Please answer this unusual question!

[nuclear weapon]

I have been working as an airline pilot for close to a year now in west Africa. Unfortunately corruption is rife and therefore has corroded the quality of the infastructures in the aviation indfustry. The sad thing in a lot of cases is that they have the money to buy the best but often at times this money is lying in someones swiss account.
My question to you guys in the atc business is this how much does a radar cost. Or to put it better a total radar coverage of a country the size of the United Kingdom concidering the fact that we have less than a tenth of the traffic.
Thanks in advance

[Thunderbug]

Are there not plans to introduce CPDLC over Africa?

(A/C self report position via Satellite to a ground station that then produce a radar like presentation of the traffic)

This has the advantage of reducing the infrastructure required on the ground which has to be maintained, can be nicked, etc...., but does not show aircraft that are not appropriately equipped.

I believe that the US is proposing plans that will replace the current radar enviroment and ground based nav-aids with a GPS, Mode S (ADS), CPDLC, type ATC system. The main reason being the reduced costs to the FAA.

[Scooby Don't]

A good question, and alarmingly difficult to answer.

Someone will have a better idea of the cost of the London ACC at Swanwick, though I'm thinking UKP600 million, or about $1 billion. BUT, that didn't include the radar sites which were already in service around the country. It did, however, include flight data processing systems that are probably unnecessary, at least in terms of complexity, for somewhere like Nigeria for example. In reality (notwithstanding the fact that Swanwick in the normal course of events is only controlling half the UK's domestic airspace), such a centre is probably far more than you'd need for a country of similar size but with, say, two or three airports requiring a dedicated terminal/approach sector.

Let's assume you have three airports requiring terminal/approach control but each can be manned from one console plus a spare (possibly a shared spare depending on reliability and maintainability). Then we'll assume each terminal will have an area/en-route sector feeding the terminal, and each of these can be split thus needing an additional 6 consoles plus spares (at least 2). Beyond that, you'll need additional sectors (guessing here, but maybe 5?) covering the rest of the country and probably with a high/low split to handle traffic going in and out of smaller aerodromes and grass/dirt strips in the bush (so that's 10 sectors of area, but some of them probably don't need to be manned all the time, thus reducing the number of spare consoles required). Somewhere between 20 and 25 radar consoles will probably give very decent coverage, though in reality there should be a back-up facility with most of the capability of the centre. You'd have probably a maximum of 40 controllers on duty, and probably a total compliment of 150. Then it's a choice of assistants (maybe 10 on duty, 40 total) and a simple FDPS, or fewer assistants and a more expensive FDPS.

Outside the centre, you need the radars themselves. Topography will play a large part in your requirements. If the UK was as flat as a billiard table, you could probably cover the whole country down to 2,000 feet with only 7 or 8 co-located PSR/SSR antennae, plus those for the approach units (in our assumed example, at the airports with terminals may or may not be geographically conveniently located to share their radars with the area sectors. More hills equals more radars needed.

On top of that, there will be a requirement for NAVAIDS, though probably not a vast number. A VOR/DME for each major airport, plus maybe a couple of en-route VOR/DMEs may be all you need.

Linking everything together will take a mix of cabling and microwave comms, and let's not forget VHF radio comms though that's probably the inexpensive bit. If the country already has an extensive and reliable telephone network, both radar data and radio comms can use the phone network to get to the centre though there should be some back-up systems.

I would guess that all of the above could be down for around $200 million, but that is a guess pulled from the ether.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

I have been involved in such type of project for two years. From zero to anything.
My personal experience is that cost for Radar or any other advance ground/satellite based device together with related civil works and software is nothing if you comparing with other costs,that are hidden and usually out of management point of view.
So my rough estimate will be: Z(money for RDR,civil works,software)
than you should add: Training costs for ATCOs and other staff Zx2(at least)
Document "production" Z/2
Negotiating with neighbors- Z/4 (if you are lucky)
Other costs not mentioned above- Z

When we calculate all those inputs overall costs are anything above 3 x Z+3/4 xZ + Z

But it is just top of ice berg. New ACC if your starting point is zero is mega project and you will face with: lack of qualified people and no one will give you advice for free. Especially it will be very hard to receive full understanding from higher level.

[DiCampo]

So you're saying 4 and 3/4 'Z' ?
That still doesn't really say anything without a number on the Z...
Good way to show the hidden/not obvious costs though.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@Di Campo,
appreciate your comment but Z differs significantly . From particular case to case.
At first their requirements will be quite different than any other in the world.
The second,tender procedure and guys/girls in charge for this are also different
The third ,level of corruption varies between countries
The forth, companies that produces equipment (Thales,Indra...) have different approaches to different markets
The fifth, nothing will prevent suppliers to sell 'small" system differences. It will cost you latter on.
The sixth, there is no guarantee that it is the end when you are trying to determine Z

So,from my point of you I gave as much as possible correct answer.
I can't say anything about Z costs but other costs that is related to new ACC is possible to determine if you accept my formula( accept corrections) . And I think that Z costs they will find first and very easy.
Than problem occurs. They will need more money but higher level will say:
Sorry,what do you want? More money? No. We gave you enough money. Isn't the system the best of the best at the market? Yes. So?

[nuclear weapon]

scooby dont,
I dont think any African country needs anything on the scale of Swanwick as the aircraft movements in these countries pales in comparism to that of UK. A very good example is the controllers in Accra in Ghana the can spot you from over 150nm and unlike Nigeria you barely have to say anything on the radio.
You are absolutely right that topography plays a huge part in how many of such you'll need. If a rader can cover a circular area of radius 150nm you are already covering most countries and over 85% of the very big ones. But the topography of most countries wont let that happen unless you are in the sahara. My basic argument is still that with only a fraction (less than 5-10%) in most cases of the traffic you have in Most European countries. We wont need to spend as much money on a system that will be very effective if our leaders could care less.

[RaRadar]

From the NATS website:

"National Air Traffic Services' ambitious :rolleyes: £127 million programme to replace its entire UK radar network by 2012."

RR