Confused about loads?

[coded_messages]

I thought we're supposed to be suffering as far as loads are concerned?

Anyone seen the load factors out of Europe for the next 2 weeks? :ugh:

[quadspeed]

How about you tell me what they're paying for those seats before you get so confused?

[HardRock]

Just checked,
HKG-LHR return
CX 14,917.00 hkd
BA 11,627.00 hkd
Slightly different dep and arr times, but same days.

[quadspeed]

And those fares apply to which of our corporate customers who buy their seats in bulk?

[Kitsune]

How about YOU telling us what the break even price/load factor is quadspeed?:cool:

[quadspeed]

As if I fu(king know....

I was merely pointing out that high loads don't necessarily mean high profit. I get paid to fly the airplanes... others get paid to sell the seats and put some of that money into my bank account.
:bored:

[Dragon69]

quadspeed,


high loads don't necessarily mean high profit


nor does it necessarily mean that it is all doom and gloom which what coded_messages was trying to point out.....maybe they shouldn't even pay you to fly airplanes.

[ACMS]

Off the last 8 sectors around Asia in the last 2 weeks only ONE sector hasn't been full. ( even that sector had 250 PAX )

405 POB to SIN last week.
The next day 398 incl 1 jump back to HK

I'm sure that premium pax are down a bit but what the heck???

[geh065]

Same here...90% of my flights have been full or close to it. A decent amount of cargo too. I doubt Cx are operating flights at a loss, so whats the real story?

[ron burgandy]

And don't forget the 79 empty aeroplanes to Aussie each week.....:ok:

[Australia2]

Ron,

Just spent a day and a half in the SYD terminal to get back, jump seat in the end (MANY THANKS TO CREW!) after missing 2 MEL services on the way down.

Yep, AUS is really quiet !

Cheers

[Captain Dart]

My last few flights out of AUS still full, latest at Max Structural, full of pax and sea food. Southbound nearly full.
Last regional flight, one on jump seat down, solid load back.

Fuel hedging costs and cargo fine are management's problems, not mine.

[Dan Winterland]

"Fuel hedging costs and cargo fine are management's problems, not mine."

But I'm sure the management have ideas about how they're going to make it our problem. Hence all the doom and gloom!

[HardRock]

I got those prices straight off the internet.

[Azamat Bagatov]

Just checked out loads for many outports, and Hong Kong outbound. What I found MOST interesting, are the loads to Australia.
Sydney and Melbourne, just to name these two only are showing RED for what seems an eternity, and this raises a question : How the F&*% are we, STAFF of THIS company supposed to travel around the network to our homes, wherever that may be, if under 'normal' circumstances we're downgraded to Economy to allow Check-in staff to look after 'their own' and where Economy is showing as TOTALLY RED for the whole period around Chinese New Year and after !

Does this mean, because the locals have their New Year coming up, that the rest of us will suffer ??? Does this mean, that for someone with 1-3 weeks holidays around that time, wishing to visit his family for a SUPER-BELATED Christmas or a chance at some kind of New Year ('cos he/she HAD to work both of them!!!), that they stand a chance of NOT being able to get home ??? Some f*%^ing Travel system we have in place !!!!
Oh let me see, but of course, just as 'Travel Desk' suggests, let's use the Jump Seat section if we're having trouble finding a seat on a flight... like that will work, considering how many of us there are, competing for sometimes ONE seat because the Airbus (for Oz routes, as an example) is either overbooked (classic line they use at Hong Kong check-in) or weight-limited...
Then again, there's the FOC, the one that's NOT free anyway, but moreso seems to get people BUMPED OFF a flight, rather than confirming anything as concrete in the first place.
It's either the a**holes upstairs DON'T know what they're doing, or there's LOTS of bullsh*t being fed to staff ("Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen" MIGHT work in a relationship, f*&^-knuckles)...
It's times of the year like this where we're being screwed over, again and again ! We work for you over Xmas and/or New Year - at least send a priority travel note to check-in staff to get us on the flights we need to see our families, for f*&%'s sake !!!
Rant over.. Merry Xmas ? Bah humbug !

[Hairbus]

Let me guess why the flights are full. Its Christmas:ugh:

[boocs]

Azamat,
No offence, but Xmas, CNY, School Holidays in Oz..... These are always very difficult if next to impossible for Staff Travel out of HKG. Perhaps secure a full fare ticket if you need to travel in these times, next time.
b.

