Rude but not aggressive passengers [Archive]

ProM

2nd Dec 2008, 10:20

There is the other thread about passengers so offensive they can/should be offloaded. What about the much lower level stuff. The sort who thinks that the cabin crew are there to wait on them personally and to hell with anyone else. They complain about the food, their seat, the IFE, other passengers using the reading light when they want to sleep, the temperature...

I think they are more common nearer the front than the back, but not exclusively

Now I fly a fair bit on various transatlantic runs and encounter such types every now and again. My inclination when they are giving CC a hard time is to say "Oh ffs just stop whinging and shut up". However I always restrain myself on the basis that saying anything (even something more tactful) would just make the situation worse and feel that the best I can do is offer a sympathetic smile to the CC.

However is this right? - would you want us to say anything (more tactful than my first choice) to help?

p.s. I am also always tempted to do stuff like turn their IFE to a rock station and on full volume while they are in the loo - but don't

CornishFlyer

2nd Dec 2008, 11:35

I was operating on a flight from London to Warsaw and when preparing the cabin for landing, an English-speaking Polish lad, her husband and their daughter were sat towards the rear and I politely asked the lady to strap her daughter onto her lap using the lap belt used for landing. The child had no form of discipline at all and was refusing to sit down properly to which the mother said "She won't sit down, look". I informed her that unless the child was correctly seated we would be unable to land but made a thing of it as if to say that she was unable to do anything about it. I finished securing the rest of my area and went back to the lady who had still got no further with getting her child to sit down properly. At this point I had to be a bit more assertive as we were getting very low so she reluctantly pulled the child onto her lap, kicking and screaming and we landed fine.

As we slowed down on the runway, I saw the child then in the aisle obviously totally unrestrained but still moving at around 40 knots so I obviously had to go back to the lady and tell her that her child needs to sit down until we stop completely. Again she made a huge fuss and refuse. At this point I then insisted that the child sit down and stay there until the seatbelt signs were released for her own safety as the mother seemed to have no grasp of the fact this was all for her daughter's safety and not just for her to have an easy life because of her ill-disciplined child. This time she got the message and the child was sat on her seat, again making a huge amount of noise.

During disembarkation, I was smiling at everyone and saying thank you, goodbye etc and even smiled at the lady who had caused so much trouble however instead of just getting off normally, she just looked at me and said, "You c*nt". I was totally shocked. My colleague who was with me at the door just looked at me and unfortunately, she wasn't the most calm of people and actually followed her down the steps and gave her a piece of her mind.

I just couldn't believe it. Because her daughter had no discipline and she just wanted to have an easy life, regardless of the safety of her daughter and the other passengers who also may have been injured, she felt it was necessary to abuse ME! Some people are just full of class!

Pilotinmydreams

2nd Dec 2008, 11:44

jetset lady

2nd Dec 2008, 11:48

Ah! The "I'm determined to find something wrong, so that I can have a really bad flight" passenger. A fairly unusual species, although becoming more common. Can often to be found in a business suit, and as ProM has noticed, tends to congregate towards the nose of the aircraft, but a species that can provide many hours of amusement for the cabin crew!
I have always found that the best way to deal with these people is to become more and more sickly sweet the nastier they get. They hate that!

It reminds me of a passenger on my flight that was determined to cause a fuss over anything he could. He'd ordered a Kosher meal, but when I took it out to him he kicked off saying he didn't want that rubbish. No problem sir, I have a spare standard meal and I'll send a report to the exec club immediately for you, Sir! Then he didn't want to put his seat back upright while everyone else ate, so having empathised with him in my best, symathetic, "poor you, you must be so tired being such an obviously important and busy business man", manner, I found him a spare seat so he could sleep. This went on through the whole flight. Everything he complained about, I found an instant solution, (good luck was on my side!) and he got more and more frustrated. Finally, when securing the cabin for landing, he was obviously going for anything he could think of and yelled at me that my PA's were crap and he couldn't understand a word. Well obviously, I was very apologetic and just before I sat down, I did the lights for landing PA, which went something along the lines of;
"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....I WILL NOW BE DIMMING THE CABIN LIGHTS FOR LANDING....THIS IS NORMAL PROCEDURE......"
before sitting down and beaming at my disgruntled passenger whilst mouthing, "was that OK?" to him! The giggles from everyone else in club, who were heartedly sick of this man, not to mention the shocked faces of the other crew peering out from the rear galley, made it worth every second! :E

Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but in answer to your question, I'd have to say don't get involved. By saying something, you could be giving these people further fuel and that's exactly what they want. We, as crew, are used to dealing with this type of situation and know not to indulge their little tantrums. Think of how you'd deal with a 2 yr old, minus the naughty step, and you can't go far wrong.

