensure that one will be received.

[joehunt]

It is a sad state of affairs that someone will take the job, as it is better than no job at all. However it also exposes the employers willing to take advantage of this bad situation, a lot of pilots are finding themselves in.

One thing in their favour is they are up front with what they are "not" prepared to pay but this is an attempt at gross exploitation, none the less.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

It's probably still a better outfit than those pikeys Ryanair. Only the truly desperate and the no hopers work for them.

[Stan Woolley]

I wonder how many like you have come running this way since finding themselves unemployed?

[BitMoreRightRudder]

It's probably still a better outfit than those pikeys Ryanair. Only the truly desperate and the no hopers work for them

Utter garbage. And I work for ezy by the way.

[nuageblanc]

And I work for ezy by the way.


But ezy is a :mad: as well !!! Try to get away from lowcost man.

[captjns]

Another thread hijacked by a malevolent malcontent:}. Oh well it happens:(.

How can one compare the flying of latest technology aircraft with excellent maintenance (EZ and FR) to Jurassic jets with captains’ pay less than what a first officer earns at Ryanair or EZ Jet:confused:?

[JJflyer]

The malcontent has an axe to grind with EZ, quite apparent from his post history. What ever people say about EZ or RYR, they are still a million times better option that sitting in Africa living in a tree making peanuts and flying a clapped out treeholer (Been there done that, got the T-shirt).

[captjns]

Same here... Some newbees just have the big pictures.

Bring back the 727 with -219's :ok:!

[captplaystation]

nuageblanc thinks dicking around in icing over France in an ATR/ Saab or whatever wonderplanes Regional operates is better than easy jet, well, enjoy winter, unless you have managed to slip through the AF loony tests.
whatedoesthisbuttondo seems to have a bit of a problem with the Irish.
Why don't you join CaptKremin's playgroup cherub, he works for the "other Irish" so he may be able to stop you disgracing yourself with racist comments but you can still spend your time slagging off RYR to your hearts content.

Have any of you who mention RYR/EZY in the same breath as some dodgy African 727 operator actually done anything like that ? ? if you had perhaps your global view of the industry might be more rounded. You should, as they say, "get out more". :hmm:

[nuageblanc]

Captain playstation, when I joined DB there was no ATR nor SAAB. Now I am in the mainline of the same group (GAF, you have probably heard about).
You are no longer in france because your rubish company (rayanair) dont want to pay french taxes, at least easy jet pays french taxes. so as long as Mickeal o leary wont pay those mandatory taxes, you will remain "no longer in france" because ryanair will not be able to set up a base in france. Irish wine and cheese is not so bad after all :}
And should we remind that those people in marseille base work illegally in france because they have no french contract!!!!

Proud to be in such a "company" arent you ?? :yuk:

Enjoy your 6 sectors a day and your forced unpaid leave in winter, your 900 hours a year and your unexistant social insurance and pension scheme :E

PS: I am sorry you failed the tests in AF.

[captplaystation]

Just for your info, I left France voluntarily for somewhere that the sun shines more & the bullsh@t level is lower.
I wasn't based in France with Ryanair, but Belgium, hence the incentive to move if you like to see the sun more than a couple of times each year.
In this industry being "based" in France may seem to you like a reason for the French government to demand you have a French contract. Ryanair however chooses to respect instead the norms of the industry, which I believe are perfectly legal in Ireland (and we are an Irish company in YOUR country - because you are incapable of creating a low cost carrier yourself it seems if we look at the "success" of Transavia France - not a French company) and the contract of the individual and taxes and charges of the individual are pàid in the country of the employer (location of their siege social v.f. ? )which is perfectly acceptable within European legislation for this industry, if not to Mr Sarkozy.
BTW 6 sector days are flown at very few bases because generally most have sectors that are too long, bet you did them in Regional, no ? or was that too close to actually doing a days work to be acceptable.
Air France ? me ? you are joking. Why would I at my age want to spend the rest of my life sitting in the wrong seat alongside some prima donna that thinks he is gods gift to aviation, good luck pandering to the ego's of some you will fly with, not for me thanks, anyhow I would NEVER pass the French test, there you go some ammunition to hit me back with.