[1200firm]

But we're in a financial tsunami,no one is traveliing,lets all jump off the balcony.
Oil at $38 a barrel;we must be rakin' in the dough right.:ok:

[indiscipline_girl]

But we're in a financial tsunami


Hey now get the mouth music right, it's a devastating financial tsunami. tut tut.:=

[stillalbatross]

this may be why pilots don't make a very good job of running an airline. Every other finanical report in HKG is saying the worst is yet to come and the belt tightening and layoffs haven't filtered through.

Loads are also appearing ok because we are talking about forward bookings, people don't usually book and then fly the next day. These are bookings from mid-late 2008.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo, if you have a look at March April May 2009 you will see that it isn't so flash. Go ask Revenue.

Or if you are convinced that a full plane out of SYD equates to a current economic boom in aviation pick up Flight International, start at the back, and peruse the token Islander job in the Falklands as there doesn't appear to be much else.

[leftof]

Come on some common sense here, for over twenty years that I know of it has been near impossible to get on at Christmas and Chinese New Year. If you really want to go at that time of year you have to pay to go as a client, not a staff member ...simple...it has been like this for many years and will hopefully be so in the future.
I don't believe looking at the bookings at this time of year will give you a true indication of what is really going on, it is what is on the books for after the Easter period that will probably tell the story.

[geh065]

stillalbatross,

Even in boom times, travel desk does not show much for 4-5 months down the line.

As for Flight International, the adverts in the back only account for a small percentage of the job adverts they have. If you look on their website or get the e-mail lists, you will see there are plenty of jobs still out there including ones on big shiny jets.

[ACMS]

If I had a dollar for every time the company complained about forward bookings only to find out later that loads were good I'd not need the 13th month.

CX are spinning this as hard as their litttle legs will go.

[stillalbatross]

Really Geh,

I just had a chat with Parc about a job during the Leave without pay period. Those (obviously) lying sods say that the number of contract jobs is down about 45% from this time a year ago, they would say that wouldn't they?

ACMS, a how-far-out-of-touch-with-it's-lower-level-members-could-the-AOA-possibly-be question. How many years to command assessment from DOJ will a senior F/O be doing these days?

[ACMS]

Still.............didn't think you were allowed to work whilst on LWOP?

And please re-write your last paragraph using English, I don't speak gobbledeegook.

Cheers

[hongkongfooey]

90+ % of flights to SYD,CDG,LHR,PER and MEL are red over the next week, could'nt be jacked looking at any more.
Any company minded sycophantic spin doctors care to comment ?
( most kids have been on hols for over 2 weeks now )

[Kitsune]

EEEErrrrmm, doesn't that mean that the little b*stards will be going back to their Borstals over the next week.....:hmm:

[hekokimushi]

YVR also full. i DT out of YVR. got downgraded to Y.... :yuk:

[hongkongfooey]

Yes Kits, hopefully :ok:

[1200firm]

Forget staff travel.I just booked HKG-MNL-HKG with 5J.It is FREE!!! plus taxes(total about HK$360 return).Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! CX staff travel can go f**k itself..............

[sizematters]

such sparkling wit and repartee....................

If we are hurting so much

How come I am in Overtime in January ??

[hongkongfooey]

I would like to leave HK for a week or so in the beginning of Feb.
Every flight I have checked is red, so to save me time and frustration maybe someone can tell me where I can go that's not red :confused:
( Be nice !! )

[Dan Winterland]

Wuhan.
Changsha.
Chonquing.
Dalain.
Shenyang.


Enjoy!

[Freehills]

Chennai, Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi, Shanghai. There are some nice beach resorts just south of Madras (Chennai) You might not have time to get an Indian visa though...

[hongkongfooey]

Yep, well I guess I asked for that did'nt I :ugh::E
Maybe I should have said somewhere nice....and unpolluted :confused:

[Kitsune]

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Fresh warning on China bird flu (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7839099.stm)

[400 Jockey]

Tried buying a full fare to SIN recently, the price was $9.5K HKD Hardly a price slash now is it?

[seventy-seven]

Cathay management are the worlds masters at disguising everything from load factors to profits.What you see is NOT what you you get!

[N1 Vibes]

Note that many flight's are RED on the total numbers, but that the front end/biz does seem to be getting lighter. Can't remember where I heard this fact - but allegedly - in normal times if CX doesn't fill a biz seat on a sector it needs to fill 7 econ seats to make the same margin. But as also quoted earlier - i'm not a CX account manager and therefore don't have a clue how the system works.

Of course for those of you still living in your own little worlds - look around you. Markets in a flap, major corporations and banks (even whole countries)going down the toilet, stock brokers screwing people out of billions of dollars and now being found out - etc. Lovely quote from Warren Buffet in 2001 (who knows a thing or two):

You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.