Jsl

ProM

2nd Dec 2008, 11:50

Cornishflyer's post doesn't surprise me (althought it does disgust me). Aside from businessmen, many of whom think all safety regs do not apply to them, I have noticed that parents can be amonst thge worst.

Having had much time to think about such things I have concluded that a high proprortion of parents who take young children on flights (esp holiday flights) are very selfish, because the flight is for their benefit not their childrens (for whom a flight is hell and who would just as rather hoiday in cornwall as in the caribbean for example). Thus such people, beoing selfish, are more likely to react badly to safety instructions.

Of course they say the flight is so that Arabella can learn about different cultures or whatever. No, its so you can soak up some sun

I appreciate this is a sweeping generalisation so please don't be offended if you have taken your children on a flight and this doesn't apply to you, but I do believe there is an element of truth in it

jetset lady

2nd Dec 2008, 12:22

ProM,

People not listening to safety instructions is a whole different ball game and not something I will tolerate, especially after the flight I once operated. I'm not sure this is the ideal place for it, but seeing as it's been brought up, let me tell you what happened to us. If it makes even one person change their ways, it will be worth it.

We were operating a fairly short flight into a European destination. I'd been warned by the captain that it was likely to be bumpy coming into land, not unusual during the winter months, and I had passed this on to my crew. For this reason, we had planned to secure the cabin 15 minutes before landing instead of the usual 10 but, following a last minute shortcut, that went out of the window and we only had 10 minutes. I did the usual landing PA regarding seatbacks, seatbelts, computers etc as the crew started securing from the back. Yet on entering the cabin to start securing from the front, many people were still tapping away on their lap tops, going to the loo etc. As a result, it took longer than usual as we were having to stand over people while they put everything away. Having finally met the crew from the back, I told them to strap in and turned to go to my own jumpseat. Out the corner of my eye, I saw a child stand on the seat. Back I went, to speak to the parents and make sure they strapped her in. Again, I had to stand and wait as she didn't want a seatbelt on until I had to tell them to force her to wear it. I finally managed to get back to the front. Almost immediately after that, we hit previously unreported, severe turbulence. I wasn't strapped in as I'd been stuck in the cabin for so long. Luckily, I managed to grab a cupboard door and hung on for dear life. I wasn't touching the cabin floor. When we finally stabalised slightly, I was able to make it to my jumpseat. Thankfully, in this instance, no one was hurt but it doesn't bear thinking about what would have happened if I had not spotted the child that wasn't strapped in.

When people don't listen to instructions and think they can ignore the landing PA, they are putting us at risk! If we hadn't have had to spend so long in the cabin, I would have been safely sat down.

Please think about this the next time the seatbelt sign goes on.

Jsl

Final 3 Greens

2nd Dec 2008, 16:18

ProM said

Cornishflyer's post doesn't surprise me (althought it does disgust me). Aside from businessmen, many of whom think all safety regs do not apply to them, I have noticed that parents can be amonst thge worst.

This year to date, I have observed

No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0

No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2

No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1

Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?

PS: I am a businessman

Romeo India Xray

2nd Dec 2008, 17:04

Flying in Baltic Europe is a hot-spot for SLF thinking that main wheel touchdown is an indication to unbuckle and start retrieving overhead luggage - in one case I can remember while positioning out of RIX, all before the nose wheel was down.

When I am at the pointy end and hear the "remain seated" rant for the 3rd time, the temptation to cause an abrupt halt from 30kts to 0 in the space of a couple of seconds is so high as to be almost impossible to contain....... One day, and they won't do it again :ouch:

RIX

Juud

2nd Dec 2008, 17:05

Nice question ProM. The type of pax you mention is indeed a separate specimen. They are a strain on the CC, and their ceaseless time-consumption is detrimental to the other pax.

The procedural answer is let the CC deal with the attention seeker as they are trained to do.
Then again......

These people often play for the gallery, their fellow pax, in the mistaken belief that everybody around them agrees with their jaundiced view of everything and everybody. The approval they percieve from their neighbours appears to feed them.
I have seen a number of instances where, as soon as their fellow pax quietly or loudly, pointed out that they did not in fact agree at all with the attention seeker and heartily supported the CC, the misbehaviour stopped abruptly.

