Rudder Pedals on Arbus

[Aikon]

What is the correct way to position your foot on the rudder pedal on a airbus aircraft during take off & approach? Should it be heel on the floor & the top part of your foot on the pedal, or should you position your whole foot on the pedal with the top part of your foot resting on the brakes pedal?

On Boeing, it is indicated in the FCTM that heel should be on the floor during take off & approach. However, I can't find it anywhere in airbus manuals. And if you were to look closely at the rudder pedal, it's design for you to rest your whole foot on it. The space in between the pedal & the floor is actually quite high if compare to Boeing aircraft, therefore, unless you have a big foot, it's really not so comfortable to put your heel on the floor.

Would really appreciate if anyone could share his expertise.
Thank you.

[Agni]

At any point when youre controlling the rudder pedals, your entire foot should be resting on the pedal. The upper portion of the pedal is used for apply brakes, and the lower portion for making rudder deflections. So during TO, your heels should be applying pressure on the pedals, so that youre not applying the brakes while trying to accelerate.

[stilton]

Seems an unusual technique, and a very easy way to apply brakes inadvertently.

Heels on the floor when not using brakes.

[Metro man]

And to disconnect the autobrake inadvertantly.

[PBY]

The airbus rudder pedals are designed with a pad to rest your heels. So, when you put your feet on the rudder pedals and slide them down, they will rest on the bottom of the rudder pedal as opposed on the floor. I was told by airbus guys in Toulouse, that the reason for this is, that the Airbus should be flown with the feet resting on the rudder pedals only and not on the floor. But If you end up with some ex Boeing instructors they will be forcing you to fly with the feet on the floor, because that how a Boeing is supposed to be flown (I am not sure 100%, because I have not flown a Boeing, but that what a guy told me). But flying Airbus with the feet up is comfortable and especially during landing with contaminated rwy in a little bit of a crosswind you don't have to slide your feet up to start braking, which could make you loose directional control for a short period of time. Also, on an Airbus, if you make a mistake, and apply full brakes before landing (which I never heard about, that somebody would do it), the antiskid will kick in and teoretically you would not even blow the tires (if they are in a good shape), not that I would like to try it.
But during the take off, I was told to keep my feet on the floor in order not to kick out the max autobrake during rejected take off.
I am not saying, that the above mentioned way is the only way, but that it is the way I was thought and it seems to work for me.

[Dream Land]

No doubt there will be several opinions here, I'm in the camp that has my foot up on the pedals, works great.

[Agni]

"But during the take off, I was told to keep my feet on the floor in order not to kick out the max autobrake during rejected take off."

How do you tackle an engine failure in such a case? You would definitely need a lot of rudder to counter the yaw, but with half your foot resting on the ground, that seems to be quite a cumbersome task. Or do you lift your feet off the ground and then rest them entirely on the pedals? That would seem to be wasting precious milliseconds.

[Dream Land]

heels on the floorGood advice for Boeing pilots, not for the Airbus.

[westinghouse]

simple....

for take off heel on the floor.

for landing feet on pedals.

thats what i do and it has worked so far.

suppose you land with a crosswind and your heels are on the floor.
how do you keep applying rudder and try to brake at the same time?

it should be noted tho the metal strips on the floor infront of the pedals are for you heels to rest on.

[misd-agin]

Feet up on the pedals, foot flexed back away from the top(brakes) portion of the pedals. Rudder inputs with heels, toes rotate forward when brakes are needed.

30 yrs of using that technique, I'm not changing now. Technique is the operative word...

[PantLoad]

Rainboe, please elaborate on your last post. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

PantLoad

[TheKabaka]

I always flew feet on the floor. Until I started flying airbus. They are designed to be flown (taxi/takeoff/landing) feet up. Feels weird at first but works really well. If you have not flown a 'bus it is difficult to understand.

[7 Engine Approach]

Landing in a crosswind, one thing you do not need is rudder applied. On touchdown, the aeroplane swings. For a moment, you can let go- it's swinging itself.
Rainboe that technique works in a 747, because they were designed to allow crab angle at touchdown. Try the same technique in an A380 and you will be xcountry before you've had a chance to blink.
HORSES FOR COURSES. (Try not to get your horses confused)

[dream747]

Just a matter of interest, how much pressure or force do you need exert on the rudder pedals on the Airbuses or Boeings compared to the Cessna-152 and such?

[Aikon]

It's seems that are two different camps here. With one either has never flown an airbus or came from a Boeing background, and one with airbus background.

But I truly believe the rudder pedals on airbus is designed for you to put your whole feet on it. It's just different from Boeing. And I flew both type of aircrafts before.

[Agni]

Thats basically it. Its quite dangerous to apply Boeing techniques on Airbus a/c's in clear deviation from the company SOP and vice versa.

[stilton]

Whether it's Airbus or Boeing we are discussing apart from anything else I fail to see how you can have nearly the control and precision using your heels to operate the rudder rather than your toes.

Seems very clumsy :confused:

[Idle Thrust]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out that the rudder pedals on the 330/340 aircraft are different from those on the 320 series - they are much like most other transport aircraft and allow you to keep your heels on the floor. I never heard a reason for the re-design, just assumed that pilot feedback was not in favour of the rather unique 320 setup.

Having said that I hope my memory serves well, been retired for over seven years now.

FWIW the rudder pedals were one feature of the 320 that I did not appreciate in an otherwise spectacular airplane. At my firm there was no rigid protocol for the placment of your feet - I kept my heels on the floor which made for some interesting footwork when it came time to apply the brakes in a strong crosswind. The 330/340 was much better.