So I would hazard a guess that an international airline based in HKG, a financial and logistics hub, and being only 1hr from the worlds LV and Nike production centre - we might be in a bit of a pickle due to people tightening there belts during these times.....

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[Dragon69]

Always brainwashed by company propaganda eh N1! Things are such in a pickle that they had to increase frequency to Shanghai, Jakarta and Paris. :ugh::ugh:

[Max Reheat]

Just came back from BKK last night with Mrs Reheat and there were 27 pax total on board! And that included us 2 on ID tickets and 2 PX crew on a 777.
I shouldn't think the revenue from that even covered the cost of the catering let alone fuel/crew/leasing costs!!!
I know its CNY and that this was a single flight in isolation but.......:uhoh:

[buzz box]

was it a charter flight? ie with a 2 at the start of the flight num? There tends to be a few of these which operate full one-way and empty the other...

[Max Reheat]

Nope, CX 702.

[Spander]

Time to put some of KA A320 on this route maybe? It will at least be cheaper to operate than an A330.

[Kitsune]

Air France-KLM issues new profit warning
By Kevin Done, Aerospace Correspondent

Published: January 20 2009 10:24 | Last updated: January 20 2009 10:24

Air France-KLM, the largest European airline, issued a further profit warning on Tuesday reflecting the weakening demand for air travel as the performance of the global economy worsens.

It said in a statement that it expected to report an operating loss for its third quarter from October to December. It still expected to remain in operating profit for the full year to the end of March, but warned the level of profit would depend on how the economic situation evolved in the coming weeks.


Shares in Air France-KLM fell by 6 per cent in early trading on Tuesday.

The group, which has recently agreed to become the industrial partner of the restructured Alitalia with a 25 per cent stake, is being hit by declining passenger and, in particular, cargo revenues, while at the same time its extensive fuel hedging is preventing it from benefiting in full from the sharp decline in oil prices.

“The deterioration in the economic environment during the third quarter has led to a slight weakening in passenger unit revenues and a strong decline in cargo revenue. Unit costs were not able to benefit from lower oil prices because of the negative effect of the oil hedges,” it said.

In its first six months from April to September, Air France-KLM profits came under pressure from record fuel costs for much of the period. Its net profit plunged by 84 per cent as it was also hit by non-cash charges to revalue hedging instruments.

The group has issued two previous profit warnings since last summer.

It has reduced its planned capacity growth during the winter has cut capital spending. It is also taking action to cut a further €260m of costs.

Air France-KLM achieved record operating profits of €1.41bn last year and originally forecast last May an operating profit in the current financial year of around €1bn.

In November, it said it was cutting its planned capital investment by €1.4bn over two years, as it changed strategy to prioritise saving cash over spending on new aircraft in the face of the growing uncertainties in the global economy.

It is delaying planned aircraft purchases — mainly by not converting options into firm orders — of as many as 15 Boeing 777 wide-body jets and is choosing instead to keep flying some of its older 747-400 Jumbo jets.

Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, who was promoted to chief executive at the beginning of the year with his predecessor Jean-Cyril Spinetta remaining as chairman, is also setting out to simplify the management organisation and to intensify efforts to cut costs.

The group said “to cope with the crisis marked by shrinking demand and therefore a slowdown in activity,” cost control had become “ever more vital.” Simplifying the organization was a way “to increase efficiency and responsiveness to the crisis.”

It was planning to rationalise the general management structure and the operations sectors.

Air France-KLM also said it had also appointed Jean-Louis Pinson to the position of partnership manager, based in Rome, under the terms of the recent deal signed with Alitalia.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009

[hongkongfooey]

if CX doesn't fill a biz seat on a sector it needs to fill 7 econ seats

how 'bout when the gas is 70% cheaper ?? how many seats does CX not need to fill on say a HK-LAX sector when the fuel bill is $46000USD instead of $146,000USD ?? why the :mad: does this never get mentioned ?

[Fly747]

Dragon69 those extra PVGs are at KA's expense so not extra to the "Group". It is all smoke and mirrors.

[yokebearer]

Oh come one - it should be fairly easy to figure why J is still full - they are upgrading their frequent flyers in economy!!

It builds brand loyalty and makes them come back for more.

[F_one]

"in normal times if CX doesn't fill a biz seat on a sector it needs to fill 7 econ seats to make the same margin"

Can't see any truth here, CX spend less than HK$1.00/meal in economy, and less than HK$5.00/meal in business. Seven times the weight to carry means more fuel, yes. But seven y-class tickets will make up for it. Unless some people pay astronomical prices for the opportunity to join the world's elite in CX business.....