So I for one am always very grateful when a fellow passenger politely or jokingly interferes and puts an end to the behaviour.
Not a very clear answer is it? ;)

... may years ago on the upperdeck of a 747. group of top echelon chaps from our country's biggest bank and a group from a large petroleum company.
The bankers, one of them in particular, were claiming their unfair share of attention, being very rude to the CC and never stopped whingeing. It was as if they were egging each other on to greater feats of rudeness, with one particularly obnoxious ringleader.

Over the pond a petroleum engineer could take no more.
"Hey you big important Banker man. If you hate it so much here, why don't you do us all a favour and fly Virgin next time? Take Branson's balloon and with any luck they won't chuck you out the basket half way!"
Much laughter on the whole upperdeck, and no more whingeing from the bankers. The Oilman had turned the atmosphere around with one yelled sentence, and suddenly all the other bankers privately advised us that their colleague was a known jack@ss and they'd report him to higher management.
The bankers got the service they had paid for, the Oilers got pampered within an inch of their lives.

CornishFlyer

2nd Dec 2008, 17:09

Hmm, well I've been flying for 6 years and never seen a crew member unsecured for t/o or landing so you must be a very lucky guy ;) However as it is our job to make sure all the pax are strapped in, I've never seen that either

As for the engines powering up, I'm guessing you're referring to when doing so for takeoff. Again, unless it's safety related, I've never seen this happen however the amount of people making a huge fuss when on secure goes well into treble figures but unfortunately a large number are businessmen who do seem to think that the regs are more of an inconvenience to them instead of a safety mechanism for them and everyone else. Of course not all businessmen are like this as I am sure you are not F3G but unfortunately there are a lot that don't follow your example

StaceyF

2nd Dec 2008, 18:06

I know that airlines need every passenger they can get at the moment but abuse to CC like that should be met with a ban from any future flights from on that airline. I've worked with the general public for many years in a different capacity and there's no way I would take someone talking to me like that. So sorry that you had to receive that kind of treatment from someone who you were trying to keep safe!

Alas, a reflection on society in general.

This isn't relevant to air travel but reinforces the point; rough as rags neighbours two doors up did a midnight flit from their property over the weekend.

I guess they owed rent or something but in their haste to leave they left behind two four month old kittens (who we already knew were flea-ridden and underfed) to fend for themselves outdoors.

Sat/Sun/Mon here in the UK has been bitterly cold........small animals die in the sorts of temperatures we've experienced. We couldn't get near the cats because they're timid but we made sure food was available for them.

The guy pitched back up today and gave us a mouthful for "interfering", I won't repeat his language :ugh::ugh:

The chav-mentality is all around us, unfortunately you CC are stuck in a metal tube with them :sad:

Abusing_the_sky

2nd Dec 2008, 18:37

This year to date, I have observed

No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0

No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2

No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1

Now, would you like not reconsider your little rant?

PS: I am a businessman

Final 3, with all due respect, is it just me who thinks you have a very strong desire to put CC down?

Surely, as posted in other threads, you are "the nice business man pax". However, may i contradict you with regards to the above?

No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0

Because CC have gone back to them and ensured that they ARE strapped in.

No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2

See above

No of CC not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 2

No of CC running to make seat whilst engines spooling up = 1

Again, see above. Could i also add that CC are expected AND! are aware of the fact that they have to put pax's safety over theirs. Surely not right, as we do live in a very selfish society, but dedicated CC go by this rule. It is in our blood after 6 odd years of flying.

Some pax will always "go off on one" and it's the "CC's fault". Either it's because they are tired, they are delayed for a meeting, they are disturbed by some bad news they just received or they are simply mean, unmannered, disturbingly mean pax who make not only CC's life hell, but the girl's behind the Tesco's till, the aisle cleaners' in Boots or the charity raiser in the local mall.

Some people are like that. Unfortunately, there is nothing the CC (sticking to the subject) can do. We kinda have to put up/deal with it.

Going back to the subject the thread starter proposed, i have to say i refuse (deep down inside, but never show it like it is) to put up with rude pax. I can send a rude, obnoxious pax to hell with the sweetest smile on my face (JSL's attitude:ok:) without them even noticing it. The nicest you are to them, the more annoyed/wind up they get. Such a blissful feeling...