[captjns]

Some individuals choose jobs for reasons the will produce best quality of life being home at base every evening without RONs. They probably don’t give a rat's a$$ about the politics. They have more important things to worry about than getting wrapped around the axle.

All they just want to pitch up do their job fly with good people, and go home after they have completed the mission for the day… and get paid for their work based on their contract which was agreed upon by both parties, which is the pilot and the company… not anyone else.

Does anyone really justify the right to criticize or comment about one's own choice?

[PPRuNeUser0178]

I've said it before and I will say it again.

The ignore function - it's great!

Now only if we had some way of cancelling out all the arrogant french :mad: at CDG who speak in French today even after its use was sited as a cause in the death of a pilot at that very airport.

Tell you what, lets go on strike, why? because the sun got up this morning!

Sorry couldn't resisit:=

Hope he\she\it takes the bait so I can't read his reply through my ignore function once more.

White cloud bashing, its fun join in !

[JJflyer]

Air Farce or Easy. I would not have to think twice about that. Besides I don't speak frog nor do I want to. Regardless Captplaystations post pretty much sums it up.

Good on you ezydriver. I will have to get type rated on the ignore function as well.

[nuageblanc]

If you want to be home everyday, you'd better work in the post office or a bank.
Aviation is not doing 4 or 6 secors a days and going back to your flat, but since you remain in lowcost things you will never understand it and think you are in the paradise. Does the myth of the cavern sounds familiar to anyone of you?
I always laugh when I see french expat working for ryanair and saying Air France is not good enough for them :}:ok:

Captain playsation, there are so many AF pilots living in Nice, Toulouse, Aix en Provence, Corsica, Spain, Italy...

And yes, Ryanair people working at Marseille base work illegaly because they dont have french contracts.

And last, but not least, In CDG we speak french because we are in our country. Check what annex 10 of ICAO says !!! it will be the same in MAD, FCO, etc...
English people are frustrated because they cant understand anything else than english.

[Rainboe]

Without getting involved in the spat, it is vital pilots speak the same language without making a political thing of it. It may be worldwide Mandarin in 30 years, but for now it is English- French has historically had far too little general useage around the world apart from being a place to borrow words when we can't think of one in English! But if not English, Spanish is currently the next most useful worldwide language. But in a generation, we will all be swept away by Oriental anyway. But for now, I want to be able to fly anywhere and understand what's going on. English it is. And French accented English is attractive. It is not an admission of national defeat, it is in the cause of understanding. I appreciate people are speaking it as a second or third language and I appreciate they are making an effort to do so. Universal comprehension is the word.

Now get learning Mandarin you young pilots!

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Well, did he/she/it bite?

[nuageblanc]

Without getting involved in the spat, it is vital pilots speak the same language without making a political thing of it. It may be worldwide Mandarin in 30 years, but for now it is English- French has historically had far too little general useage around the world apart from being a place to borrow words when we can't think of one in English! But if not English, Spanish is currently the next most useful worldwide language. But in a generation, we will all be swept away by Oriental anyway. But for now, I want to be able to fly anywhere and understand what's going on. English it is. And French accented English is attractive. It is not an admission of national defeat, it is in the cause of understanding. I appreciate people are speaking it as a second or third language and I appreciate they are making an effort to do so. Universal comprehension is the word.

Now get learning Mandarin you young pilots!


Mon cher Arc-en-ciel, je suis désolé mais l'annexe 10 de l'OACI stipule bien que l'on parle la langue locale à la radio. Rassures toi tout de meme car les controleurs font des effort pour te donner un service dans ta langue de rosbif. Nous aussi parlons ta langue et nous te comprennons quand tu emets sur notre fréquence au-dessus de notre Terre.
Claro que el espanol es un idioma bastente hablado, y muy bonito ya que es latino y tiene la misma rais que el frances o el italiano. Y ya veras en espana se habla espanol en la frequencia, en Italia se parla italiano !

I am sorry, but if you were not english you would speak more than one language.