[fantom]

Well, I've only flown Airbuses (320 and 330) for sixteen years. I always put my feet on the pedals, not heels on the floor. Guess what?

Never inadvertently disconnected AB; never inadvertently applied footbrake, never killed anyone during landing and never kacked my pants.

Just lucky, I guess.

[toby320]

ok there is nothing in airbus manuals about this, but this is a good example when you have to use your common sense, during t/o below 72knots on a320 at least we have no auto brake so, if we are taking off and we need to stop for any reason wee will neeed to use manual brakes and in order to apply we need to use the top of the pedals ,so we need to mantain our feet on the pedals durign t/o.

[gblen]

feet off the floor, fully on pedals.try disconnecting autobrake in max crosswind and youre slowing down. still have a big boot of rudder in so can ony disconnect with the non working foot....now youre manual brakes but to brake evenly youve gotta lift that hard working boot up the pedal and onto the brakes-always results in reduced boot pressure and a a swing which is far from comfortable. school of hard knocks. feet off the floor

[Iceman49]

Flying Airbus since 91, A320 and A330...rudder pedals are the same; operated the same way...feet on the pedals, not on the floor. Agree with Fantom.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

I am an Airbus Training Captain and have observed numerous techniques in this department. The first thing to say to ex-Boeing pilots is that you are no longer flying a Boeing! If I ever fly a Boeing the first thing I will do is ditch all my Airbus techniques, then find out how Boeing pilots with considerable experience on type do it - I will then emulate them. I would suggest to you that is pretty good advice for coming onto the Airbus. Therefore the advice of people like Fantom strikes me as probably worth listening to, rather than some 'good ideas' you have from previous types. No one really cares how you did it on a Boeing or on an MD-80 or on a Tristar or anything else. Old dogs can learn new tricks and there are a lot of new tricks to learn!

In terms of what is written down, this is what the good book says in the Airbus FCTM (July 2008) Normal Operations Pre Start P15/16:

"The rudder pedals must then be adjusted to ensure the pilot can achieve both full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on the same side. The armrest and the rudder pedals have position indicators. These positions should be noted and set accordingly for each flight."

I would suggest that to achieve full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on one side requires that your feet are off the floor and on the pedals. It is therefore implicit in that statement that you should operate with your feet off the floor and on the pedals. The vast majority of experienced Airbus pilots follow that technique. My own observations of training and debriefing following unsatisfactory crosswind landings or take-offs have invariably found that those who have difficulty maintaining the cenreline are those who put their heels on the floor. That is not to say that this was the only issue, but I rarely see anyone who has their feet up in the manner so well described by others here having directional control issues. When in Rome do as the Romans do........

[Aikon]

Thank you guys for sharing your experience. This is how we learn new stuff not only from the books but from each other as well.

Thank you.

[scorpilot]

Interesting post...somehow the "bus" always manages to stir things up.....i was in the same quandary while undergoing my LOFT earlier this year where ex - Boeing guys insisted we keep our feet on the floor and trust the Autobrakes ( but what about a RTO below 72kts! ) while the bus drivers told us otherwise...i continue to keep my feet on the pedals, felt a bit strange initially but am used to it now...:O

[Meikleour]

I would be interested to know what situations you can think of that would require maximum and prompt application of full brakes when aborting below 72 kts!! The `swing` should be removed by closing the thrust levers promptly.

[scorpilot]

hi meiklour

just to share my experience of low speed RTO's due eng failure esp in low vis conditions ( in the box ofcourse ), they can be quite vicious as one tends to use the reversers after bringing the thrust levers to idle...and that can lead to a lot of asymmetry..i found my nose wheel almost out of the runway!

we used minimal or no reversers the next time and a little bit of nose wheel steering to stay on the centreline.

cheers

[Meikleour]

Scorpilot,

Thanks for your reply. I have experienced one RTO at 60kts on a A340 TOGA departure and yes, the swing is extreme but soon resolved by closing of the thrust levers. During my 38 years of airline flying I have done probably 20+ RTO`s and apart from the one above, they have all been for other than engine failure. ( a couple for an engine not spooling up properly) Your second sentence sums things up well - respond in a fashion commensurate with the speed achieved. This is why most airline have a Vo policy - ie. a stop speed for minor issues which will never be a stopping problem.

We are digressing from the original thread a bit namely when stopping on a Bus from a significant speed the AUTOBRAKES do an excellent job of delivering balanced braking and there should not be a rush to `stamp on the pedals` and get into manual braking mode especially when the speed is not too critical.

[nurjio]

Good words from NSF, even though he is a TC. :) FWIW, I was taught the following Golden Rules - in this order: (and I'm ex Boeing)

1. Use the tray
2. NO BOEING
3. If in doubt, let go.

Works well for me. Feet up off the floor.

nurj :}

[safetypee]

The presentation “Lessons from Incidents & Accidents” (www.halldale.com/Assets/Files/EATS%202008/Proceedings/Richards.ppt) gives instances of the problem of inadvertent brake application during takeoff.
Although the concluding recommendation is for ‘feet down’ for takeoff, this might be better worded as heels on the floor, but with feet ready to input rudder or brakes as required.
An issue often overlooked when changing SOPs is that the design and certification requirements may have made assumptions about foot positioning to control the swing from an engine failure, or applying brakes during an RTO. A change of SOP could invalidate these assumptions and thus result in reduced performance.