And to stress this one more time, no CC, worldwide, is being paid enough/or is on his/hers job description, to put up with these society rejects. And i say again, common sense won't cost a penny. But then again, some pax don't have the words "obnoxious pax" in their vocabulary.

Rgds,
ATS

PS: Don't get me started on the pax i had last night, who refused to stow his laptop bag from an emergency exit row for landing because "someone might steal it". And the fact that he called me his "servant" didn't help...

Final 3 Greens

2nd Dec 2008, 20:57

ATS

Not because they were attending to pax.

One was doing something in the galley and had to run to his seat, the others were sitting down, talking to each other and apparently unaware that the aircraft had entered the active runway. as they had to rush to attach their harnesses.

BTW I was in seats 1C and 1D for thes two separate occurences, so had a pretty good view.

I don't wish to put any CC down, but the gratuitous stereotyping demanded a response, as does someone calling you a "servant", which is simply disgraceful.

I expect everyone to be reasonable and polite to each other.

dghob

3rd Dec 2008, 00:17

Final 3 Greens,

"No of pax not strapped in on commencing take off roll = 0"

Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.

Cheers:ok:

Bullethead

3rd Dec 2008, 02:34

Years ago, in the mob I fly for, the techies used to give the cabin a one minute warning to takeoff which sometimes wasn't enough with some c/c still rushing to get seated. After a little thought and discussion, with all concerned, the cabin manager now checks with all the c/c, via the cabin interphone, that they are all ready for takeoff and then gives the techies a report saying such. The pre-takeoff checklist cannot be completed without this report.

Regards,
BH.

Final 3 Greens

3rd Dec 2008, 06:36

Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.

Read my post again and you will will note that I said "This year to date, I have observed"

Does this enlighten you?

ProM

3rd Dec 2008, 13:00

Final 3. I too am a businessman. I'm hardly likely to tar us all with the same brush now am I? I'm just saying that familiarity breeds contempt with some

I don't know how many times you fly but I frequently see PAX taking belts off well before the a/c has reached the gate (sometimes before the end of roll-out), or ignoring seat belt sign when cruising in turbulence. You probably wouldn't see many from 1c/1d though, would you? I don't have a count because the number is too high.

I agree I don't see too many without belts on take off, possibly down to CC, but actually I haven't seen too many PAX needed to be told about that one.

rogerk

3rd Dec 2008, 13:10

Final 3 Greens

3rd Dec 2008, 14:17

I don't know how many times you fly

Just done my 120th this year and I've been travelling on business since 1978.

CornishFlyer

3rd Dec 2008, 14:26

I hope it was incident-less and all the pax were belted up ;) You actually count the sectors you've flown tho? How come?

Final 3 Greens

3rd Dec 2008, 14:44

How come?

Tax reasons, as in logging how many days I spend in various jurisdictions, when I arrive and when I leave.

Have to keep the boarding passes, too, quite a pain :\

apaddyinuk

3rd Dec 2008, 17:14

Quote:
Curious as to how you can determine that. Show of hands? Somehow count the clicks as seatbelts are put on? Post-flight exit poll? Enlighten me please.

Read my post again and you will will note that I said "This year to date, I have observed"

Does this enlighten you?

Well that is a rather unfair "observation" of yours as you also claim on most occassions you were sitting in 1C or D meaning that your eyes were facing forward, you only had a view of either your neighbours in row one and the galley and have no way of seeing the couple of hundred passengers behind you, some perhaps up to 40 rows behind....so how could you possibly "observe" the passengers who have not fastened their seat belts? However you are facing the galley and therefore can pick up on every itty bitty little thing that you feel inappropriate or incorrect that the crew do.
In the mean time you fail to observe the crew member diplomatically dealing with the gobsheen in row 10 or the mother who swears she is the very first person to travel alone with a child in the history of human kind in row 20 and is making the crews day hell resulting in them making the most of the few minutes of calm that exists following the cabin secure checks and the taxi to the end of the runway!!!

Final 3 Greens

3rd Dec 2008, 18:17

Paddy

Put away your outrageous indigation, for what I said was (a) fact and (b) no less blinkered than the specific comment I was responding to, which was about business thinking safety rules didn;t apply to them..

every itty bitty little thing that you feel inappropriate or incorrect that the crew do.

When I learned to fly, it was an offence under the ANO to depart with people who were not strapped in.

I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.

CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.

But you can't have it both ways my old china.