[nuageblanc]

Well, did he/she/it bite?


havent you found the ignore function yet ? :rolleyes:

[EAM]

And last, but not least, In CDG we speak french because we are in our country. Check what annex 10 of ICAO says !!! it will be the same in MAD, FCO, etc...

Speak 3 languages, work in Italy, still doing ATC and briefings in english, which is not my own language, reply to clearances in italian in english...all this just because of safety.
If this is not a subject for AF or the frensh pilots.....well go ahead, we have already seen where this leads to.

Flew with some french guys, 2 french crewmembers and 2 non french in the cockpit, the french guys were always talking in french even about flight related things. Very good CRM....the french way:}
BTW: it was not a french company we were flying for, not even in France.

[nuageblanc]

So you must not be working for Air Dolomiti, nor alitalia :E
Even in germany they speak german (air berlin, etc...).

You have to respect it, and learn foreign languages for your own culture.:ok:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Love the French: pretty much like the Dutch.

There is only 1 way to do things....the French way. Never mind the SOPs, Regional, Liberte, AF SOPs are always better and DANGEROUS!!!!!

When you have French pilots doing their own thing it creates DANGER.

When the French learn that safety comes first, regardless of nationality, language or airline THEN, and only THEN, will they be regarded as grown up.

Until that point they will always be viewed for what they are: a bunch of whining spoilt brats with nice food and wine and a spectacular country somebody else should be living in.

Rant over.

PS One of the best pilots I have ever flown with is French, Christophe of the City, Fingers of Gold.

[EAM]

Even in germany they speak german (air berlin, etc...).

Bull****.....you wont hear any german controller or german pilot to read a clearance in german, just because they somethimes talk in german, doesnt mean they do ATC in german. But here you go, you dont understand the language, so you dont know whats going on, thats way every professional pilot does ATC in english!

[nuageblanc]

Anyway my friends, CDG will always be french first no matter your wishes are. If you are not happy, try Beauvais !


http://ring.mithec.com/BOOKS/travel-france-pic-liberte.jpg

[captplaystation]

nuageblanc, those fortunate enough to live where they are based have an alternative to working in a bank or post office, it's called Ryanair.
You seem to think everyone that works for them has never worked elsewhere & wasted vast chunks of their life losing time in some hotel somewhere they probably have been a 100 times & don't want to be at that moment.
Of course for you, at this obviously early stage of your career, it is all so glamorous, well I am happy for you. When you have spent a few years or indeed a few decades doing it you will see that even if you arrive home a little tired, sleeping in your own bed with your own partner isn't actually the worst option. Those on a 5/4 roster will probably have 1 standby a week, so 4 on 4 off AND at home. . . . or you prefer 3 sectors & a night in the Sofitel in Marseilles I suppose, to each his own.
Whatever one's native tongue is , why can't you see too that everyone's situational awareness is enhanced by everyone speaking the same language, I have averted a few scares in CDG & indeed been aware of a few near misses too by virtue of understanding the V.F. transmissions. If only one language that EVERYONE spoke was in use, everyone would be afforded that extra safety net. I am sorry for you that it isn't your language in use world wide but that is life. BTW in Beauvais they don't get to practice their French very much, due to the sucess story that is French aviation outside of AF :rolleyes: Most of my French colleagues are fairly happy in Ryanair for the same reason, France is not exactly full of opportunities for pilots now is it ?
Try proving to me that Ryanair employees are in breach of European or indeed Irish law as it relates to aviation employees and perhaps I can take your claim that they are working illegally seriously. As the rules relating to that profession stand they are not, even if your country would like to impose it's views on a third party country they can't, as there exists already legislation covering this situation.
I am aware there are AF pilots living everywhere under the sun, but, you are all based in Paris, so, like many others they are commuting. The joys & pitfalls of that lifestyle will become apparent to you around the time you are stranded and unable to get to work because your inbound aircraft diverted, it will become even more apparent around the time of your second divorce, if indeed two gullible women can be found to accompany you cher cloud.

Joyeaux Noel.

[stormin norman]

'In CDG we speak french because we are in our country'

If it wasn't for the English you'd be speaking German !