GGR

3rd Dec 2008, 19:43

Crew probably busy with your colleagues turning off stuff etc. Get over yourself you will not be last off.............probably

Anti-ice

3rd Dec 2008, 19:59

It's a difficult call, and as long as you respond to their rudeness in a good way, further disruption can be avoided.

Alcohol is more often than not the cause or a manifestation of their own stress (often nothing to do with the airline, just their high maintenance lifestyle. :rolleyes: )

I had one young guy among a group once, travelling Business who thought he was the hotshot bar none.
It was a night flight to South America.
He showed off by getting increasingly rude and demanding towards the crew, and quickly got drunk by obtaining drinks from 6 different crewmembers.
Eventually we had a word with him,subtly and diplomatically which he took as a cue to get really nasty.
All of his colleagues got up and told him in no uncertain terms that he was making a fool of himself (in front of his boss) and to shut up and apologise.
He refused to apologise and was also issued a warning letter.

We weren't bothered he didn't apologise,you meet these types now and then, part of the job.
Later in the flight when all were asleep, he woke up choking on the litre of red wine he'd drunk - within seconds it was all down his (white) shirt ,suit and partly on his colleague/the aircraft bulkhead!
After we'd assisted and checked he was okay, he almost demanded that one of us give him one of our packed work shirts to improve his appearance/get out of the reeking wet shirt. Now, with anyone else we probably would have done - with this joker no way :ok: :}

Final 3 Greens

3rd Dec 2008, 20:14

Anti Ice

That is truly appalling behaviour.

I must be lucky, because I don't see this kind of behaviour (I am not challenging your description of events.)

I've seen some other pax be rude (in fact, the last occurence was only last week), but never anyone behave this way.

Unbelievable.

Let me also say that your colleagues and you must have demonstrated some high quality customer facing skills in dealing with that incident.

On a more practical note, I always carry a spare shirt on overnight flights (normally a long sleeved polo to keep me warm when sleeping) and am surprised that such a hotshot wouldn't.

jetsetjobbie

3rd Dec 2008, 20:51

How about a warning on tickets and on the inflight entertainment screen that says -

"Any pax ignoring the seat belt or safety instructions from CC will recieve no form of compensation from this airline in the event of injury"

How about another note to inform pax who leave their seat prematurely that they are personally liable for any injuries to fellow passengers and that the airline will release their details to the injured parties under such circumstances?

JsJ

apaddyinuk

3rd Dec 2008, 23:40

When I learned to fly, it was an offence under the ANO to depart with people who were not strapped in.

I am interested that you seem to consider this an 'itty biitty little thing.' An 'itty bitty little thing' for me is hearing indiscrete chit chat etc. and I don't worry about that at all.

CC on this forum complain about pax walking about when the seat belt sign is illuminated and say that it is a lawful commander's instruction (true) and I fully support them.

Sorry if it sounded like I was outraged by your post, I wasnt! Made of tougher stuff then that.

Actually Im not referring to the passengers not being strapped in as an itty bitty thing. Of course it is a big thing. Im referring to your point that you have never observed a passenger unfastened to their seat during take off yet you have seen crew where they shouldnt be. But then you are sitting strapped into row 1 and clearly are not in a position to be aware of what is going on outside of your eye and ear shot whatsoever.

Sadly passengers do have an "issue" with being buckled up and indeed many of them do discretely unfasten their seat belts once the cabin crew have completed their secure checks. It happens all the time and sadly I notice it more in the premium cabins from people who seem to think they are above all lawful requirements. Now as for these people, I personally could not care less if their actions cos them injury however I do have a problem with these selfish people causing injury to others and I am sure most would agree.

However as for making comments to passengers regarding the airlines liability in situations such as this, sadly it will not stand in a court of law as airlines are indeed liable for anyone in their charge. We can claim to a passenger that they are not insured and that they are disobeying the lawful command of aircrew however I can assure you that if something happens and it goes to court even a rookie lawyer will find a way to prosecute the airline. At BA we have been told never to claim that the passenger will be liable should they cause any injury when moving about a cabin when they should be seated for just this reason, not sure if its because they have learned their lesson but generally that is how these truths out!

Rush2112

4th Dec 2008, 04:32

Rudeness in all walks of life is on the increase: the lack of basic manners in people is one of the most depressing things in modern life. It's not surprising that CC get exposed to it more frequently as they are dealing with large numbers of people every working day.

Final 3 Greens

4th Dec 2008, 05:19

Actually Im not referring to the passengers not being strapped in as an itty bitty thing

I was referring to crew not being strapped in as the take off roll starts as being pretty serious, in fact appalling IMHO.

Whether anyone else was is not relevant to the point I was making.

Anyway, time to move on.

We all seem to agree that people who do not respect the seat belt sign are idiots.

atcojd

5th Dec 2008, 00:45

When I was cabin crew many years ago I found that the words 'I am a businessman' tended to be a precursor to behaviour normally associated with our old favorite 'do you know who I am!'

Rush2112

5th Dec 2008, 02:36

When I was cabin crew many years ago I found that the words 'I am a businessman' tended to be a precursor to behaviour normally associated with our old favorite 'do you know who I am!'

To which the new favourite response is "Excuse me everyone, there's a gentlemen here who doesn't know who he is. Can anyone help at all please?"

StaceyF

5th Dec 2008, 17:19

To which the new favourite response is "Excuse me everyone, there's a gentlemen here who doesn't know who he is. Can anyone help at all please?"

:ok::D:ok::D:ok::D

wings folded

5th Dec 2008, 18:42

I was once in the dreadful queue at JFK for immigration, you know what I mean, a dozen 747s arrive at once and immigration are totally taken by surprise, as if it had never happened before. A bloke barges to the front of the queue. Some people remonstrate. He wheels out the "Do you know who I am" routine. Sardonic immigration man says "Jesus fecking christ, got the whole United Nations coming through, and now I've got a guy who does not know who he is"

PAX did not get to beat the queue, the rest of us enjoyed the response and waited with better grace. I dare say not a response in any manual, but a good reaction as it turned out.

flash8

2nd Jan 2009, 16:52

Discipline in the Cabin in the West is one thing. I have flown for an Airline (South East Asian) where the concept of Passenger Management is unheard of.

The Commanders were first rate, Professional and almost with exception very kind individuals who tolerated no SOP deviation up front - total Aces - the CC were of a different character (and planet perhaps) altogether. I often wondered who was in command of the a/c.

You dare not confront them either. Your life would be hell. And they knew it.

However I rather miss working there - it was another world.

paull

2nd Jan 2009, 18:52

I have seen CC out of their seats, in that case also due to an engrossing private (content) conversation at public (volume). In that case down the back on Easyjet. I have also departed with the guy next to me with NO seatbelt. The clasp was missing, torn off, the plane was full, last flight AF, Orly to Nice Friday night. I went to call the CC about it and the guy said to me that I should shut up or he would be thrown off the flight, If I felt so strongly about it then why not swap seats with him and be offloaded. After we landed I asked for his boarding card and handed it in as I left the plane saying that the belt was broken, I got such a mouthful from the stewardess (who did not care to listen that it was not my seat) that I was not surprised that no-one reported it earlier in the day.

However, my pet hate is this:
'CC who have not been trained how to open overhead lockers properly'
The number of times that I have seen these things popped open like there was a competition to see who could get them to bounce open the fastest is incredible. Most airlines do it properly, open slowly, look inside, put hand inside etc., etc, but I have to say that I think Easyjet missed this from their training. This is a surprise because in many other respects they seem really keen on safety and they check underseat storage better than anyone, they just seem to have a blind spot on overhead lockers. I have seen lots of coats fall out and a couple of bags too, so far with no-one really hurt but the last time only because I got my arm in the way before it hit the old lady's head.
So, is it not included in the training or is it just that CC height limits are lower, I have to admit that most cases involved CC who were short?

jetsetjobbie

2nd Jan 2009, 19:39

The 'Opening overhead lockers' training course is usually sandwiched between the emergency firefighting/dealing with disruptive passengers and the life raft survival/pilot incapacitation drills.

Unfortunately, with the self defence/restraint training and 29 exams, it is often not given the full attention it deserves.

"the trouble with common sense is that it is not that common"

JsJ

pacamack

7th Jan 2009, 13:59

I would hope that I'm not rude to anyone, but I've always abided by two rules in particular:

- Never be rude to people who serve you food

- Never be rude to people who cut your hair

These have both served me well to date (although people who look at me may disagree that I haven't broken the second one!).