[EAM]

If it wasn't for the English you'd be speaking German

Which would be better for all of us, I think you guys still regred this.
If it would be german at CDG than it would actually be english, because in Germany we speak the language of aviation......english:ok:

[captplaystation]

stormin norman :ok: :D

He's gonna come back now and tell us it was the Yanks, or better still Charles De Gaulle :8 := Yeah right.

[captplaystation]

Don't you just love those Simon & Garfunkel moments

" the sound of silence" :ok:

[nuageblanc]

English is a very ungly and unpersonnal language. We are more than 4000 pilots at AF and one of the requieremnet to apply is to be perfectly fluent in french. I am happy to speak french all the day at work and I do all the briefing in French. But I often do the radio in spanish over spain and it seems to work :cool:

Captain playstation, At AF we have a really good planification department and people living outside Paris tend to start and finish from the airport close to where they live. I love visiting the world, so there is no problem to me :ok:
I appreciate you prefer working like a postman or a banker, climbing-decending-climbing-descending-climbing-descending-climbing-descending and back at the same initial point with the same wife all the life :\...
And yes I was quoting beauvais as a crappy airfield with no Cat III but the controlers are willing to speak english for the low cost airlines that are the only users, because CDG is too expensive for them.

I am happy not to have english collegues, I am kind of incompatible with those cold and false people, not the same humour not the same culture.:ouch::ouch:
(I do prefer americans, nicer accent, better culture :ok:)

I say again CDG will remain French First forever ;):D

http://www.esfutbol.es/uploads/esfutbol.es/othumbs/lg_french-girls-kissing-500x359.jpg




Joyeux Noel les filles !

[JJflyer]

Just ignore him.

Option 1.The whole business has gone into his head. Read his posts from last year and he was still looking for a job, probably still is but pretends to be with AF.
I actually thought they had some standards, I was obviously mistaken. My only wish is that most AF pilots are not same kind of degenerates, can't really be or can they?


Option 2. This guy is a windup merchant and go's from one forum to another winding people up with his "Trolls" and getting sick satisfaction out of it.

Option 3. All of the above.

[PBY]

I think, that even the french guys must be ashamed of this guy.

[captplaystation]

same wife all the life ;) :rolleyes:

one of the reasons I don't want to commute any more :=

[Jetdriver]

5...4...3...2!

[astronaute]

"If you want to be home everyday, you'd better work in the post office or a bank.
Aviation is not doing 4 or 6 secors a days and going back to your flat, but since you remain in lowcost things you will never understand it and think you are in the paradise. Does the myth of the cavern sounds familiar to anyone of you?
I always laugh when I see french expat working for ryanair and saying Air France is not good enough for them http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Captain playsation, there are so many AF pilots living in Nice, Toulouse, Aix en Provence, Corsica, Spain, Italy...

And yes, Ryanair people working at Marseille base work illegaly because they dont have french contracts.
And last, but not least, In CDG we speak french because we are in our country. Check what annex 10 of ICAO says !!! it will be the same in MAD, FCO, etc...
English people are frustrated because they cant understand anything else than english."

I have to support nuageblanc on this ! :D

[captplaystation]

astronaute, did I miss something or did you say somethin new except :D ?

Repeating bullsh1t doesn't change it from being bullsh1t into something more worthwhile, neither does highlighting it in bold type.
Anyway I responded to all these points if you could be bothered (or are capable of ) understanding my reply.

BTW I am neither English, nor frustrated, and I have a moderately good understanding of two other languages including yours, Despite this I still know it would be safer if everyone spoke the same language,it doesn't actually matter which one , but of course if we do change, as someone suggested, it will be something like Mandarin, very unlikely to be French. Point me to a study that shows speaking more than 1 language on the frequency enhances safety (as opposed to one of French origin which seeks to prove there is no loss of safety, which is patently ridiculous as well as biased.) Of course I don't expect, regardless of the safety benefits, that French will be banished in French airspace as that would be tantamount to admitting that in fact it is English not French that is the most commonly used foreign language worldwide and for that reason has been adopted for ATC communications.

[The Real Slim Shady]

I have never heard a French pilot, who worked for a company other than AF, say a single good word about AF.

The French: nobody likes them and they don't like each other.

[Jetdriver]

one, uno, une!