SLF3b

14th Jan 2009, 17:08

gadgetman

14th Jan 2009, 17:36

You all seem to have it in for businessmen. My experience is that most of us are knackered most of the time, and all we want is a quiet life. Wine us, dine us, dim the lights, let us go to sleep. The most outrageous behaviour I have seen in business class is from people who obviously don't fly there very often and think the whole point of the exercise is to get drunk. As a general statement, the more senior the guy the less he has to prove. It is the people who have not made it who make a fuss. Just feel sorry for them.

Got that right.
The frequent travelers know what is on offer, and know the procedures. No fuss, just make sure the seat works, the white wine is chilled and the meal service doesn't take 3 hours. They appreciate competence more than all the service frills.

Like you said, it's the up-and-comers and the wannabes who think they have to prove how important they are who increase the workload and monopolize the crew's time.

Impress to inflate

16th Jan 2009, 09:50

I used to fly helicopters to the rigs in the north sea out of Denmark. We would tell the pax to remain seated with there seatbelts done up until the blades have stopped turning and the doors had been opened. The Danish pax would start un-doing there seat belts as soon as we taxied in. After a while, we would advance the engines back into flight and sit there until they had strapped back in again. It only took a couple of times doing that until they realised we were not joking. Worked a treat !!

Wader2

16th Jan 2009, 11:08

Not flying but I can relate to being possibly being rude but more accurately wound up.

The event was a dirty area and my whites covered in soot. I was wound up and wanted satisfaction. A gentle smile and "let us launder them for you" defused the situation.

So, rather than the SLF that is looking for any excuse to exert authority or seek redress, a simple and effective response will often defuse the situation.

Back to flying, the whole process of getting to the airport on time, packing, unloading the car, trolley and bus to the terminal, the queue to checkin, the queue for security, the strip search (I exagerate), the 'interminable' wait after the boarding now call, all add stress to what may be a stressful situation.

OTOH, we were bused to New Orleans some 6 hours before scheduled departure and 7 hours before ATD, (I have moved New Orleans down to bottom of my favourites). I guess by the time we were boarded any rudeness and aggression had been bored out of us.

All credit to the crew, with a 160kts jet stream we made up time lost.

vancouv

22nd Jan 2009, 14:14

If the take-off roll has been commenced, and you notice a passenger has undone his seatbelt, what are you supposed to do? Get up and talk to him? Tell the flight deck? Nothing?

Final 3 Greens

22nd Jan 2009, 14:36

The frequent travelers know what is on offer, and know the procedures. No fuss, just make sure the seat works, the white wine is chilled and the meal service doesn't take 3 hours. They appreciate competence more than all the service frills.
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

radeng

28th Jan 2009, 13:00

I always thank the CC when getting off, and ask them to thank the flight deck crew, too. But I sometimes wonder if they appreciate it.

Ten West

28th Jan 2009, 21:02

I'm sure they appreciate it. :ok:

Good manners cost nothing. I always thank the Cabin Crew and wish them a pleasant day when I disembark too.

Sadly, too many people these days think rudeness and aggression is the way to get what they want.
I worked in retail management in a previous job, and I've had swearing, threats of legal action and indeed been invited outside for a fight on more than one occasion.
This I found all the more curious as it was usually some 7 stone Chav doing the shouting, and I'm 6ft4 and 215 lbs.

They do it because they know you're constrained by company rules and can't retaliate, hence they know they can get away with behaviour that would land them in hospital if they tried the same thing with someone in the pub.
I used to secretly pray that I'd encounter these clowns on my walk back to the train station in the evening so that I could see if they were as brave as they made out! :E

As for businessmen leaping out of their seats the second the thrust reversers are shut off - I completely agree!

What can they possibly achieve by crouching in the aisle waiting like a greyhound in a trap for the door to open? :confused:

9 times out of 10 they'll have to wait for the transport to the terminal, wait for their baggage, wait for passport control, etc. What do they do with the few minutes they "save"?? I can never understand it.

I always stay in my seat (window) reading my book and let all the madness and scrambling carry on around me.
Once everyone's off the aircraft I get up, gather my odds and ends together and leave with a polite farewell to the cabin crew.
When I get to baggage reclaim my case is usually sitting there ready to go.
I walk straight through passport control and I'm on my way.

Easy. Why the rush?? :rolleyes:

banana9999

29th Jan 2009, 07:35

Why not sit there for another 20 minutes.?
Why not catch a later plane?
Why not walk there?

Why the need to rush?

Mikehotel152

29th Jan 2009, 07:53

I'm with Ten West on this.

As soon as the seatbelt lights go out there's a mad scramble to unclip seatbelts, stand up, drag bags out of the overhead locker and...and....stand there, half-crouched unless you're in the aisle, for 5 minutes or so listening to the beep-beep of mobile phones being switched on. Utterly pointless.

I tend to sit in my seat making loud, rude comments about the stupidity of those around me. My wife hates it. But honestly, what is the point in rushing to be first off the plane, first through passport control and first to stand at the baggage carousel...waiting for it to start turning! :ugh:

MH152

Ten West

29th Jan 2009, 10:43

Why not sit there for another 20 minutes.?
Why not catch a later plane?
Why not walk there?

Why the need to rush?

Well, 95% of the time when I leave the terminal at the same time as the bloke who rushed through the whole process, what was the point of him building himself up to a heart attack to try and 'save' a few minutes? :confused:

After they've gone through all that they then normally stand around outside looking anxiously at their watches as they wait for their pickup anyway! :rolleyes:

boardingpass

29th Jan 2009, 12:03

I always stay in my seat (window) reading my book and let all the madness and scrambling carry on around me.
Once everyone's off the aircraft I get up, gather my odds and ends together and leave with a polite farewell to the cabin crew.Ah! So YOU'RE the one all the pax standing in the bus in the freezing cold are waiting for! I bet the cabin crew, who are now tired and want to go home, who are watching you calmly and quietly collect your things, give you the biggest fake smiles they can muster when you thank them, right?

Ten West

29th Jan 2009, 12:19

Not at all.

As soon as the last of the pax are off I'm right behind them. Anyway, the crew will be on there for a while yet cashing up the bar, etc. so where's the problem? :confused: They don't just lock up and go home you know.

Since when do buses wait for late pax anyway? ;)

Mikehotel152

29th Jan 2009, 14:21

Exactly!

Boardingpass you are a silly-billy! No-one's suggesting we keep people waiting. In fact, in reality I tend to stand up and disembark once the mad-rush has calmed and I can find my bag in the overhead locker and lower it without braining a passing granny. I don't think I've ever actually been the last pax off the plane.

If the cabin crew ever give me fake smiles, it's probably because I'm smiling insanely and dribbling at the pretty hosties while being wacked on the back of the head by my wife...;)

Ten West

29th Jan 2009, 17:24

Pretty hosties?

Do you fly Air Berlin as well then? I'll say Hello when I see you next. :ok:

BlueTui

30th Jan 2009, 23:02

Anyway, the crew will be on there for a while yet cashing up the bar, etc. so where's the problem? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif They don't just lock up and go home you know.

Vary rarely will cashing up be done on the aircraft after landing, 9/10 it will already be done prior to cabin secure and in the very few airlines, it is done in the crew room- think about it for a second- counting what could be a fair bit of money with upto 25+ cleaners onboard and other staff, including catering guys in the galleys where are the crew supposed to count said money?

Trust me, crew usually walk past the last of their passengers on the airbridge/terminal!! (and beat them out of the airport)

So yes, they do go home(they don't even lock up at my airline)

alwayslookingup

4th Feb 2009, 02:13

Once I was checking in at Heathrow for Dubai. There was me and one other passenger at check in, him in front of me. He was a big fat t****r, he had a humungous cigar clamped in his gob (not lit of course, just for show), was speaking on his mobile all throughout the check in, and, I kid you not, threw his ticket at the check in operator. She politely processed his booking. He grunted or shook his head to each of her questions and when finished snatched his boarding pass from her. I'd watched all of this with increasing anger. I knew she couldn't say anything and could only be professional. As he turned to walk away he made the mistake of making eye contact me. "What a f*****g p***k," I said to him. For a micro second he stood transfixed, weighing up his options (they were zero, but I'd have loved him to try) before flouncing off.

Postscript, as soon as he was gone I got a huge beaming smile from the girl at checkout. Ever professional, of course, she said nothing about the incident. However, having taken my ticket she disappeared for a couple of minutes. Upon her return her smile was still there. "Mr McD***, I'm afraid we have bad news, our world traveller cabin is overbooked, so we're going to have to upgrade you to Club!!" Result. The best flight I've ever had. On board I thought of going to look for the p***k to see if he'd have anything to say, but figured I'd be better off enjoying the flight. I didn't even see him as we disembarked.

So, little darling, in the unlikely event you'll see this or even remember the incident, once again, a thousand thanks. I'd have happily punched his lights out for you!!